I think Parsons will not be around after this contract .... - Page 4 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

AO41 · 01-28-2016, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

That's an odd conclusion to come to about a guy who has never averaged over 16.4 PPG, and is currently putting up 12.8 PPG.

I mean, I get your point about Parsons, but trying to juxtapose his scoring ability with Wes isn't working for this argument... Matthews has been somewhat ineffective with or without the ball in his hands.

I am imagining Matthews in a Jet role with a similarly constructed team. I think if you put Matthews on a team that Ha Kidd and Dirk a few years ago, he could have easily averaged 18 ppg.

BUT my mistake...I put 18ppg and by that I meant numbers similar to Jet or Ellis.

We don't have those guys or guys comparable to them at this time.

AO41 · 01-28-2016, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10AMGareDuNord

Yeah, there is literally *zero* chance Matthews averages 18 PPG for the rest of career. (Unless he scores 18 points in a season opener and has a season-ending injury.)

As you said, healthy, Prime Matthews never did that. This one is most likely a 10-15 PPG scorer for the rest of his career. He just has no lift and that doesn't come back. It ruined his very solid post-up game. And he could never drive. Even with the increased cap, he'd have to round back into a 40%+ 3-point shooter to remotely justify that contract...not sure if that will happen.

It would happen if we put the right pieces around him because he is not a star player ...which is what he is trying to be now.

BUT with Parsons you cant even put players around him that result in winning basketball. Because he need the ball all the time but is not a LeBron or KD talent to make everyone much better and so it does not result in the Ws even when he posts solid numbers.

AO41 · 01-28-2016, 09:29 PM

Personally...I think a SF like Green (Memphis) would have been an awesome fit with this team or a guy like Aminu. Not saying they are more talented...just that their games would fit better and would contribute more towards making this a better team.

Underdog · 01-28-2016, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10AMGareDuNord

Yeah, there is literally *zero* chance Matthews averages 18 PPG for the rest of career. (Unless he scores 18 points in a season opener and has a season-ending injury.)

As you said, healthy, Prime Matthews never did that. This one is most likely a 10-15 PPG scorer for the rest of his career. He just has no lift and that doesn't come back. It ruined his very solid post-up game. And he could never drive. Even with the increased cap, he'd have to round back into a 40%+ 3-point shooter to remotely justify that contract...not sure if that will happen.

I'm holding out hope that he's not 100% healthy, but I do think he'd still be a tradable asset if he could get his shot back up to 37% and continue to contribute decent defense.

Bryan_Wilson · 01-28-2016, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AO41

Personally...I think a SF like Green (Memphis) would have been an awesome fit with this team or a guy like Aminu. Not saying they are more talented...just that their games would fit better and would contribute more towards making this a better team.

I personally disagree on the Green idea. He likes the ball in his hands just as much as Parsons only he is always looking to score and he does it much less efficiently. And this year was so bad he was benched. He is a worse defender than Parsons and their rebounding is similar. Parsons is a better catch and shoot player also.

I like Aminu but not as a starter on this team. I liked him for what he was last season. He provides minimal on the offensive end. We alrdy have Matthews not providing much offensively and adding Aminu and taking out Parsons is not going to help Wes score more. It would make it harder, and if you think he is pressing to live up to his contract now, imagine taking off an offensive wpn like parsons substituting a 10point guy in aminu. If anything Wes might be pressing more. Also Last year we used Aminu half at the 3 and half at the 4, if you take Parsons off this team for Aminu it would be Dwill/Felton/Wes/Aminu/Center while Dirk is off the floor for defense/rebounding and then I think Aminu would sub out for Dirk to maintain the 2 pg lineup that RC is in love with(in his defense it's one of the top clutch lineups in the NBA) and it would be Dwill/Felton/Wes/Dirk/C. I still think Aminu's best role was what RC used him as. A Versatile defender and high energy "super sub" for this small ball era. I personally don't think he's a great starter, especially alongside Iron Man. They could dig in on Dirk in the post and cheat over toward wes on the perimeter and leave Aminu open, as improved as he is it's still not even league average.

DevinHarriswillstart · 01-29-2016, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AO41

It would happen if we put the right pieces around him because he is not a star player ...which is what he is trying to be now.

BUT with Parsons you cant even put players around him that result in winning basketball. Because he need the ball all the time but is not a LeBron or KD talent to make everyone much better and so it does not result in the Ws even when he posts solid numbers.

With all due respect, this is totally asinine. Some people like to create a constant conundrum with regards to Parsons. So he purposefully tries to get his teammates involved while getting healthy and now it's wrong that he has become more selfish to give this team the second star, or perhaps the main star it desperately needs. And I guarantee you he'd still pass the ball to Dirk for the final shot.

The players around him need only to blame themselves for their poor play. I never made an excuse for Parson when he played poorly, and I sure as heck won't make them for Matthews or Williams or whoever is having a bad game.

10AMGareDuNord · 01-29-2016, 02:16 AM

Jeff Green is garbage. Not a playmaker. Lazy, uninspired player who will look amazing every 10th game then revert to a lazy bum.

Underdog · 02-07-2016, 01:29 PM

@MFollowill: Chandler Parsons moved into top 20 in league in 3pt% last night... Shooting career best 40.1% (53% over last 13 games)

EricaLubarsky · 02-07-2016, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

@MFollowill: Chandler Parsons moved into top 20 in league in 3pt% last night... Shooting career best 40.1% (53% over last 13 games)

I blame Parsons

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-07-2016, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I blame Parsons

The advanced stats are whack when it comes to Parsons. 10-15 shooting with 8 rebounds 4 assists, 5-8 on threes and yet a +2? His game and in game plus/minus aren't getting along.

EricaLubarsky · 02-07-2016, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

The advanced stats are whack when it comes to Parsons. 10-15 shooting with 8 rebounds 4 assists, 5-8 on threes and yet a +2? His game and in game plus/minus aren't getting along.

1) Those aren't advanced stats you are using

2) Poor defense can make big stats useless. Dirk could score 75 with 20 rebounds and 15 assists, but if we are a defensive, sieve of course the +/- wouldn't be stellar

3) We can always trade for Rondo, the king of stat padding

Underdog · 02-22-2016, 12:22 PM

@bobbykaralla: Chandler Parsons' last 15 games:

20.2 pts
5.9 reb
2.4 ast
53.2/51.8/78.6%
66.6 TS%
63.8 eFG%
122 OffRtg
22.8 usage

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-22-2016, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

@bobbykaralla: Chandler Parsons' last 15 games:

20.2 pts
5.9 reb
2.4 ast
53.2/51.8/78.6%
66.6 TS%
63.8 eFG%
122 OffRtg
22.8 usage

Been the best player on the team in that span. Nice to see and the best thing the Mavs have going for them right now.

sike · 02-22-2016, 01:34 PM

Parsons has been so good lately. Really fun to watch him w the ball in his hands.

It is almost certainly NOT sustainable, but if he can stabilize and maintain a high level, I say pay that man his money when he opts out.

mac222b · 02-22-2016, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

Parsons has been so good lately. Really fun to watch him w the ball in his hands.

It is almost certainly NOT sustainable, but if he can stabilize and maintain a high level, I say pay that man his money when he opts out.

Gonna be another crazy summer. Dirk and Parsons can potentially opt out. D-Will almost certainly will. Zaza or some other center gonna get paid. Be interesting to see if they bring this group back. Or throw money at younger guys and start to build for post Dirk. Or some combination thereof.

DGM · 02-22-2016, 03:01 PM

Why would CP stay in Dallas and put up with RC's crap? I expect to see him leave. Lots of teams will have money this summer. He's gone.

Underdog · 02-22-2016, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGM

Why would CP stay in Dallas and put up with RC's crap? I expect to see him leave. Lots of teams will have money this summer. He's gone.

WTF are you talking about? Parsons is playing the best basketball of his career right now because Rick Carlisle made him the focus of our offense... Who else is going to offer him that??

DGM · 02-22-2016, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

WTF are you talking about? Parsons is playing the best basketball of his career right now because Rick Carlisle made him the focus of our offense... Who else is going to offer him that??

Watch

Underdog · 02-22-2016, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGM

Watch

So you have absolutely nothing to back up your claim other than a "gut feeling" based on your pet-hatred for Rick Carlisle? Like, Rick is such a bad coach and terrible person that he's going to drive Parsons away? And of course your opinion of Carlisle's coaching ability stems 100% from him not giving more minutes to the worst players on this team...

Have you ever considered that maybe your gut has shit for brains?

Quote:

Chandler Parsons and Mavericks Coach Rick Carlisle Are Basically Besties

Carlisle and Parsons, who can look out the windows of their posh apartments in Uptown Dallas high-rises and see each other’s balconies, spend an inordinate amount of time together. Most of it is basketball-based, as Parsons often shoots and watches film with Carlisle in one-on-one sessions. But they also socialize some, having attended concerts together and shared many meals, occasionally with Carlisle’s wife and daughter and Parsons’ parents and/or longtime best friend/personal assistant, Pausha Haghighi.

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-22-2016, 03:53 PM

Rick is definitely tough on Parsons by design. Thing is that Rick thinks he can be a superstar in a way that most fans probably don't.

Underdog · 02-22-2016, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Rick is definitely tough on Parsons by design. Thing is that Rick thinks he can be a superstar in a way that most fans probably don't.

Yeah, a coach who is pushing him to become an All-Star and an owner who is already paying him like an All-Star -- where is Parsons going to find a better deal than that?

The only worry he has in Dallas is living up to expectations.

sefant77 · 02-23-2016, 10:00 PM

RC is tough on Parsons, but they also like to troll each other a little bit. Also via media. Same with pretty much the entire team. Parsons with Cuban (fashion), Dirk and Zaza...well Dirk pretty much trolls everyone...

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-24-2016, 01:51 AM

Parsons also basically convinced Jordan to come here before baby huey changed his mind. Without him, we would have had no shot at all at someone like that. That kind of sway is worth its weight in gold. Fans may be divided on him, but players seem to really respond to him on a personal level.

DGM · 02-24-2016, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

So you have absolutely nothing to back up your claim other than a "gut feeling" based on your pet-hatred for Rick Carlisle? Like, Rick is such a bad coach and terrible person that he's going to drive Parsons away? And of course your opinion of Carlisle's coaching ability stems 100% from him not giving more minutes to the worst players on this team...

Have you ever considered that maybe your gut has shit for brains?

Send the link. Want to read it myself. You may very well be full of it.

Underdog · 02-24-2016, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGM

Send the link. Want to read it myself. You may very well be full of it.

What, you think I'd just make this stuff up to win an internet debate? The link was in the quote, but here it is again for those with poor reading comprehension: http://friendlybounce.com/2016/02/05...cally-besties/

sike · 02-24-2016, 06:10 PM

UD ain't making stuff up to score points.

DGM · 02-24-2016, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

UD ain't making stuff up to score points.

But he doesn't have to behave badly.

Underdog · 02-24-2016, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGM

But he doesn't have to behave badly.

Behave badly? How, by posting facts? Sorry about that, I'll try harder to indulge in your delusions the next time I post...

DGM · 02-24-2016, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Behave badly? How, by posting facts? Sorry about that, I'll try harder to indulge in your delusions the next time I post...

Going out of your way to insult is bad behavior.

Underdog · 02-24-2016, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGM

Going out of your way to insult is bad behavior.

You mean like when you accused me of lying, even though the link was right in front of your eyes?

Or are you mad at me for pointing out that your gut has shit for brains? Because, well, the human gut only produces one thing: shit... It's biology.

GermanStandard · 02-25-2016, 05:21 AM

Parsons will take his Player Option and we are stuck with him.

No way in this world is he gonna opt out. He wont get 16M$ per year elsewhere after this season.

spreedom · 02-25-2016, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GermanStandard

Parsons will take his Player Option and we are stuck with him.

No way in this world is he gonna opt out. He wont get 16M$ per year elsewhere after this season.

The way he's been playing the last 15 games? Even if/when he comes back down to earth, he's absolutely going to opt out and he'll get a pretty healthy raise. The number I've heard thrown around the most is 4yrs/$80M. With the cap jumping this summer, I have a hard time believing he's get less than that when about twenty teams are going to be in position to offer at least one max contract. TBH I think we're lucky if we get him that cheap. And if we somehow lose out on him... I pray it's because we had to choose between him and an even better free agent.

sefant77 · 02-25-2016, 09:36 AM

2017 is the even bigger crazy payday around the league. Cap jumping to 108m.

parsons takes his Player Option and then tries to get the 100+m deal in 2017

EricaLubarsky · 02-25-2016, 09:59 AM

It's funny how the thread has shifted from "he's awful and we're awful" to "he's too good for us and will run away to another team"

BPo001 · 02-25-2016, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GermanStandard

Parsons will take his Player Option and we are stuck with him.

No way in this world is he gonna opt out. He wont get 16M$ per year elsewhere after this season.

Parsons will get the max. If its not from us someone will.

rimrocker · 02-25-2016, 11:09 AM

Curious what market value will be for Parsons, DWill, Zaza, Dirk, Felton and Powell going into the off-season.

Dwight Howard should be our off-season target after resigning Parsons because Parsons might actually be able to recruit him and DH would be a great fit in Rick's system.
If we can afford 2 Max deals then I'm fine with going into next season with Parsons/Howard/Dirk/Matthews and hopefully DWill as our starting core with Parsons being the catalyst.

DGM · 02-25-2016, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

You mean like when you accused me of lying, even though the link was right in front of your eyes?

Or are you mad at me for pointing out that your gut has shit for brains? Because, well, the human gut only produces one thing: shit... It's biology.

Oops my mistake. I forgot that the pig likes the mud. No more communication from me in the mud. Out.

Underdog · 02-25-2016, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rimrocker

Curious what market value will be for Parsons, DWill, Zaza, Dirk, Felton and Powell going into the off-season.

I doubt Dirk opts out of his final year unless he's looking to extend... Same with Parsons, from everything that he's indicated (and I don't get the sense that anyone is going to be throwing a max contract at him, but there's still enough season left for Chandler to prove me wrong...)

Powell is a RFA and hasn't exactly been lighting it up lately, so I doubt teams are going to be trying to pry him away from us... The bigger question is how much do we value him?

Felton is probably a goner unless we somehow unload Harris or Barea... We just have too many mediocre tweener-guards on this roster right now.

Deron will absolutely opt out of his $5.6m player option, but I'm not sure what the market is going to be for him... I mean, if a headcase like Rondo can earn $9.5m this season, then I can see D-Will going in the $10-15m range with the cap spike. I'd take him for 10, but 15 is probably too much for an aging PG with declining skills (although this may be one position that we have to overpay for this summer, given the market -- Mike Conley is literally the only non-restricted PG that I like better than Williams).

Zaza is the big question mark... He barely missed out on being an All-Star, but his success is very much the product of Carlisle's system... Although a lot of GMs around the league don't seem to understand how that works -- they're just going to see a double-double big man and probably end up overpaying for him... And if/when he does get overpaid this summer, I say let someone else do it. I'd love to have him as a backup to someone like Dwight Howard, but we definitely shouldn't overpay to keep him as our starting center.

Underdog · 02-25-2016, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

It's funny how the thread has shifted from "he's awful and we're awful" to "he's too good for us and will run away to another team"

Apparently the knee jerks both ways...

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-25-2016, 12:44 PM

4/80 is about right. No way he takes less than Wes Matthews so 18 mil a year is the starting point.