Diop Traded to Charlotte

[twistaeffect2004]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

I've been thinking about it over the past week or so. If we're pushing to trade either Josh or Kidd (I'm not on board with trading Kidd), I'm putting my targets on someone like Kaman first. You clearly have your ideas set on what you need: you need a low-post threat or a shooter. Low post guys (effective ones) are harder to find, so if you can get it...you go for it. Kidd would find Kaman and maybe bring more pick and roll offense with a big that actually ends in the low post.

I'm wondering if there is anyway possible we can get David Lee from New York. It sounds like the Knicks have been shopping him a little bit. I'm a huge fan of his.

Names that I think could be had by this deadline who I think the Mavs will take a look at are:

David Lee
Corey Maggette
Jermaine Oneal
Shawn Marion
Chris Kaman
Marcus Camby
Stephen Jackson
Michael Redd
Mike Miller
Caron Butler??
Rashad McCants
Reymond Felton


I'mnot saying all those guys will be traded, but I do think all of them will be out there in terms of rumors and what not. I think the Mavs have the pieces to get some of these guys actually. Having huge expirings are big.

[seelenjaeger]

Don´t under-estimate the contract / value of Damp.

He´s a very moveable piece by now, too, WAY more interesting for teams than Diop.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by twistaeffect2004

Names that I think could be had by this deadline who I think the Mavs will take a look at are:

David Lee
Jermaine Oneal
Shawn Marion
Chris Kaman
Stephen Jackson
Michael Redd
Mike Miller
Reymond Felton

That would be my list...some of them are questionable, and some are probably unavailable.

I still really like Kaman off that list.

[BaylorTMW]

I like this trade. Diop was not working out here, and I think this is a maximum return for him. We get a young center to replace his 10 minutes a game or so, and another shooter on the wings.

I would not be surprised if one of our wings (in addition to Stack) is on their way out as well...

[EricaLubarsky]

Diop 5 years, 32.4million

Hollins is an expiring 900k
Carroll is 5 years, 20.8 million

we save some money but we take back Carroll who has only a slightly better contract. 5 years for a guy that is shooting 40.6%, 26.7% and 79%, though?!? Wow. People said they wanted a SG with size but Carroll may be more porous than Terry and he provides very little on the other side.

Hollins is a lifelong underperformer (at least in basketball-- he was good at the high jump.) who failed to make a splash in college and is thusfar failing in the NBA. After this year he may very well never see an NBA lockerroom.

We essentially save about 11 million and get no talent back. Since Diop wasn't playing/contributing its not a huge deal but it does make me wonder if we are transitioning into a rebuilding mode. I'm not adverse to it-- we either need to position ourselves to rebuild or we need to be aggressive about getting better.

Right now we are just sitting on a sub-par 9th seed team with a huge payroll.

[bobatundi]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Right now we are just sitting on a sub-par 9th seed team with a huge payroll.

Yeah, this certainly isn't the trade that changes that...makes it a slightly less huge payroll over the next few years, but doesn't impact our mediocrity much.

[seelenjaeger]

Just curious - question for our CBA guys:

Can you pay a player more in a buyout than his original deal? Let´s say we agree to buyout Carrol at some point, and pay him the rest of his guaranteed contract plus something (2 mill or such), if he agrees to void the contract (and not exercise his option), when will he be off the books cap-wise? in the year of his original expiration or when the player option expires?

On his contract: it gets better by the year, so it´s at least not the complete horrorshake thingy.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by bobatundi

Yeah, this certainly isn't the trade that changes that...makes it a slightly less huge payroll over the next few years, but doesn't impact our mediocrity much.

Yeah, I think the 2 million or so we could be saving for 2010 might make a difference, but it's not going to do a lot...every little bit can help. If we keep making some moves here and there that lead towards 2010, then every deal added up can make a huge difference.

They're taking a shot with Carroll and Hollins, maybe he pans out as a nice bench option. Hollins is a very minimal risk and he can't be any worse than Diop, if so...it's at a much cheaper rate. Maybe Carroll can do something, and if he does, he becomes more of a steal as years go by, who knows.

I usually don't have the strongest faith in the FO (since the summer and etc), but I think they're going to make one big move before the deadline.

[MaVs 41 BaLler]

WHO?

Is he suppose to be a skinny Bass?

[kappasigma]

carroll will probably start a few games because Dallas will start ANY guard in hopes of finding a consistant player to play that roll. Carroll will probably start 4-5 games, then start coming off the bench for some minutes, then he will rack up a bunch of DNP-CD by the end of the season or perhaps some garbage time. hate to say this, but we're the new version of the the kings. the other guy will play about 3-6 minutes a game, probably about 14 games the rest of the season.

[erdubya]

Originally Posted by Rick41

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsdYoap5FYM


Looks pretty decent, he has his moments.

Before the highlight reel i was liking the trade... after, I'm LOVIN it!

[fluid.forty.one]

Originally Posted by MavsFanFinley

I'll be sick if starts playing well again.

Of course he will. He just left the Mavericks. That's what they all do.

[fluid.forty.one]

Originally Posted by erdubya

Before the highlight reel i was liking the trade... after, I'm LOVIN it!

They showed the first two highlights at least twice. lol, lack of options?

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Diop 5 years, 32.4million

Hollins is an expiring 900k
Carroll is 5 years, 20.8 million

we save some money but we take back Carroll who has only a slightly better contract. 5 years for a guy that is shooting 40.6%, 26.7% and 79%, though?!? Wow. People said they wanted a SG with size but Carroll may be more porous than Terry and he provides very little on the other side.

Hollins is a lifelong underperformer (at least in basketball-- he was good at the high jump.) who failed to make a splash in college and is thusfar failing in the NBA. After this year he may very well never see an NBA lockerroom.

We essentially save about 11 million and get no talent back. Since Diop wasn't playing/contributing its not a huge deal but it does make me wonder if we are transitioning into a rebuilding mode. I'm not adverse to it-- we either need to position ourselves to rebuild or we need to be aggressive about getting better.

Right now we are just sitting on a sub-par 9th seed team with a huge payroll.

Diop has been a negative on the floor and Carroll's contract is structured in such a way that he will be easily tradeable as part of a bigger package towards the end of his contract.

Diop, on the other hand, would only have gotten more and more untradeable as his contract went on.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Dirkgreatness

I was expecting Felton, so I'm kind of the disappointed. Its an ok trade though.

Were you...really? With this FO...

[rabbitproof]

Originally Posted by seelenjaeger

Sad to see that the Mavs have built a history of making "good deals" when good deal qualifies getting rid of a horrible contract they signed in off season.

It´s like hitting a wall with the car you just bought, then convince the owner of the wall to buy your car for the initial prize while you keep the wall ...

Would have preferred Morrison over Carrol though.

This is the greatest analogy in the history of trade analogies on d-m.com.

Period.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Actually EJ for Shawne Williams was the first post-Avery trade.

You are correct...forgot about ej...the ultimate age-dump.

[dalmations202]

This trade doesn't thrill me at all.

Really it does nothing for the team, except change names on the back of a jersey or two.

Dallas is still mediocre.

[Dirkadirkastan]

I miss Diop. You know, the one that left over two years ago?

[grndmstr_c]

A small-sample, probably somewhat contaminated statistical fact that nonetheless tells the story of how little Diop had been providing the Mavericks this year.

- With Gana on the court Dallas was giving up 100 points per 48 minutes. That's slightly more than the 99 points per 48 minutes the Mavs had been giving up with Dirk playing center, and the 99.4 points per 48 minutes they'd been giving up with Bass playing center. Those are flat-out unacceptable numbers for a defensive specialist.

The bottom line on this trade is that the Mavs gave up absolutely nothing of value, saved themselves a bit of money over the next few years, and if things work out, may have at least landed themselves a designated shooter off the bench and a 10 mpg backup center with some athleticism (something they've not had in a long time). If you're in any way upset with this trade, you're just looking for something to be pissed off about.

At the same time, if you're excited about it, you're delusional and should probably check to make sure you're not running a high fever.

[rabbitproof]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

A small-sample, probably somewhat contaminated statistical fact that nonetheless tells the story of how little Diop had been providing the Mavericks this year.

- With Gana on the court Dallas was giving up 100 points per 48 minutes. That's slightly more than the 99 points per 48 minutes the Mavs had been giving up with Dirk playing center, and the 99.4 points per 48 minutes they'd been giving up with Bass playing center. Those are flat-out unacceptable numbers for a defensive specialist.

The bottom line on this trade is that the Mavs gave up absolutely nothing of value, saved themselves a bit of money over the next few years, and if things work out, may have at least landed themselves a designated shooter off the bench and a 10 mpg backup center with some athleticism (something they've not had in a long time). If you're in any way upset with this trade, you're just looking for something to be pissed off about.

At the same time, if you're excited about it, you're delusional and should probably check to make sure you're not running a high fever.

I agree for the most part. You can't argue with the realities of the trade (contract #s, on court-production, what was exchanged). But perceptions count, too. If Diop (and Stack) could've fetched us Felton/May/Mohammad, is Diop for Hollins/Carroll still a good deal?

Your product may have got you X dollars today, which is above what the market says, but if 1.5X was on the table last week and didn't go through for whatever reason, it's a little bittersweet to finish with the X.

Oh well.

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

Your product may have got you X dollars today, which is above what the market says, but if 1.5X was on the table last week and didn't go through for whatever reason, it's a little bittersweet to finish with the X.

Two things: 1) the thing that brought X dollars in today is not the same thing that was rumored to be on the verge of bringing in more than X last week, because Dallas still has Stack's contract to use in another trade, and 2) it's not necessarily the case that the Mavs are finished with the X; in fact, the impression one gets from the media members who are presumably most tuned in to what's going on in the Mavs front office is precisely the opposite, and I'd say the odds are pretty good that another, more impactful (whether for good or ill) trade is likely to follow.

Perhaps some people felt confident that Felton was going to become a solid starting point for the Mavs. If you fall in that camp, then your disappointment that Dallas' didn't (hasn't yet) acquired him is reasonable.

For my part, while it would have been my hope had that trade gone through that Felton would've lived up to that standard and made Kidd and that giant expiring contract of his expendable, I'm far from certain that would've been the case, so it's hard for me to get too down about not having him here. More importantly, though, if Stack's contract paired with the high-dollar lump that Diop turned out to be was in the neighborhood of enough to acquire Felton, then surely Stack's contract (which is only going to increase in trade value leading up to the offseason) paired with something else more palatable and attractive should be able to fetch the Mavs something better than Felton.

[alby]

Thumbs up on this move.

[Danny Boi]

Why the freak does it seem that nobody will trade with the mavericks unless the deal goes extremely in their favor. First giving up harris for kidd and i won't even get into just "throwing in" those two first round picks that it's starting to look more likely that they could have used......can u say lottery. I guess i shoulda known better than to think the mavericks could actually get felton :-(

[SeriousSummer]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

A small-sample, probably somewhat contaminated statistical fact that nonetheless tells the story of how little Diop had been providing the Mavericks this year.

- With Gana on the court Dallas was giving up 100 points per 48 minutes. That's slightly more than the 99 points per 48 minutes the Mavs had been giving up with Dirk playing center, and the 99.4 points per 48 minutes they'd been giving up with Bass playing center. Those are flat-out unacceptable numbers for a defensive specialist.

The bottom line on this trade is that the Mavs gave up absolutely nothing of value, saved themselves a bit of money over the next few years, and if things work out, may have at least landed themselves a designated shooter off the bench and a 10 mpg backup center with some athleticism (something they've not had in a long time). If you're in any way upset with this trade, you're just looking for something to be pissed off about.

At the same time, if you're excited about it, you're delusional and should probably check to make sure you're not running a high fever.

106 degrees. I should be dead.

[alby]

Originally Posted by Danny Boi

Why the freak does it seem that nobody will trade with the mavericks unless the deal goes extremely in their favor. First giving up harris for kidd and i won't even get into just "throwing in" those two first round picks that it's starting to look more likely that they could have used......can u say lottery. I guess i shoulda known better than to think the mavericks could actually get felton :-(

just have faith Danny Boi. just have faith.

[kg_veteran]

I really like this trade.

[Murphy3]

I like adding a shooter. It's amazing that team can be put together with so few people capable of hitting shots as is the case with this current Mavs group.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

I like adding a shooter. It's amazing that team can be put together with so few people capable of hitting shots as is the case with this current Mavs group.

Absolute truth.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Two things: 1) the thing that brought X dollars in today is not the same thing that was rumored to be on the verge of bringing in more than X last week, because Dallas still has Stack's contract to use in another trade, and 2) it's not necessarily the case that the Mavs are finished with the X; in fact, the impression one gets from the media members who are presumably most tuned in to what's going on in the Mavs front office is precisely the opposite, and I'd say the odds are pretty good that another, more impactful (whether for good or ill) trade is likely to follow.

Perhaps some people felt confident that Felton was going to become a solid starting point for the Mavs. If you fall in that camp, then your disappointment that Dallas' didn't (hasn't yet) acquired him is reasonable.

For my part, while it would have been my hope had that trade gone through that Felton would've lived up to that standard and made Kidd and that giant expiring contract of his expendable, I'm far from certain that would've been the case, so it's hard for me to get too down about not having him here. More importantly, though, if Stack's contract paired with the high-dollar lump that Diop turned out to be was in the neighborhood of enough to acquire Felton, then surely Stack's contract (which is only going to increase in trade value leading up to the offseason) paired with something else more palatable and attractive should be able to fetch the Mavs something better than Felton.

"I can't quit you!"

Or...I can't rep you enough!

[xavier]

Is this the best we can do?
This trade sucks! It does nothing to help us.
Sure diop's contract is gone but please tell me there is more to look forward to in the way of trades.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by xavier

Sure diop's contract is gone but please tell me there is more to look forward to in the way of trades.

hmmm...have you read this thread?

Honestly, I wanna see Kaman here! Simple 1 for 1 works with Josh, hell...the trade machine says Ricky Davis and Kaman for Josh (Williams to keep it at 15) works as well. The trade machine isn't the logic and works best for both rosters machine, but it's a guide. The idea of Josh for Kaman is there and you can even fill out more with it.

Solid big men are hard to find...go for it!
http://www.nba.com/hotspots/
Go there and look at Kaman's numbers, he is a legit option in the low post.

[ddh33]

I'm more curious to hear what else Stein said about the Mavs?

[Caseman]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

hmmm...have you read this thread?

Honestly, I wanna see Kaman here! Simple 1 for 1 works with Josh, hell...the trade machine says Ricky Davis and Kaman for Josh (Williams to keep it at 15) works as well. The trade machine isn't the logic and works best for both rosters machine, but it's a guide. The idea of Josh for Kaman is there and you can even fill out more with it.

Solid big men are hard to find...go for it!
http://www.nba.com/hotspots/
Go there and look at Kaman's numbers, he is a legit option in the low post.

And why would the Clippers give up Kaman for a Howard...?

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

I agree for the most part. You can't argue with the realities of the trade (contract #s, on court-production, what was exchanged). But perceptions count, too. If Diop (and Stack) could've fetched us Felton/May/Mohammad, is Diop for Hollins/Carroll still a good deal?

Your product may have got you X dollars today, which is above what the market says, but if 1.5X was on the table last week and didn't go through for whatever reason, it's a little bittersweet to finish with the X.

Oh well.

Huh?? If Diop and stack could have fetched us felton/may/mohammad then it would have.

[dirno2000]

According to Stein we didn't have the ammo to get Felton in a straight up trade so we were trying to bring in OK City. They could have provided Larry Brown with a defensive minded back up PG in Watson.

Problem was, when the Thunder found out that Felton was in play they wanted him for themselves and didn't have much interest in helping him get to Dallas.

[Flacolaco]

Ouch....Did you see this?

http://mavsblog.dallasnews.com/archi...ar-me-now.html

The Mavericks tried to call DeSagana Diop to tell him he had been traded.

The problem: his cell phone didn't work. Donnie Nelson tracked him down to a Verizon store in Irving late Friday afternoon and asked him to step outside to deliver the news.

The Mavericks backup center had been traded to Charlotte for three-point specialist Matt Carroll and backup center Ryan Hollins.

"We are huge DeSagana fans,'' said Nelson, the team's president of basketball operations. "He's one of my favorite people that I've ever had the chance to work with. This is tough.

"But you can never have enough shooters. Matt, over the course of his career, is one of the top three-point shooters in the league. Hollins, I think, is a very underrated, versatile, athletic 5-4 (center-forward) that can give us a different kind of look.''

Carroll and Hollins should arrive in Dallas Saturday but are not expected to play against Utah. The plan is for them to take their physicals, practice Sunday and Monday then accompany the team to Philadelphia for the start of its four-game Eastern Conference road trip.

[MaVs 41 BaLler]

Damn I bet Diop was clueless and shocked.

[foglemann]

I'll miss diop, but the FO f***ed up when they re-committed to a player they already knew the limitations on. Carroll could help out if we can find a buyer for terry.

This better be the first dynomite to blow on this controlled demolition.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

Ouch....Did you see this?

http://mavsblog.dallasnews.com/archi...ar-me-now.html

I was just about to post this...man, talk about AWKWARD. But hey, props to Donnie for being a man and being honest.

Indirectly, if you wanna look outside the box, we DID spend our MLE on a big man and SG....