Would you try to trade a Mav big man? - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Axilla · 01-07-2011, 12:02 PM

do we need all our bigs in order to compete in the West?

this leads to another question: Do the Mavs need to fill Caron's void ASAP?

Underdog · 01-07-2011, 12:15 PM

Obviously we're not trading Chandler - he's too important to what this team is doing right now.

Haywood seems a bit expendable at the moment, but what happens if Ty goes down with an injury? I love Mahinmi, but he certainly isn't a guy you want starting for your team, especially not in the playoffs...

So it really boils down to Ian & Lex, and I think they'd both make excellent trade bait for the right team. Personally, I like Ian better, but I'd include either one of them if the right deal came along...

I don't think Caron's void needs to be filled ASAP, but I do think his contract should be traded before the deadline since he isn't expected to suit-up again this season.

Something like Butler/Ajinca wouldn't be a bad package to start shopping around, depending on your targets...

j0Shi · 01-07-2011, 12:23 PM

You can't pull the trigger right now. We really look like a team that desperately needs some sort of trade to be competitive again and that will automatically put you on the flip side of any trade. You better hope this team will show the market that it can be really good even without Caron.

Underdog · 01-07-2011, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j0Shi

You can't pull the trigger right now. We really look like a team that desperately needs some sort of trade to be competitive again and that will automatically put you on the flip side of any trade. You better hope this team will show the market that it can be really good even without Caron.

We don't look desperate to make a trade so much as we look desperate for Dirk to come back.

I think Butler's production can be replaced internally without a trade, but his expiring contract is burning a hole in our pocket so we might as well cash it in...

Axilla · 01-07-2011, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j0Shi

You can't pull the trigger right now. We really look like a team that desperately needs some sort of trade to be competitive again and that will automatically put you on the flip side of any trade. You better hope this team will show the market that it can be really good even without Caron.

i think there is some truth to this.
i don't know if we need to replace Caron...AT ALL.
but we know the window is closing for this team--and that adds the element of urgency, of course.

so for the right guy (*i don't know who that is*) i would pull triggers. but i really don't think the mavs are in desperation mode. Hopefully we wait for the optimal solution.

PaRobful · 01-07-2011, 12:52 PM

I think there will be no trade. We need Chandler and you dont get a good Player for haywood or something else. So we have to wait until Dirk comes Back.

Rhylan · 01-07-2011, 12:55 PM

I'd include Ajinca without really thinking twice.. even though he looks like a really unique and intriguing project, his size and skill set don't really get you much on a team where Dirk is playing 30+ minutes @ PF for the next 3-4 years.

Mahinmi, for me, is tougher to move. He is head & shoulders the best project-big-man the Mavs have had on a roster in the Cuban era. I'd begrudgingly move him for the right deal, assuming there's a veteran big coming back in trade or available as an FA to be that 3rd guy in emergency situations, but it would hurt me. I'd like to hang onto Ian for awhile longer and see how he grows up. He can definitely play a little.

Kidd Karma · 01-07-2011, 01:14 PM

We should wait to see what we look like with Dirk, maybe 4-5 games after Dirk is back we get a good sense as to our needs, we have the chips to make a major trade or a minor trade. It's nice to actually have a few trade chips to work with.

I think Haywood just being there, is huge, plus Chandler has a history, if the ring is the thing, you can't move Haywood, without knowing Ian can handle at least 20 a night. Right now that's iffy at best.

Nevertheless moving on Caron is too fast at this point, you don't want to mortgage anything yet. See how we operate with Dirk in there.

Rhylan · 01-07-2011, 02:12 PM

To me it's not even a question of moving Haywood.. the combination of need plus contract means he's not gonna move. It's all about what you are willing to do with 3rd string bigs.

Lots of angles since Ajinca and Mahinmi are both young and cheap, not identical in terms of skill set, and they've both showed something this year. Both would be desirable pieces for other teams to inquire about.

Kidd Karma · 01-07-2011, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhylan

To me it's not even a question of moving Haywood.. the combination of need plus contract means he's not gonna move. It's all about what you are willing to do with 3rd string bigs.

Lots of angles since Ajinca and Mahinmi are both young and cheap, not identical in terms of skill set, and they've both showed something this year. Both would be desirable pieces for other teams to inquire about.

Hey it's a young chip, tradeable chip that we have. This is a copy cat league, young bigs are at a premium, look at DeAndre Jordan and Javale McGee given minutes. Both were deficient on the offensive end, but given minutes have produced, same could of Ian and Ajinca. Nice trade chips to have.

Axilla · 01-07-2011, 04:14 PM

The best thing we having going for us is that the West is pretty wide open

unless we can get a bigtime scorer next to dirk, it might be smartest to wait...

PaRobful · 01-07-2011, 04:39 PM

think so too. we could trade butler, think some teams are interested cause of his contract....but hopefully not. we have no chance for the championship this year, thats the reason, why we dont need a trade, I think.

Underdog · 01-07-2011, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaRobful

think so too. we could trade butler, think some teams are interested cause of his contract....but hopefully not. we have no chance for the championship this year, thats the reason, why we dont need a trade, I think.

Kobe is battling injuries, we match up well with the Spurs, we already beat the Heat twice and Caron Butler's production is easily replaceable - we have as good a shot as any team in the league right now...

GTFO with your weaksauce!

CadBane · 01-07-2011, 05:01 PM

We have a real dearth of SFs with Butler down. You start Matrix...who's the backup SF?

Wood, Lex, Ian - Center
Card, Novak - PF
JJB, Jet - PG/SG

We really do not have a backup SF. I suppose when Roddy is healthy, if we start him, DeShawn could play some backup 3. However, I actually like him starting.

BGMaverick9 · 01-07-2011, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

We really do not have a backup SF. I suppose when Roddy is healthy, if we start him, DeShawn could play some backup 3. However, I actually like him starting.

I think that's the general idea when all pieces are rolling. Stevenson can set the table for Roddy and then move to the 3 when Marion needs to rest.

Once everyone is healthy, they just need to sit Jet until the fourth quarter and then let him loose.

Thomas86 · 01-07-2011, 05:56 PM

No way do I trade Haywood with the way Andrew Bynum seems like he's getting back in shape, I don't want Chandler, Ajinca and Ian Mahinmi trying to battle the Lakers front line of Bynum, Pau and Odom.

Butler + Ajinca + Draft pick...that should be able to get something.

dalger · 01-07-2011, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Kobe is battling injuries, we match up well with the Spurs, we already beat the Heat twice and Caron Butler's production is easily replaceable - we have as good a shot as any team in the league right now...

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

I think that's the general idea when all pieces are rolling. Stevenson can set the table for Roddy and then move to the 3 when Marion needs to rest.

I'm afraid the scenario BG describes causes Underdog's assumption as it relates to our championship hopes to be less likely.

We could play Dirk around 38 minutes in the playoffs, let Marion back him up for 10 minutes and play him another 25 minutes at the 3. That would leave DeShawn to play 23 minutes at the small forward spot.

I'm not sure that's good enough to be a championship team. Our forward rotation wouldn't be as good as it was prior to Caron's injury, Marion and DeShawn would have to play out of position and we would be in major trouble with one of those three guys in foul trouble. Dirk has been in foul trouble before and it should happen to Marion and DeShawn as well due to them having to guard the other teams' best players.

Right now, I'm just "hopeful" we can win a ring with Dirk and Roddy back. Signing another small forward or combo forward would turn me into a "confident" fan.

Underdog · 01-07-2011, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalger

Right now, I'm just "hopeful" we can win a ring with Dirk and Roddy back. Signing another small forward or combo forward would turn me into a "confident" fan.

I think we can compete for a ring without making a trade.

I also think we'll trade Butler's contract before the deadline.

Do the math...

BGMaverick9 · 01-07-2011, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalger

I'm afraid the scenario BG describes causes Underdog's assumption as it relates to our championship hopes to be less likely.

We could play Dirk around 38 minutes in the playoffs, let Marion back him up for 10 minutes and play him another 25 minutes at the 3. That would leave DeShawn to play 23 minutes at the small forward spot.

I'm not sure that's good enough to be a championship team. Our forward rotation wouldn't be as good as it was prior to Caron's injury, Marion and DeShawn would have to play out of position and we would be in major trouble with one of those three guys in foul trouble. Dirk has been in foul trouble before and it should happen to Marion and DeShawn as well due to them having to guard the other teams' best players.

Right now, I'm just "hopeful" we can win a ring with Dirk and Roddy back. Signing another small forward or combo forward would turn me into a "confident" fan.

Saying the forward rotation wouldn't be as good as it was prior is pretty obvious. Marion is comfortable switching between the 3 and the 4 but he feels he's best used as a 4. I would say DeShawn is the player who might be out of position, but based on the SG going with him, it actually doesn't change his role offensively. Defensively, he might have to guard a player a little bigger than him but he's likely staying with the top scoring threat or second...so that's not new.

xrobx · 01-07-2011, 09:48 PM

i hate to be captain negativity but i feel that if we don't either

a. make a decent trade

or

b. have roddy come back at an all-star caliber level scoring 15-20 ppg

we don't have a shot at the championship this year

i thought we had a great shot before butler went down. =(

dude1394 · 01-07-2011, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xrobx

i hate to be captain negativity but i feel that if we don't either

a. make a decent trade

or

b. have roddy come back at an all-star caliber level scoring 15-20 ppg

we don't have a shot at the championship this year

i thought we had a great shot before butler went down. =(

I don't think you are being negative at all, it's a reality. We just see way too much of a drop-off without dirk/caron.

dalger · 01-07-2011, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Saying the forward rotation wouldn't be as good as it was prior is pretty obvious. Marion is comfortable switching between the 3 and the 4 but he feels he's best used as a 4. I would say DeShawn is the player who might be out of position, but based on the SG going with him, it actually doesn't change his role offensively. Defensively, he might have to guard a player a little bigger than him but he's likely staying with the top scoring threat or second...so that's not new.

Okay, it's possible that this kind of lineup may actually work and Roddy could replace Caron in terms of offensive production. The remaining problem would be our lack of depth at the 4 and 3. Any further injury, even a minor one, or foul trouble would send Cardinal on the court. Or we could go small. Really small, given that Jet and Roddy are undersized at the 2 and JJB would be considered undersized even in high school.

b_o_r · 01-07-2011, 10:27 PM

I said it in the other thread and I'll say it in here: The Mavs should go after Troy Murphy. He is in Avery's doghouse and is in a contract year. Troy can score from the low post and can hit the 3 which allows him to babysit Barea and run the pick and roll with Terry. He is also a good rebounder, something Cardinal is not doing.

dude1394 · 01-07-2011, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b_o_r

I said it in the other thread and I'll say it in here: The Mavs should go after Troy Murphy. He is in Avery's doghouse and is in a contract year. Troy can score from the low post and can hit the 3 which allows him to babysit Barea and run the pick and roll with Terry. He is also a good rebounder, something Cardinal is not doing.

So we going to trade ajinca for him? Why would I trade caron for a backup for dirk?

BGMaverick9 · 01-07-2011, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalger

Okay, it's possible that this kind of lineup may actually work and Roddy could replace Caron in terms of offensive production. The remaining problem would be our lack of depth at the 4 and 3. Any further injury, even a minor one, or foul trouble would send Cardinal on the court. Or we could go small. Really small, given that Jet and Roddy are undersized at the 2 and JJB would be considered undersized even in high school.

I'm pretty sure 90% of the teams in the league would have the same hang-up...
"if this happens, then we're in a bind."

mac222b · 01-08-2011, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

I'm pretty sure 90% of the teams in the league would have the same hang-up...
"if this happens, then we're in a bind."

except 90% of teams don't have a prayer of getting to the Finals.
i still think they're blowing smoke-- players, coaches, FO. it's part gamesmanship and true to some degree that they have confidence in what's here now. it simply doesn't lessen the need for another 3. DeShawn is a good stopgap at the 3 but if Marion sits who guards the bigger 3's like Melo?

If Artest or Odom goes down they have Barnes. Blake behind Fisher. The Magic have tons of quality depth. San Antonio and the Celtics(Nate, Big Baby, West, Shaq are all pretty skilled) are pretty deep.

i think w/out an addition that can swing between the 2/3(Iggy, S-Jax) or 3/4 (G.Wallace) positions or a guy like Granger or Prince or possibly Casspi we slip behind those top tier teams(Miami, SA, Boston, LA, Orlando) and look more like Chicago, Utah and maybe OKC or NO. a lack of quality depth, which entails guys playing more minutes, out of position, trying to do too much or even playing guys that preferably never see the floor in big spots(Cardinal, Dojo)definitely catches up with you.

IMHO they doth protest too much. Cuban and Donnie will find a way to get a deal done no matter what--even if it means overpaying.

KillerLeft · 01-08-2011, 10:29 AM

For my money, this team didn't have enough scoring to "gut out" the last five minutes of a playoff game with Butler. I see going to war with the current roster as a complete non option.

The problem is that the guys who could truly help were long-shots before Butler's injury, and now that his expiring contract is no longer attached to a usable player, they're complete pipe dreams. Any chance to acquire Anthony, Paul, Ellis or Martin is gone, so we should stop talking about them. No one seems to think Mark and Donnie have the slightest intention of breaking the bank for a non scorer like Iguodala, so we can pretty much eliminate him, too.

Who does that leave? The "pickings" get pretty damn "slim" after that...

Axilla · 01-08-2011, 01:05 PM

nobody thinks iguodala's season is an outlier due to something happening in philly?

he's averaged 18.2, 19.9, 18.8 , and 17.1 PPG respectively over the last 4 seasons. and right now at 14.2 it almost looks like he's reaching the end of his peak...

doesn't matter to anybody? not worth exploring?

Fragism · 01-08-2011, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axilla

nobody thinks iguodala's season is an outlier due to something happening in philly?

he's averaged 18.2, 19.9, 18.8 , and 17.1 PPG respectively over the last 4 seasons. and right now at 14.2 it almost looks like he's reaching the end of his peak...

doesn't matter to anybody? not worth exploring?

He's been injured this season.

Bayliss · 01-08-2011, 04:47 PM

His achillis is killing him. That has cost him some explosivesness.

Axilla · 01-08-2011, 05:01 PM

i knew there was something missing in my equation.. i dunno why i forgot about his achilles

Kidd Karma · 01-10-2011, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

except 90% of teams don't have a prayer of getting to the Finals.
i still think they're blowing smoke-- players, coaches, FO. it's part gamesmanship and true to some degree that they have confidence in what's here now. it simply doesn't lessen the need for another 3. DeShawn is a good stopgap at the 3 but if Marion sits who guards the bigger 3's like Melo?

If Artest or Odom goes down they have Barnes. Blake behind Fisher. The Magic have tons of quality depth. San Antonio and the Celtics(Nate, Big Baby, West, Shaq are all pretty skilled) are pretty deep.

i think w/out an addition that can swing between the 2/3(Iggy, S-Jax) or 3/4 (G.Wallace) positions or a guy like Granger or Prince or possibly Casspi we slip behind those top tier teams(Miami, SA, Boston, LA, Orlando) and look more like Chicago, Utah and maybe OKC or NO. a lack of quality depth, which entails guys playing more minutes, out of position, trying to do too much or even playing guys that preferably never see the floor in big spots(Cardinal, Dojo)definitely catches up with you.

IMHO they doth protest too much. Cuban and Donnie will find a way to get a deal done no matter what--even if it means overpaying.

Apples and oranges, you take the 2nd best player off each of those team and I bet they will not make it to the conference finals. Gasol off the Lakers, Manu off the Spurs(we saw that 2 years ago), Rondo off the Celtics, Wade off the Heat, Hedo off the Magic. They might be able to withstand the regular season by mixing and matching, but no way they can compete in the spring.