LAD - Life After Deron

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by oilfieldtrash

He should of been there.

Do I need to break down contract law as well?

[oilfieldtrash]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Do I need to break down contract law as well?

He's the star of the show. They'd been pissed for sure but they aren't taking him to court for missing a taping.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by oilfieldtrash

He's the star of the show. They'd been pissed for sure but they aren't taking him to court for missing a taping.

If you believe there would have been no consequences for him being there, what is your conclusion for why he wasn't?

[Wang Zhi Zhi]

Originally Posted by jthig32

If you believe there would have been no consequences for him being there, what is your conclusion for why he wasn't?

There may be some consequences, but you prioritize in life. Contracts aren't some sort of indentured servitude that keeps you on lock-down. They're broken all the time and then you either make the other side whole or work out a different arrangement. If missing one shooting of ST gets you sued (extremely unlikely), then so be it.

Here's a random hypo for you: You sign a contract to do repair work on some guy's house next Monday for $100. Shortly thereafter, ESPN calls and says they want you for a Sports Center anchor job (or whatever your dream job is) at 5x your current salary, but that you MUST be there on Monday for the interview.

What do you do? Do you tell ESPN you can't b/c you're "contractually obligated" for the house work? Of course not! You prioritize, tell the other dude you're cancelling, and either work with him or deal with whatever damages you may cause. Happens 100 times a day every day in every business.

This is what burns us up so much. MC prioritized and gave Shark Tank priority over the Mavs. Why, I have no idea. But he CHOSE to give them priority. Being "contractually obligated" doesn't put you under house arrest and keep you from doing something more important.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by oilfieldtrash

He's the star of the show. They'd been pissed for sure but they aren't taking him to court for missing a taping.

Do I need to explain how labor unions work? They most certainly WILL sue his ass if he breaches his contract, star or not - it's his signature on that contract.

The entertainment industry doesn't work like the NBA - the talent doesn't run the show.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Wang Zhi Zhi

There may be some consequences, but you prioritize in life. Contracts aren't some sort of indentured servitude that keeps you on lock-down. They're broken all the time and then you either make the other side whole or work out a different arrangement. If missing one shooting of ST gets you sued (extremely unlikely), then so be it.

Here's a random hypo for you: You sign a contract to do repair work on some guy's house next Monday for $100. Shortly thereafter, ESPN calls and says they want you for a Sports Center anchor job (or whatever your dream job is) at 5x your current salary, but that you MUST be there on Monday for the interview.

What do you do? Do you tell ESPN you can't b/c you're "contractually obligated" for the house work? Of course not! You prioritize, tell the other dude you're cancelling, and either work with him or deal with whatever damages you may cause. Happens 100 times a day every day in every business.

This is what burns us up so much. MC prioritized and gave Shark Tank priority over the Mavs. Why, I have no idea. But he CHOSE to give them priority. Being "contractually obligated" doesn't put you under house arrest and keep you from doing something more important.

Let me ask you this: Do you think you wanted Deron Williams on the team more than Cuban did? I really doubt it, myself. In fact, I'd wager that signing Deron Williams was roughly a thousand times more important to Cuban than it was to any of us.

I also recognize that Mark Cuban is one of hell of a salesman, above all else. The man knows how to sell anything, and has made a lot of money from it over the years.

Given those two factors, I feel fairly comfortable assuming that Cuban balanced the potential fallout of missing the ST shooting against the potential negatives of not being at the meeting in person. He considered all aspects of the issue, and made a choice.

Is it a guarantee that he made the right choice? I suppose not. Maybe he assessed the situation incorrectly. That's possible, although I doubt it.

But what I cannot accept is that someone actually thinks that Cuban basically just decided the Mavs and Deron weren't that important. Or that he just made a stupid, flippant decision. Or that you, or anyone else, has a better grasp on what the consequences of breaking the contract would have been.

Mark Cuban has proven time and again that he's fanatically committed to doing what is best for the Mavs. And here you are just assuming that he suddenly changed that stance in this instance.

It's ridiculous.

[chumdawg]

Seems that Cuban could have had a face-to-face meeting with Williams if he'd wanted to. It didn't have to be at the stroke of the midnight. The dude took three days to make his decision, right? I'm sure Cuban could have made an appointment that fit both their schedules. The dude has his own jet, after all.

I'm glad it worked out the way it did, given all the other moves they were able to make. But the impression it gave off--to me, anyway--is that Cuban didn't sell out 100% to land his man.

[The Ghost of Championship]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

The Knicks won't let him go. I would be absolutely stunned if they did.

Are you stunned or was this some board joke I don't get?

[Wang Zhi Zhi]

Love Simmons:

--One of the show's [Game of Thrones] funniest moments goes to one of the month's funniest moments — Mark Cuban missing Deron Williams's visit to Dallas for the Mavericks' big "Here's why you should play for us, Deron" pitch. Why? Because Cuban was in Los Angeles taping that week's episode of Shark Tank. Does anyone else keep picturing this exchange?

Williams: "So why isn't Mark here? Is he running late?"

(Donnie Nelson and Rick Carlisle glance at each other nervously.)

Jeff Schwartz (Williams's agent): "Shouldn't we wait for him?"

Nelson (finally): "Mark can't make it today."

Schwartz: "What happened? Family emergency or something?"

(Nelson and Carlisle glance at each other nervously again.)

Williams: "Is everything all right?"

Carlisle (finally): "Have you ever seen the show he's on, Shark Tank?
(Williams and Schwartz look at him blankly.)

Carlisle: "Well … "

Anyway, you're not gonna believe this, but Williams ended up re-signing with Brooklyn. Normally I'd have more barbs here … but I actually enjoy Shark Tank. I fully support Cuban's decision to throw away Dallas's 2012 title defense to create enough cap space to potentially sign a marquee free agent like Williams, then to miss THE crucial pitch meeting with Williams because he was contractually obligated to tape a reality-TV show. I care more about Shark Tank than the fate of the Mavericks. If I rooted for the Mavericks? I might not be as happy.--

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/...thrones-part-1

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Wang Zhi Zhi

Love Simmons:

--One of the show's [Game of Thrones] funniest moments goes to one of the month's funniest moments — Mark Cuban missing Deron Williams's visit to Dallas for the Mavericks' big "Here's why you should play for us, Deron" pitch. Why? Because Cuban was in Los Angeles taping that week's episode of Shark Tank. Does anyone else keep picturing this exchange?

Williams: "So why isn't Mark here? Is he running late?"

(Donnie Nelson and Rick Carlisle glance at each other nervously.)

Jeff Schwartz (Williams's agent): "Shouldn't we wait for him?"

Nelson (finally): "Mark can't make it today."

Schwartz: "What happened? Family emergency or something?"

(Nelson and Carlisle glance at each other nervously again.)

Williams: "Is everything all right?"

Carlisle (finally): "Have you ever seen the show he's on, Shark Tank?
(Williams and Schwartz look at him blankly.)

Carlisle: "Well … "

Anyway, you're not gonna believe this, but Williams ended up re-signing with Brooklyn. Normally I'd have more barbs here … but I actually enjoy Shark Tank. I fully support Cuban's decision to throw away Dallas's 2012 title defense to create enough cap space to potentially sign a marquee free agent like Williams, then to miss THE crucial pitch meeting with Williams because he was contractually obligated to tape a reality-TV show. I care more about Shark Tank than the fate of the Mavericks. If I rooted for the Mavericks? I might not be as happy.--

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/...thrones-part-1

I complained about this before anyone....

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

I complained about this before anyone....

I was complaining about it as Sefko blogged it initially.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

^I was right there with Longhorn and SMC complaining about it, but I don't believe that Cuban showing up would have changed the decision. I'm sure Cuban could have had a face-to-face if he really wanted to, but he would have said the same things as Donnie and Rick. He would have said that Joe Johnson and his horrid cap killing contract shouldn't be enough, but to Deron...it was. Simple as that. I still believe that the extra year was the the real reason, but c'est la vie. It just wasn't mean't to be.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

^I was right there with Longhorn and SMC complaining about it, but I don't believe that Cuban showing up would have changed the decision. I'm sure Cuban could have had a face-to-face if he really wanted to, but he would have said the same things as Donnie and Rick. He would have said that Joe Johnson and his horrid cap killing contract shouldn't be enough, but to Deron...it was. Simple as that. I still believe that the extra year was the the real reason, but c'est la vie. It just wasn't mean't to be.

I agree on essentially all fronts. I don't like that Cuban wasn't there, but I don't think his being there would have changed the result.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

I complained about this before anyone....

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

I was complaining about it as Sefko blogged it initially.

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

^I was right there with Longhorn and SMC complaining about it, but I don't believe that Cuban showing up would have changed the decision. *I'm sure Cuban could have had a face-to-face if he really wanted to, but he would have said the same things as Donnie and Rick. *He would have said that Joe Johnson and his horrid cap killing contract shouldn't be enough, but to Deron...it was. *Simple as that. *I still believe that the extra year was the the real reason, but c'est la vie. *It just wasn't mean't to be.

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

I agree on essentially all fronts. *I don't like that Cuban wasn't there, but I don't think his being there would have changed the result.

I was complaining about everyone complaining about it before everyone came to the conclusion that it wasn't really worth complaining about in the first place (since it's not like Cuban's presence was going to change any of the reasons that Deron was going to base his decision upon...)

So I win one free internet.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I was complaining about everyone complaining about it before everyone came to the conclusion that it wasn't really worth complaining about in the first place (since it's not like Cuban's presence was going to change any of the reasons that Deron was going to base his decision upon...)

So I win one free internet.

You win this battle.....

[G-Man]

Remember Leon the Barber who used to be on the ticket? He had this great saying. "Your actions speak so loudly, I can't hear a word your lips are saying." Cuban's actions said he was planning to play within the rules set out by the new CBA. That means he plans to stay under the cap and build his team without paying luxury tax. New Jersey's action of taking on the worst contract in basketball said just the opposite. It said our Russian owner doesn't care what it costs... he will spend whatever it takes. If it costs him another 50 million to get Dwight Howard, he is willing to do it. Deron had that and 25 million more reasons to think he'd be better off in New York.

Of course that was before we all saw the result of Cuban saying under the cap...all sorts of valuable players got amnestied, and he instantly put a better team around Dirk that Deron has around him. And next year will probably be better. One thing is clear...Cuban has shown a long term commitment to the Mavs. The Nets could just be a fleeting fad for the Russian Billionaire. Deron rolled his dice and is now a very rich New Yorker, playing for a still mediocre team that is locked into cap hell for years, who's future will be determined by how long its owner is willing to pay $4 for every $1 in value for future players.

The Mavs future will be determined by how smart Mark and Donnie are. They look pretty damned sharp right now. (I still suspect they have pictures of the Indy ownership team in the middle of a goat orgy to have pulled off that Collison deal, though)

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Well the Mavs filled in all the holes after losing out on Deron. A fan can't logically ask for more. Teams needs were starting pg, starting sg, upgrade at center, better back-up to Dirk, and get younger. Check, check, check, check, and check.

[Wang Zhi Zhi]

Except that DW himself said that he thought he was going to Dallas but changed his mind after the meetings:

"I was really close to going to Dallas .... I actually thought that's where I was going to go," he said. "I had the meetings and it kind of changed my mind because once I got out of the meeting with Dallas and saw the way they were going and the team they were putting out there, and I saw that we just made a trade for Joe Johnson and I felt like that team for a longer time would be the better team.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Wang Zhi Zhi

Except that DW himself said that he thought he was going to Dallas but changed his mind after the meetings:

"I was really close to going to Dallas .... I actually thought that's where I was going to go," he said. "I had the meetings and it kind of changed my mind because once I got out of the meeting with Dallas and saw the way they were going and the team they were putting out there, and I saw that we just made a trade for Joe Johnson and I felt like that team for a longer time would be the better team.

And nowhere in there does he say, "If Mark Cuban had been there, I woulda chose Dallas." And don't believe everything he says after the fact. The extra 20+ million in that fifth year would be tough for anyone to pass up...taxes or not.

Cuban has proven to put a playoff team on the floor every season. If that isn't enough to convince Deron then in the words of Lloyd Christmas...welp, cya later.

[spreedom]

Let's stop kidding ourselves... the extra $25M had a lot more to do with his decision than Mark missing the meeting. I don't blame him for it but to say that Mark not being there sealed our fate on its own is an exaggeration, in my opinion.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by spreedom

Let's stop kidding ourselves... the extra $25M had a lot more to do with his decision than Mark missing the meeting. I don't blame him for it but to say that Mark not being there sealed our fate on its own is an exaggeration, in my opinion.

25m AND a promise of all the toys in the toy store. Pecker-ov went all out on his promises to overspend to keep Williams.

We had dirk, Marion and 3 mill in cap space and an owner that actually cares about the CBA and luxury tax

[Kidd Karma]

Deron Williams, age 35:

http://newark.patch.com/articles/bay...spect-indicted

[sefant77]

LBD - Life before Dwight

[Murphy3]

Regardless, it was stupid for Cuban not to be there.

[Bayliss]

I remember saying the same thing and I was told (paraphrasing):

They have teleconferencing nowadays, there is no need for him to be there personally.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

I guess the issue with showing up in person is where do you draw the line with other players? If you show up for Deron, then do you not show up for other guys? I think that might send a sour message that some guys get special treatment while others don't. I'm just trying to justify it because I think he should have been there, but there had to be reasons other than just stupid Shark Tank...right?

[turin]

"Let's stop kidding ourselves... the extra $25M"

Don't forget about the EXTRA NY state income taxes and higher cost of living. Yeah, he got an extra $25 million, but those dollars aren't the same as TX dollars. I think the biggest financial impact for DW will be the OFFCOURT money earned due to increased exposure and endorsements. In the end though, it wouldn't surprise me if he regrets his decision.

[markus1234]

Guys it is time to move on. Deron is our enemy.

Let's not turn Deron into Devin,.... Harris.

[EricaLubarsky]

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Wang Zhi Zhi

There may be some consequences, but you prioritize in life. Contracts aren't some sort of indentured servitude that keeps you on lock-down. They're broken all the time and then you either make the other side whole or work out a different arrangement. If missing one shooting of ST gets you sued (extremely unlikely), then so be it.

Here's a random hypo for you: You sign a contract to do repair work on some guy's house next Monday for $100. Shortly thereafter, ESPN calls and says they want you for a Sports Center anchor job (or whatever your dream job is) at 5x your current salary, but that you MUST be there on Monday for the interview.

What do you do? Do you tell ESPN you can't b/c you're "contractually obligated" for the house work? Of course not! You prioritize, tell the other dude you're cancelling, and either work with him or deal with whatever damages you may cause. Happens 100 times a day every day in every business.

This is what burns us up so much. MC prioritized and gave Shark Tank priority over the Mavs. Why, I have no idea. But he CHOSE to give them priority. Being "contractually obligated" doesn't put you under house arrest and keep you from doing something more important.

I was miffed that Cuban didn't meet with him, but your "contracts are no big deal" theme here is pretty hilarious. It's especially hilarious because you have absolutely no idea what the terms of his contract even are.

I also love "if it gets him sued...so be it." It's great to hear that you're giving somebody else the green light to get sued, in the unlikely event it happens. I'm sure Cuban will be very relieved to know that you'll be footing the bill.

[Popeye]

There's absolutely no way Cuban's contract allows the network to sue him for missing one show. He's a billionaire. He has lawyers that review every contract he signs and make sure his assets are protected. I'm sure there would have been consequences but him getting sued is not realistic.

[oilfieldtrash]

Its alright. We'll pick up DWill after his current contract runs out and he wants to play for a ring on a contender like the mavs that will be lead by an all star in Cunningham and an aging Dwight Howard.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Popeye

There's absolutely no way Cuban's contract allows the network to sue him for missing one show. He's a billionaire. He has lawyers that review every contract he signs and make sure his assets are protected. I'm sure there would have been consequences but him getting sued is not realistic.

It's highly unlikely he would have been sued (for various reasons), but you too are making seriously unfounded assumptions based on nothing more than conjecture.

As for "he's a billionaire," do you think billionaires don't get sued all the time? Do you realize that Cuban's wealth and legal d**k-swinging leverage is dwarfed by the folks on the other side of his Shark Tank contract (Disney/ABC)? Trust me--whatever advantages you think a guy like Cuban has in negotiating a contract with his lawyers, a mega international media conglomerate has vastly more.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

It's highly unlikely he would have been sued (for various reasons), but you too are making seriously unfounded assumptions based on nothing more than conjecture.

As for "he's a billionaire," do you think billionaires don't get sued all the time? Do you realize that Cuban's wealth and legal d**k-swinging leverage is dwarfed by the folks on the other side of his Shark Tank contract (Disney/ABC)? Trust me--whatever advantages you think a guy like Cuban has in negotiating a contract with his lawyers, a mega international media conglomerate has vastly more.

No need to sue when you can blacklist... If buying a MLB team becomes a next-to-impossible task after crossing a guy like David Stern, then getting a role as a tree in a community theater production would be just as difficult after crossing a guy like Bob Iger.

[spreedom]

Originally Posted by turin

"Let's stop kidding ourselves... the extra $25M"

Don't forget about the EXTRA NY state income taxes and higher cost of living. Yeah, he got an extra $25 million, but those dollars aren't the same as TX dollars. I think the biggest financial impact for DW will be the OFFCOURT money earned due to increased exposure and endorsements. In the end though, it wouldn't surprise me if he regrets his decision.

I don't think market size means anything more since... you know, the internet. If he plays well and his team wins a lot of games, he could play in Egypt and still be a huge star.

[Popeye]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

It's highly unlikely he would have been sued (for various reasons), but you too are making seriously unfounded assumptions based on nothing more than conjecture.

As for "he's a billionaire," do you think billionaires don't get sued all the time? Do you realize that Cuban's wealth and legal d**k-swinging leverage is dwarfed by the folks on the other side of his Shark Tank contract (Disney/ABC)? Trust me--whatever advantages you think a guy like Cuban has in negotiating a contract with his lawyers, a mega international media conglomerate has vastly more.

Wow, you're really misrepresenting what I said. I never said he can't be sued because he's a billionaire and never said his lawyers are better than ABC's.

My point is any Billionaire (in his right mind) is not going to sign any contract that could potentially put his assets at risk for missing one day of work. Please tell me how I'm making "unfounded assumptions" with this statement? The only assumption I'm making is Cuban is not a complete idiot.

I'll go out on a limb and say that if Dwight Howard gets to FA next year and meets with the Mavs, Cuban will be there. Even if he has to miss a day of Shark Tank to do it.

[chumdawg]

Apropos of nothing (or...is it?), did you guys see where the Cleveland Browns just sold for ONE...BILLION...dollars? Or more, maybe it was. Hell, I don't know. I just know it was the Cleveland Browns.

It's like we've entered into a brave new world.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Popeye

My point is any Billionaire (in his right mind) is not going to sign any contract that could potentially put his assets at risk for missing one day of work. Please tell me how I'm making "unfounded assumptions" with this statement? The only assumption I'm making is Cuban is not a complete idiot.

And my point is that you don't understand how these issues work well enough to comment on this. It has nothing to do with how much money he has, or whether he's an idiot. You are trying to impose a notion of common sense ("Cuban is not an idiot, therefore I'm confident of X and Y") onto issues that aren't nearly as intuitive or sensible as you might think.

Unless you have extensive experience dealing with entertainment contracts or contract law generally, you really can't comment credibly to any degree on the dynamics here. And if you do have that experience, I'm fairly concerned about the accuracy of what you just said.

Anyway, not a big deal. I'm grinding a bit of an axe here, so I apologize for that.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Apropos of nothing (or...is it?), did you guys see where the Cleveland Browns just sold for ONE...BILLION...dollars? Or more, maybe it was. Hell, I don't know. I just know it was the Cleveland Browns.

It's like we've entered into a brave new world.

It blows me away every time I see those Forbes lists of the 50 most valuable sports franchises worldwide, and all 30 NFL teams are well into the top 50. Only the biggest, baddest teams in other sports (Yankees, Man U, etc.) can beat out the bottom feeders of the NFL. Crazy.

[Popeye]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

And my point is that you don't understand how these issues work well enough to comment on this. It has nothing to do with how much money he has, or whether he's an idiot. You are trying to impose a notion of common sense ("Cuban is not an idiot, therefore I'm confident of X and Y") onto issues that aren't nearly as intuitive or sensible as you might think.

Is there a precedent for a TV star getting sued by the network for not showing up? I honestly don't know. It seems to me like they usually just get fired, lose their paychecks, and that's it. I'll admit that I'm not an expert so it's entirely possible I'm missing something.

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Anyway, not a big deal. I'm grinding a bit of an axe here, so I apologize for that.

No worries. It's the off-season so we've got to find something to discuss. For the record, I don't fault Cuban for missing the meeting with Deron, and I'm pretty happy with how the off-season turned out.