Dirk with high praise for Durant

[chumdawg]

I'm pretty sure that Nellie's willingness to allow the seven-footer to hoist threes (at a time when a lot of coaches, Pops perhaps included, would not have) played a large role in Dirk's development as a player.

[markus1234]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

I'm pretty sure that Nellie's willingness to allow the seven-footer to hoist threes (at a time when a lot of coaches, Pops perhaps included, would not have) played a large role in Dirk's development as a player.

Let's put Nellie's "generosity" into perspective...

23yo Dirk 1.8-4.6 .397
23yo Durant 2.0-5.2 .387

As we can see, it was nothing unusual. Dirk should have taken even more 3's...(and shots)

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by markus1234

Let's put Nellie's "generosity" into perspective...

23yo Dirk 1.8-4.6 .397
23yo Durant 2.0-5.2 .387

As we can see, it was nothing unusual. Dirk should have taken even more 3's...(and shots)

Um, Durant is not a seven footer. He's not even close to a seven footer. This has absolutely nothing to do with chum's point. You know who else shoots more threes than Dirk? Ray Allen. That's as relevant as what you just said.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Um, Durant is not a seven footer. He's not even close to a seven footer. This has absolutely nothing to do with chum's point. You know who else shoots more threes than Dirk? Ray Allen. That's as relevant as what you just said.

Many NBA analysts and play by play guys have taken to saying that Durant is "practically 7 feet tall" when gushing about him.

Drives me insane. And I love the guy. But he has enough crazy aspects to his play and his story that are awesome. Can we not try and force in another that just doesn't apply?

[markus1234]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Um, Durant is not a seven footer. He's not even close to a seven footer. This has absolutely nothing to do with chum's point. You know who else shoots more threes than Dirk? Ray Allen. That's as relevant as what you just said.

1st of all young Dirk was not a seven footer either. And 2ndly there were already big guys who shot from outside (Horry, Perkins and co...).

Saying that Nellie gave Dirk as much freedom as Durant (gets from Brooks)...or young Kobe got from Phil Jackson, is simply not true.

Durant gets the "face of the NBA" treatment from his coach, refs and the media. Dirk on the other hand was a "German talent" for too many yrs, nothing more nothing less. And that sucks, because Dirk turned out to be a HOF. He deserved a "bigger role" from the beginning...

[Kante]

Originally Posted by markus1234

1st of all young Dirk was not a seven footer either.

Huh, did i miss somehing?

[nowhereman]

Originally Posted by Kante

Huh, did i miss somehing?

Here's proof - look how he's barely taller than the net:

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by markus1234

1st of all young Dirk was not a seven footer either.

wat

Originally Posted by Kante

Huh, did i miss somehing?

Unfortunately, you did not.

[markus1234]

Guys you make me sad. You do not know Dirk.

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by markus1234

Guys you make me sad. You do not know Dirk.

What did you mean, about his height? I know he has filled out a lot since he got here, but I didn't know that he grew any taller.

[Rick41]

Originally Posted by markus1234

1st of all young Dirk was not a seven footer

I stopped reading after this.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

I'm pretty sure that Nellie's willingness to allow the seven-footer to hoist threes (at a time when a lot of coaches, Pops perhaps included, would not have) played a large role in Dirk's development as a player.

I disagree completely. Coaches know that a three pointer is worth more than a two pointer. Pops has always shown how creative he is, only an idiot like Avery would take away such a weapon.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by dude1394

I disagree completely. Coaches know that a three pointer is worth more than a two pointer. Pops has always shown how creative he is, only an idiot like Avery would take away such a weapon.

I'm not sure what you disagree with, but you didn't refute anything chum said either. Nellie was one of the first (if not the first) guys to allow a seven footer to camp out on the perimeter and rain shots.

I don't know where you get the idea that Popovich (I assume this is "Pops," but I've never heard anybody call him that) is "creative." He's a damn, damn fine coach--possibly the best in the business. Surely a better coach than Nellie overall. But he's very by the book. For 15+ years he's had a team constructed of 5 guys who play their positions in an extremely traditional way. They do it incredibly well, but there's nothing "creative" about Duncan in the low block, Manu and Tony on elbow screens, spacing the floor with shooters, emphasis on corner threes, baseline funneling on defense, etc.

Chum's point was--Dirk's development absolutely had something to do with the untraditional way he was utilized, especially early in his career. If you have a rebuttal to that point, I'd love to hear it, but I don't think it exists.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by dude1394

I disagree completely. Coaches know that a three pointer is worth more than a two pointer. Pops has always shown how creative he is, only an idiot like Avery would take away such a weapon.

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

I'm not sure what you disagree with, but you didn't refute anything chum said either. Nellie was one of the first (if not the first) guys to allow a seven footer to camp out on the perimeter and rain shots.

I don't know where you get the idea that Popovich (I assume this is "Pops," but I've never heard anybody call him that) is "creative." He's a damn, damn fine coach--possibly the best in the business. Surely a better coach than Nellie overall. But he's very by the book. For 15+ years he's had a team constructed of 5 guys who play their positions in an extremely traditional way. They do it incredibly well, but there's nothing "creative" about Duncan in the low block, Manu and Tony on elbow screens, spacing the floor with shooters, emphasis on corner threes, baseline funneling on defense, etc.

Chum's point was--Dirk's development absolutely had something to do with the untraditional way he was utilized, especially early in his career. If you have a rebuttal to that point, I'd love to hear it, but I don't think it exists.

I would also point out that being smart enough to not take away the weapon is NOT the same thing as having the vision to nurture and embrace the weapon to begin with.

I strongly dislike a great many things about Nellie and the way he goes about his business, but you can't discount the impact he had in shaping Dirk's career and allowing him to thrive as such an unconventional player. Dirk himself has spoke many times about how fortunate he was to have a coach open minded enough to figure out how to best use Dirk's talents, rather than forcing him to conform to the traditional standard of the NBA PF.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I strongly dislike a great many things about Nellie and the way he goes about his business, but you can't discount the impact he had in shaping Dirk's career and allowing him to thrive as such an unconventional player. Dirk himself has spoke many times about how fortunate he was to have a coach open minded enough to figure out how to best use Dirk's talents, rather than forcing him to conform to the traditional standard of the NBA PF.

Agree on all counts.

Originally Posted by jthig32

Many NBA analysts and play by play guys have taken to saying that Durant is "practically 7 feet tall" when gushing about him.

Drives me insane. And I love the guy. But he has enough crazy aspects to his play and his story that are awesome. Can we not try and force in another that just doesn't apply?

It's funny, there's a bit of an illusion with his height, I think, because he's so skinny. He looked even taller in college I thought, when he was 15-20 lbs lighter.

[KillerLeft]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

I'm pretty sure that Nellie's willingness to allow the seven-footer to hoist threes (at a time when a lot of coaches, Pops perhaps included, would not have) played a large role in Dirk's development as a player.

That's a fair point. On the other hand, I remember being frustrated at the time because of Nelson's reluctance to try using Dirk as a creator rather than a finisher every once in a while.

It's great that he can shoot 3's and all, but in my opinion there were a lot of good years wasted because Dirk was basically used as a featured floor spacer. He didn't REALLY become a star until Johnson started giving him iso's and running high post plays for him on a the reg. Don't get me wrong - there's a whole list of things I think Johnson did wrong, too, but I think Nelson wanted no part of turning Dirk into the type of player he has become.