Antoine Walker --- Employee #8

[aexchange]

Seems that rumors are floating around that the Rockets are offering Toine the entire MLE.

Thoughts?

Ming
Walker
McGrady
Wesley
Sura

[DevinHarriswillstart]

God I hope so. Let him cancer up their team the way he does every other. Walker and Mcgrady would kill each other by mid-season.

[DubOverdose]

I can only hope the Rockets will sign him. He's a solid PF for the money they can spend, but boy will he ruin the chemistry and take the ball away from Ming and TMac.

[fin4life]

I am not so sure. I think that Walker might have finally learned his lesson after being with 3 teams in about a year. The guy has the ability to be a very good passer, and is also able to score consistantly in the paint. If Van Gundy can get through to him to tell him not to take outside shots.... he would be a great pickup. 5 Mil for Walker is a pretty good deal IMO.

Then again, he hasnt shown any disipline in his game for his entire career, so why would he start now?

[dalmations202]

The only better thing than #8 being with Houston, is if he was with Phoenix. This would be one of the great moves for the Mavs, expecially if they have nothing to do with it.

Anything taking the ball out of TMac and Yao hands -- that is as inefficient as Walker --- is great news for the Mavs.

[grndmstr_c]

If any western contender picks up Toine, regardless of what they pay him, I will consider that a good thing for the Mavs.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

I dunno grndmstr.....we should fear the chicken dance.

[chumdawg]

Hey, say what you want about the Employee, talent is talent, and AW definitely has it. If the Rox sign #8, they instantly jump ahead of us in the power picture.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

How so? I'd take Juwan Howard over Fatoine any day of the week. At least Juwan is a team player. The second you take the ball out of Mcgrady's hands and put it in Walker's, Mcgrady isn't half the player. Just look what happened with us.

[grndmstr_c]

Hey, say what you want about the Employee, talent is talent, and AW definitely has it. If the Rox sign #8, they instantly jump ahead of us in the power picture.

How short our memories are.

[Pirate]

"Hey, say what you want about the Employee, talent is talent, and AW definitely has it. If the Rox sign #8, they instantly jump ahead of us in the power picture."

What the Rox need from the PF is someone who can stick the 15' jumper, when Yao and T-Mac run the pick n roll. When Juwan did that, they were almost impossible to defend.

Now envision Walker getting one wide open 15 footer after another? Are you REALLY scared? Do you REALLY think that makes Houston a powerhouse? If so, you didnt pay attention in Dallas last year.

[DubOverdose]

They'd be better served signing Alan Henderson. He rebounds and defends well and can hit open shots, but doesn't need any touches to put his stamp on the game. He's a great role player that would never take the ball out of TMac or Yaos hands.

[aexchange]

Originally posted by: chumdawg
Hey, say what you want about the Employee, talent is talent, and AW definitely has it. If the Rox sign #8, they instantly jump ahead of us in the power picture.

what is up with all the end of the world posts? where is the firm pulse on reality here? yes, toine is a nice player. but he's never been able to scale back his game for any team, and i doubt he starts doing it now. any player that the rockets add that is going to take touches away from yao and mcgrady is a good thing as far as i'm concerned.

[chumdawg]

Do we not remember how easy the Rockets were to defend when you could make their role players try to beat you?

Do we also not remember how close the Rockets were really were to us in the standings (and in the series)?

I'm just saying, the Rockets desperately needed an infusion on talent. Walker definitely has it. In my mind, this vaults them ahead of us in the rankings, just because they were so very close to begin with and AW is so much better than the other spares they put out there with Yao and McGrady.

It's not the end of the world. It's okay if they are marginally better than us. It doesn't mean we don't have a chance against them. But if we fact them 4-5 again, AW helps them more than he hurts them.

Why the AW hate?

[grndmstr_c]

Why the AW hate?

Cause we all watched him f'up the team 2 years ago. Dumping him on Atlanta was the single biggest reason the Mavs were able to overcome the loss of the eventual MVP to improve their regular season record last year. He's got talent, no question. He should be one of the best role-player types in the league, but the unavoidable reality is that he consistently does such a horrible job of recognizing and playing within his own abilities that even bad teams are better off without him.

[rabbitproof]

The Rockets defintely need a PF and are the most two-man reliant team in the league (take away the top two players from every ballclub and Houston is in the gutter) so while AW is nobody's favorite player, it might be a fit. Toine is only going to have a limited number of touches in a JVG system and best believe he won't get more touches then Yao or Tracy. If he can become a third banana (and only a third banana) for them, it's a solid move. Depending on what other moves they make, it could help them play TMac in the backcourt, which is where he ought to be.

AW or not, they could use a truly nasty rebounder/defender in a Reggie Evans/Kelvin Cato mold though.

[dirno2000]

If the Mavericks don't win a championship, the terrorists win.

Terrorists 1
Humanity 0
-May 21st, 2005 Scoreboard

off topic, but his is by far the funniest sig on the board...I laugh every time I read it...

Hers's an interesting comment from noted Boston homer Bill Simmons...it was in his 2003-2004 NBA preview:
Antoine's best quality doubled as his worst quality: His unwavering belief that he's the best player on the floor in every game. That's fine when you're playing in Boston, but watch what happens in Dallas -- in close games, much like Van Exel did last spring, he'll keep launching shots that should have gone to better scorers.

In retrospect, that sums up the Walker era in Dallas. Houston doesn't need versatility; they need a Kurt Thomas type...a good rebounder who can knock down the open 15-18 footer. Toine wouldn't be a good fit.

I honestly don't know where he would be a good fit because the Celts have a promising young player at his position. For my money, his plight is the most fascinating sub-plot in FA...I'd pay the see the look on his face when he finds out that he has to play for the MLE.

[chumdawg]

Originally posted by: grndmstr_c

Cause we all watched him f'up the team 2 years ago. Dumping him on Atlanta was the single biggest reason the Mavs were able to overcome the loss of the eventual MVP to improve their regular season record last year. He's got talent, no question. He should be one of the best role-player types in the league, but the unavoidable reality is that he consistently does such a horrible job of recognizing and playing within his own abilities that even bad teams are better off without him.

You sure it wasn't dumping Antawn Jamison?

Let's not blame AW for that horrendously poor combination of parts that was the '04 Dallas Mavericks.

Maybe it will do Antoine good to...I don't know...play with a center?

[kg_veteran]

I can't wait to see Walker suit up in his Rockets uniform. Adding him to the Rockets doesn't tip the scales in their favor any more than adding him to the Mavericks tipped the scales in Dallas' favor.

[chumdawg]

There is a big difference in AW being added to the Houston roster and in his being added to ours. Here he was redundant, for the most part. There he fills a need.

Unless...you think they were doing just fine with Ryan Bowen?

[fin4life]

Although #8 may not work out, Houston knows that they need a third scorer. Mike James, Bobby Sura, or Jon Barry ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH. Those kind of guys are options number 5-7 on good teams. If Yao or t-mac are not scoring 25+ each.... they cant win. A guy like Henderson to start at PF will not get it done for them. They need to get 15-18 ppg from their PF night in and night out. Walker is capable of that, but he tends to take it too far.

[kg_veteran]

No, I think they would be better off with Juwan Howard than with Walker. Juwan Howard, from what I understand, will be back at PF for the Rockets next year. I don't think Walker is an upgrade over Howard for the Rockets.

[grndmstr_c]

You sure it wasn't dumping Antawn Jamison?

Well, let's see. Antawn had a net +/- of +2.9 with the Mavs, Antoine had a net +/- of -7.6. Yeah, I'm pretty sure it wasn't dumping Jamison.

Let's not blame AW for that horrendously poor combination of parts that was the '04 Dallas Mavericks.

No, let's blame him. It was Antoine's unwillingness to play within himself, combined with Nellie's crappy handling of the situation, that were primarily responsible for that team underachieving the way it did.

There is a big difference in AW being added to the Houston roster and in his being added to ours. Here he was redundant, for the most part. There he fills a need.

Houston may have needs at PF, but you're kidding yourself if you think Walker is even close to being a good fit for them. You watched that Houston series. Did you really find yourself sitting there thinking, "man, it's a good thing that team doesn't have a PF who can come in and jack up threes at a 32% clip, shoot midrange jumpers even less efficiently than that, play the roll of resident turnover machine, blow a bunch of layups, and pout on the bench when he gets yanked for sucking. Mavs would really be in trouble then"?

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally posted by: chumdawg
There is a big difference in AW being added to the Houston roster and in his being added to ours. Here he was redundant, for the most part. There he fills a need.

Unless...you think they were doing just fine with Ryan Bowen?

Their starting PF is Juwan Howard. He was just injured during the playoffs.

[chumdawg]

GMC-- Why in the world would Houston be interested in him, do you think?

[grndmstr_c]

Mabye because they haven't had him before? I honestly don't know why any contending team would be interested in him.

[birdsanctuary]

Great Pick up for the RoX - A VOLUME SHOOTER

[chumdawg]

Originally posted by: grndmstr_c
Mabye because they haven't had him before? I honestly don't know why any contending team would be interested in him.

It's hard to imagine they'd be less informed about Walker than any of us would be.

[grndmstr_c]

It's hard to imagine they'd be less informed about Walker than any of us would be.

Is it hard to imagine that Nellie was less informed about Walker two years ago than we currently are?

Team's make questionable personnel decisions all the time. I'll be happy to change my opinions if the results on the court dictate I should (in fact, that's precisely why I have such a low opinion of Toine now; I wasn't always so dismissive of his value), but hedging on something I'm pretty damn confident about just because somebody makes the counter bet? That's a different story.

[chumdawg]

Was Walker a +7.1 in his last year with the Celtics, before coming to Dallas?

[grndmstr_c]

And then he came to Dallas, to a far superior team where he was handed a starting job and heavy minutes with an opportunity to play with one of his good friends and a pair of guys who would go on to finish first and third in MVP voting the next year, and sucked the life out of the Mavs' season. He then followed that up with a performance so impressive this year that the former all-star who should have been in the prime of his career the last couple years is now going to have to accept the MLE.

What have you done for me lately, Toine?

[chumdawg]

I think we can all agree that Dallas was not the best place for Walker to be. Not enough balls to go around here. Not enough power forward positions either. It might be hard on any player to be moved around everywhere from point forward to center in the course of one season.

'Toine just needs to find his niche, that's all. But I think it's safe to say that the situations in Dallas and Houston are so markedly different that if the Employee does indeed wind up there, any analysis of his time here is close to worthless as a predictor of his success or failure there.

[kg_veteran]

The situations are very different, and I agree that Antoine needs to find his niche, but I'm not sure that he's going to find his niche with a championship contender. Antoine is an inefficient offensive player and a subpar defender who ends up handling the ball a bunch and taking a lot of shots, wherever he goes. That's not a recipe for success.

[madape]

I'd rather have Walk in Houston than in Sacramento. He just seems like too perfect a fit for Adelman's offense.

But still, he will help the Rockets. Just think of the series with the Mavericks and replace Scott Pagett and Ryan Bowen's production with a guy who can put up 20/10/6 on any given night.

[grndmstr_c]

I'd happily saddle Houston with a guy who will put up 20 points on 24 shots, pull down 10 rebounds by grabbing a couple away from Yao, and dish 6 assists to his team and 4 to ours. Sounds fantastic.

[dirno2000]

Could Walker actually get more then the MLE...from Chad Ford:

Rockets: They also have been wooing Walker, hoping that Boston would be willing to take a player or two in the last year of their deals to facilitate a sign-and-trade. The Rockets have a number of tradable assets in the last year of their contracts, including David Wesley, Clarence Weatherspoon, Moochie Norris and Vin Baker. Stromile Swift and Bobby Simmons also have been targets.

Maybe Carrol Dawson doesn't get league pass...

[DevinHarriswillstart]

HAhahaha sign and trade. I hope they give him a big fact contract.

[aexchange]

Originally posted by: madape
I'd rather have Walk in Houston than in Sacramento. He just seems like too perfect a fit for Adelman's offense.

But still, he will help the Rockets. Just think of the series with the Mavericks and replace Scott Pagett and Ryan Bowen's production with a guy who can put up 20/10/6 on any given night.

yeah i think of the series that takes mcgrady off nowitzki and puts walker on him instead. nowitzki lits the dimwit up for 35 pts a game and the mavs win in 6 games instead of 7. i'd be far more scared of them adding someone like webber than walker. webber has the requisite skills to take houston over the top, walker is a big pile of crap.

[grndmstr_c]

I'm of the opinion that Webber is about as worthless as Walker at this point. Walker without a brain (congenital) = Webber without a leg.

I'll be legitimately concerned if they land SAR or Reggie Evans. Evans, moreso, since he'd give them something they don't otherwise have at the PF position, and I view him as a player on the way up.

[kg_veteran]

Evans would be a tremendous fit in Houston. He'd be just the kind of guy Yao needs beside him in the paint.

Scary thought, GMC, scary thought.