Cassell might be a fit with Mavs next season - Page 3 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Jet Terry · 02-26-2006, 01:30 AM

I'm just looking out for the mavs. Cassell's energy level stinks. What he brings is some execution in the half court set. Yes you are being a smartass and I don't want that cancer near our team. I wouldn't trade anyone for Cassell on this team.

Arne · 02-26-2006, 05:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jet Terry

I'm just looking out for the mavs. Cassell's energy level stinks. What he brings is some execution in the half court set. Yes you are being a smartass and I don't want that cancer near our team. I wouldn't trade anyone for Cassell on this team.

Cancers usually never win a championship.

Jet Terry · 02-26-2006, 05:33 AM

Cassell was a cancer back than to. Lucky he had great players around him like Kenny Smith, Robert Horry, Olajuwon, Mario Elie, and Clyde Drexler. They were all winners. Cassell came off the bench so I guess he couldn't have effected chemistry that badly. He was also much more active back than. Now he has slowed down tremendously.

Arne · 02-26-2006, 06:04 AM

Great players like Mario Elie and Kenny Simth......

Sam Cassel over his career: 16 points and 6 assists per game in 30 minutes.

Kenny Smith over his career:12 points and 5 assists per game in 30 minutes.

Mario Elie over his career: 8 points, 2 rebounds and 2 assists per game in 25 minutes.

Ok, I could except that Horry is a great player, since he has so many championships, but over his career: 7 points, 5 rebounds and 2 assists in 25 minutes per game.

Jet Terry · 02-26-2006, 06:20 AM

Cassell's ego has grown a lot since than. He now won't accept coming off the bench (a role that he should do). Cassell fits best as a 6th man since he is a liability on defense. Also Devin Harris seems to be in a slump right now and is losing trust with Avery. As great as he looks sometimes other times he is out of control and his defense on Mike James was a little soft as well. Dallas needs someone quick like Jason Terry to run fastbreaks. Cassell might be an equal shooter and a somewhat better passer (though I wouldn't say it is his strong suit either) he lacks in a lot of other categories similar to Bradley ironically. Hustle, energy, defense, and attitude. Those things are needed for the mavs to have a chance for a championship.

Arne · 02-26-2006, 06:38 AM

Bradley and Cassell both lack defense, hustle, energy and attitude. Kenny Smith and Mario Elie were GREAT players...OK...

No need to have a discussion when someone's ignorant like this.

Thespiralgoeson · 02-26-2006, 07:44 AM

The Rockets won 2 titles because Hakeem was the best player in the NBA when Jordan retired. Drexler was a great sidekick. That's it and that's all. Kenny, Elie, and Cassell were all role-players.

Sam Cassell has two championships... And this means what exactly? You know, Devean George and Derek Fisher both have three championships.

You're both wrong. Jet; Kenny, Elie, and even Horry are hardly what I'd call "great." Arne; While I wouldn't go as far as to call Sam a cancer, he definitely does have some serious baggage.

Arne · 02-26-2006, 10:09 AM

Ok what exactly is his baggage?

Did he mess it up in Minnesota? Ohh... they are missing him like hell over there and it's clear that Sprewell was the cancer if there was one.

Has he stunk it up in LA? Don't think so, the Clippers are gonna make the Playoffs. - That should show you how much of an cancer he is.

jthig32 · 02-26-2006, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

The Rockets won 2 titles because Hakeem was the best player in the NBA when Jordan retired. Drexler was a great sidekick. That's it and that's all. Kenny, Elie, and Cassell were all role-players.

Sam Cassell has two championships... And this means what exactly? You know, Devean George and Derek Fisher both have three championships.

You're both wrong. Jet; Kenny, Elie, and even Horry are hardly what I'd call "great." Arne; While I wouldn't go as far as to call Sam a cancer, he definitely does have some serious baggage.

If you don't think Cassell played a major role in the Houston Championships then you simply weren't watching.....

Cassell's undermanned Milwaukee team almost took out the Pacers in the '99-'00 season, the same Pacers that rolled to the Finals after that series. Cassell turned Garnett into an MVP and took the Wolves to the Conference Finals two years ago. Cassell was aquired by the Clips, and, with very few other changes, AND NO COREY MAGGETTE, they're having their best season in 15 years.

How is this all coincidence?

dude1394 · 02-26-2006, 10:39 AM

The only thing I can't understand with cassell is why he keeps getting moved? There just has to be something there. I don't know if he's a cancer or what, but there just has to be something there.

The Crippler · 02-26-2006, 11:30 AM

i think he annoys the heck out of his team, fellow players, front office with his constant talking. On the court, in the media, you name it, you can get a good soundbite off of the alien. I think they get sick of him and move him on b/c he is easy to move, being a PG and a damn good overall player. Teams will always take a shot on that combo, even if he is a problem.

I personally don't want him anywhere near the Mavs, but I also thought the same about Stack and that didn't work out the way I thought it was going to.

Arne · 02-26-2006, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Crippler

i think he annoys the heck out of his team, fellow players, front office with his constant talking. On the court, in the media, you name it, you can get a good soundbite off of the alien. I think they get sick of him and move him on b/c he is easy to move, being a PG and a damn good overall player. Teams will always take a shot on that combo, even if he is a problem.

I personally don't want him anywhere near the Mavs, but I also thought the same about Stack and that didn't work out the way I thought it was going to.

I don't think that is the reason he got traded. I mean, do you know how much Darrell Armstrong is talking all the time? And I don't mind that a bit.

I even once read that Sam practised alone in front of a super market during his childhood days, since his mother was working there. And on this little court was Sam "I Am", constantly talking to imaginary fellow players...

jthig32 · 02-26-2006, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

The only thing I can't understand with cassell is why he keeps getting moved? There just has to be something there. I don't know if he's a cancer or what, but there just has to be something there.

Well, I know for a fact that Don Nelson himself has admitted that he misjudged Cassell in his little time here, for what that's worth.

I need to find my ESPN the Mag with the Article on Cassell. It was really good.

Jet Terry · 02-26-2006, 02:46 PM

You remember when Sam Cassell got in Flip Saunders face when he got benched? That is why I don't want a selfish player like Cassell on my team.

Thespiralgoeson · 02-26-2006, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

If you don't think Cassell played a major role in the Houston Championships then you simply weren't watching.....

Cassell's undermanned Milwaukee team almost took out the Pacers in the '99-'00 season, the same Pacers that rolled to the Finals after that series. Cassell turned Garnett into an MVP and took the Wolves to the Conference Finals two years ago. Cassell was aquired by the Clips, and, with very few other changes, AND NO COREY MAGGETTE, they're having their best season in 15 years.

How is this all coincidence?

You bet your ass I watched the Rockets win those titles. He played a role, no doubt. But I think you're nuts if you think Cassell "turned Garnett into an MVP" Garnett played the same that year as he does every year. The team was just better that year. And yes, Sam was a big part of that, but I hardly think that it HE "took" the Wolves to the WCF. That was Garnett. Cassell was there last season was he not? And what did the Wolves do?

The Clips? He's had a positive impact no doubt.

But that's just the way he seems to do things. He's like Larry Brown. He comes in, has a positive impact initially, but then he wears out his welcome and forces his team to trade him because they just can't stand him anymore.

Arne; If you don't think he has baggage, you're kidding yourself. He's just too damn arrogant. Dude hit the nail on the head. Why the hell does he keep getting moved?

Jet Terry · 02-26-2006, 11:49 PM

Not only is Cassell a lot slower now but he is likely to get injured due to his age. Last year he couldn't even stay healthy. This is the end for Cassell and a 2 year contract is too much for him. I wouldn't think it would work with him replacing Armstrong either because he would be a distraction to the team off the court.

Arne · 02-27-2006, 04:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

You bet your ass I watched the Rockets win those titles. He played a role, no doubt.

But I think you're nuts if you think Cassell "turned Garnett into an MVP" Garnett played the same that year as he does every year. The team was just better that year. And yes, Sam was a big part of that, but I hardly think that it HE "took" the Wolves to the WCF. That was Garnett. Cassell was there last season was he not? And what did the Wolves do?

The Clips? He's had a positive impact no doubt.

But that's just the way he seems to do things. He's like Larry Brown. He comes in, has a positive impact initially, but then he wears out his welcome and forces his team to trade him because they just can't stand him anymore.

Arne; If you don't think he has baggage, you're kidding yourself. He's just too damn arrogant. Dude hit the nail on the head. Why the hell does he keep getting moved?

Ok, first point goes in favor of jthig32.

And as to "turned Garnett into an MVP: You just admit it yourself. Garnett couldn't do anything alone, as you can see right now, and Sam helped him to be the MVP by just making the team a good team. MVP=stats+record, Garnett only had the stats, but that year he got the record handed to him by Sam. Perfect exemple: If it hadn't been for Sam to get injured in the conference finals, they would've been the champion that year.

And yes I do think that without Sam Cassel that team would've ended the season with one of their well-known first-round-defeats...

Then you come to talk about the year afterwards. - I mean seriously, if you have to take that year as an argument, I just don't get it... First of all, Sam had injury problems all season long and the Timberwolves organisation was stupid enough to let freaking egomaniac Troy Hudson run the point whenever Sam would've been able to play...

Sam didn't get any chance to prove himself that year because of a) injury problems b) stupid management/coaching (we all know now how wrong they were to let him go...) c) someone's descission to let Troy Hudson run the point.

And seriously this team was doomed from the start, since Latrell "I've got to feed my family" Spreewell became the perfect cancer that year.

So lets sum it all up: First he makes Garnett the MVP, then he has bad luck with his injury's, then he gets totally disrespected by the whole organisation (and it must be clear by now that that was a failure...), then they trade him and as soon as he gets to Clipper land, this joke of the league becomes all of the sudden (and without Maggette for msot of their season) a playoff team.

He was in no way a cancer in those years, that's for sure.

Thespiralgoeson · 02-27-2006, 04:18 AM

The Wolves were a 50 win team before Sam was there. He helped the team, definitely, but you act like he was the only guy there who deserves any credit for the Wolves improving. I think the addition of Spree, and the elevated play of Wally and Hudson played a pretty big part as well. Kevin Garnett made Kevin Garnett the MVP. Sam was part of a very good supporting cast that one year.

And while Spree was definitely the biggest headcase there, as I recall, Sam was also pretty unhappy about the money the Wolves offered him, and he certainly didn't help the situation in the lockerroom.

Again, I never said Sam was a cancer. But I do think it's very clear that he's got some baggage. He's definitely got one hell of an ego. If he came here, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he were to bitch about coming off the bench should Devin be the starter.

Jet Terry · 02-27-2006, 04:19 AM

Lmao at you saying ONLY Sprewell was a cancer last year. Cassell had equal part of it and I believe the organization actually had more problems with Cassell than Sprewell believe it or not. Cassell is an ego maniac. Also he declining quickly from 2 years ago. By the time we get him (next year) he wil be a spare like Gary Payton is for the Heat.

Arne · 02-27-2006, 04:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jet Terry

Lmao at you saying ONLY Sprewell was a cancer last year. Cassell had equal part of it and I believe the organization actually had more problems with Cassell than Sprewell believe it or not. Cassell is an ego maniac. Also he declining quickly from 2 years ago. By the time we get him (next year) he wil be a spare like Gary Payton is for the Heat.

You're such an ignorant asshole, it's not even funny anymore... You're saying the exact things you said when all this Cassell discussions started, even though you were proven wrong over and over again during your "reasoning"...

Jet Terry · 02-27-2006, 04:27 AM

The Clippers have a lot of talent. One of the best frontcourts in the nba but their guards (including Cassell) don't do what is necessary for them to be a championship threat. The mavs beat the Clippers this year because Terry was able to slow down Cassell's penetration and easier to guard. I guess you like Cassell so much that you don't see him slowing down.

jthig32 · 02-27-2006, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jet Terry

The Clippers have a lot of talent. One of the best frontcourts in the nba but their guards (including Cassell) don't do what is necessary for them to be a championship threat. The mavs beat the Clippers this year because Terry was able to slow down Cassell's penetration and easier to guard. I guess you like Cassell so much that you don't see him slowing down.

IF the Clippers have so much talent, why didn't they do anything last year? They had the same frontcourt last year, except they had a healthy Maggette and they had Bobby Simmons. Now Simmons is gone, and Maggette has been hurt all year. Your refusal to admit that Cassell is the major reason the Clips have turned things around is laughable.

Bookit · 02-27-2006, 09:28 AM

Cassell has been a very good player throughout his career, BUT his legs are fading fast. He has Finley syndrome in a couple of areas. He doesn't drive to the hoop his jumpshot is completely absent about every other game. I watched that Clipper/Laker game the other night and it was one of Sams "tired" games. He was a complete non factor and just pretended to be a part of the game. Bottom line is the guy is old and getting older. His skills show up every third game now and will get worse from here. He should be a bench player and nothing more.

Five-ofan · 02-27-2006, 09:40 AM

He shows up every third game? He averages around 17 6.5 and 4. So you mean he comes up with 50 19 and 12 every third game? He isnt quite as good as he was when he was in minny(he was the best pg in the nba) but he is still very very good.

Arne · 02-27-2006, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bookit

Cassell has been a very good player throughout his career, BUT his legs are fading fast. He has Finley syndrome in a couple of areas. He doesn't drive to the hoop his jumpshot is completely absent about every other game. I watched that Clipper/Laker game the other night and it was one of Sams "tired" games. He was a complete non factor and just pretended to be a part of the game. Bottom line is the guy is old and getting older. His skills show up every third game now and will get worse from here. He should be a bench player and nothing more.

First of all Sam has almost gotten to the line as many times this season as Finley had throughout last season. It just makes you wonder what exactly you mean...

Here some stats:
Sam Cassell:
This season Sam gets to the line 4.5 times a game.
Five seasons ago Sam got to the line 4.2 times a game.
His career average of getting to the line is 4.3 times a game.

You see, Sam is averaging more freethrow attempts this season than over his career.

Jason Terry:
This season Terry gets to the line 2.6 times a game.
Five seasons ago Terry got to the line 4.3 times a game.
His career average of getting to the line is 3.1 times per game.

You see, actually Terry is getting to the line fewer times than over his career or a couple of seasons ago, not Sam...

Makes you wonder if you should rather check the stats or get influenced by a couple of games you see, doesn't it... And in that game you mentioned, Sam actually played bad, but his +/- for that game was +25, meanwhile all the other Clipper point guards combined for -8...

jthig32 · 02-27-2006, 11:26 AM

Good stats Arne, but don't expect them to make a differene.

Clearly Cassell is just an old jump shooter now.......

Jet Terry · 02-27-2006, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bookit

Cassell has been a very good player throughout his career, BUT his legs are fading fast. He has Finley syndrome in a couple of areas. He doesn't drive to the hoop his jumpshot is completely absent about every other game. I watched that Clipper/Laker game the other night and it was one of Sams "tired" games. He was a complete non factor and just pretended to be a part of the game. Bottom line is the guy is old and getting older. His skills show up every third game now and will get worse from here. He should be a bench player and nothing more.

Great post. Also don't forget the Clippers added Cuttino Mobley. The Clippers lineup of last year had one of the worse starting point guards in the league so obviously Cassell would be better than that. Elton Brand and Chris Kaman have raised the level of their games as well. Bobby Simmons seemed to give Dallas the most trouble last year but against everyone else was nothing special. So I guess Cassell>Bronson. Big deal.

Drbio · 02-27-2006, 12:51 PM

Nice effort Arne....too bad it will be overlooked by the mindless.

Arne · 02-27-2006, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

The Wolves were a 50 win team before Sam was there. He helped the team, definitely, but you act like he was the only guy there who deserves any credit for the Wolves improving. I think the addition of Spree, and the elevated play of Wally and Hudson played a pretty big part as well. Kevin Garnett made Kevin Garnett the MVP. Sam was part of a very good supporting cast that one year.

I'm afraid you really don't remember that good about what happened in that year! Troy Hudson played only 29 games and Szczerbiack played only 28 games. During the playoffs Hudson was injured and Szczerbiack only played 12 out of 18. And only 24 minutes per game.

Sam Cassel made Kevin Garnett the MVP.

jthig32 · 02-27-2006, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jet Terry

Great post. Also don't forget the Clippers added Cuttino Mobley. The Clippers lineup of last year had one of the worse starting point guards in the league so obviously Cassell would be better than that. Elton Brand and Chris Kaman have raised the level of their games as well. Bobby Simmons seemed to give Dallas the most trouble last year but against everyone else was nothing special. So I guess Cassell>Bronson. Big deal.

So many things, so many things....

Marco Jaric started about half of the Clips games, and he was good enough for the TWolves to trade for, so he must not have been THAT bad....

I like how it's just coincidence that Brand and Kaman have raised their games this year..

As far as Simmon not being anything special, he was the Clips third leading scorer, and Maggette was their second leading scorer. They've lost both of them this year, and are having an ENORMOUS turnaround.

Also, to your comment about Simmons being not that special, here's his numbers last year:

16.4 PPG 2.3 Ast 5.9 RB 46.7 FG% 43.5% 3PT% 84.6 FT%

And HERE are a certain beloved Mav's stats this year (btw, I started to use last year's stats, but that would have been even MORE in my favor)

16.6 PPG 3.9 Ast 1.9 RB 46% FG% 43.3% 3PT% 76% FT%

I contend that if anyone called this Mav "nothing special" you would have a cow......

Jet Terry · 02-27-2006, 02:00 PM

Marco Jaric sucks though I could see why Minnesota wanted to get rid of Cassell. The Clippers had no point guard last year. Cassell>Bronson and Derrick Martin if you ask me.

Thespiralgoeson · 02-27-2006, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arne

I'm afraid you really don't remember that good about what happened in that year! Troy Hudson played only 29 games and Szczerbiack played only 28 games. During the playoffs Hudson was injured and Szczerbiack only played 12 out of 18. And only 24 minutes per game.

Sam Cassel made Kevin Garnett the MVP.

Admittedly, I didn't watch the Wolves much that year. I just remember hearing people talking about Hudson and Wally "stepping up." I do know that Spree played a major role. And I also know that Sam sure as hell didn't help the situation in the lockerroom last year.

But really, it's not even about Sam Cassell. I just don't buy the idea that any one player can "make" someone else the MVP. Sam Cassell helped the Wolves win games. But Kevin Garnett made Kevin Garnett the MVP.

Jet Terry · 02-27-2006, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arne

You're such an ignorant asshole, it's not even funny anymore... You're saying the exact things you said when all this Cassell discussions started, even though you were proven wrong over and over again during your "reasoning"...

My reasoning was ignored the first time so I had to bring to your attention again. This proves my point on people being disrespectful on this board.

Bookit · 02-27-2006, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arne

First of all Sam has almost gotten to the line as many times this season as Finley had throughout last season. It just makes you wonder what exactly you mean...

Here some stats:
Sam Cassell:
This season Sam gets to the line 4.5 times a game.
Five seasons ago Sam got to the line 4.2 times a game.
His career average of getting to the line is 4.3 times a game.

You see, Sam is averaging more freethrow attempts this season than over his career.

Jason Terry:
This season Terry gets to the line 2.6 times a game.
Five seasons ago Terry got to the line 4.3 times a game.
His career average of getting to the line is 3.1 times per game.

You see, actually Terry is getting to the line fewer times than over his career or a couple of seasons ago, not Sam...

Makes you wonder if you should rather check the stats or get influenced by a couple of games you see, doesn't it... And in that game you mentioned, Sam actually played bad, but his +/- for that game was +25, meanwhile all the other Clipper point guards combined for -8...

My point is that Cassell doesn't go to the hoop not that he doesn't shoot free throws. Sam is very crafty at flopping and getting defender up in the air to draw fouls. But check the Clipper boards. They are always complaining about how little he drives to the hoop.

And I am a little too lazy to check on Cassell's injury situation the last few years but he seems injured quite a bit. Just my opinion but the Mavs shouldn't sign him unless he is a backup.

Arne · 02-28-2006, 04:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Admittedly, I didn't watch the Wolves much that year. I just remember hearing people talking about Hudson and Wally "stepping up." I do know that Spree played a major role. And I also know that Sam sure as hell didn't help the situation in the lockerroom last year.

But really, it's not even about Sam Cassell. I just don't buy the idea that any one player can "make" someone else the MVP. Sam Cassell helped the Wolves win games. But Kevin Garnett made Kevin Garnett the MVP.

Lets just say that Sam Cassell was absolutely the most important part of Garnett's supporting cast. And was crucial for the Timberwolves that year.

Sam got frustrated last year, because of injuries and the coaching staff. But really, he WAS right on that one. He'd been by far the better solution for the PG spot, but the coach let Troy Hudson run the point. The second thing was that Flip Saunders got sacked that year and that was also one of the reason Sam was unhappy. - Once again a stupid descission by the management, as Kevin Garnett said as well (is Garnett a cancer for saying something like that as well?).

But then again, we're not talking about a Terry-Cassell trade. We're talking about signing Cassell as soon as we think Terry wants to much money.

There should be no reason for Sam to become a cancer here, if HE signs with the team. Cassell has stated quite a couple of times that he'd like to play with Dirk and I really haven't seen him being a cancer on a good team yet. Because that is what it's about, as long as we're a good team, only selfish players like Walker become a cancer, not guys like Cassell.

@Bookit, as far as I can remember, Sam only had serious injury problems during last season, this season he's been just fine.

Jet Terry · 02-28-2006, 04:44 AM

Losing Terry would be a big loss but I guess Dallas will still be elite with Cassell and hopefully improving Devin Harris. The question isn't has Cassell been a great player but can he continue to play that way despite his age.

Drbio · 02-28-2006, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jet Terry

Losing Terry would be a big loss but I guess Dallas will still be elite with Cassell and hopefully improving Devin Harris. The question isn't has Cassell been a great player but can he continue to play that way despite his age.

There is a glimmer of hope after all.....

Five-ofan · 02-28-2006, 06:28 PM

solid post jet. That is basically what i have said the WHOLE EFFING THREAD.

Thespiralgoeson · 03-01-2006, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arne

Lets just say that Sam Cassell was absolutely the most important part of Garnett's supporting cast. And was crucial for the Timberwolves that year.

I think that's a fair assessment.

Quote:

There should be no reason for Sam to become a cancer here, if HE signs with the team. Cassell has stated quite a couple of times that he'd like to play with Dirk and I really haven't seen him being a cancer on a good team yet. Because that is what it's about, as long as we're a good team, only selfish players like Walker become a cancer, not guys like Cassell.

Again, I never thought Sam was a cancer, and you're absolutely right about the fact that if he agrees to come here, he'd never complain about money. Although, as I've stated before, I do wonder if he'd be unhappy about coming of the bench should Devin be the starter by then.