Mavs register interest in Kings' Martin

[jthig32]

Marc Stein says the Mavs are now willing to move Josh in the right deal:

By Marc Stein

The Sacramento Kings continue to insist that Kevin Martin is not going to be made available to interested teams before the Feb. 18 trading deadline.

The Mavericks, according to NBA front-office sources, continue to tell the Kings that they want a call back if that stance changes.

Sources close to the situation told ESPN.com that Dallas -- reluctant until recently to make Josh Howard available in trade discussions -- is prepared to part with the struggling former All-Star swingman in a deal for Martin.

The Kings, though, have been telling teams that they are not ready to field offers for Martin, determined to give his fledging backcourt partnership with hot-shot rookie Tyreke Evans an extended period of evaluation.

If that position changes between now and the Feb. 18 trading deadline, Dallas is expected to be one of the league's most determined Martin suitors.

The Sacramento Bee's Sam Amick recently listed Houston, Toronto, Cleveland and Phoenix as teams tracking Martin.

It remains to be seen whether the Kings will bow to that interest in the next few weeks or if they’ll become more open to the idea of trading Martin if they hear that they can also shed another one of their long-term contracts -- such as Andres Nocioni or Beno Udrih -- in the process.

One hypothetical trade scenario could see Dallas offer Howard, Drew Gooden, J.J. Barea and cash to the Kings for Martin and Nocioni. That, however, is a lot of long-term salary for the Mavs to add. It's also not known if a combination of payroll relief, Barea and the opportunity to resurrect Howard's career would ultimately be enough to satisfy Sacramento even if Dallas was willing to take on Nocioni as well.

Such a swap, though, would raise the possibility of the Mavs reacquiring Gooden. If the Kings waived him immediately, Gooden could re-sign with Dallas as long as he waited 30 days after his release instead of signing elsewhere, just as Antonio McDyess did last season with Detroit.

It's believed that the Mavericks could also join the bidding for Philadelphia's Andre Iguodala and Washington's Caron Butler by putting Howard and his cap-friendly contract (next season's $11.8 million salary is a team option) on the table.

But there is some sentiment within the organization to keep Howard along with Erick Dampier (whose $13.1 million salary next season is fully unguaranteed) for the rest of this season, preserving them as a combo-pack of assets for an offseason trade splash.

[Dirkenstien]

Very interesting.

I'm curious where everyone rates these players in order of preference.

For me I'm thinking Iguadola, Butler, Martin but I haven't seen a lot of Martin. From what I've heard he's a fantastic offensive player but lacks on the defensive end a bit. Both Iggy and Butler have size and can lay down some stout D, which is what I'm really looking for. Placing another solid defensive player besive Marion on the wing would give us a pretty dang good perimeter defense.

[jthig32]

I would have Butler and Martin way ahead of Iguadola. Not as players overall, but based on what this team needs. We already have Quinton Ross rotting away on the bench. He can be a defensive stopper and play when we need the extra defensive wing player.

I don't really think Iguadola does all that much to help this offense.

My biggest reservation on Martin is his inability to stay healthy. My biggest reservation on Butler is that he's not a shooting guard and probably completely incapable of guarding shooting guards.

Butler has a much more palatable contract than Martin or Iggy.

In a vacuum I'd much rather have Butler than either of the other two, but I just don't see how he plays next to Marion. So give me Kevin Martin.

[Thomas86]

Iggy (I don't have to explain)

Martin (Pure scorer)

Butler (Tuff as nails)


If the Mavs are able to get any of these players I think it would improve the team, Martin would take alot of pressure of Dirk but whon't help on defense, Butler is a little bit like Stephen Jackson but not the chucker and head case like Jackson was and still is, I don't know much about Iggy but I do know that's he's not scared of taking the big shot.

[mavsfan4lyfe201]

butler is def not what we need. not now at least, with marion gettin paid for 5 years.

iggy is obviously the best we can get..but martin is seeming more likely i guess..

cant complain with either, happy to see the rumors and trade talk growing

check out espn's rumors, those are the guys that done lie.

[Underdog]

Skill-wise, Martin seems like more of a replacement for Terry than Howard.

How would minutes be divided between Martin/JET, especially when Martin plays better on both ends of the floor?

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Skill-wise, Martin seems like more of a replacement for Terry than Howard.

How the minutes be divided between Martin/JET, especially when Martin plays better on both ends of the floor?

Well first of all, I don't really equate Martin to either one of them. Martin is a better shooter than Jet and a better slasher than Josh (9+ FT's a game makes me drool).

He's also tall enough to play SF depending on the matchup, especially considering the defensive flexibility that Marion and Kidd give you. I think there'd be matchups where a Dirk/Marion/Martin/Terry/Kidd five some doesn't kill you defensively.

In more traditional matchups, I do agree that he'd probably push Jet closer to a real 6th man role, meaning he probably wouldn't finish games.

But really, when you're talking about acquiring an offensive talent like Martin, does it really matter whose minutes he's truly replacing?

[bernardos70]

I don't get why Butler isn't what we need now. He's a 2. Marion's a 3. Caron has a jumpshot. He can drive. Marion can mostly finish. I don't see a huge overlap of skills that would make either one redundant as a Mav.

I don't see Iguodala as the best we can get either (obviously I'd rather have Butler), but I see Martin as a better fit for his jumpshot (akin to what UD says). My wishlist comes in this order:

Butler
Martin
Iguodala

[sefant77]

With Martin you have to take Noci too and he has 2/13 left in the summer.

Martin/Terry together is failure in defense, thats like Barea/Terry, but at least there is a chance they outscore...

I take Iggy/Brand any day over Martin/Noci.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Well first of all, I don't really equate Martin to either one of them. Martin is a better shooter than Jet and a better slasher than Josh (9+ FT's a game makes me drool).

He's also tall enough to play SF depending on the matchup, especially considering the defensive flexibility that Marion and Kidd give you. I think there'd be matchups where a Dirk/Marion/Martin/Terry/Kidd five some doesn't kill you defensively.

In more traditional matchups, I do agree that he'd probably push Jet closer to a real 6th man role, meaning he probably wouldn't finish games.

But really, when you're talking about acquiring an offensive talent like Martin, does it really matter whose minutes he's truly replacing?

I agree - offensively it seems like Martin could replace Howard, Terry AND Barea's skillsets at the 2.

Kidd/Martin/Ross/Roddy seem like the right mix of skills in the backcourt - having Terry and/or Barea would be a luxury of depth at the 1/2.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by bernardos70

I don't get why Butler isn't what we need now. He's a 2. Marion's a 3. Caron has a jumpshot. He can drive. Marion can mostly finish. I don't see a huge overlap of skills that would make either one redundant as a Mav.

I don't see Iguodala as the best we can get either (obviously I'd rather have Butler), but I see Martin as a better fit for his jumpshot (akin to what UD says). My wishlist comes in this order:

Butler
Martin
Iguodala

I completely disagree that Butler is a 2. He never plays the 2 for Washington. He's the biggest of those players. He doesn't have a three point shot.

Most importantly, I think he's way too big to chase around the quicker shooting guards.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by sefant77

With Martin you have to take Noci too and he has 2/13 left in the summer.

Martin/Terry together is failure in defense, thats like Barea/Terry, but at least there is a chance they outscore...

I take Iggy/Brand any day over Martin/Noci.

Yuck. How can you bring up Noci's contract then say you want Brand?

I'm not touching Brand.

[sefant77]

Because Noci is kind of a lame version of Marion or an old Najera on crack, we dont really NEED him. A role player his whole carerer.

Brand is a 20/10/2 career in a slump but the type of player we need. Thats why i take him. With the Kings we wont dump Carroll, with the Sixers we might be able.

[Underdog]

The best thing about Martin is that he's 40% from beyond the arc - that's something this team has severely lacked at the 2 this season (Josh/Terry/Barea combine for 32%).

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Because Noci is kind of a lame version of Marion or an old Najera on crack, we dont really NEED him. A role player his whole carerer.

Brand is a 20/10/2 career in a slump but the type of player we need. Thats why i take him. With the Kings we wont dump Carroll, with the Sixers we might be able.

First of all, there isn't a chance in hell that the Mavs take on Brand and Iggy's contracts. It's just not happening. So it's pretty pointless to debate.

Beyond that, Brand is not "in a slump". He's no longer very good. And he's an undersized PF that can't play any defense. He's like a more expensive version of Drew Gooden that scores a little better. There's no way he plays more than 20 minutes a night for this team, and he's making $51 million over the next three seasons.

You'd be insane to trade anything of any value to Philly for Elton Brand. Again...yuck.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Underdog

The best thing about Martin is that he's 40% from beyond the arc - that's something this team has severely lacked at the 2 this season (Josh/Terry/Barea combine for 32%).

I personally think his ability to get to the FT line is more exciting, but honestly the entire package is tantalizing. His propensity for injury makes we very wary though.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I personally think his ability to get to the FT line is more exciting, but honestly the entire package is tantalizing. His propensity for injury makes we very wary though.

Dirk - 25.5 PPG
Terry - 16.5 PPG
Howard - 12.5 PPG
Marion - 11.6 PPG

Martin's 25.2 PPG would be huge for this team - we'd definitely have our "Robin" on offense. How's Martin's defense these days? Is he at least better than Terry (or a hobbled Josh Howard)? I have to admit that I haven't seen much of him in the past season or 2.

[AO41]

Actually I think a lot of people are underestimating what Nocioni could do for this team as well. He could bring the energy that Gooden brings, maybe not as good of a rebounder, but much better on offense IMO. He can also stretch the floor and hit the 3. I think he would be a good fit to back up Dirk and still have some offense out on the floor. He is also a decent passer.

and if Bare stays

We would have guys from

Puerto Rico
Mexico
Argentina

lol

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Dirk - 25.5 PPG
Terry - 16.5 PPG
Howard - 12.5 PPG
Marion - 11.6 PPG

Martin's 25.2 PPG would be huge for this team - we'd definitely have our "Robin" on offense. How's Martin's defense these days? Is he at least better than Terry (or a hobbled Josh Howard)? I have to admit that I haven't seen much of him in the past season or 2.

He's certainly not very strong defensively, but I don't know that you need a third two-way player when you have Marion and Kidd (and Damp protecting the rim). As I mentioned earlier in the thread, we do have Ross to replace Josh in the role of backup wing defender.

I doubt he's any worse than Jet defensively, and he has a lot of extra length (in both height and arms) that can only help.

[AO41]

for people that are worrying about Martins injuries...if wer giving up Josh for him id that really an argument??

[xrobx]

if we land kevin martin i think we will cruise to a championship. our team lacks scoring. this is a guy capable of putting up 30/40 point games on any given night if dirk is off. he isn't afraid to drive and get to the line. he is a good 3 point threat, an area where the mavs are hurting. the only question is whether or not he can stay healthy, but if he does, watch out.

we don't need butler or brand, we already have dirk and marion at PF and SF. we need a SG. iggy would be good but honestly i'd rather have martin's shooting at this point.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by AO41

for people that are worrying about Martins injuries...if wer giving up Josh for him id that really an argument??

Martin has missed significantly more time over the past three seasons (including this one) than Josh has.

However, the two years previous to that, Martin was much more reliable than Josh.

It's a fair point that Josh is also injury prone, but please realize that Martin has played all of nine games this season.

[AO41]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Martin has missed significantly more time over the past three seasons (including this one) than Josh has.

However, the two years previous to that, Martin was much more reliable than Josh.

It's a fair point that Josh is also injury prone, but please realize that Martin has played all of nine games this season.

was it a hand injury for him this season??

and I realize that, but please realize that Josh in reality has probably played less than that even though he has been on the court.

[Underdog]

My only fear about trading Howard/Gooden/Barea for Martin is that we'd be thin on big men without Gooden. Who backs up Damp? Dirk only works at the 5 against certain lineups - what happens if (god forbid) Damp gets injured?

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Underdog

My only fear about trading Howard/Gooden/Barea for Martin is that we'd be thin on big men without Gooden. Who backs up Damp? Dirk only works at the 5 against certain lineups - what happens if (god forbid) Damp gets injured?

If that trade were to happen I think you'd have to assume that the Kings would cut Gooden (they did so last year, ironically). So you'd have a chance to get him back.

You also have the trade exception to go find another big man as well.

But yes, the Mavs would need to have a plan in place for how to deal with the front court if that trade were to happen.

Personally I think the better question is whether you'd trade Josh and Roddy for Martin.

[AO41]

Originally Posted by Underdog

My only fear about trading Howard/Gooden/Barea for Martin is that we'd be thin on big men without Gooden. Who backs up Damp? Dirk only works at the 5 against certain lineups - what happens if (god forbid) Damp gets injured?

I am guessing they would make another move to sign someone or a minor trade because we would have 2 spots open if that trade happened.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by AO41

I am guessing they would make another move to sign someone or a minor trade because we would have 2 spots open if that trade happened.

3 spots, actually - we only have 14 players on our roster right now.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Personally I think the better question is whether you'd trade Josh and Roddy for Martin.

Kidd is gonna break down sooner or later - unless Calathes is coming back next season, I'd be very hesitant to trade Roddy.

[AO41]

Originally Posted by Underdog

3 spots, actually - we only have 14 players on our roster right now.

well I was thinking that Nocioni wuld be a part of that...soo is i 2 or 3 after that..I know we have one now?? rite

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by AO41

well I was thinking that Nocioni wuld be a part of that...soo is i 2 or 3 after that..I know we have one now?? rite

I still don't see where Nocioni would fit into our lineup - why pay that much for a guy who'd be sitting on the bench between Carroll and Singleton?

[bernardos70]

I guess all the swingmen in the Wizards created an optical illusion. Caron is listed at 6'7" 228lb. The exact same size as Marion.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Kidd is gonna break down sooner or later - unless Calathes is coming back next season, I'd be very hesitant to trade Roddy.

Any word on how Calathes has been doing?

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Any word on how Calathes has been doing?

Not a clue - I tried checking his stats, but it was all Greek to me.


(punny, I know...)

[AO41]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I still don't see where Nocioni would fit into our lineup - why pay that much for a guy who'd be sitting on the bench between Carroll and Singleton?

I think he would get some PT at the 4 too, but not sure

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by jthig32

First of all, there isn't a chance in hell that the Mavs take on Brand and Iggy's contracts. It's just not happening. So it's pretty pointless to debate.

Beyond that, Brand is not "in a slump". He's no longer very good. And he's an undersized PF that can't play any defense. He's like a more expensive version of Drew Gooden that scores a little better. There's no way he plays more than 20 minutes a night for this team, and he's making $51 million over the next three seasons.

You'd be insane to trade anything of any value to Philly for Elton Brand. Again...yuck.

I know that trade isnt likely at all, but i still like to debate over it. And i gonna watch Brand the next years very closely.

About Martin: He doesnt play defense at all. And he is an injury prone. Thats why im a little bit worried about this one. But of course i do Josh-Martin.but pairing Martin with Terry for some time on the court gonna be ugly, specially in the playoffs. Defense wins championships.

Thats why i take Iggy 1:1 over Martin. Iggy has durability, is a package on both end of the court (Iggys defense >> Martins better offense) and you can pair Terry with him.

And Brand isnt done and he showed the last weeks he is still WAY better than Drew Gooden. You doesnt collect 2 blocks over your career playing no or Drew Gooden defense. And like i wrote, thats the trade you can ship out Carrolls 11 mio, so its 40/3 for Brand actually. I take that 29mio he makes more than a kind of useless Nocioni.

Yes i take Martin+Noci for Josh and crap.

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by jthig32

First of all, there isn't a chance in hell that the Mavs take on Brand and Iggy's contracts. It's just not happening. So it's pretty pointless to debate.

Beyond that, Brand is not "in a slump". He's no longer very good. And he's an undersized PF that can't play any defense. He's like a more expensive version of Drew Gooden that scores a little better. There's no way he plays more than 20 minutes a night for this team, and he's making $51 million over the next three seasons.

You'd be insane to trade anything of any value to Philly for Elton Brand. Again...yuck.

Brand can't play defense ? ? Historically he has been a very good defender, and has a 7'5.5" wingspan which has made up for his 6'9" frame. He is known as a player with the strength of Damp. He is in no way undersized to be a PF. He is a player that plays much bigger than he actually is. He is known as a shotblocker because of his strange 9'2" standing reach.
Yes we have been spoiled having a 7' at PF, but Dirk is taller, not smaller than most PF and many centers.
I am not saying that the injuries haven't limited Brand, but he really is on pace to be coming back to form this year -- and he seems to be. I am uncertain if he will ever regain the quick explosive jumping he was blessed with before the injuries.
IMO, He would easily play 30+ minutes as the C/backup PF on this team.

In fact, if they made a deal w/o Damp having to be included I suspect that Dirk/Brand/Damp would be the PF/C rotation for 95% of the time.

As far as contracts go -- that is Marks money.

Would Brand be a flop -- maybe. Would Brand be the inside force that Dirk needs -- maybe. Would Iggy be the SG that this team needs -- maybe.
Do you have enough touches for Dirk, Brand, Iggy, Terry, Marion -- when Kidd is going to have the ball as much as possible????

Lots of questions. I just don't think Brand is done like you seem to. I just think his injury is taking 2 years to get back.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by AO41

I think he would get some PT at the 4 too, but not sure

Between Dirk and Marion, there's no reason Nocioni should EVER play the 4. He'd be a 3, if anything, but both Marion and Martin would cover that position, so there's really no use for him (especially not at $7.5mil/3years!)

[Zki41]

I think getting any guard who is clearly superior to Jason Terry will improve Jason Terry's game when both guards are on the court. Lowering Terry on the pecking order will make him less of a priority for opposing defenses, allowing Terry to find (and hopefully have time time to shoot more accurately) better shots.

A line up with Kidd/Terry/Martin (not to mention Dirk) would spread the floor quite a bit. All four are a threat from 3-point range. Kidd is enough of a threat that teams will get punished if they leave him completely opened. This will help cutters immensely.

[Dirkenstien]

Yeah, Brand would immediately become our best low post option on offense and would probably be as good as or better than Damp on D. Brand is physically very strong and with that crazy wingspan he could his own down low.

With Iggy/Brand we improve our defense and offense across the board. We also get some depth in the front line if we hold on to Damp, and we still have the DUST chip for the off-season

[Kidd Karma]

Interesting headline on this site:

http://rototimes.com/nba/news.php?tq...news&nid=49676

Mavs looking to unload Howard
The Mavericks are dangling Josh Howard as trade bait, according to ESPN.
Our View: Injury prone and often in trouble off-the-court, it's not surprising that the Mavs would want to unload Howard. Of course, those are the same reasons many teams might not want to acquire him. Regardless, Dallas' three top targets appear to be Kevin Martin, Andre Iguodala and Caron Butler. Stay tuned.