Mavs register interest in Kings' Martin

[Dirkenstien]

Originally Posted by Kidd Karma

Interesting headline on this site:

http://rototimes.com/nba/news.php?tq...news&nid=49676

SWEET.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Dirkenstien

Yeah, Brand would immediately become our best low post option on offense and would probably be as good as or better than Damp on D. Brand is physically very strong and with that crazy wingspan he could his own down low.

With Iggy/Brand we improve our defense and offense across the board. We also get some depth in the front line if we hold on to Damp, and we still have the DUST chip for the off-season

Elton Brand is not a center. He absolutely not even remotely capable of giving this team what Damp does defensively.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by bernardos70

I guess all the swingmen in the Wizards created an optical illusion. Caron is listed at 6'7" 228lb. The exact same size as Marion.

What is the point being made here? Are you trying to push the notion that Caron can guard quick shooting guards?

[Dirkenstien]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Elton Brand is not a center. He absolutely not even remotely capable of giving this team what Damp does defensively.

Brand may not be a true center, but he can certainly be a viable option at that position as a back up and I believe he could be just as effective as Damp on the defensive end. He has the tools and he has the instincts, the only thing he lacks at that position is height but with his rediculous standing reach he makes up for it.

[bobatundi]

I don't think Brand can defend as well as Damp...but he would be an upgrade over Gooden. He could provide quality minutes at the backup 4 & 5 spots, maybe 20-30 minutes a game backing Damp & Dirk. Versatile enough to play alongside either of them, giving more substitution flexibility.

[badfish22]

Originally Posted by Thomas86

Iggy (I don't have to explain)

Martin (Pure scorer)

Butler (Tuff as nails)

Those are my rankings as well. I would love to have any of them, but Iggy would fit in great with this team.

[chumdawg]

Sounds like this team is getting ready to get serious!!

[ReDirkulous Tyme]

Just read this article on espndallas.com

http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/nba...ory?id=4848601

I would personally LOVE to get Kevin Martin here for either Jason Terry or Josh Howard. He is the perfect player for the mavs, at 6-7 playing shooting guard he provides size, quickness, shooting, and has the driving/slashing ability. If we kept either Josh or Jason then this could be a piece, in my opinion, at finally putting the Mavs at the Contender status, along with the Lakers, Boston, Orlando, and Cleveland. The thought of JKidd, Kmart, Marion, Dirk, and Damp all on the floor gives me wet dreams....it has been ever since I first saw Martin.

[jthig32]

People wanting Iguodala over Martin confuses me. His best assets are duplicated by Marion. If you're trying to acquire a shooting guard, why are you getting one with the offensive skill set of a small forward?

If we hadn't gotten Marion I'd be all over trying to get Iguodala. But with Marion? Give me the guy that shoots the lights out from long range AND gets to the free throw line.

[left texas]

This is already in another thread.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by left texas

This is already in another thread.

[badfish22]

Originally Posted by jthig32

People wanting Iguodala over Martin confuses me. His best assets are duplicated by Marion. If you're trying to acquire a shooting guard, why are you getting one with the offensive skill set of a small forward?

If we hadn't gotten Marion I'd be all over trying to get Iguodala. But with Marion? Give me the guy that shoots the lights out from long range AND gets to the free throw line.

Iguodala is a better scorer, passer and is more athletic than Marion. Martin would be great, but his lack of defense and strength kinda worry me.

[pepe]

Interesting....I took sometime to pounder the pros and cons of Martin, Butler and Iggy before I posted. I took a look at the adjusted plus and minus for each one for the last 3 years and Iggy and Butler clearly have the better numbers.

Iggy 10.52
Butler 9.23
Martin -3.44

My heart thinks that Martin will be the best offensive option but the fact that he is often injured and his FG% have dropped in the last 2 years made me reluctant to consider him the best option.

Butler is perhaps the easy to adquire taking into consideration that the Wizards are looking to shed payroll and will not be asking the Mavs to take any more additional long term contracts, I just don't know if Caron is truly a SG capable of defending the other teams SG.

Iggy is not the offensive player that Martin is but overall IMO the guy is the best player of the 3 a true SG with great handles, good passer and rebounder and a top perimeter defender a combo of Marion and Iggy will give the Mavs without any doubt the best wing defense in the league, also the guy is only 25, seen to be improving every year and is a respectable 45-46 FG% scorer. Iggy is also the kind of player that teams will be interested to couple with the Dust Chip in case the Mavs decide to go for a blockbuster in the offseason. The issue is what the Mavs will be willing to accept as far as additional contracts, the only way I see Iggy leaving the 76ers is either with Daly or Brand and that is when things get murky.

All things considered Caron looks to be the easiest to adquire and I will not be dissapointed if JHO is all it takes.

But my wish list number one option is Iggy

[kg_veteran]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Sounds like this team is getting ready to get serious!!

Yep.

I've been in favor of a Martin for Howard swap for a while now. I don't think the Mavs can afford to include Gooden unless they are certain he's coming back or have another plan for backup center, because the Mavs are already questionable behind Damp at center with Gooden here. If you could make it Howard/Barea for Martin, I'm MUCH more optimistic about the playoffs. Martin is EXACTLY the sort of second option on offense this team has needed for a while. He can get his own shot, create for others, and shoot the lights out.

[quietsavant]

Double post.

[quietsavant]

KMart- has the ability to take over games with his array of scoring. Can shoot the lights out from the perimeter and beyond the arc. Much better shooter than josh will ever be, much better slasher and willing to put his body on the line. Working with JKidd can only further enhance his talents.
weakness: listed at 185lbs, thus his knack for doing just what we want him to do, makes him injury prone as teams try and send a message.

conclusion: with kmart, we will get out of the gates running and do so fast. Dirk becomes better with someone as capable of scoring as kmart around. Everyone is opened up because of him, and the other teams, SGs are not going to be sitting around on D, they will be in foul trouble trying to take Kmart.

Iggy- This guy is that physical SG. Not much finesse here, this guy is a tweener lebron as far as his physical game taking it to the rim. He knows one speed: KICKASS and then take names. He's cuts in the perimeter and wants to send a message.

Downsides: he's not a pure shooter, so we are looking at a Josh howard type of shooter here, slighty better. He's not as injury prone, but his best contribution may come from him going to the line but not so much from his shooting. A lot of people forget he was and still does play SF for Philly the majority of the time.

Butler: FTs FTs FTs.. the guy is not a SG by any means. he's a SF and gets you buckets by posting up his man and getting those And1s. He's a pretty good shooter and can guard the bigger 2 guards out there. Very Very tough.

downside: how do you rationalize a marion butler pair at the wings?

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by badfish22

Iguodala is a better scorer, passer and is more athletic than Marion. Martin would be great, but his lack of defense and strength kinda worry me.

Ok, but why does it matter that he's a better scorer than Marion? So is Josh. The point is that the team already has two people playing a lot of minutes whose primary contribution is defense. Kidd is another player who brings quality defense.

This team's biggest need is offense, not defense. So I don't see the focus on Iguodala. He would represent a very marginal improvement offensively.

[badfish22]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Ok, but why does it matter that he's a better scorer than Marion? So is Josh. The point is that the team already has two people playing a lot of minutes whose primary contribution is defense. Kidd is another player who brings quality defense.

This team's biggest need is offense, not defense. So I don't see the focus on Iguodala. He would represent a very marginal improvement offensively.

Iggy is just the better player. Martin is injury prone and is more of a risk to not fit in well here. You see what is happening with RJ over in SA, that could happen with Kmart. I could just see him not gelling well with this team.
Iggy is always going to be able to play defense and finish on the break no matter what system he is in. I would like both, because both are better than Josh, but if I had to choose one give me Iggy

[Maverick4124]

Offensively, I would be open to bringing in Martin. He would take some heat off of Dirk. I remember Dirk complained a while ago how he's tired of having to do all the scoring. That would also make Dirk a little more fresh for the Playoffs, which counts. Defensively, idk about Martin.

If Martin is unattainable and it had to come between Iggy and Butler, it's tough, but I would go with Iggy.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...iguodan01.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...butleca01.html

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by badfish22

Iggy is just the better player. Martin is injury prone and is more of a risk to not fit in well here. You see what is happening with RJ over in SA, that could happen with Kmart. I could just see him not gelling well with this team.
Iggy is always going to be able to play defense and finish on the break no matter what system he is in. I would like both, because both are better than Josh, but if I had to choose one give me Iggy

I probably agree that Iguodala might be the slightly better player overall. But Kevin Martin is one of the best pure scorers in the NBA. And he's not just a scorer, he's a very pure shooter. I can't imagine why he would have difficulty fitting into any offense. Comparing him to Richard Jefferson doesn't make any sense.

Defense and finishing on the break is not what we need. We need a real, true second scoring option.

[quietsavant]

Originally Posted by badfish22

Iggy is just the better player. Martin is injury prone and is more of a risk to not fit in well here. You see what is happening with RJ over in SA, that could happen with Kmart. I could just see him not gelling well with this team.
Iggy is always going to be able to play defense and finish on the break no matter what system he is in. I would like both, because both are better than Josh, but if I had to choose one give me Iggy

I see your point, but Iggy excels mostly when you're running. But Kmart takes his man and gets to the line in the half court as well. How do you generate offense with Iggy come playoffs when most good teams lock down and play Lock down, grind it out half court D.

On the flip side, you could also argue how do you lock down teams in the half court with a SG that doesn't play applaudible D as in Kmarts case.

It's a give and take. If you look at Kmarts numbers, this guy has multiple games where he lights several contending teams up for absurd numbers

[ReDirkulous Tyme]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I probably agree that Iguodala might be the slightly better player overall. But Kevin Martin is one of the best pure scorers in the NBA. And he's not just a scorer, he's a very pure shooter. I can't imagine why he would have difficulty fitting into any offense. Comparing him to Richard Jefferson doesn't make any sense.

Defense and finishing on the break is not what we need. We need a real, true second scoring option.

agree 100%

I would love to have either Iggy or Martin on this team. Iggy is reliable, and a great slashing/finisher. In addition, Iggy is great on defense, and the defensive capabilities of Kidd, Marion, and Iggy makes me drool.

HOWEVER

I think Martin is the player that puts this team over the top, potentially. He is one of the purest scorers I have seen outside of the obvious top 4. He is a great shooter, and provides the 3 point shooting that this team needed even when Jet was shooting well with Josh healthy, and this team ESPECIALLY needs that 3 point shooting now. Couple that with the rest of his offensive skills and I think this is a championship caliber team. I also think that, under Carlisle, Kmart would DEFINITELY step up his defense. And a starting 5 of Kidd, Kmart, Marion, Dirk, and Damp I think brings one of the best starting 5's in basketball

[sefant77]

Iggy is just a better overall package.

He missed 6 games in 5,5 years, thats huge. You need to play 100+ games to win the title, i just dont see it with Kevin Martin. Same with Yao, McGrady or Baron, you dont win titles with such players because there is always a huge chance they are going down.

So Martin can score at will. Iggy gives you 10 points less, but WAY better defense, rebouding and passing. We all throw up watching Terry and Barea together at defense, it will be the same with Terry-Martin.

I take durability, rebounding, passing and matching with Terry over better scoring any day. You have Dirk and with Terry and Iggy two 18 points guy and a kickass defense. If you get Martin you get 25 points but how much more your opponent scores with Martin instead of Iggy? A lot...

And if we get Martin and then Bosh with the Dustchip its 2004 all over. Incredible offense and horrible defense. I prefer to become the Pistons than the Suns. Pistons won the title.

[badfish22]

Im hoping all these rumors between the Mavs and Kings maybe make the Sixers make up their minds a little faster. Theres a rumor that they have been considering trading Iggy by himself for cap relief.

[quietsavant]

When all is said and done, there must be a reason why the FO chose to go after Kmart, so convincingly. I put faith in Nellie

[ReDirkulous Tyme]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Iggy is just a better overall package.

He missed 6 games in 5,5 years, thats huge. You need to play 100+ games to win the title, i just dont see it with Kevin Martin. Same with Yao, McGrady or Baron, you dont win titles with such players because there is always a huge chance they are going down.

So Martin can score at will. Iggy gives you 10 points less, but WAY better defense, rebouding and passing. We all throw up watching Terry and Barea together at defense, it will be the same with Terry-Martin.

I take durability, rebounding, passing and matching with Terry over better scoring any day.

And if we get Martin and then Bosh with the Dustchip its 2004 all over. Incredible offense and horrible defense. I prefer to become the Pistons than the Suns. Pistons won the title.

Your comparisons are utterly ridiculous. Martin is in NO way comparable to Yao, McGrady, or Baron. Martin is still young, we don't know what path his career will take yet, there is always the chance that he will gain weight and become less injury prone. Martin allows us to have an absolutely DOMINANT, UNSTOPPABLE offensive team, while still maintaining defense with Ross, Marion, Kidd, and Damp. Martin is EXACTLY what this team needs. And even if we got Bosh, we would be in no way comparable to the Suns when they were at their height. First of all, the Mavs with Bosh and Martin would be FAR more talented in all aspects of the game, PG aside, than the Suns ever were, or will be.

Please watch basketball for awhile longer before even beginning to allude to the comparisons you just made.

[badfish22]

Originally Posted by quietsavant

When all is said and done, there must be a reason why the FO chose to go after Kmart, so convincingly. I put faith in Nellie

Nellie? You mean Donnie? There can only be one Nellie.

[quietsavant]

Originally Posted by badfish22

Nellie? You mean Donnie? There can only be one Nellie.

freudian slip

[jthig32]

At some point Marc updated his article with the following:

UPDATE: One source close to the situation said Friday that the Mavs would have no interest in a Martin deal if the Kings insisted they take on an additional player with a long-term contract such as Nocioni or Udrih.

If the Mavs aren't willing to take on a bad contract then I think the only chance to get Martin is to include Roddy. And I would do that...I think.

I suppose the Kings could be really desperate to unload salary, but I'd have to think someone else would step up and offer salary relief AND some talent for a player of Martin's caliber.

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by mavsfanforlife09

Your comparisons are utterly ridiculous. Martin is in NO way comparable to Yao, McGrady, or Baron. Martin is still young, we don't know what path his career will take yet, there is always the chance that he will gain weight and become less injury prone. Martin allows us to have an absolutely DOMINANT, UNSTOPPABLE offensive team, while still maintaining defense with Ross, Marion, Kidd, and Damp. Martin is EXACTLY what this team needs. And even if we got Bosh, we would be in no way comparable to the Suns when they were at their height. First of all, the Mavs with Bosh and Martin would be FAR more talented in all aspects of the game, PG aside, than the Suns ever were, or will be.

Please watch basketball for awhile longer before even beginning to allude to the comparisons you just made.

I pretty sure i watched more games than you in the last years.

Martin is young AND allready injury plaged. Thats also a result of his game, reckless driving into the paint. He is just a player you cant rely on and with that he is in the same category than a McGrady or Baron. And we need to rely on the health of an important player or its Josh 2.0 all over.

And yes, i still like my Suns comparison. Sure we would have a higher talent level but guess what, everyone else got way better sine the "Suns" years (Lakers, Magic etc).

But again: I take Martin in a trade, of course.

[Nowitzki4President]

I'm not saying it's likely to happen, nor that it should happen. But it is completely possible for us to get two of the three players on our radar. Of our tradeable expiring bait, we have JHo, Gooden, Singleton, Barea, and Ross. That's a combined 18.9 million worth of expirings. Martin is 9.6, Iggy is 12.2, and Butler is 9.7.

We'd be able to do a Josh for one of the player, and a package of Gooden, Barea, Ross/Singleton for another. Or just figure out the other combinations to get 2 of the 3. Take this for example: http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=yjlpuak

That would make:

Damp/Gooden (after the 30 days)
Dirk/TT/Marion
Iggy/Marion
Martin/Terry
Kidd/RoddyB

I love Barea, but this would let Roddy get some minutes. Sadly, I don't think RC is too high on that idea though. We'd also be moving Marion to the bench, which I don't see as bad, because usually vets love to come off the bench, especially since that would match him up against a lot of the reserve guys on other teams, who I think he would dominate. Not to mention a combo of Iggy and Marion defending the dangerous swingmen on other teams excites me.

Just some food for thought.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by jthig32

At some point Marc updated his article with the following:



If the Mavs aren't willing to take on a bad contract then I think the only chance to get Martin is to include Roddy. And I would do that...I think.

I suppose the Kings could be really desperate to unload salary, but I'd have to think someone else would step up and offer salary relief AND some talent for a player of Martin's caliber.

Then I don't see us making any moves including Dalembert or Brand. That means those 3 players are the only ones in our sights, no cancerous tumors of contracts coming with a talented player.

[kg_veteran]

Originally Posted by jthig32

At some point Marc updated his article with the following:



If the Mavs aren't willing to take on a bad contract then I think the only chance to get Martin is to include Roddy. And I would do that...I think.

I suppose the Kings could be really desperate to unload salary, but I'd have to think someone else would step up and offer salary relief AND some talent for a player of Martin's caliber.

I agree, but I don't think the Kings will really want Beaubois.

[Dirkenstien]

Bottom line is we have to be willing to take back some contracts if we want to improve and not unload young talent like Roddy.

[mac222b]

i bet we're willing to take back bad contracts for the right player. they're just trying to strengthen their bargaining position. there is obviously no way we get Martin or Iggy without getting back bad contracts or giving up Roddy

[fluid.forty.one]

Originally Posted by jthig32

He's certainly not very strong defensively, but I don't know that you need a third two-way player when you have Marion and Kidd (and Damp protecting the rim). As I mentioned earlier in the thread, we do have Ross to replace Josh in the role of backup wing defender.

I doubt he's any worse than Jet defensively, and he has a lot of extra length (in both height and arms) that can only help.

I'd imagine that Kidd's presence would instantly make his defense look and feel better than any time previously spent with Beno.

If the Mavs got Martin for Howard this team would be ready to make a run for the finals.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

I agree, but I don't think the Kings will really want Beaubois.

I dunno. If they trade Martin they're conceding that Evans is not a PG. And Udrih is certainly not a PG you're going to build around. Seems like a nice fit to me.

Why don't you think they'd want him?

[RoddyB#3]

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/maver.../_/id/4665036/

UPDATE: One source close to the situation said Friday that the Mavs would have no interest in a Martin deal if the Kings insisted they take on an additional player with a long-term contract such as Nocioni or Udrih.

[purplefrog]

Originally Posted by RoddyB#3

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/maver.../_/id/4665036/

UPDATE: One source close to the situation said Friday that the Mavs would have no interest in a Martin deal if the Kings insisted they take on an additional player with a long-term contract such as Nocioni or Udrih.

But if Carroll was part of the deal... then maybe??

[Lor20]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Any word on how Calathes has been doing?

nicks stats this saeson in greece so far:
Team G MIN PTS 2FGP 3FGP FT RO RD RT AS PF BS ST
Panathinaikos Athens 11 191 65 15-29 9-21 8-10 5 19 24 20 26 1 10
AVERAGE
Panathinaikos Athens 11 17.4 5.9 51.7% 42.9% 80.0% 0.5 1.7 2.2 1.8 2.4 0.1 0.9


and euroleague:
Team G MIN PTS 2FGP 3FGP FT RO RD RT AS PF BS ST
Panathinaikos Athens 9 146 39 10-18 4-20 7-16 3 15 18 19 12 0 5
AVERAGE
Panathinaikos Athens 9 16.2 4.3 55.6% 20.0% 43.8% 0.3 1.7 2.0 2.1 1.3 0.0 0.6

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by purplefrog

But if Carroll was part of the deal... then maybe??

That's what I was thinking. Perhaps something along the lines of Josh/Carroll/JJB for Martin/Udrih.