Cowboys offseason Thread - Page 5 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

sike · 03-08-2005, 10:52 PM

Williams is no speed receiver...

sike · 03-08-2005, 10:54 PM

tell me a little about Darren Howard....I'm in the dark on him.

also, where did you hear this rumor, 413?

mavs413 · 03-08-2005, 11:04 PM

I found this link from ESPN. Click Here

From the article -
Despite the significance the "franchise" designation implies, Saints officials are open to trading Howard if someone meets their asking price. It is believed that New Orleans is seeking a second-round draft choice. League sources said there have been discussions with at least one NFC franchise.

sike · 03-08-2005, 11:08 PM

athanku

sike · 03-08-2005, 11:19 PM

where did you hear that the Boys were interested?

dirno2000 · 03-08-2005, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: sike
tell me a little about Darren Howard....I'm in the dark on him.

also, where did you hear this rumor, 413?

Pass rushing defensive end from the Saints....he put up 11 sacks in 13 games last season. He's only 275 so I don't know how solid he is against the run.

If we were to trade for him, we'd have to sign him to a long term contract.

sike · 03-08-2005, 11:39 PM

just looked his stats...more than worth a 2nd in my humble and ill-informed opinion

dirno2000 · 03-09-2005, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: sike
just looked his stats...more than worth a 2nd in my humble and ill-informed opinion

Mine to...especially when you consider the dearth of pass rushers in this years FA class.

sike · 03-09-2005, 12:12 AM

"Darth Rushers".....sounds like another prequel to me.

#1MavsFan · 03-09-2005, 12:21 AM

If we could get him and DJ or Merriman we’ve have one of the best defenses in the league next year. Also than we could draft Troy Williamson with the 20th pick solving our gap for a speedy receiver.

sike · 03-09-2005, 12:25 AM

is Troy Williamson anything other than speedy? Is he a #1 WR or just a nice speed guy?

the days of Alexander Wright being the next big thing have not been forgotten by some of us...

#1MavsFan · 03-09-2005, 12:31 AM

He has pretty good hands too I believe, and was very productive in college. Also by drafting him we'd immediately have a deep threat.

His bio: http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/pla...illiamson.html

sike · 03-09-2005, 01:43 AM

thanks for the info #1

dirno2000 · 03-09-2005, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: sike
thanks for the info #1

Is he really #1....I ask because I have a shirt that says "Worlds Greatest Mavs Fan" and worlds greatest has to be better than #1 right?

sike · 03-09-2005, 08:17 AM

apples and oranges....

my shirt says, "Greatest Mavs Fan in this or any other potential universe!" ....I am clearly the one.

drino, what do you think about Williamson?

sike · 03-09-2005, 11:41 AM

yo

Quote:

10(10). Dallas Cowboys

*Mike Williams Wide Receiver USC

By the start of next season the starters will be 33 and 30 years old respectively. Mike Williams could learn behind two cagey veterans in Keyshawn Johnson and Terry Glenn while seeing considerable time right from the start of the season. The Cowboys have another first round pick so the risk here is significantly less than other teams who would look at Williams.

interesting..

dirno2000 · 03-09-2005, 01:32 PM

Quote:

drino, what do you think about Williamson?

I haven't watched a lot of Carolina Football, but a couple of things make me feel comfortable taking him 1) In addition to being a track star, he was one of the best high school players in the country and even played some running back in high school so he should have some toughness. Alexander Wright was a track star that somebody stuck on the football field. 2) I have a co-worker that's an SC alum...he's probably seen every game that Williamson has played and he vouches for the guy...says he has good hands.

His catch numbers are pretty pedestrian, but by all indications that’s a function of SC's QB's and the Lou Holtz offense.

FWIW, Entroducing says he's the best receiver in college football...of course you should automatically take his evaluation of SEC players down one grade [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

mavs413 · 03-12-2005, 01:53 AM

Sources: Cowboys may deal Nguyen to Saints for DE
12:02 AM CST on Saturday, March 12, 2005
By JEAN-JACQUES TAYLOR / The Dallas Morning News

IRVING – The Cowboys, who have not had a defensive end with double-digit sacks in nearly a decade, are in serious negotiations with New Orleans to acquire defensive end Darren Howard, two sources said Friday night.
The sources said the Cowboys are considering trading middle linebacker Dat Nguyen and a second-round pick in April's draft to New Orleans for Howard.
Howard (6-3, 275 pounds), a five-year veteran from Kansas State, had 11 sacks last season and 41 in his career. The former second-round pick had 11 sacks as a rookie.
He is currently involved in a salary dispute with the Saints, who have placed the franchise tag on him, meaning his salary is equal to the average of the five highest-paid defensive ends. If he doesn't sign the contract by 3 p.m. Monday, he and the Saints can't negotiate a long-term deal that would help the Saints lower his salary-cap figure in 2005 and provide him with the long-term security that he desires.

dalmations202 · 03-12-2005, 10:25 AM

This has got to be one of the dumbest things I have ever heard. You take a guy who has been the most productive player on the defense for the last 5 years, and trade him -- because you don't think he is big enough.

Nguyen is like Zack Thomas and Mike Singletary. He just makes plays. The Cowboys would be making a mistake to move him, IMO.

Brady James hasn't shown me much yet, but because he is 6'2" and 245 instead of under 6' and in the 230's -- then they need to move the pro-bowl caliber LB's on the team.

I really don't see this happening though.....after all Howard didn't play for Big Bill years ago, so I doubt that BB thinks he is "really" good. Now he might want to move Nguyen since he was here before BB, but since Howard isn't a ex-Jet or ex-Big Bill draft pick....I doubt he will make this deal. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif[/img]

endtroducing · 03-12-2005, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: dirno2000

Quote:

drino, what do you think about Williamson?

I haven't watched a lot of Carolina Football, but a couple of things make me feel comfortable taking him 1) In addition to being a track star, he was one of the best high school players in the country and even played some running back in high school so he should have some toughness. Alexander Wright was a track star that somebody stuck on the football field. 2) I have a co-worker that's an SC alum...he's probably seen every game that Williamson has played and he vouches for the guy...says he has good hands.

His catch numbers are pretty pedestrian, but by all indications that’s a function of SC's QB's and the Lou Holtz offense.

FWIW, Entroducing says he's the best receiver in college football...of course you should automatically take his evaluation of SEC players down one grade [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

hey, I didn't say he was the best! haha

really though, Williamson was the best WR in the conference last year, which is amazing considering the USC offense (or lack thereof)...he has a good burst, and his route running has improved a lot since his sophomore year. he can almost always beat his man, at least in college. he'd be a steal at 20...either him or Roddy White, whoever is available.

chumdawg · 03-12-2005, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: dalmations202
This has got to be one of the dumbest things I have ever heard. You take a guy who has been the most productive player on the defense for the last 5 years, and trade him -- because you don't think he is big enough.

Nguyen is like Zack Thomas and Mike Singletary. He just makes plays. The Cowboys would be making a mistake to move him, IMO.

Brady James hasn't shown me much yet, but because he is 6'2" and 245 instead of under 6' and in the 230's -- then they need to move the pro-bowl caliber LB's on the team.

I really don't see this happening though.....after all Howard didn't play for Big Bill years ago, so I doubt that BB thinks he is "really" good. Now he might want to move Nguyen since he was here before BB, but since Howard isn't a ex-Jet or ex-Big Bill draft pick....I doubt he will make this deal. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif[/img]

I don't know much (yet) about this Howard kid. But you gots to give talent to get talent. I love Dat. But if I could trade him for a playmaking defensive end, I might have to consider that a bigger need to fill.

Just211 · 03-12-2005, 12:05 PM

When the offseason started, I thought Coakley and Dat, would end up in StL and Min, for maybe 3rd or 4th rd picks. But since Dexter left with no pick in return, It'd be nice to get a real DE in return for Dat. I mean Dats good, BUT he is small, and one reason why Dallas can't stop the other team at the end when they need to. He's worn out. Also after watching him get burnt at least once or twice a game in pass coverage, I wouldn't be too upset with this trade. But thats IF they think they have a good replacement at MLB.
And if your upset about losing him, just imagine how much better the secondary will be with the help of a pass rush. I say DO IT. and hopefully there will still be enough money to buy a FS in FA.

Ninkobei · 03-12-2005, 12:24 PM

If the 'Boys do this trade, it might mean they are going after both merriman and DJ in the draft. How cool would that be

Just211 · 03-12-2005, 12:34 PM

whAtever they do, its gonna be interesting. I would like to see them pick up some 2-4 rnd picks. I think there are some quality guys that could add some depth the the team. especially at 3rd-4th round RB

chumdawg · 03-12-2005, 02:08 PM

From the Times Picayune:

Saints hearing interest in Howard
Cowboys front-runners for deal to be struck
Saturday, March 12, 2005
By Jeff Duncan
Staff writer
The Dallas Cowboys have emerged as the primary suitor for Saints defensive end Darren Howard, but a handful of other teams recently have expressed interest in trading for New Orleans' franchise free agent, NFL sources said Friday.

Dallas, along with at least one other unnamed team, is negotiating a long-term contract with Howard's agent, Gary Wichard, the source said. The deal could pay Howard up to $17 million in bonus money.

While Dallas is considered the front-runner, Miami, Minnesota, Seattle, Washington and at least two other teams have engaged in trade talks with Saints officials in the past week. Oakland and Kansas City also have been mentioned as possible suitors, but an NFL source said Friday that neither is a candidate at this time.

The Saints are seeking a first-round draft pick or a starting defensive player in return for Howard, a five-year veteran who led the team with 11 sacks last season. One of the proposals the Saints are seeking from Dallas is a package that includes middle linebacker Dat Nguyen and possibly a pick in the draft. However, Cowboys officials are not sure they are willing to part with their leading tackler. Nguyen led the Cowboys with 98 tackles in 2003 and 83 last season.

The Cowboys have the ammunition to make a deal. Dallas has two first-round picks (Nos. 11 and 20). They acquired the No. 20 pick from Buffalo in a trade last season.

Minnesota also has two first-round picks: No. 7, which they acquired in a trade with Oakland for wide receiver Randy Moss, and No. 18.

Seattle has the No. 23 overall pick in the first round.

Miami (No. 2) and Washington (No. 9) have top-10 picks. It's doubtful either team would be willing to offer that kind of compensation for Howard.

The Saints designated Howard as their franchise free agent last month. As of Friday morning, he had not signed the qualifying tender offer that guarantees him a base salary of $7.8 million in 2005. Howard is expected to sign the one-year tender by 4 p.m. Monday.

The Saints would like to deal Howard to clear room on the salary cap and open playing time for promising second-year defensive end Will Smith. All of Howard's $7.8 million salary would clear the books if he is dealt. As of Friday, the Saints were $5.4 million under the $85.5 million salary cap.

The Saints hope to get long-term contract extensions with running back Deuce McAllister, wide receiver Joe Horn, center LeCharles Bentley and perhaps cornerback Mike McKenzie this offseason and need the cap room to negotiate.

Smith had 7 ½ sacks as a rookie and started three games at right end when Howard was sidelined with neck and knee injuries.

Howard became the first draft pick of the Jim Haslett era when the Saints selected him with the second pick of the second round (33rd overall) in 2000. He led the Saints and tied for ninth in the NFL with 11 sacks last season. He has 41 sacks since 2000, most on the Saints. Only 10 active NFL players have more sacks in that span.

Howard, 28, has missed 11 starts the past two seasons because of various injuries. A 6-foot-3, 280-pound veteran, he missed eight starts in 2003 after fracturing his right wrist in the opener against Seattle. He missed three starts last season.

dirno2000 · 03-12-2005, 03:27 PM

Quote:

hey, I didn't say he was the best! haha

Actually you did...here's you full post from January 18th...

"well, Rolle's stock dropped after various ACC teams showed his inability to cover basically anyone in the red zone, where he can't get away with just being fast. he's also overly physical in coverage, something he wasn't called for in college much (home cooking) but will be flagged for in the NFL. I wouldn't even be surprised if Rogers is taken before him because of his all around ability.

Troy Williamson is the best WR in the draft, even better than Edwards. his speed and hands are just lethal...and I don't think Miami takes Benson at 2. Saban has total control over the draft, and I don't really think Miami would be high on drafting another Longhorn RB all about personal accomplishments and not the team."

So technically you didn't say best receiver in college football, just best in the draft

dirno2000 · 03-12-2005, 03:31 PM

Quote:

This has got to be one of the dumbest things I have ever heard. You take a guy who has been the most productive player on the defense for the last 5 years, and trade him -- because you don't think he is big enough.

I don't think it's a size issue. Parcells isn't the only coach in the league that likes big players...they all do. Given two players of equal ability, most coaches will take the bigger player. If you've heard him talk about Dat, you can hear the respect come out...on press conference he called him "a football playing son of a gun".

This is a case of getting a player at the toughest positon in football to fill besides QB. If we're going to play a 4-3, a pass rush end is much more valuable than a linebacker.

Murphy3 · 03-12-2005, 03:40 PM

Make the trade and pick up a linebacker or two in the draft...this would be a brilliant move

jayC · 03-12-2005, 06:35 PM

Zach Thomas is one of the best linebackers in the league. Come on Dal give me a break. Dat is a solid player but he is not a Ray Lewis, Mcginnis, or even Trotter. He isn't close to Lavar Arrington. I would pull the trigger in a heart beat. The Cowboys have two first round picks to pick up linebackers or Ends. They could trade their second first round pick for more picks.

dalmations202 · 03-12-2005, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: jayC
Zach Thomas is one of the best linebackers in the league. Come on Dal give me a break. Dat is a solid player but he is not a Ray Lewis, Mcginnis, or even Trotter. He isn't close to Lavar Arrington. I would pull the trigger in a heart beat. The Cowboys have two first round picks to pick up linebackers or Ends. They could trade their second first round pick for more picks.

And Howard has done what? He isn't the best either. Although, I don't doubt better than what we had.

(According to NFL.com)
Dat in 2003 had more tackles than Zack 84 - 88.
Dat in 2004 had 10 less than Zack.
Both years Dat had more passes defensed.
Both years, Zack had more assists though.

I love both of them. They are really good Middle linebackers. No, Dat isn't Ray Lewis. No Dat isn't Lavar Arrington. Yes, he is one of the more solid linebackers in the game today though. Don't underestimate what he brings to the field. He is a quality defensive player that you know. As opposed to giving up a first rounder, and a solid Middle linebacker for the next Shante Carver, Kavika Pittman, Ebanezer Ekuban or Marcellus Wiley. He doesn't have an outrageous contract, and is solid every game.

IMO, they would be far better off taking Dan and Shawn Cody in the first round, or Pollock - while keeping their picks and keeping the MLB. If they have a shot a DJ, then fine....make the trade after they have DJ in fold. If not, then don't move him.

The trade isn't bad, if they get DJ. If not though, then they have just gutted a stength for arrogance. I haven't seen much of Merriman so I don't want to comment on him yet. I just know that they keep busting on players, and trading a very solid one doesn't seem smart to me.

My apologies, I shouldn't be so down on the trade. I am just tired of BBill trying to get by on his past, and his older players. I have seen enough of them, and none of them are near as good this time around. Only time will tell if this next round of ex-BBill players can play.

dirno2000 · 03-12-2005, 10:18 PM

Quote:

My apologies, I shouldn't be so down on the trade. I am just tired of BBill trying to get by on his past, and his older players. I have seen enough of them, and none of them are near as good this time around. Only time will tell if this next round of ex-BBill players can play.

This is not just directed at you because you express a popular sentiment, but what's so bad about Bill picking up his former players?

Everybody turned on Vinny and that's skewing opinions to the negative side. Let look at it:

Keyshawn Johsnon - We got him for Joey Galloway who was pretty much a bust here. He caught 70 balls for almost a thousand yards...with torn knee cartliage!

Terry Glen - We got him for a 7th rounder from Green Bay...he's a cheap player. He's caught about 55 ball for about 800 yards the two seasons he was healthy

Eric Obogu - Picked up off the scrap heap...giving us 4.5 sacks per year as a rotation defensive lineman.

Leo Carson - Solid rotation tackle

Ritchie Anderson - Good third down back and good locker room guy.

Let me know if I'm missing someone.

By and large, when you looked what we gave up for these guys and what they've produced, I don't lsee how you can say "I wish that guy wasn't here"

Also, Howard has never played for Parcells so I'm not sure where he fits in there.

Just211 · 03-13-2005, 11:19 AM

well DMN reports Dat is not part of the deal anymore, but they still want Howard. So maybe everyone will get what they want.

Ninkobei · 03-13-2005, 01:26 PM

As long as we don't trade our first first-rounder I think I will be ok with it. Though I hate trading the 20th overall pick for a 29 year old

dalmations202 · 03-13-2005, 02:12 PM

Quote:

By and large, when you looked what we gave up for these guys and what they've produced, I don't lsee how you can say "I wish that guy wasn't here"

Also, Howard has never played for Parcells so I'm not sure where he fits in there.

I agree. I am just tired of all the references to the old players. Most of them were really good when younger, but most have lost a little. I want BBill to build the Cowboys, not build the old jets, or the old (list team here).

I know that Howard hasn't played for BBill, and he really isn't relavent. I hope all are correct though, and Howard ends up a Cowboy, but the trade doesn't cost a 1st rounder or a starter.

Murphy3 · 03-13-2005, 02:33 PM

I was interested in why Dat would be a part of the deal. Surely NO would want more...

#1MavsFan · 03-13-2005, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Murphy3
I was interested in why Dat would be a part of the deal. Surely NO would want more...

There’s no way they could get more, they'll probably end up with just a 2nd round pick for him. They need to trade him or risk not giving out long-term contracts to Deuce McAllister, Joe Horn and a couple others. Also Howard might hold out of training camp if he isn't given a new *lucrative* contract. A 2nd round pick + 7th round should do it, but we'd have to wait until Tuesday since than they can't sign him to a long term contract anymore thus meaning they'd almost have to trade him.

chumdawg · 03-13-2005, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Murphy3
I was interested in why Dat would be a part of the deal. Surely NO would want more...

From what I read, the Saints were looking for exactly a starting linebacker and a pick. Could they get a better starting linebacker? Depends on the team that needs the DE, I guess. Supposedly there were something like six suitors for Howard.

Murphy3 · 03-13-2005, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: chumdawg

Quote:

Originally posted by: Murphy3
I was interested in why Dat would be a part of the deal. Surely NO would want more...

From what I read, the Saints were looking for exactly a starting linebacker and a pick. Could they get a better starting linebacker? Depends on the team that needs the DE, I guess. Supposedly there were something like six suitors for Howard.

Chum, I hadn't hear the 'and the pick' part. That would make alot more sense. But, apparently #1mavsfan is correct on this subject....

sike · 03-14-2005, 01:00 PM

The Cowboys should do that deal.

sike · 03-15-2005, 12:06 PM

anyone heard any new news on the Howard deal???