Dirk opts out of contract - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Melonhead · 05-04-2016, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

I would absolute hate if Dirk takes another discount so just Deron and Parsons getting their demanded raises.

Specially Deron should be about winning in his hometown, he made over 100 million in his career so far...

This is what Im hoping. He deserves more and should ABSOLUTELY request more. Especially since Parsons has an overinflated view of his play and Deron wants a lot more too. F those guys if it comes down to money whether they stay or go.

mac222b · 05-05-2016, 12:33 AM

Wes is overpaid. If the MBT negotiated that contingency w/him(and JJ for that matter) than that just proves that they are poor negotiators. Unless trading with Ernie Grunfeld- he makes them look good. but then everyone got over on Ernie.

..And I'm not so sure teams are beating down our door for Wes. I think we'd take back another crap contract or two in return. It'd be a glorified salary dump w/ a minor asset attached. That extra money they gave him post Deandre drama, combined this $ with yet ANOTHER presumed Dirk paycut and then let's say Parsons gives us a discount to add to the largesse; youre talking about potentially an extra 10-12 million this Summer to spend on FA. Seriously though, why should Dirk&CP take a cut? The incompetence of Cuban got them in this predicament- few assets and a touch of cap mismanagement.

Wes is also an overrated defender. On the ball he's pretty damn good. But he gets caught ball watching and gives up open 3's and backdoors(hes sometimes overly aggresive and thus easy to backdoor)on the regular. Devin is also guilty of this. Getting sucked in to "help" on defense when it's not necessary or even your job. I'm repeating myself here but I think it's necessary to provide a corrective to the false narrative of Wes as some great defender. Hes a better than average defender, no doubt. His flaws have little if anything to do with his injury but are more mental mistakes. And I'm sure were evident in Portland too we just didn't see them often enough to notice.

Melonhead · 05-05-2016, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

Wes is also an overrated defender. On the ball he's pretty damn good. But he gets caught ball watching and gives up open 3's and backdoors(hes sometimes overly aggresive and thus easy to backdoor)on the regular. Devin is also guilty of this. Getting sucked in to "help" on defense when it's not necessary or even your job. I'm repeating myself here but I think it's necessary to provide a corrective to the false narrative of Wes as some great defender. Hes a better than average defender, no doubt. His flaws have little if anything to do with his injury but are more mental mistakes. And I'm sure were evident in Portland too we just didn't see them often enough to notice.

Agree here on all counts. Help when helping not needed, especially back doors. Hes GREAT one on one. With that said, I do believe his injury mitigates his quickness, something he relied on pre injury to recover to his defender. Now we see him get burned on those more often.

Murphy3 · 05-05-2016, 01:05 PM

Wes was definitively overpaid. There is no justifiable argument otherwise.

MavzMan · 05-05-2016, 01:10 PM

Just based on effort and that he actually gave us a full season, I'm giving Wes a pass on this year even with his salary. I do expect more from him next season, but the dude gave everything he had when he was on the court. Most importantly, during the playoffs it was clearly evident he wants to win. He was just as frustrated as I was when he was missing shots. That is the attitude I want to see and why I expect him to be better next season.

j0Shi · 05-05-2016, 03:45 PM

Plus shots are fixable, attitude is not.

+Wes

DevinHarriswillstart · 05-05-2016, 03:52 PM

Wes is still very valuable if the team focuses on defense.

If they try to be the GS Warriors again and play 4 guard lineups, then you're just wasting his defensive talent...especially if you overplay him at the 3.

MavzMan · 05-05-2016, 05:01 PM

If we go 4 guard lineups again next year, I'm turning off the TV.

Not really, but that is my threat dammi.

Underdog · 05-05-2016, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavzMan

If we go 4 guard lineups again next year, I'm turning off the TV.

Not really, but that is my threat dammi.

Injuries had a lot to do with it... But it does suck that our team in made up in such a way that if the injury bug strikes, that's our best option.

GhostFace · 05-06-2016, 12:45 PM

The moment this was announced I already knew that I will be purchasing tickets when the Mavs visit Brooklyn. I think they visit Brooklyn twice.... I'm gonna try and take both days off and get there early, hopefully get Dirk's signature. Lord almighty, that would be amazing. I'll try to get tickets to MSG, but they are just too much money.

Underdog · 05-09-2016, 05:39 PM

@espn_macmahon: Rick Carlisle says the Mavericks must give Dirk Nowitzki "the ultimate respect" in free agency, regardless of Nowitzki indicating he has no intention of leaving Dallas. "Hey, we're not taking this thing for granted," Carlisle said on 103.3 FM ESPN in Dallas. "When you do that, that's when you can get in trouble. ... We've got to take every measure to make sure he understands how much he means to all of us."

Melonhead · 05-09-2016, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

@espn_macmahon: Rick Carlisle says the Mavericks must give Dirk Nowitzki "the ultimate respect" in free agency, regardless of Nowitzki indicating he has no intention of leaving Dallas. "Hey, we're not taking this thing for granted," Carlisle said on 103.3 FM ESPN in Dallas. "When you do that, that's when you can get in trouble. ... We've got to take every measure to make sure he understands how much he means to all of us."

No matter how much I get angry about Carlisle, he's never shorted us on Dirk. He's on the same page as the fans when it comes to the German

BPo001 · 05-09-2016, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

No matter how much I get angry about Carlisle, he's never shorted us on Dirk. He's on the same page as the fans when it comes to the German

Rick's a smart guy who has been around this game a long time. He knows greatness when he sees it and knows it's not something you can take for granted.

Erod · 05-11-2016, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BPo001

Rick's a smart guy who has been around this game a long time. He knows greatness when he sees it and knows it's not something you can take for granted.

Except when it comes to the value of Crowder and Aminu apparently.

We sure couldn't have used those guys.

Skywalker · 05-11-2016, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erod

Except when it comes to the value of Crowder and Aminu apparently.

We sure couldn't have used those guys.

Equating the value of Crowder and Aminu to "greatness" seems like a bit of a stretch to me.

Erod · 05-11-2016, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skywalker

Equating the value of Crowder and Aminu to "greatness" seems like a bit of a stretch to me.

True, but the candidate for Most Improved Player in the NBA couldn't get on the floor here.

And Aminu's energy wasn't determined to be as valuable as....Wes Matthews?

BPo001 · 05-11-2016, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erod

Except when it comes to the value of Crowder and Aminu apparently.

We sure couldn't have used those guys.

Aminu played the same position as our 2 best players (Dirk, Parsons). Hard to justify spending $30 million dollars for a backup.

yahyes · 05-11-2016, 08:28 PM

All I know is Anderson looks to be a better franchise player than Aminu and Crowder. Plus he's younger with different attributes.

Underdog · 05-11-2016, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yahyes

All I know is Anderson looks to be a better franchise player than Aminu and Crowder. Plus he's younger with different attributes.

I'm not sure if you're clear on what a "franchise" player is -- anything short of a superstar (Dirk) doesn't rate... Pretty sure you're thinking of a cornerstone player (Kidd/Terry/Marion/Chandler), in which case, I agree. Anderson definitely has more potential to be a longterm piece on this team than either Crowder (offensively flawed) or Aminu (too expensive). Although all three had the right attitude and skill set for Carlisle's system... Hopefully JA doesn't get traded for a couple of magic Rondo beans!

yahyes · 05-11-2016, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

I'm not sure if you're clear on what a "franchise" player is -- anything short of a superstar (Dirk) doesn't rate... Pretty sure you're thinking of a cornerstone player (Kidd/Terry/Marion/Chandler), in which case, I agree. Anderson definitely has more potential to be a longterm piece on this team than either Crowder (offensively flawed) or Aminu (too expensive). Although all three had the right attitude and skill set for Carlisle's system... Hopefully JA doesn't get traded for a couple of magic Rondo beans!

You really are giving up on a solid first rounder? After 1 season of making the playoffs, him already meshing in the first round, and not to mention his athletic ability. That's not building any type of bench. Anderson also played well with Dirk on the floor. In fact he got a lot of playing time in most of the games we won.

yahyes · 05-11-2016, 09:00 PM

Meaning Anderson should stay long term with the Mavs...

Underdog · 05-11-2016, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yahyes

Meaning Anderson should stay long term with the Mavs...

I don't think we're disagreeing here... I'm just saying the terminology of "franchise" vs. "cornerstone" has less to do with longevity than with role.

Anderson is a potential cornerstone player currently under (rookie) contract until at least 2018-19 -- and that's probably one of the better longterm things this franchise has going for it right now... Agree?

yahyes · 05-11-2016, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

I don't think we're disagreeing here... I'm just saying the terminology of "franchise" vs. "cornerstone" has less to do with longevity than with role.

Anderson is a potential cornerstone player currently under (rookie) contract until at least 2018-19 -- and that's probably one of the better longterm things this franchise has going for it right now... Agree?

Yeah, but he looks like a player that can contribute all around the court for the next 10 years solid. Which is a player who can probably be a starter here next year. If Parsons bails on us.

Underdog · 05-11-2016, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yahyes

Yeah, but he looks like a player that can contribute all around the court for the next 10 years solid. Which is a player who can probably be a starter here next year. If Parsons bails on us.

We're only disagreeing on semantics, not the general point... Justin Anderson could very well be our best pick since Josh Howard -- obviously the jury is still out on that one, but the kid is definitely passing the eye test after one season.

Skywalker · 05-11-2016, 10:00 PM

If he keeps up this production Aminus contract will be one of the biggest bargains in the league with the projected cap increases tbh.

Underdog · 05-11-2016, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skywalker

If he keeps up this production Aminus contract will be one of the biggest bargains in the league with the projected cap increases tbh.

True, but $30m/4yr is too expensive for Dirk/Parsons' backup... In our case, context matters.

DevinHarriswillstart · 05-11-2016, 11:18 PM

Surprised that people are still overrating Crowder and Aminu.

And saying we could have "used" those guys is silly. We could use a ton of players in the league.

Underdog · 05-11-2016, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Surprised that people are still overrating Crowder and Aminu.

Neither one is a game-changer, but they ain't spares either... I'd say Crowder is proof that the FO can draft rotational players with mediocre picks, and Aminu is continuing proof that Carlisle can resuscitate a young, struggling player's career.

Skywalker · 05-12-2016, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

True, but $30m/4yr is too expensive for Dirk/Parsons' backup... In our case, context matters.

Yeah, I understand that.

MavzMan · 05-12-2016, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

I'd say Crowder is proof that the FO can draft rotational players with mediocre picks

That is the key here. As long as we have Dirk, chances are high that we make the playoffs which means we have mediocre pick at best. Yes, we might lose these guys to free agency if we can't match what they get. Until Dirk retires and the FO goes full on rebuild mode, this is who we are. We draft quality role players, make some noise in the playoffs and watch Dirk ride off into the sunset as the greatest Mav ever. I'm perfectly fine with that. It is what is is.

SMC0007 · 05-12-2016, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

We're only disagreeing on semantics, not the general point... Justin Anderson could very well be our best pick since Josh Howard -- obviously the jury is still out on that one, but the kid is definitely passing the eye test after one season.

Justin Anderson could be our top 3 best pick ever.

Skywalker · 05-12-2016, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Surprised that people are still overrating Crowder and Aminu.

And saying we could have "used" those guys is silly. We could use a ton of players in the league.

http://www.dallas-mavs.com/vb/showpo...50&postcount=4

DevinHarriswillstart · 05-12-2016, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skywalker

http://www.dallas-mavs.com/vb/showpo...50&postcount=4

Yeah, scrapping up something I posted in April of last year really got me.

You should read what Underdog just said about how salaries and role on the team matter. Oh and if you keep digging you'll see that I said Aminu wasn't worth that salary Portland offered him.

Oh and Aminu's performance this season is taken into account as well. Shot 41% from the field with a PER of 12. I'm glad he did well against GS, but all I said was people overrated these guys...not that I didn't like Aminu when he was here.

Nice try though.

Skywalker · 05-12-2016, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Yeah, scrapping up something I posted in April of last year really got me.

You should read what Underdog just said about how salaries and role on the team matter. Oh and if you keep digging you'll see that I said Aminu wasn't worth that salary Portland offered him.

Oh and Aminu's performance this season is taken into account as well. Shot 41% from the field with a PER of 12. I'm glad he did well against GS, but all I said was people overrated these guys...not that I didn't like Aminu when he was here.

Nice try though.

lol, I was looking through some old repped posts of mine and happened to stumble upon that.

Wasn't trying to "get" you. More like busting your balls. Lighten up.

DevinHarriswillstart · 05-12-2016, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skywalker

lol, I was looking through some old repped posts of mine and happened to stumble upon that.

Wasn't trying to "get" you. More like busting your balls. Lighten up.

Hey, don't bust if I can't bust back!

I think potentially Anderson gives us kinda the best of both worlds of those two on a peanuts contract.

tap2390 · 05-16-2016, 12:12 PM

I think Crowder and Aminu are the same guys they were here, they're just getting more minutes and are next to dynamic playmakers who open things up for them (Lillard and Thomas).

They're not going to win you many games, but they also won't lose you many by letting their guy drop 40, etc.

From what I've seen, Anderson combines Aminu's quickness and activity and Crowders strength with a better shooting stroke and more upside than either of them. I'm glad he's getting "their" minutes.

rimrocker · 05-30-2016, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Justin Anderson could be our top 3 best pick ever.

Lets hope he becomes better than Kidd, Aguirre, Tarpley, Ellis, Perkins, Harp, and Schrempf....assuming you are considering Ro as the 2nd best.

EricaLubarsky · 05-30-2016, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rimrocker

Lets hope he becomes better than Kidd, Aguirre, Tarpley, Ellis, Perkins, Harp, and Schrempf....assuming you are considering Ro as the 2nd best.

I assume he's talking about for the draft position, because he's certainly not up there with guys like Kidd who were top-10 picks (Kidd 2nd overall). Anderson has been a beast for a 21st pick and already is showing flashes that he'll be better than Crowder. I think getting anybody worthy of starting is a darn good pick for the late first round. According to 82games.com when a team picks at the 2nd overall, their chances of getting a star are 60% historically. At 21st overall, the odds of getting even a starting-caliber player is only 50-50

from 82games.com

BigDog63 · 05-30-2016, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

.

..And I'm not so sure teams are beating down our door for Wes. I think we'd take back another crap contract or two in return. It'd be a glorified salary dump w/ a minor asset attached.

Agree. Mavs are stuck with the players they signed. Either they are good values, and hence should keep them, or bad values, and hence have little to offer in a trade. Matthews is in the latter category.

Quote:

Seriously though, why should Dirk&CP take a cut? The incompetence of Cuban got them in this predicament- few assets and a touch of cap mismanagement.

I'm not thinking he will. He is already significantly underpaid, and if what they are going to do with the money is OVERpay others...why do it.

I think he opted out so that he's off the books, and Mavs can sign him back with Bird rights to any salary they want, AFTER picking up free agents. That frees up a lot more $$ than just signing to a lower salary, AND doesn't force him to take a lower salary.

Quote:

Wes is also an overrated defender. On the ball he's pretty damn good. But he gets caught ball watching and gives up open 3's and backdoors(hes sometimes overly aggresive and thus easy to backdoor)on the regular. Devin is also guilty of this.

Yep. What the Mavs really need is not a Dirk replacement (would be nice, but hard to find and then get), they need a Shawn Marion replacement...or even a Deshawn Stevenson replacement. As well as the oft mentioned Tyson Chandler replacement...someone who blocks shots and rebounds. That one is also hard to find, and get. Mavs have had luck at bargain C's, like Dejuan Blair, that they really miss now.

rimrocker · 05-30-2016, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I assume he's talking about for the draft position, because he's certainly not up there with guys like Kidd who were top-10 picks (Kidd 2nd overall). Anderson has been a beast for a 21st pick and already is showing flashes that he'll be better than Crowder. I think getting anybody worthy of starting is a darn good pick for the late first round. According to 82games.com when a team picks at the 2nd overall, their chances of getting a star are 60% historically. At 21st overall, the odds of getting even a starting-caliber player is only 50-50

from 82games.com

In terms of position of draft he might turn out to be one of our best but it will take a few years to find out.
JA certainly has put the Samaki Walker, Jim Farmer, Doug Smith, Cherokee Parks, Randy White, Dojo, Ager, Larkin, and Cunningham picks to shame.