Combined GDTs for this sh$#show

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by saclare

It's a personnel issue for this team more than scheme. They did just fine last year with some obviously different pieces. DFS was more important to it all than what most gave credit for. Still, the glaring issue was interior presence for either defense or rebounding, preferably both, but they don't grow on trees. I think the FO could have gotten a LOT more creative when solving for this last offseason.

IMO it doesn't matter what is more to blame scheme or players. We lost JB who was NOT a good defender. We lost Dorian who was decent defender but we sucked with him too this season. He was our best defender but that's not saying much, he wasnt stopping anybody.

We replaced JB with Wood which should net you more boards, but the dude came off the bench and it negated the potential extra rebounding.

I think it's equal parts interior presence as it is perimeter defense and scheme. We got blown off thr dribble a ton. Bigs come away from the basket and the fiasco ensues. How many times have we failed to defend simple PnR? Scrambling to rotate is inevitable, but damn, we are constantly trying to catch up and guys have to collectively make instant decisions on where to go. In crunch time, games where we almost always lost this season, none of our guards or forwards can defend. We can't even slow down the attack. Not even when we had Dorian.

[BPo001]

Well Luka says he is playing tomorrow vs the Kings.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by BPo001

Well Luka says he is playing tomorrow vs the Kings.

Then we are really tanking.

[Zeus]

Let's agree as we all should that Luka should be more fit. Agree! But that doesn't absolve the fact this front office is pure garbage. All the moves they could have made over the past 5 years such as Bogdonovich, Lauri Markkanen, Desmond F'n Bane, panicking into the KP trade, panicking into the Kyrie trade, signing an idiot head coach with his passive aggressive garbage and having a bare cupboard when Luka got here because as it ends up Mark Cuban was the only owner/FO that actually misunderstood the 2012 CBA and decided dry fucking powder was actually more important than amassing NBA talent. Oh let's not forget we had mini operation dry powder at the start of 2019 FA (after Luka was already rookie of the year) thinking they had a chance to get Giannis if he didn't resign with Bucks. We are a collectively stupid org. I think we would be an equally dumb fanbase if Luka walks or is traded because of Org ineptitude if all stand by and support a rebuild under the leadership of Cuban. I for one will find another piece of laundry to cheer for.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

So strange people defending DFS when he has been awful for the Nets. We were lucky to move that contract when we did or it's another THJ contract that nobody wants.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

So strange people defending DFS when he has been awful for the Nets. We were lucky to move that contract when we did or it's another THJ contract that nobody wants.

I think both things can be true:
1) He's about that undrafted talent we got who is just a decent defender who hit threes pretty well for a year and added an occasional drive to his repertoire.
and
2) he was the piece of duct tape on the wing of our plane that let our defense even kind of work

Not saying he's a star, but he was important on this talent and defense-starved team.

[saclare]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

So strange people defending DFS when he has been awful for the Nets. We were lucky to move that contract when we did or it's another THJ contract that nobody wants.

Who tf is defending him? He is what he is and you're going to use his time for the Nets as a nail in the coffin type of argument for yourself? LOL we simply can't talk ball if that's the approach you're going to take.

DFS is an above average defender and at worst average to above average total 3&D player. "So strange" is what should be applied to the "fans" here that continue to try and shit on him after he's no longer here. Put some respect on DFS, this team could use him in a heartbeat. As soon as I saw he was a piece going to the Nets in a trade, what semblance of defense the Mavs had evaporated. When you can only rely on Bullock and Green to defend, you're going to struggle.

Absolutely not the same type of contract as THJ, by the way. You guys are letting the disappointment of the season cloud your judgement tbh

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by saclare

Who tf is defending him? He is what he is and you're going to use his time for the Nets as a nail in the coffin type of argument for yourself? LOL we simply can't talk ball if that's the approach you're going to take.

DFS is an above average defender and at worst average to above average total 3&D player. "So strange" is what should be applied to the "fans" here that continue to try and shit on him after he's no longer here. Put some respect on DFS, this team could use him in a heartbeat. As soon as I saw he was a piece going to the Nets in a trade, what semblance of defense the Mavs had evaporated. When you can only rely on Bullock and Green to defend, you're going to struggle.

Absolutely not the same type of contract as THJ, by the way. You guys are letting the disappointment of the season cloud your judgement tbh

You're the one acting emotional over nothing. Everyone seems to have a stick up their ass lately on here because the season went down the tubes.

If you don't want to talk ball to me, then don't quote me. It's pretty simple, really.

[saclare]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

You're the one acting emotional over nothing. Everyone seems to have a stick up their ass lately on here because the season went down the tubes.

If you don't want to talk ball to me, then don't quote me. It's pretty simple, really.

Emotional? Lol ok...

I'll quote you when I feel like it. I just ask for you to bring some substance behind such statements that are not based in fact and only in your feelings.

Yet, I'm the one emotional.

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

So strange people defending DFS when he has been awful for the Nets. We were lucky to move that contract when we did or it's another THJ contract that nobody wants.

I like DFS but there isn?t another single talent in the nba of Kyries caliber that could?ve been acquired with DFS and Spencer. It was a unique position of a player asking out, other orgs not taking the risk, and the FO sending him somewhere that wasn?t a priority destination.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

I like DFS but there isn?t another single talent in the nba of Kyries caliber that could?ve been acquired with DFS and Spencer. It was a unique position of a player asking out, other orgs not taking the risk, and the FO sending him somewhere that wasn?t a priority destination.

I like DFS too actually, but he and Maxi were run into the ground here. Both were asked to do too much for what their talent could afford and neither are really playable anymore.

I like a lot of guys who I think we're better without. I liked KP, but he can't get a fricken' Wizards team to .500.

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I like DFS too actually, but he and Maxi were run into the ground here. Both were asked to do too much for what their talent could afford and neither are really playable anymore.

I like a lot of guys who I think we're better without. I liked KP, but he can't get a fricken' Wizards team to .500.

agreed 100%, looking back its kind of shocking mavs got kyrie for dfs and spence. the mavs did not give up much besides the pick. ill still always root for them.

[Simon2]

Ironically, Cuban has become the owner he hated when he was a Mavs fan sitting in the stands. He is different though in that he is too much ?in the forest? to see the trees. He is possibly too close that he is not objective anymore with personnel decisions.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Simon2

Ironically, Cuban has become the owner he hated when he was a Mavs fan sitting in the stands. He is different though in that he is too much ?in the forest? to see the trees. He is possibly too close that he is not objective anymore with personnel decisions.

Sure. I think he has tried, but he just doesn't know enough about team building and has relied on the Nelsons for the majority of his ownership, with Rick bridging the gap. Soon as he is left on his own, he made quick and questionable decisions in Kidd and Nico.

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Sure. I think he has tried, but he just doesn't know enough about team building and has relied on the Nelsons for the majority of his ownership, with Rick bridging the gap. Soon as he is left on his own, he made quick and questionable decisions in Kidd and Nico.

Rick is the guy who recommended Kidd to Cuban

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

Rick is the guy who recommended Kidd to Cuban

And why would he accept the word of the guy who just quit? Just reeks of weakness.

What's really sad is Mosley's Magic are only 3 wins away from us. He shoulda been the coach.

Cuban even admitted he wasn't sure what to do when Rick quit and Donnie was fired. So he brought in basically all of the 2011 championship team to pull on our heart strings and hide behind whatever decision was made. If Dirk wants Kidd...who can argue?

Guy is just a child who can't make an adult decision to save his life with this team.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

Rick is the guy who recommended Kidd to Cuban

Yea. A cpl posts earlier I stated such.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

And the McGee stuff we just don't know because he wasn't played consistently.

The Wood stuff we know more about. Wood went from 34 mpg in January producing at a very high level (only one bad game that month) to 19 mpg for no rational reason behind it. Even if you don't like Wood, there really is no defense to doing that when we don't have any other big men to save the day.

They are literally just now experimenting Wood with McGee in small spurts when it doesn't matter anymore. Just awful mismanagement.

[saclare]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

And the McGee stuff we just don't know because he wasn't played consistently.

The Wood stuff we know more about. Wood went from 34 mpg in January producing at a very high level (only one bad game that month) to 19 mpg for no rational reason behind it. Even if you don't like Wood, there really is no defense to doing that when we don't have any other big men to save the day.

They are literally just now experimenting Wood with McGee in small spurts when it doesn't matter anymore. Just awful mismanagement.

We can only guess as to what traspired for these two this year.

No clue on McGee. My best guess is injury or just simply miscast. I'd love to know the true story on his recruitment and where the starting role story came from. It'd be hard to convince me it was Kidd at this point given the minutes and all...

Wood has been talked about ad nauseum on here. I'm just not losing sleep over this guy. I don't disagree that he should have gotten more consistent playing time. But we are talking about a guy on his 7th team in as many seasons. There's got to be more to it internally that we simply are not privy to...not sure what else we can go by.

I would think that in such a disappointing season that some animosity or ill will would have come to light. The fact that no player or coach said anything as to Wood's or McGee's playing time says a lot. Then again, I can also see where that wouldn't be their place or why no one would speak up.

Basically, I can see scenarios where it's not surprising to me each player's circumstance. We will never know the full reasoning...

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Let me tell ya something...prime Bruce Bowen wouldn't change our defense. It's a system problem. When an entire team sucks at defense, then it's the system more than anything. If guys aren't giving effort, coaching/system...every time.

But even more is that I have no clue how we're going to fix that issue this summer...especially if Irving stays at 50 mil per.

It's gonna be hard enough to find a defensive/rebounding big man let alone a bunch of good wing defenders.

[BigDog63]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Let me tell ya something...prime Bruce Bowen wouldn't change our defense. It's a system problem. When an entire team sucks at defense, then it's the system more than anything. If guys aren't giving effort, coaching/system...every time.

But even more is that I have no clue how we're going to fix that issue this summer...especially if Irving stays at 50 mil per.

It's gonna be hard enough to find a defensive/rebounding big man let alone a bunch of good wing defenders.

Which...they had (DFS)? Dinwiddie's defense is also missed. Mavs, when at full strength, were playing pretty good defense. So, not sure if it is a system problem, but will agree I see too many people either giving too little effort, or simply not being in the right place. Even during the last few games, where it seemed the effort was there, still saw too much standing around, giving up uncontested layups, etc.

[purplefrog]

DFS regressed on defense this year.
Bullock regressed on defense this year.
Maxi regressed on defense this year (I realize he had injury issues)
Mavs overall defense regressed this year.

Why? Here are some options (there are no doubt many others):
1. We lost a top-notch defensive floor general in Jalen Brunson
2. Last year was a fluke
3. Addition of Wood and/or McGee messed with the team chemistry
4. Luka's attitude and lack of conditioning has messed with the team chemistry
5. Kidd has changed the defense from last year, it has not worked, and he is too stubborn to go back to what was successful.
6. The FO has pissed off the entire team and no one wants to play for the petulant child Cuban anymore
7. Donnie Nelson spent a year learning black magic and voodoo and has put a curse on the Mavs.
8. None of the above. Or maybe all of the above. Mavs just stink to high heaven.

[saclare]

Originally Posted by purplefrog

DFS regressed on defense this year.
Bullock regressed on defense this year.
Maxi regressed on defense this year (I realize he had injury issues)
Mavs overall defense regressed this year.

Why? Here are some options (there are no doubt many others):
1. We lost a top-notch defensive floor general in Jalen Brunson
2. Last year was a fluke
3. Addition of Wood and/or McGee messed with the team chemistry
4. Luka's attitude and lack of conditioning has messed with the team chemistry
5. Kidd has changed the defense from last year, it has not worked, and he is too stubborn to go back to what was successful.
6. The FO has pissed off the entire team and no one wants to play for the petulant child Cuban anymore
7. Donnie Nelson spent a year learning black magic and voodoo and has put a curse on the Mavs.
8. None of the above. Or maybe all of the above. Mavs just stink to high heaven.

Top notch defensive floor general Jalen Brunson, eh?

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by saclare

Top notch defensive floor general Jalen Brunson, eh?

That made me laugh too. Glad I'm not the only one.

He was fundamentally sound defensively (even if he was limited on his size/length), and he was a hell of a leader/chemistry guy. Cuban done f@#%ed up in not re-signing him.

But he's not why our defense fell apart.

[saclare]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Let me tell ya something...prime Bruce Bowen wouldn't change our defense. It's a system problem. When an entire team sucks at defense, then it's the system more than anything. If guys aren't giving effort, coaching/system...every time.

But even more is that I have no clue how we're going to fix that issue this summer...especially if Irving stays at 50 mil per.

It's gonna be hard enough to find a defensive/rebounding big man let alone a bunch of good wing defenders.

It's a personnel issue. Point blank period. Same system had the Mavs playing pretty good defense on their way to the WCF last season.

If you have any reason to blame Kidd, then make sure that effort is the same or more for the FO and Cuban. That's not necessarily for you, but it sure does seem some here want to point one finger for this cluster.

[Melonhead]

TH Sr coming in at the wrong time with the wrong information to shit on Luka and Kyrie and even say there was nothing to fix with the roster prior to Kyrie trade

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by saclare

It's a personnel issue. Point blank period. Same system had the Mavs playing pretty good defense on their way to the WCF last season.

If you have any reason to blame Kidd, then make sure that effort is the same or more for the FO and Cuban. That's not necessarily for you, but it sure does seem some here want to point one finger for this cluster.

I disagree with the "point-blank period"

1) Rule/reffing changes saw the biggest year-over-year increase in OFFRTG, PPG, and TS% in league history. The NBA gimped defense. It wasn't just us that slid back. The NBA prioritized offense and made defenses harder.

2) But you are right, personnel contributed. Kidd somehow built a defense out of our crappy pieces. It was like a popsicle stick bridge that somehow supported the weight, but between rule changes and #3, it just fell apart.

3) Luka has been atrocious defensively. Some of that is his conditioning. Some of that is that he was run into the ground. He plays every summer and then he was run into the ground on offense the first 60 games.

4) Center - this is a personnel issue but also a rules change issue. The rule changes mean that the only way teams can have a change of keeping teams under 120pts is help-defense from the front court. Our PF/C position absolutely blows. I love Wood, but he is allergic to help defense. Kleber is gimpy. Powell was always the worst defensive big since LaFrentz.

Good teams have bigs that contribute and defend. Just look at the league's top teams right now

Nuggets - Jokic is MVP contenders and they have long, forwards that help defend
76ers - Embiid is dominant and they have length and defense at SF and PF
Bucks - best-in-the-league help defender, and epitome of long, strong defensive forward (Giannis)
Celts - Harford is okay. Tatum again is that long, strong defensive forward.
Cavs - Allen and Mobley
Grizz - good centers, perfect defensive support PF (Jackson Jr.)
Kings - Sabonis and Murray

You can't be a good team without being good at PF and C. Mavs just happen to be terrible at both.

[saclare]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I disagree with the "point-blank period"

1) Rule/reffing changes saw the biggest year-over-year increase in OFFRTG, PPG, and TS% in league history. The NBA gimped defense. It wasn't just us that slid back. The NBA prioritized offense and made defenses harder.

2) But you are right, personnel contributed. Kidd somehow built a defense out of our crappy pieces. It was like a popsicle stick bridge that somehow supported the weight, but between rule changes and #3, it just fell apart.

3) Luka has been atrocious defensively. Some of that is his conditioning. Some of that is that he was run into the ground. He plays every summer and then he was run into the ground on offense the first 60 games.

4) Center - this is a personnel issue but also a rules change issue. The rule changes mean that the only way teams can have a change of keeping teams under 120pts is help-defense from the front court. Our PF/C position absolutely blows. I love Wood, but he is allergic to help defense. Kleber is gimpy. Powell was always the worst defensive big since LaFrentz.

Good teams have bigs that contribute and defend. Just look at the league's top teams right now

Nuggets - Jokic is MVP contenders and they have long, forwards that help defend
76ers - Embiid is dominant and they have length and defense at SF and PF
Bucks - best-in-the-league help defender, and epitome of long, strong defensive forward (Giannis)
Celts - Harford is okay. Tatum again is that long, strong defensive forward.
Cavs - Allen and Mobley
Grizz - good centers, perfect defensive support PF (Jackson Jr.)
Kings - Sabonis and Murray

You can't be a good team without being good at PF and C. Mavs just happen to be terrible at both.

I can lend some credence to the rule changes. It's just that when other teams do it better with the same changes, I look back at personnel. You nailed it with Luka needing to be better and our big situation needing a desperate upgrade. I'd add a need for improvement on wing defense. Would like to add someone to compete with Green for a starting wing spot. Bullock should be relegated to the 2nd unit as he's limited in his offensive abilities.

Bullock and Powell are fine as depth guys, but they've started an insane amount of games this season out of pure necessity.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by saclare

It's a personnel issue. Point blank period. Same system had the Mavs playing pretty good defense on their way to the WCF last season.

If you have any reason to blame Kidd, then make sure that effort is the same or more for the FO and Cuban. That's not necessarily for you, but it sure does seem some here want to point one finger for this cluster.

I must have missed where ANYONE here supports Cuban/FO. I don't recall a single person who isn't pointing a finger at them as well.

[saclare]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

I must have missed where ANYONE here supports Cuban/FO. I don't recall a single person who isn't pointing a finger at them as well.

Oh there's plenty here who think if we replace Kidd then all is well. Like I said, it wasn't directed at you, but others who might misinterpret. It's honestly become more wholistic in terms of the blame, so not as recently apparent. That's a good thing tbh and all parties need to feel the same intensity. Cuban, Nico, Kidd, Luka, other players.

To be completely transparent, the majority of blame lands on Cuban and Nico from my perspective. However much you want to weight it, I don't care. To me, this season is damn near wholly on the FO. That became evident by the hail mary trade for Kyrie. It's fixable this offseason, but damn it if they don't have to hit a few nails directly.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

I must have missed where ANYONE here supports Cuban/FO. I don't recall a single person who isn't pointing a finger at them as well.

Because people don't actually read what you're saying anymore. Quick reaction is the name of the game vs nuanced thinking.

But hoping Cuban sells is whistling in the wind. What good does it do to wake up and bitch about it every day? And while he might control Nico, I don't think he's responsible for lineups.

This team has had so many problems this year on the court that to not unanimously blame Kidd is basically just total denial.

When Lincoln reinstated McClellan to run the Union army after multiple failures...his reasoning was "We must use the pieces we have."

Kidd has not properly or wisely used the pieces he has. Yes, the team needs upgrades, but there were fairly simple things he could have done that could have averted where we are now.

Playing Bullock 30mpg allowing him to take two and a half months off production-wise while shitting on Wood is a prime example of that.

If you don't hold a "defensive" player accountable, then why would they ever feel the need to play defense?

[saclare]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Because people don't actually read what you're saying anymore. Quick reaction is the name of the game vs nuanced thinking.

But hoping Cuban sells is whistling in the wind. What good does it do to wake up and bitch about it every day? And while he might control Nico, I don't think he's responsible for lineups.

This team has had so many problems this year on the court that to not unanimously blame Kidd is basically just total denial.

When Lincoln reinstated McClellan to run the Union army after multiple failures...his reasoning was "We must use the pieces we have."

Kidd has not properly or wisely used the pieces he has. Yes, the team needs upgrades, but there were fairly simple things he could have done that could have averted where we are now.

Playing Bullock 30mpg allowing him to take two and a half months off production-wise while shitting on Wood is a prime example of that.

If you don't hold a "defensive" player accountable, then why would they ever feel the need to play defense?

If we are on the topic of reading, here's what I added so as not to implicate SMC: "That's not necessarily for you, but it sure does seem some here want to point one finger for this cluster." edit: thanks for proving that, btw!

I only included Cuban given his involvement on decisions. I'm not dumb, he's going nowhere. The only hope, at least in the short term, is that both he and Nico learned their lessons the hard way this season.

Putting 100% blame on Kidd isn't just being in denial, it's not accurate and statically impossible lol. He gets his fair share, but as I stated before, Cuban and FO decisions and roster construction gets the majority of blame for me.

[EricaLubarsky]

Kidd did not coach the team today. He had a medical appointment.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Kidd did not coach the team today. He had a medical appointment.

A cognitive assessment? One can only hope. My favorite recent Kiddism was calling the timeout to kill our fastbreak in the 4th. Can?t remember the team. Priceless.

[EricaLubarsky]

https://twitter.com/MavsFilmRoom/sta...160678913?s=20

[Dallas41]

Yeah the Thunder lost again

Mavs still have a shot but need to go 3-0 and hope OKC only wins 1 more game at best.

I'd be more excited if they stick with the closing lineup of Mcgee, wood, Green, Luka and kyrie

That lineup at least based on its production from Sunday gives you a slim chance to win games simply because the rebounding improves

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

Yeah the Thunder lost again

Mavs still have a shot but need to go 3-0 and hope OKC only wins 1 more game at best.

I'd be more excited if they stick with the closing lineup of Mcgee, wood, Green, Luka and kyrie

That lineup at least based on its production from Sunday gives you a slim chance to win games simply because the rebounding improves

So you are telling me there's a chance.

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by Zeus

So you are telling me there's a chance.

Lol

Depends on if Luka decides he wants to go all out or not

I know a lot of fans on here want them to just give up and get a draft pick.

I personally think they can still make the playoffs and rebuild the roster via trades this summer.

Minnesota, New Orleans and LA can all be beaten in a playoff game by Dallas and of course the mavs can also loose to any of those teams.

But I have to believe that if Luka and kyrie somehow sneak into the play in tournament they could still be a dangerous matchup for anyone of those teams.

[saclare]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

Lol

Depends on if Luka decides he wants to go all out or not

I know a lot of fans on here want them to just give up and get a draft pick.

I personally think they can still make the playoffs and rebuild the roster via trades this summer.

Minnesota, New Orleans and LA can all be beaten in a playoff game by Dallas and of course the mavs can also loose to any of those teams.

But I have to believe that if Luka and kyrie somehow sneak into the play in tournament they could still be a dangerous matchup for anyone of those teams.

Having the top 10 pick goes a LOT further to rebuilding this roster. You are giving way too much credit to the FO for simply making trades or adding guys.

Mavs have an inherently flawed roster. That isn't going to change at this point in the season. I only hope they don't get hot here and lose the pick and follow that up by a loss in the POs, however far they get.

You can't sit here and say this team has a legitimate shot at the championship. Sure, we have two all-stars in Luka and Kyrie, followed by a bunch of shiny and even some lackluster turds. Even if they trimmed the rotation down, we have solid players but very easily exploitative.

[EricaLubarsky]

Just gotta lose tonight

Teams gonna start resting guys the next couple so this may be our best bet to secure that 9/10