01-27-2012, 05:38 PM
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#41
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,549
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Haywood is one of the most offensively inept players in the league. If it isnt a dunk, he's not likely converting it. Most of the time he touches the ball it ends in misadventure.
He's a pretty good man on defender against big guys and a good rebounder when he wants to be. Even there he runs over teammates to pad his rebounding stats once to twice per game. Let's not go overboard on the Haywood love.
Especially since it usually boils down to heaps of praise for the guy doing what he's paid very well to do. Rebound and play defense slightly above average(ly)
All while missing tons and tons of free throws.
Last edited by mac222b; 01-27-2012 at 05:41 PM.
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01-27-2012, 07:07 PM
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#42
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: uranus
Posts: 13,383
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mac222b
Haywood is one of the most offensively inept players in the league. If it isnt a dunk, he's not likely converting it. Most of the time he touches the ball it ends in misadventure.
He's a pretty good man on defender against big guys and a good rebounder when he wants to be. Even there he runs over teammates to pad his rebounding stats once to twice per game. Let's not go overboard on the Haywood love.
Especially since it usually boils down to heaps of praise for the guy doing what he's paid very well to do. Rebound and play defense slightly above average(ly)
All while missing tons and tons of free throws.
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I like Haywood expanding his arsenal offensively. We need that, to a certain degree. I don't want him going crazy with it but I'm glad he's bringing that out and not just doing it in practice.
I don't think anyone is going to go overboard with Haywood love here.
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you just proofed how stupid you are - CRAZYBOY
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01-27-2012, 10:39 PM
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#43
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Banned
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 11,074
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mac222b
Haywood is one of the most offensively inept players in the league. If it isnt a dunk, he's not likely converting it. Most of the time he touches the ball it ends in misadventure.
He's a pretty good man on defender against big guys and a good rebounder when he wants to be. Even there he runs over teammates to pad his rebounding stats once to twice per game. Let's not go overboard on the Haywood love.
Especially since it usually boils down to heaps of praise for the guy doing what he's paid very well to do. Rebound and play defense slightly above average(ly)
All while missing tons and tons of free throws.
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This year Wood has a .4 higher TRB% than Chandler. He also has a 2 point better DRtg.
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01-28-2012, 12:17 AM
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#44
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 8,668
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Right now, Haywood is grabbing 17.9% of the available rebounds, which is the highest TRB% of his career. Honestly, between the work he's doing on the boards and his continued good play on defense, I couldn't be happier right now with Haywood.
As an added bonus, his free throw shooting percentage for the season has risen up to 48.9% (it feels really weird to type that, by the way).
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Last edited by FINtastic; 01-28-2012 at 12:44 PM.
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01-28-2012, 09:13 AM
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#45
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Golden Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mac222b
Let's not go overboard on the Haywood love.
Especially since it usually boils down to heaps of praise for the guy doing what he's paid very well to do. Rebound and play defense slightly above average(ly)
All while missing tons and tons of free throws.
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Haywood deserves praise for the season he's had so far. He's been criticized a lot in the last two years, partly because of unreasonable expectations that might be based on what some fans consider a huge contract. Cuban and Donnie got a lot of flak for re-signing Haywood to his current deal, although his salary is completely understandable in today's league. There's a whole lot of centers making a whole lot more money than Haywood, e.g. Okur, Tyson, Noah, Varejao, Bogut, Howard, Horford, Gasol, Kaman, Okafor, Nene, Camby, Jefferson, Biedrins or Jordan. With the exception of Camby and Biedrins, all of the aforementioned players make $10+ million per season and thus significantly more than Haywood.
Then there are guys like Diop ($6.9m per year) or O'Neal ($6.2m per year) that are worse than Haywood and still get decent money. Or Gooden ($32m, 5 years) and Frye ($30m, 5 years) that got big contracts in 2010 as well.
In comparison, Haywood's $8.3 million per year honestly don't look too bad. That money doesn't get you a center averaging 10/10--unless you're lucky, sign a guy like Gortat for the MLE and, unlike Diop, see him turn into a a bargain.
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01-28-2012, 01:08 PM
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#46
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 17,873
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Forgot Haywood "love." What Haywood really deserves from the fanbase is for people to not unnecessarily bag on him all the time. And funnily, some of those unfair criticisms take the form of comparisons to Dampier, comparisons which unfairly bag on both players.
Like Damp, Haywood is a very big body, a good rebounder, and a defensive presence in the middle. He has limited offensive skills, but how many true 7-foot centers in the league have a significant offensive skillset? A handful? Simply having a guy who is 7 feet, muscular, and fairly active is something the Mavs should be grateful for.
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Last edited by LonghornDub; 01-28-2012 at 01:09 PM.
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01-28-2012, 01:22 PM
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#47
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Golden Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,534
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Tyson who? Yeah Haywood has been that good.
Dude is balling. For 8.3 mil a year compared to Tyson's 15 mil. No brainer
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01-28-2012, 09:09 PM
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#48
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: New Mexico Mountains
Posts: 2,385
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Put me down in full support of Big Wood this season.
I recall when we first traded for him, he started off great. Best Mavs center ever, mofre than a few of us said. Then, when they started Chandler in front of him, he just went into a funk...took half the season for him to mature into a half decent backup.
But where I expected that half assed guy to show up this season, we get the best Wood so far. If he plays this well all year, the Mavs will have to find another excuse if they don't excell in the post season. Just quit passing him the ball at the free throw line and expecting him to score from there.
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"He got dimes." Harrison Barnes on Luca Doncic during his 1st NBA training camp.
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01-28-2012, 09:42 PM
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#49
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: uranus
Posts: 13,383
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LonghornDub
Forgot Haywood "love." What Haywood really deserves from the fanbase is for people to not unnecessarily bag on him all the time. And funnily, some of those unfair criticisms take the form of comparisons to Dampier, comparisons which unfairly bag on both players.
Like Damp, Haywood is a very big body, a good rebounder, and a defensive presence in the middle. He has limited offensive skills, but how many true 7-foot centers in the league have a significant offensive skillset? A handful? Simply having a guy who is 7 feet, muscular, and fairly active is something the Mavs should be grateful for.
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You had me at funnily.
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you just proofed how stupid you are - CRAZYBOY
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05-09-2012, 07:24 PM
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#50
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Lazy Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Lazytown
Posts: 18,721
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Couldn't figure out where to post this, so I'll post it here:
I don't know how many people have heard Brendan's visits with Ben and Skin over the past few months, but I've really enjoyed them. He's a really sharp, funny guy.
Check out the one from today.
Last edited by jthig32; 05-09-2012 at 07:24 PM.
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05-09-2012, 07:41 PM
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#51
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: VA
Posts: 997
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jthig32
Couldn't figure out where to post this, so I'll post it here:
I don't know how many people have heard Brendan's visits with Ben and Skin over the past few months, but I've really enjoyed them. He's a really sharp, funny guy.
Check out the one from today.
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Yet as a basketball player he's a joke
Last edited by jthig32; 05-09-2012 at 07:47 PM.
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05-09-2012, 07:41 PM
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#52
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Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 761
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I think Wood might be a better radio guy/announcer than he is basketball player.
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05-09-2012, 11:15 PM
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#53
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Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 171
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Honestly, the only problem with wood is consistency. He has moments of great usually followed by just awful play. If he wasn't getting paid so much it wouldn't be such a big deal. Then again, centers always seem to get a little more if they are traditional bigs. Whatya gonna do? Sometimes he just looks lost and uncoordinated and then the very next play drives the lane and slams with authority.
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05-10-2012, 01:31 AM
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#54
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Guru
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Brasil
Posts: 15,401
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Haywoods main problem is that there arent so many big guys in the league where he can show his skills...
He is good/great against the few big center and he is pretty much useless against the athletic PF type center
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05-10-2012, 08:17 AM
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#55
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 22,955
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sefant77
He is good/great against the few big center and he is pretty much useless against the athletic PF type center
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Then why did he suck against non-athletic Kendrick Perkins? My biggest issue is that with all of the criticism of the Mavs being old and slow, at least in the playoffs, Haywood looked the oldest and slowest.
__________________
"Cream of the crop gon' rise to the top." -Jaden Hardy
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05-10-2012, 08:41 AM
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#56
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Lazy Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Lazytown
Posts: 18,721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sefant77
Haywoods main problem is that there arent so many big guys in the league where he can show his skills...
He is good/great against the few big center and he is pretty much useless against the athletic PF type center
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Except last year when he guarded Aldridge better than Chandler....
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05-10-2012, 08:50 AM
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#57
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Guru
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 40,410
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Haywood's problem is about the same as the dirksters. He is a good on ball defender but a pretty poor help defender. He also isn't a very good shot blocker because he is so slow off his feet, not a good pnr defender and doesn't play above the rim.
Other than that he's great.
__________________
"Yankees fans who say “flags fly forever’’ are right, you never lose that. It reinforces all the good things about being a fan. ... It’s black and white. You (the Mavs) won a title. That’s it and no one can say s--- about it.’’
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05-10-2012, 09:21 AM
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#58
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: uranus
Posts: 13,383
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Haywood still has a tendency to take you to a point where you think he has turned a corner, he shows flashes then for whatever reason the intensity drops off and he takes a step backwards. Sometimes it lasts a week or so, sometimes it's all in one game. I have no hope for him to turn that corner at this point.
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you just proofed how stupid you are - CRAZYBOY
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05-10-2012, 09:32 AM
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#59
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 22,955
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dude1394
Haywood's problem is about the same as the dirksters. He is a good on ball defender but a pretty poor help defender. He also isn't a very good shot blocker because he is so slow off his feet, not a good pnr defender and doesn't play above the rim.
Other than that he's great.
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You nailed it, and he also sometimes gets lazy and doesn't get under the basket to protect the rim. I defended this guy for most of the season, but he came up short this season when it really counted. I didn't hear of any new serious injury he was playing through. The 5 position can Not collapse like that because, then it puts even more pressure on Dirk.
Hard to gauge how much blame to put on the lockout in regards to a player's overall performance this season. All things considered, I'm 50/50 on Haywood. I just don't want to see the same type of playoff performance this time next year unless you can get an upgrade. I just don't see Ian taking us to the promised as the starting center until he learns to stop accumulating stupid fouls.
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"Cream of the crop gon' rise to the top." -Jaden Hardy
Last edited by DevinHarriswillstart; 05-10-2012 at 09:36 AM.
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05-10-2012, 09:35 AM
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#60
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 22,955
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SMC0007
Haywood still has a tendency to take you to a point where you think he has turned a corner, he shows flashes then for whatever reason the intensity drops off and he takes a step backwards. Sometimes it lasts a week or so, sometimes it's all in one game. I have no hope for him to turn that corner at this point.
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He was fantastic in the first quarter or so of game 1. From then on...sigh. Looked like he lost all motivation. He wasn't the only though, I'll give him that.
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"Cream of the crop gon' rise to the top." -Jaden Hardy
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05-10-2012, 10:00 AM
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#61
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Golden Member
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: TX
Posts: 1,868
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dude1394
Haywood's problem is about the same as the dirksters. He is a good on ball defender but a pretty poor help defender. He also isn't a very good shot blocker because he is so slow off his feet, not a good pnr defender and doesn't play above the rim.
Other than that he's great.
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Yea, he also has a tendency to think he's an offensive player. He gets the ball and thinks, "here's my time to show them what I have." He usually shows what he doesn't have, but that doesn't stop him from trying it again. Most centers of his skill set know enough to get the ball in someone else's hands--anyone!
I would almost prefer if he just alerts the team in advance that he's going to turn the ball over so they can get back on defense, then he can just hand it to an opposing player. A controlled turnover.
Last edited by jacktruth; 05-10-2012 at 10:01 AM.
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05-10-2012, 01:54 PM
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#62
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Banned
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Italy
Posts: 1,003
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no more 'wood please...
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05-10-2012, 02:10 PM
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#63
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 41.21.1
Posts: 36,143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffViggiano
no more 'wood please...
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That's what she said...?
__________________
These days being a fan is a competition to see who can be the most upset when
your team loses. That proves you love winning more. That's how it works.
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05-10-2012, 02:25 PM
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#64
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Member
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 288
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I'll be much happier if I never watch Brendan Haywood play offense again. I hated when he somehow got the ball and would call his own number. You could see it coming about 4 seconds in advance. It is infuriating to see him try any shot that isn't a dunk.
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05-10-2012, 02:43 PM
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#65
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,938
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Underdog
That's what she said...?
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"that's what" - she
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05-10-2012, 03:11 PM
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#66
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Guru
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 40,410
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Im not nearly as upset with his offense as I am his slowness of feet and especially his lack of quickness off the floor. He has never been thrown anything close to an oop because he doesn't play above the rim at all. The telling thing to me is that he wins at best 5% of tips. He is really slow off the floor.
__________________
"Yankees fans who say “flags fly forever’’ are right, you never lose that. It reinforces all the good things about being a fan. ... It’s black and white. You (the Mavs) won a title. That’s it and no one can say s--- about it.’’
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05-11-2012, 11:54 PM
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#67
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Golden Member
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 1,648
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart
Hard to gauge how much blame to put on the lockout in regards to a player's overall performance this season. All things considered, I'm 50/50 on Haywood. I just don't want to see the same type of playoff performance this time next year unless you can get an upgrade. I just don't see Ian taking us to the promised as the starting center until he learns to stop accumulating stupid fouls.
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True...but...Ian may cost us a few points per game with stupid fouls, but at least he doesn't cost us 5-6 points per game from the line, not to mention being so utterly awful at the line that we don't even play him when the game is close. I really hope the next FT attempt I see from Brendan Haywood comes after he is fouled by a Dallas Maverick.
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05-12-2012, 12:15 AM
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#68
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 41.21.1
Posts: 36,143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobatundi
True...but...Ian may cost us a few points per game with stupid fouls, but at least he doesn't cost us 5-6 points per game from the line, not to mention being so utterly awful at the line that we don't even play him when the game is close. I really hope the next FT attempt I see from Brendan Haywood comes after he is fouled by a Dallas Maverick.
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To be fair, Haywood shot 5-8 (63%) from the charity stripe in the 2012 playoffs...
Although Mahinmi shot 11-13 (85%), so we obviously have better options when it comes to offense.
__________________
These days being a fan is a competition to see who can be the most upset when
your team loses. That proves you love winning more. That's how it works.
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05-12-2012, 12:40 AM
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#69
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Golden Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tyler
Posts: 1,656
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He's just too butter fingered. Bobbles and loses too many passes near the rim, tries to get hold of a rebound that bounces on the floor and loses it out of bounds. Doesn't look for which opponent to block out, doesn't block out. Doesn't anticipate where he is going to need to be on defense, doesn't rotate fast enough when he needs to help. Too slow running from one end to the other, which hurts both offense and defense. I just don't see that he helps us much except vs teams with really big centers like LA and maybe Memphis(Gasol), but he is too slow to play much vs Memphis.
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05-13-2012, 08:02 AM
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#70
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Golden Member
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 1,648
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Underdog
To be fair, Haywood shot 5-8 (63%) from the charity stripe in the 2012 playoffs...
Although Mahinmi shot 11-13 (85%), so we obviously have better options when it comes to offense.
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Haywood shot 47% from the line for the regular season, which is much more indicative of his ability there than a small sample from the playoffs (5-8 means he hit one more than you'd expect out of those 8, which I chalk up to randomness and not any improvement on his part).
And don't get me started on our Starting Center attempting 8 FTs in 4 games. That's pathetic.
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05-14-2012, 07:29 PM
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#71
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 22
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it would help if he tried jumping when rebounding
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05-14-2012, 11:11 PM
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#72
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Platinum Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: New York City
Posts: 2,348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by balldontliez
it would help if he tried jumping when rebounding
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The least of his problems.
__________________
"What Dirk is doing is legendary stuff, this is a joke how good this man is" - JVG
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05-14-2012, 11:14 PM
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#73
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Inactive.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 41,986
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not a way to end a contract season.
then again I did have a damp sighting the other night. The league is desperate for even passable big men.
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05-15-2012, 12:18 AM
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#74
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 7,002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky
not a way to end a contract season.
then again I did have a damp sighting the other night. The league is desperate for even passable big men.
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Disagree, right now there are many more good bigs than 2s/3s, the thing is lots of them are on the same teams (LAL/Indy/Chicago/ATL/Utah/Memphis)
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05-20-2012, 03:12 AM
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#75
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 416
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sefant77
Haywoods main problem is that there arent so many big guys in the league where he can show his skills...He is good/great against the few big center and he is pretty much useless against the athletic PF type center
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His type of center is a thing of the past. A dinosuar. You see fewer and fewer on teams. To justify their place on rosters they need to have more of a skill set than just being big.
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