What is really going on with Brendan Haywood - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

mac222b · 01-27-2012, 05:38 PM

Haywood is one of the most offensively inept players in the league. If it isnt a dunk, he's not likely converting it. Most of the time he touches the ball it ends in misadventure.
He's a pretty good man on defender against big guys and a good rebounder when he wants to be. Even there he runs over teammates to pad his rebounding stats once to twice per game. Let's not go overboard on the Haywood love.

Especially since it usually boils down to heaps of praise for the guy doing what he's paid very well to do. Rebound and play defense slightly above average(ly)
All while missing tons and tons of free throws.

SMC0007 · 01-27-2012, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

Haywood is one of the most offensively inept players in the league. If it isnt a dunk, he's not likely converting it. Most of the time he touches the ball it ends in misadventure.
He's a pretty good man on defender against big guys and a good rebounder when he wants to be. Even there he runs over teammates to pad his rebounding stats once to twice per game. Let's not go overboard on the Haywood love.

Especially since it usually boils down to heaps of praise for the guy doing what he's paid very well to do. Rebound and play defense slightly above average(ly)
All while missing tons and tons of free throws.

I like Haywood expanding his arsenal offensively. We need that, to a certain degree. I don't want him going crazy with it but I'm glad he's bringing that out and not just doing it in practice.

I don't think anyone is going to go overboard with Haywood love here.

CadBane · 01-27-2012, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

Haywood is one of the most offensively inept players in the league. If it isnt a dunk, he's not likely converting it. Most of the time he touches the ball it ends in misadventure.
He's a pretty good man on defender against big guys and a good rebounder when he wants to be. Even there he runs over teammates to pad his rebounding stats once to twice per game. Let's not go overboard on the Haywood love.

Especially since it usually boils down to heaps of praise for the guy doing what he's paid very well to do. Rebound and play defense slightly above average(ly)
All while missing tons and tons of free throws.

This year Wood has a .4 higher TRB% than Chandler. He also has a 2 point better DRtg.

FINtastic · 01-28-2012, 12:17 AM

Right now, Haywood is grabbing 17.9% of the available rebounds, which is the highest TRB% of his career. Honestly, between the work he's doing on the boards and his continued good play on defense, I couldn't be happier right now with Haywood.

As an added bonus, his free throw shooting percentage for the season has risen up to 48.9% (it feels really weird to type that, by the way).

dalger · 01-28-2012, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

Let's not go overboard on the Haywood love.

Especially since it usually boils down to heaps of praise for the guy doing what he's paid very well to do. Rebound and play defense slightly above average(ly)
All while missing tons and tons of free throws.

Haywood deserves praise for the season he's had so far. He's been criticized a lot in the last two years, partly because of unreasonable expectations that might be based on what some fans consider a huge contract. Cuban and Donnie got a lot of flak for re-signing Haywood to his current deal, although his salary is completely understandable in today's league. There's a whole lot of centers making a whole lot more money than Haywood, e.g. Okur, Tyson, Noah, Varejao, Bogut, Howard, Horford, Gasol, Kaman, Okafor, Nene, Camby, Jefferson, Biedrins or Jordan. With the exception of Camby and Biedrins, all of the aforementioned players make $10+ million per season and thus significantly more than Haywood.

Then there are guys like Diop ($6.9m per year) or O'Neal ($6.2m per year) that are worse than Haywood and still get decent money. Or Gooden ($32m, 5 years) and Frye ($30m, 5 years) that got big contracts in 2010 as well.

In comparison, Haywood's $8.3 million per year honestly don't look too bad. That money doesn't get you a center averaging 10/10--unless you're lucky, sign a guy like Gortat for the MLE and, unlike Diop, see him turn into a a bargain.

LonghornDub · 01-28-2012, 01:08 PM

Forgot Haywood "love." What Haywood really deserves from the fanbase is for people to not unnecessarily bag on him all the time. And funnily, some of those unfair criticisms take the form of comparisons to Dampier, comparisons which unfairly bag on both players.

Like Damp, Haywood is a very big body, a good rebounder, and a defensive presence in the middle. He has limited offensive skills, but how many true 7-foot centers in the league have a significant offensive skillset? A handful? Simply having a guy who is 7 feet, muscular, and fairly active is something the Mavs should be grateful for.

oilfieldtrash · 01-28-2012, 01:22 PM

Tyson who? Yeah Haywood has been that good.

Dude is balling. For 8.3 mil a year compared to Tyson's 15 mil. No brainer

G-Man · 01-28-2012, 09:09 PM

Put me down in full support of Big Wood this season.

I recall when we first traded for him, he started off great. Best Mavs center ever, mofre than a few of us said. Then, when they started Chandler in front of him, he just went into a funk...took half the season for him to mature into a half decent backup.

But where I expected that half assed guy to show up this season, we get the best Wood so far. If he plays this well all year, the Mavs will have to find another excuse if they don't excell in the post season. Just quit passing him the ball at the free throw line and expecting him to score from there.

SMC0007 · 01-28-2012, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Forgot Haywood "love." What Haywood really deserves from the fanbase is for people to not unnecessarily bag on him all the time. And funnily, some of those unfair criticisms take the form of comparisons to Dampier, comparisons which unfairly bag on both players.

Like Damp, Haywood is a very big body, a good rebounder, and a defensive presence in the middle. He has limited offensive skills, but how many true 7-foot centers in the league have a significant offensive skillset? A handful? Simply having a guy who is 7 feet, muscular, and fairly active is something the Mavs should be grateful for.

You had me at funnily.

jthig32 · 05-09-2012, 07:24 PM

Couldn't figure out where to post this, so I'll post it here:

I don't know how many people have heard Brendan's visits with Ben and Skin over the past few months, but I've really enjoyed them. He's a really sharp, funny guy.

Check out the one from today.

Dale4Saul2Red0 · 05-09-2012, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Couldn't figure out where to post this, so I'll post it here:

I don't know how many people have heard Brendan's visits with Ben and Skin over the past few months, but I've really enjoyed them. He's a really sharp, funny guy.

Check out the one from today.

Yet as a basketball player he's a joke

vinylstar · 05-09-2012, 07:41 PM

I think Wood might be a better radio guy/announcer than he is basketball player.

ibivibiv · 05-09-2012, 11:15 PM

Honestly, the only problem with wood is consistency. He has moments of great usually followed by just awful play. If he wasn't getting paid so much it wouldn't be such a big deal. Then again, centers always seem to get a little more if they are traditional bigs. Whatya gonna do? Sometimes he just looks lost and uncoordinated and then the very next play drives the lane and slams with authority.

sefant77 · 05-10-2012, 01:31 AM

Haywoods main problem is that there arent so many big guys in the league where he can show his skills...

He is good/great against the few big center and he is pretty much useless against the athletic PF type center

DevinHarriswillstart · 05-10-2012, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

He is good/great against the few big center and he is pretty much useless against the athletic PF type center

Then why did he suck against non-athletic Kendrick Perkins? My biggest issue is that with all of the criticism of the Mavs being old and slow, at least in the playoffs, Haywood looked the oldest and slowest.

jthig32 · 05-10-2012, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

Haywoods main problem is that there arent so many big guys in the league where he can show his skills...

He is good/great against the few big center and he is pretty much useless against the athletic PF type center

Except last year when he guarded Aldridge better than Chandler....

dude1394 · 05-10-2012, 08:50 AM

Haywood's problem is about the same as the dirksters. He is a good on ball defender but a pretty poor help defender. He also isn't a very good shot blocker because he is so slow off his feet, not a good pnr defender and doesn't play above the rim.

Other than that he's great.

SMC0007 · 05-10-2012, 09:21 AM

Haywood still has a tendency to take you to a point where you think he has turned a corner, he shows flashes then for whatever reason the intensity drops off and he takes a step backwards. Sometimes it lasts a week or so, sometimes it's all in one game. I have no hope for him to turn that corner at this point.

DevinHarriswillstart · 05-10-2012, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

Haywood's problem is about the same as the dirksters. He is a good on ball defender but a pretty poor help defender. He also isn't a very good shot blocker because he is so slow off his feet, not a good pnr defender and doesn't play above the rim.

Other than that he's great.

You nailed it, and he also sometimes gets lazy and doesn't get under the basket to protect the rim. I defended this guy for most of the season, but he came up short this season when it really counted. I didn't hear of any new serious injury he was playing through. The 5 position can Not collapse like that because, then it puts even more pressure on Dirk.

Hard to gauge how much blame to put on the lockout in regards to a player's overall performance this season. All things considered, I'm 50/50 on Haywood. I just don't want to see the same type of playoff performance this time next year unless you can get an upgrade. I just don't see Ian taking us to the promised as the starting center until he learns to stop accumulating stupid fouls.

DevinHarriswillstart · 05-10-2012, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Haywood still has a tendency to take you to a point where you think he has turned a corner, he shows flashes then for whatever reason the intensity drops off and he takes a step backwards. Sometimes it lasts a week or so, sometimes it's all in one game. I have no hope for him to turn that corner at this point.

He was fantastic in the first quarter or so of game 1. From then on...sigh. Looked like he lost all motivation. He wasn't the only though, I'll give him that.

jacktruth · 05-10-2012, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

Haywood's problem is about the same as the dirksters. He is a good on ball defender but a pretty poor help defender. He also isn't a very good shot blocker because he is so slow off his feet, not a good pnr defender and doesn't play above the rim.

Other than that he's great.

Yea, he also has a tendency to think he's an offensive player. He gets the ball and thinks, "here's my time to show them what I have." He usually shows what he doesn't have, but that doesn't stop him from trying it again. Most centers of his skill set know enough to get the ball in someone else's hands--anyone!

I would almost prefer if he just alerts the team in advance that he's going to turn the ball over so they can get back on defense, then he can just hand it to an opposing player. A controlled turnover.

JeffViggiano · 05-10-2012, 01:54 PM

no more 'wood please...

Underdog · 05-10-2012, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffViggiano

no more 'wood please...

That's what she said...?

Scott McGuire · 05-10-2012, 02:25 PM

I'll be much happier if I never watch Brendan Haywood play offense again. I hated when he somehow got the ball and would call his own number. You could see it coming about 4 seconds in advance. It is infuriating to see him try any shot that isn't a dunk.

saclare · 05-10-2012, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

That's what she said...?

"that's what" - she

dude1394 · 05-10-2012, 03:11 PM

Im not nearly as upset with his offense as I am his slowness of feet and especially his lack of quickness off the floor. He has never been thrown anything close to an oop because he doesn't play above the rim at all. The telling thing to me is that he wins at best 5% of tips. He is really slow off the floor.

bobatundi · 05-11-2012, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Hard to gauge how much blame to put on the lockout in regards to a player's overall performance this season. All things considered, I'm 50/50 on Haywood. I just don't want to see the same type of playoff performance this time next year unless you can get an upgrade. I just don't see Ian taking us to the promised as the starting center until he learns to stop accumulating stupid fouls.

True...but...Ian may cost us a few points per game with stupid fouls, but at least he doesn't cost us 5-6 points per game from the line, not to mention being so utterly awful at the line that we don't even play him when the game is close. I really hope the next FT attempt I see from Brendan Haywood comes after he is fouled by a Dallas Maverick.

Underdog · 05-12-2012, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobatundi

True...but...Ian may cost us a few points per game with stupid fouls, but at least he doesn't cost us 5-6 points per game from the line, not to mention being so utterly awful at the line that we don't even play him when the game is close. I really hope the next FT attempt I see from Brendan Haywood comes after he is fouled by a Dallas Maverick.

To be fair, Haywood shot 5-8 (63%) from the charity stripe in the 2012 playoffs...

Although Mahinmi shot 11-13 (85%), so we obviously have better options when it comes to offense.

tgfan · 05-12-2012, 12:40 AM

He's just too butter fingered. Bobbles and loses too many passes near the rim, tries to get hold of a rebound that bounces on the floor and loses it out of bounds. Doesn't look for which opponent to block out, doesn't block out. Doesn't anticipate where he is going to need to be on defense, doesn't rotate fast enough when he needs to help. Too slow running from one end to the other, which hurts both offense and defense. I just don't see that he helps us much except vs teams with really big centers like LA and maybe Memphis(Gasol), but he is too slow to play much vs Memphis.

bobatundi · 05-13-2012, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

To be fair, Haywood shot 5-8 (63%) from the charity stripe in the 2012 playoffs...

Although Mahinmi shot 11-13 (85%), so we obviously have better options when it comes to offense.

Haywood shot 47% from the line for the regular season, which is much more indicative of his ability there than a small sample from the playoffs (5-8 means he hit one more than you'd expect out of those 8, which I chalk up to randomness and not any improvement on his part).

And don't get me started on our Starting Center attempting 8 FTs in 4 games. That's pathetic.

balldontliez · 05-14-2012, 07:29 PM

it would help if he tried jumping when rebounding

GhostFace · 05-14-2012, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by balldontliez

it would help if he tried jumping when rebounding

The least of his problems.

EricaLubarsky · 05-14-2012, 11:14 PM

not a way to end a contract season.

then again I did have a damp sighting the other night. The league is desperate for even passable big men.

mavs777 · 05-15-2012, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

not a way to end a contract season.

then again I did have a damp sighting the other night. The league is desperate for even passable big men.

Disagree, right now there are many more good bigs than 2s/3s, the thing is lots of them are on the same teams (LAL/Indy/Chicago/ATL/Utah/Memphis)

wilmtalk · 05-20-2012, 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

Haywoods main problem is that there arent so many big guys in the league where he can show his skills...He is good/great against the few big center and he is pretty much useless against the athletic PF type center

His type of center is a thing of the past. A dinosuar. You see fewer and fewer on teams. To justify their place on rosters they need to have more of a skill set than just being big.