Guess I'm an idiot?

[fluid.forty.one]

You guys think the Mavs have it bad? Here in Portland, Blazers fans haven't seen a first round series win in like 12 years. What a bunch of whiny, entitled BS in this thread. Wow.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

And I'm sure we all like chocolate ice cream. At some point you have to nut up and make a choice. I'm sure the Cowboys would have liked to have had that second round draft choice. Instead, they decided that they preferred Morris Claiborne, the "luxury asset" (to help you understand what I mean by that), and could let the pick go.

You're really just spitting platitudes and cliches at this point. You do not have to "make a choice" between either going all-in with a very restrictive luxury tax or hanging on to gratuitous amounts of "flexibility." That doesn't make any sense at all. You make a series of discrete choices about individual matters. And if you do it correctly, those choices ultimately cause you to have both assets and and flexibility to account for future uncertainties.

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Where did "indiscriminate" and "incredibly punitive" come into play? Those are both entirely judgmental.

You don't know much about the new luxury tax if you don't realize that it's incredibly punitive. And yes, spending into that new luxury tax for several years is absolutely indiscriminate spending, given the repeater provisions.

Originally Posted by chumdawg

We talk a lot about spending, with Cuban. We don't talk much about revenue. His revenues are "well above" that of the average NBA team, are they not?

So are the Lakers' revenues, and they've also had the foresight to cut salary all year to preemptively deal with the new CBA. But I'm sure they're just being cheap too.

This is a results-oriented argument. I'm not going to say you don't like Cuban outright--although that may be true-- but you pride yourself in your skepticism about his spending and decisionmaking. That's all this is. You haven't looked at the evidence and allowed that to guide your conclusion; you started with your conclusion and are trying to force the (mis)information into spots where it doesn't fit.

That's why thig called you a "troll" for saying that he needs to "spend something." He has spent something. He's spent a ton and will continue to do so. You're overreaching big time.

[howdoesmydirktaste]

If I were a betting man I would say that last years championship Mavericks would not have won it in a lockout shortened season. I'm grateful that we got our ring. If we do it correctly we may only have a few players over 30 next year. We will be young and fast. I could live with Dirk being our slowest player.

[Murphy3]

Let's just hope it doesn't get worse from here.. It very easily could. It could get much, much worse.

[GhostFace]

Originally Posted by Underdog

That was under the old CBA rules - the new rules were meant to punish teams that spend big to win rings (that's why the Lakers have to make a choice between Gasol and Bynum this summer...)

UD can you please elaborate a bit more on the LA situation?

I am trying to understand the new CBA and from what I am reading in this thread... are you saying that because the luxury tax on Bynum and Gasol are so high they need to choose between one or the other in order to remain under cap?

Edit: Is their a luxury tax cap and a salary cap?

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by GhostFace

UD can you please elaborate a bit more on the LA situation?

I am trying to understand the new CBA and from what I am reading in this thread... are you saying that because the luxury tax on Bynum and Gasol are so high they need to choose between one or the other in order to remain under cap?

They traded Odom and Fisher for Luxury Tax relief. Hell, they gave up the first round pick they got for Odom just to unload Fish's salary.

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

You're really just spitting platitudes and cliches at this point. You do not have to "make a choice" between either going all-in with a very restrictive luxury tax or hanging on to gratuitous amounts of "flexibility." That doesn't make any sense at all. You make a series of discrete choices about individual matters. And if you do it correctly, those choices ultimately cause you to have both assets and and flexibility to account for future uncertainties.

And you're pretty much arguing for pie in the sky.

You don't know much about the new luxury tax if you don't realize that it's incredibly punitive. And yes, spending into that new luxury tax for several years is absolutely indiscriminate spending, given the repeater provisions.

My point is that "indiscriminate" and "punitive" have different meanings in different contexts. It might be indiscriminate spending for a hand-to-mouth sort of person to drop an entire paycheck on a "luxury" item, while the same purchase might be routine for a wealthier sort.

[dude1394]

Guess stein is an idiot as well.
http://espn.go.com/nba/dailydime/_/p...505/daily-dime

"These are the circumstances that everyone in Big D at least understood, if not accepted, when the lockout ended in December and culture-changing center Tyson Chandler was sign-and-traded to New York. The failed gamble on Lamar Odom -- billed as Dallas' answer to a wild card like Harden for a season -- realistically snuffed out any hope of a playoff run of any substance … which only strengthened the notion around the league that the Mavs' primary objective this season was winning the offseason.

Only now the offseason has arrived faster than any Mav imagined even in their nightmare scenarios. Nowitzki, for starters, insisted from the interview podium that he couldn't yet process the idea that title-team stalwarts such as Jason Terry and Shawn Marion might have made their final appearances in Mavs colors on Cinco de Mayo, despite Dallas' well-chronicled intentions to clear as much salary-cap space as possible in July to try to steal North Texas' own Deron Williams away from the Brooklyn Nets.

"The end kind of snuck up on us now," Nowitzki said.

Carlisle tried to sound an optimistic note, comparing Chandler's departure to Steve Nash's in 2004: "I remember when Nash left, everyone thought this thing was over. But Donnie Nelson and Mark Cuban, they have a resourcefulness about them."

The reality, though, is that, to use the local football parlance, Dallas has seen the goalposts move since letting Chandler go. Sources close to the situation told ESPN.com this week that the Mavs were convinced early on in their 2012 planning that having sufficient salary-cap space to be able to legitimately recruit Dwight Howard alongside Williams was the surest route to landing Williams. The problem there, of course, is Howard's unexpected decision in March to delay his free agency to 2013 has left Williams solo on the Mavs' list of "big fish" -- to use a term both Nelson and Nowitzki have mentioned to local reporters -- while they remain well shy of possessing the requisite trade assets to offer Orlando for Dwight via trade.

And it naturally doesn't take a great leap from there to start asking yourself if a frontcourt duo of Nowitzki and Chandler, had Dallas independently elected to spend what it took to keep them together, might have appealed to D-Will more than any other potential tandem of teammates he's offered this summer now that hooking up with Howard is no longer feasible.

We just don't know yet.

I've believed from the start that Cuban, after delivering Dallas its first NBA crown and spending millions in luxury tax over his decade-plus in charge to get there, has more than earned the right to try to build a team any new way he sees fit. Yet the huge risk remains for him that Dallas has no fish of consequence to pursue if Williams chooses to stay with the Nets, who can offer one more season contractually than the Mavs along with added marketing opportunities because of their new address.

One source well-acquainted with Williams' thinking told ESPN.com this weekend that the Mavericks, in their current state, have no better than a "50-50 shot" of getting D-Will's signature in July ... despite the fact that the Nets aren't any closer to landing Howard than they are."

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

You guys think the Mavs have it bad? Here in Portland, Blazers fans haven't seen a first round series win in like 12 years. What a bunch of whiny, entitled BS in this thread. Wow.

So how long does it take for Mavs fans to be upset with the direction the Mavs organization is taking? How long does the championship run of last year last? Do we wait 12 years? Its not about being ungrateful. I've rooted for the Mavs ever since they were terrible. I didn't get a privilege to root for the 80's Mavs. I became a Mavs fan in '92 and have been ever since. But I will NEVER be satisfied with a 1st round exit. Especially after a season where we won a championship and our championship team wasn't brought back. You may be ok with mediocrity but I don't think its fair to ask fans to be ok with it.

[xrobx]

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

So how long does it take for Mavs fans to be upset with the direction the Mavs organization is taking? How long does the championship run of last year last? Do we wait 12 years? Its not about being ungrateful. I've rooted for the Mavs ever since they were terrible. I didn't get a privilege to root for the 80's Mavs. I became a Mavs fan in '92 and have been ever since. But I will NEVER be satisfied with a 1st round exit. Especially after a season where we won a championship and our championship team wasn't brought back. You may be ok with mediocrity but I don't think its fair to ask fans to be ok with it.

Call me when we miss the playoffs after a normal regular 82 game season and we'll talk about being upset, heck, call me when we win less than 50 games in an 82 game season

we win 1 title and now you guys think we're the yankees or something

[Bayliss]

Damn straight. There has been 9 teams win titles in the past 31 years of basketball.

Lakers
Celtics
76ers
Pistons
Bulls
Spurs
Heat
Rockets
Mavs

And now Mav fans are b*tchin' about a sorry year? Geez. The Mavs were once the Utah Jazz realm. A perennial playoff contender with no hardware. Now THAT is suffering. The Mavs Mavs were once the Charlotte LOLCats. Now that is suffering.

The Mavericks have finally done it. And the fans aren't satisfied unless they win one EVERY year? GTFO. Be proud.

Even Dirk today said: "Sorry we couldn't advance farther. We will reload and come back stronger next year. Bleed Blue." Sometimes when you fire everything you've got like the Mavs did last year. You can't assume it is like in the damn movies where bullets continue to magically appear. In real life when you give it everything you've got, you have to take a breather and make the next charge. The Mavs are waiting for the next charge. And it will come again.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

You guys think the Mavs have it bad? Here in Portland, Blazers fans haven't seen a first round series win in like 12 years. What a bunch of whiny, entitled BS in this thread. Wow.

While I generally agree with this, the team did just get swept. Fans can bitch for a few days, but then I hope it subsides.

Hey, the good news is the team will get an overhaul. Whatever fans didn't like last season will in some way or another be altered next year.

[b_o_r]

Originally Posted by Bayliss

Damn straight. There has been 9 teams win titles in the past 31 years of basketball.

Lakers
Celtics
76ers
Pistons
Bulls
Spurs
Heat
Rockets
Mavs

2/3rds of the championships have been won by 3 teams (Lakers/Celtics/Bulls). It hard to repeat let alone win one.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Bayliss

Even Dirk today said: "Sorry we couldn't advance farther. We will reload and come back stronger next year. Bleed Blue." Sometimes when you fire everything you've got like the Mavs did last year. You can't assume it is like in the damn movies where bullets continue to magically appear. In real life when you give it everything you've got, you have to take a breather and make the next charge. The Mavs are waiting for the next charge. And it will come again.

That's exactly why the Spurs don't have any back-to-back championships - it's hard to repeat, but a smart team can at least keep themselves within striking distance over the long term.

[xrobx]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

While I generally agree with this, the team did just get swept. Fans can bitch for a few days, but then I hope it subsides.

Hey, the good news is the team will get an overhaul. Whatever fans didn't like last season will in some way or another be altered next year.

It'll subside when D-Will arrives. I shudder to think how bad it'll get if he doesn't.

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by xrobx

Call me when we miss the playoffs after a normal regular 82 game season and we'll talk about being upset, heck, call me when we win less than 50 games in an 82 game season

we win 1 title and now you guys think we're the yankees or something

No its not about being the Yankees but we also aren't the Cleveland Browns. I'm more frustrated with the fact we didn't get a legit chance to repeat. Part of that is due to the lockout. Part of it is due to this team being gutted and bringing losers like Lamar Odom to this organization.

[xrobx]

the browns would love to make the playoffs 13 years in a row with 1 super bowl victory

[dude1394]

The fans that are bitching unless it's irrational "I hate this or that" are bitching because this was not an injury related drop off or a motivational drop off, this was a front office decision to make this team tremendously weaker. And the fans who have been waiting for a solid center next to dirk for over a dozen years seeing cubes give that up for a Dwight/deron pipe dream.

[xrobx]

If next season starts and Deron isn't here and the team is still in shambles, I'll gladly agree. until then, why not give our guys the benefit of the doubt

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by xrobx

If next season starts and Deron isn't here and the team is still in shambles, I'll gladly agree. until then, why not give our guys the benefit of the doubt

I don't quite understand the desire to shut off discussion. The unknown plan versus the known dealings would seem to be ripe topics for discussion, especially after this year whe the team was not very competitive. Certainly dlord for example would not have done the same move with chandler. Even steineymo seems to have the other opinion at the moment.

And the dirkster knows he needs a very athletic big next to him as he stated in his exit interview. Right now cubes let that big go for johnny capspace, in addition he wasted a year over the cap with odom.

This year the front office gets an D- at best.

I do understand not wanting to discuss it, but that is easily done by not joining in the discussion.

[MavsFTR]

To answer the title question, yes.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by MavsFTR

To answer the title question, yes.

Heh..

It took me awhile to remember what the thread was about.

[Dundalis]

Originally Posted by dude1394

I don't quite understand the desire to shut off discussion. The unknown plan versus the known dealings would seem to be ripe topics for discussion, especially after this year whe the team was not very competitive. Certainly dlord for example would not have done the same move with chandler. Even steineymo seems to have the other opinion at the moment.

And the dirkster knows he needs a very athletic big next to him as he stated in his exit interview. Right now cubes let that big go for johnny capspace, in addition he wasted a year over the cap with odom.

This year the front office gets an D- at best.

I do understand not wanting to discuss it, but that is easily done by not joining in the discussion.

Maybe because you're such a whiny little bitch. And you throw a tissy fit at anyone who disagrees with you. Seems good enough of a reason.

[Day1MavsFan]

"...within the collective bargaining agreement we did everything possible to put the best possible team on the court," he said. "Period. End of story. "

I love Mark, but this simply is not true. He could have signed Chandler to a long-term deal. It may have been risky for the health of the franchise, but he doesn't say that. He only refers to this year. I'm not even sure that it's really that risky long-term. Even that's a debate. Would signing Chandler have precluded the team from signing DWill? Well certainly they couldn't have gotten both DWill and Howard, if so. So, why not keep Chandler and try to make a three year run with Dirk/DWill/Tyson?
It was a risk either way, even if that wasn't possible because we don't know how long Dirk will be Dirk. It may be that the team's only legit shot at another title for many years was this year if he'd brought back one or more of last year's free agents. So he's taking the risk that he can reload with a contending team for the remainder of Dirk's career, as opposed to just this year and next, I suppose. But nobody knows if that will happen, including him. It may be the smartest move, i.e. lowest risk, but that doesn't change the fact that he could've put a better team out there this year within the terms of the CBA. So, he either mispoke or he is selling his decision.
As to whom he's referring, it is definitely the media.

[dude1394]

He's pointing at the media but talking to anyone who disagrees with him. That is why it's public.

[OneLove22]

I would love to have season tickets, even this year.

[nowhereman]

Originally Posted by OneLove22

I would love to have season tickets, even this year.

Having them and paying for them are two different things.

[rmacomic]

My thoughts on the whole "dismantling of the team."

1. We don't know what was said between Cuban and Dirk two summers ago.

2. Dirk took a discount.

3. Dirk stated that he and Cuban talked about him resigning to give it one more try for a championship.

4. Dirk mentioned, post-championship, about being surprised it came in the first year of his new contract. While he never directly said, "We met the goal." He implied it more than once. How many times did he say something like, "I've been to the Olympics and now won a title, all my dreams have come to fruition etc..?"

5. What if, and I know it is speculation, but it is founded on some reality, What if Dirk and Cuban agreed that Cuban would keep spending until they won a Championship or Dirk's four year deal ran out? Cuban has kept this ship afloat for MANY MANY MANY years past the point when others would have "blown it up."

6. Maybe Dirk and Cuban had an agreement that Mark would spend until a title, and then they would begin the rebuilding process.

7. If point 6 is the case, then NO ONE should bitch that it happened in the first year.

8. How many of you expected, that after Lebron went to Miami, we would hoist a trophy before Dirk retired? Be honest with yourselves on this one. If you can't answer, "Without a doubt.," then SHUT THE F*@K UP.

9. Many of you were screaming that Mark should let Dirk go ring chasing, after The Decision. How do you think that would have turned out for Dirk, this franchise?

10. Losing sucks, losing without ever winning a title sucks worse.

[OneLove22]

Originally Posted by nowhereman

Having them and paying for them are two different things.

I would pay for them if I could. Soon I will.

[mav4ever]

This year the front office gets an D- at best.

F

[rmacomic]

Originally Posted by rmacomic

My thoughts on the whole "dismantling of the team."

1. We don't know what was said between Cuban and Dirk two summers ago.

2. Dirk took a discount.

3. Dirk stated that he and Cuban talked about him resigning to give it one more try for a championship.

4. Dirk mentioned, post-championship, about being surprised it came in the first year of his new contract. While he never directly said, "We met the goal." He implied it more than once. How many times did he say something like, "I've been to the Olympics and now won a title, all my dreams have come to fruition etc..?"

5. What if, and I know it is speculation, but it is founded on some reality, What if Dirk and Cuban agreed that Cuban would keep spending until they won a Championship or Dirk's four year deal ran out? Cuban has kept this ship afloat for MANY MANY MANY years past the point when others would have "blown it up."

6. Maybe Dirk and Cuban had an agreement that Mark would spend until a title, and then they would begin the rebuilding process.

7. If point 6 is the case, then NO ONE should bitch that it happened in the first year.

8. How many of you expected, that after Lebron went to Miami, we would hoist a trophy before Dirk retired? Be honest with yourselves on this one. If you can't answer, "Without a doubt.," then SHUT THE F*@K UP.

9. Many of you were screaming that Mark should let Dirk go ring chasing, after The Decision. How do you think that would have turned out for Dirk, this franchise?

10. Losing sucks, losing without ever winning a title sucks worse.

You know what, I have never bumped my own post, but these are my thoughts/feelings about this season, and they have been buried on a dying thread. Just wanted one more chance to get my POV across.






Now back to lurking obscurity. See you next May.

[mavs777]

The mavs got a 6 seed in the west in a rebuilding year, they kept cap space open for the future, and they didn't overpay a stupid amount for caron and jjb, while i don't necessarily now agree with the Tyson thing I completley understand why they did it, Id give them a B/B-.

[nowhereman]

Originally Posted by mavs777

The mavs got a 6 seed in the west

Not quite, but I get what you mean

[aexchange]

Originally Posted by dude1394

I don't quite understand the desire to shut off discussion. The unknown plan versus the known dealings would seem to be ripe topics for discussion, especially after this year whe the team was not very competitive. Certainly dlord for example would not have done the same move with chandler. Even steineymo seems to have the other opinion at the moment.

And the dirkster knows he needs a very athletic big next to him as he stated in his exit interview. Right now cubes let that big go for johnny capspace, in addition he wasted a year over the cap with odom.

This year the front office gets an D- at best.

I do understand not wanting to discuss it, but that is easily done by not joining in the discussion.

For the record, Stein's personal position is actually quite the opposite of what you've laid out. He's been pretty clear on Galloway about giving Cuban and the Mavs the benefit of the doubt on this one. More specifically, he felt like not resigning Ty was the right decision when trying to prepare the Mavs for life after Dirk.

You've taken a piece of his narrative and tried to manipulate it to fit your position. Not sure if that was intentional on your part, but either way, thought I would set the record straight.

[LonghornDub]

This "johnny capspace" argument is pretty weak, for the record. It's a gross oversimplification of a very complex decision with a lot of moving parts.

[Erod]

Someone tell me who the great signing or draft pick was of Mark Cuban's during his tenure as owner.

Dirk was already here.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Erod

Someone tell me who the great signing or draft pick was of Mark Cuban's during his tenure as owner.

Dirk was already here.

What point are you attempting to make here?

[nowhereman]

Originally Posted by Erod

Someone tell me who the great signing or draft pick was of Mark Cuban's during his tenure as owner.

Dirk was already here.

You don't count twice extending and rebuilding around Nowitzki? Weird, but fine, here's others:

How about Jason Terry for Antoine Walker? How about getting an all-star in J-Ho with one of the last picks in the first round? How about Devin Harris and Jerry Stackhouse for Antawn Jamison? How about swinging for Van Exel? How about trading basically nothing for Shawn Marion? How about getting three critical rotation players for a permanently injured Josh Howard? How about getting Tyson Chandler for a vanishing contract? How about the reigning sixth man of the year for nothing? How about signing a guy who is now one of only three active coaches with an NBA title? How about unloading Diop for Carroll and then getting rid of Carroll? How about doing all this while putting us in the playoffs for 12 straight seasons+?

Hard to draft well when you're always drafting at the bottom. Hard to sign big name free agents when you're constantly capped out from paying your existing, awesome core.

[Murphy3]

So Howard is on your good move in drafting but also on your good move in getting rid of..

I see what you did..

[fluid.forty.one]

Originally Posted by nowhereman

You don't count twice extending and rebuilding around Nowitzki? Weird, but fine, here's others:

How about Jason Terry for Antoine Walker? How about getting an all-star in J-Ho with one of the last picks in the first round? How about Devin Harris and Jerry Stackhouse for Antawn Jamison? How about swinging for Van Exel? How about trading basically nothing for Shawn Marion? How about getting three critical rotation players for a permanently injured Josh Howard? How about getting Tyson Chandler for a vanishing contract? How about the reigning sixth man of the year for nothing? How about signing a guy who is now one of only three active coaches with an NBA title? How about unloading Diop for Carroll and then getting rid of Carroll? How about doing all this while putting us in the playoffs for 12 straight seasons+?

Hard to draft well when you're always drafting at the bottom. Hard to sign big name free agents when you're constantly capped out from paying your existing, awesome core.

Throw it down, big man!