Guess next year's roster game

[Murphy3]

I do like guards that don't really shoot all that well, don't rebound, don't rack up good assist numbers, don't get to the line exceptionally well..

Let's bring him in.

[Scott McGuire]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

I do like guards that don't really shoot all that well, don't rebound, don't rack up good assist numbers, don't get to the line exceptionally well..

Let's bring him in.

Couldn't agree more with your sarcasm.

I just went through a few Jazz forums really quick. The consensus is that him getting injured at the end of season actually helped them MAKE the playoffs. I love his Hollinger profile from before this season. And remember he actually regressed this season.

+ Smooth, long, left-handed wing who can score from outside or attack basket.

+ Decent athlete but an inconsistent defender. Needs to improve effort, foul less.

+ Takes too many long 2s off dribble. Shot selection, court vision need work.

YUK!

[Murphy3]

Honestly, I wouldn't be opposed to giving the young kid a shot to come in and perhaps develop a bit here in Dallas. Playing alongside Dirk and hopefully Deron again should help in that area.

But signing him really wouldn't get me all that excited as a Mavs fan.

[Scott McGuire]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Honestly, I wouldn't be opposed to giving the young kid a shot to come in and perhaps develop a bit here in Dallas. Playing alongside Dirk and hopefully Deron again should help in that area.

But signing him really wouldn't get me all that excited as a Mavs fan.

I know people can sour on their team's players they thought would become great (Roddy!), but I think CJ should be offered no more than 2 mill/year. His advanced stats are embarrassing. 4.1 rebounds per 40…. as a 6'6"/6"8 SF!

SEASON FG% FT% P/40 R/40 A/40 TS% AST TO USG REB PER
'05-'06 .368 .750 15.6 7.5 3.2 45.6 14.3 8.1 20.3 11.2 13.70
'06-'07 .345 .609 10.8 3.8 2.7 40.0 14.0 15.6 17.3 5.7 2.75
'07-'08 .479 .788 17.2 4.5 3.1 57.4 15.6 8.0 17.5 6.9 14.23
'08-'09 .459 .876 16.2 4.1 2.6 54.6 13.9 8.3 17.0 6.1 11.83
'09-'10 .429 .695 16.6 4.5 2.8 51.5 13.3 10.3 19.0 6.6 10.84
'10-'11 .407 .811 20.3 5.2 2.7 50.7 11.1 7.7 23.0 7.8 14.44
'11-'12 .381 .794 17.7 4.1 2.4 48.4 10.7 8.2 21.0 5.8 12.46

[grndmstr_c]

CJ's name is interesting because Dallas will likely have a hole to fill at SG, because he's unlikely to get a large contract offer from anyone (for good reason), and because Dallas might have a little bit of a built in advantage with him even before you get to the allure of an opportunity to build up your value through a couple yours of playing next to Dirk and Deron (should the Mavs secure a commitment from the latter).

Nothing to get excited about if that's the direction the team goes, but perfectly fine as a finishing touch on the roster if the Mavs have the kind of success they'll be looking for elsewhere in free agency.

[Scott McGuire]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

CJ's name is interesting because Dallas will likely have a hole to fill at SG, because he's unlikely to get a large contract offer from anyone (for good reason), and because Dallas might have a little bit of a built in advantage with him even before you get to the allure of an opportunity to build up your value through a couple yours of playing next to Dirk and Deron (should the Mavs secure a commitment from the latter).

Nothing to get excited about if that's the direction the team goes, but perfectly fine as a finishing touch on the roster if the Mavs have the kind of success they'll be looking for elsewhere in free agency.

How can we reconcile the way Jazz fans universally loathe him with any kind of optimism for his future. He apparently takes a ton of long 2s while shooting 38% overall. He just completed his 7th season so it's not like he hasn't had time.

The only thing I like about him is that maybe Deron wants him on whichever team he signs with.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Scott McGuire

How can we reconcile the way Jazz fans universally loathe him with any kind of optimism for his future. He apparently takes a ton of long 2s while shooting 38% overall. He just completed his 7th season so it's not like he hasn't had time.

The only thing I like about him is that maybe Deron wants him on whichever team he signs with.

My counterpoints would be:

1. Fans often have irrational loathing for useful players when they don't live up to their expectations.

2. He's 25.

3. He's only played in one system. Some guys just need a different kind of system to take a step forward.

I completely agree with _c's assessment; he wouldn't be anything to get too excited about, but if his interested in Dallas and the Mavs gets him here on a low end contract, I'd be pretty happy to have him.

[nowhereman]

Edit: Nevermind! Totally missed aexchange's post earlier re: Oden.

[clutch#41]

honestly im just expecting the unexpected with the front office. it seems like the players we want, dont always end up the players that we get. recently we signed west, carter, brandon wright, Yi and even Azu. players that were low risk and kinda came out of nowhere. so i dont know what to expect with what cuban does. i trust that he and donnie though will make this offseason right MFFL

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by clutch#41

honestly im just expecting the unexpected with the front office. it seems like the players we want, dont always end up the players that we get. recently we signed west, carter, brandon wright, Yi and even Azu. players that were low risk and kinda came out of nowhere. so i dont know what to expect with what cuban does. i trust that he and donnie though will make this offseason right MFFL

Doesn't that make it more fun in a way?

[LonghornDub]

CJ Miles at a low price would be a good get. I don't give a damn what Jazz fans say.

[Male30Dan]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

CJ Miles at a low price would be a good get. I don't give a damn what Jazz fans say.

I like the idea of having his size and speed on the team but he leaves that "subtraction by addition" taste in your mouth after looking at his numbers... Pass from me.

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

CJ Miles at a low price would be a good get. I don't give a damn what Jazz fans say.

Just look at that crap. Add to this that he's a terrible rebounder, bad passer, and a well known average to bad defender, with a terrible overall basketball IQ, and i'm honestly buffled why would anyone think this is a good idea. Roddy is better at literally everything at this point, even his questionable b-ball IQ is higher, and we have him on the cheap already. Azubuike is better when healthy. West is certainly better. So really, why would you sign this guy? Becuse he played with Williams? Or because he's 6'6? What does it matter if he's 6'6, when Roddy and West both plays taller than him?

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

Just look at that crap. Add to this that he's a terrible rebounder, bad passer, and a well known average to bad defender, with a terrible overall basketball IQ, and i'm honestly buffled why would anyone think this is a good idea. Roddy is better at literally everything at this point, even his questionable b-ball IQ is higher, and we have him on the cheap already. Azubuike is better when healthy. West is certainly better. So really, why would you sign this guy? Becuse he played with Williams? Or because he's 6'6? What does it matter if he's 6'6, when Roddy and West both plays taller than him?

If the Mavs sign him they'll clearly be banking on him being more productive in a different system with better coaching.

[Murphy3]

Honestly, I'm expecting a colossal failure from the front office this off season. Such expectations gives me plenty of room to be pleasantly surprised.

[aexchange]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Honestly, I'm expecting a colossal failure from the front office this off season. Such expectations gives me plenty of room to be pleasantly surprised.

Ditto. My only wish is that if the Mavs strike out on Deron, that they don't go use up their cap space like the Pistons did a few seasons ago.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by aexchange

Ditto. My only wish is that if the Mavs strike out on Deron, that they don't go use up their cap space like the Pistons did a few seasons ago.

So you'd prefer one year rentals again? That will be a tough pill to swallow.

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by aexchange

Ditto. My only wish is that if the Mavs strike out on Deron, that they don't go use up their cap space like the Pistons did a few seasons ago.

Haha, yea, villanueva, Ben Gordon amongst the luminaries. You don't want to kill your flexibility with marginal players being over paid when you hit Cuban's market correction timeline of 2013.

[Scott McGuire]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Honestly, I'm expecting a colossal failure from the front office this off season. Such expectations gives me plenty of room to be pleasantly surprised.

This is my attitude towards some movies I see with my wife. It's a good strategy when you have very little hope for a good movie/offseason.

On the other hand I like to think optimistically that the Mavs will get good players and possible Deron because that is a much more pleasant thought process to keep for the next 6 weeks.

[PerryGreen17]

PG - Travis Best/Dan Dickau
SG - Kevin Ollie/Doug Christie
SF - Trenton Hassell/Walt Williams
PF - Alan Henderson/Donnell Harvey
C - Sean Rooks/Evan Eschmeyer

[nowhereman]

The 2012-13 Dallas Jazzericks

PG - Deron Williams
SG - CJ Miles / Raja Bell
SF - Andrei Kirilenko
PF - Carlos Boozer
C - Mehmet Okur / Greg Ostertag

+ Dirk, THIS COULD ACTUALLY HAPPEN

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by nowhereman

The 2012-13 Dallas Jazzericks

PG - Deron Williams
SG - CJ Miles / Raja Bell
SF - Andrei Kirilenko
PF - Carlos Boozer
C - Mehmet Okur / Greg Ostertag

+ Dirk, THIS COULD ACTUALLY HAPPEN

Lol... Greg Ostertag

[oilfieldtrash]

Originally Posted by aexchange

Ditto. My only wish is that if the Mavs strike out on Deron, that they don't go use up their cap space like the Pistons did a few seasons ago.

Even with no Deron I'd be okay with using some of that cap space on Goran Dragic. He's young and can play. After him Marco Belineli is maybe another guy depending on the price.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Honestly, I'm expecting a colossal failure from the front office this off season. Such expectations gives me plenty of room to be pleasantly surprised.

Well..we've allready had a colossal failure this season. Hopefully it can only go up...but better tighten up your stops.

[Dirkadirkastan]

When I opened this thread, I expected to see Johnny Capspace in dude's starting five.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

When I opened this thread, I expected to see Johnny Capspace in dude's starting five.

Lol...

PG - Johnny Capspace
SG - Johnny Capspace
SF - Shawn Marion
PF. - Dirkster
C - Johnny Capspace.


Now that you mention, it sounds about right.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

Just look at that crap. Add to this that he's a terrible rebounder, bad passer, and a well known average to bad defender, with a terrible overall basketball IQ, and i'm honestly buffled why would anyone think this is a good idea. Roddy is better at literally everything at this point, even his questionable b-ball IQ is higher, and we have him on the cheap already. Azubuike is better when healthy. West is certainly better. So really, why would you sign this guy? Becuse he played with Williams? Or because he's 6'6? What does it matter if he's 6'6, when Roddy and West both plays taller than him?

He shot 48% and and 46% his first two years, which were probably the Jazz's best two years of the past 10+. All you're really doing is proving my point. He'd be a good get at a low price because he has upside and the potential to play better than he has recently if he's on a better team.

Originally Posted by Male30Dan

I like the idea of having his size and speed on the team but he leaves that "subtraction by addition" taste in your mouth after looking at his numbers... Pass from me.

See above.

[adonis]

Nash/Allen/Marion/Nowitzki/Garnett
Kidd/Carter/Stackhouse/Juwan Howard/ Diop

[nowhereman]

I just saw Diop play live against the Wizards a few weeks ago. It was really sad.

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

He shot 48% and and 46% his first two years, which were probably the Jazz's best two years of the past 10+. All you're really doing is proving my point. He'd be a good get at a low price because he has upside and the potential to play better than he has recently if he's on a better team.

It's pretty clear you didn't watch him much, or at all, if you think he has any upside. The first of those 2 magical seasons, he played 11 minutes per game. 22 the next, that was a borderline decent season, and was consistently terrible in the last 4 years. Even in that one good shooting season though, he rebounded the ball terrible, passed the ball terrible, and was an average to bad defender accoring to most. Why do you sign him before Roddy, when he's a better rebounder, defender, and shooter? Why do you sign him before West? Or even Azubuike? All of those guys had better season, or seasons than Miles' best season.

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by oilfieldtrash

Even with no Deron I'd be okay with using some of that cap space on Goran Dragic. He's young and can play. After him Marco Belineli is maybe another guy depending on the price.

Marco has all the talent in the world, and a piss poor work ethic and mentality to go with it. Constantly overweight, and doesn't have the fire, the desire to be better. He was a borderline all-star talent, too bad he's a lazy bum.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

It's pretty clear you didn't watch him much, or at all, if you think he has any upside. The first of those 2 magical seasons, he played 11 minutes per game. 22 the next, that was a borderline decent season, and was consistently terrible in the last 4 years. Even in that one good shooting season though, he rebounded the ball terrible, passed the ball terrible, and was an average to bad defender accoring to most. Why do you sign him before Roddy, when he's a better rebounder, defender, and shooter? Why do you sign him before West? Or even Azubuike? All of those guys had better season, or seasons than Miles' best season.

I watch him plenty. I closely followed his first few years in particular because he committed to play at my school but then spurned us and chose to to enter the draft instead.

He has upside. For a low price, I wouldn't mind seeing how he fits with some quality, veteran players. Now, it seems to really bother you that I disagree with you, but going to "you must not watch him"? Oh, I'm sorry, it was actually "pretty clear" that I don't watch him.

Can't help but chuckle.

[Budapest Maverick]

No, it does not bother me, what does bother me, is that you still didn't write one logical argument, as to why you think he has upside, and also didn't respond to what i wrote about Roddy, West, and Azubuike. I said all of those 3 players had better season, or seasons, than Miles' best, which is a fact. Also, they are all better rebounders, better defenders, and probably all 3 of them are better shooters as well, West and Azubike are certainly better 3 point shooters. Seriously, where do you think he would help us? What do you think he does better than those players?

[grndmstr_c]

In 2009 Miles played 22 mpg in 72 games and scored at a rate of just under 15 pp36 on 54.6% true shooting. And he's going to be 25 next year. If you define upside as the capacity for improvement relative to his most recent (inarguably poor) performance levels and the standards implied by a near-minimum contract, those constitute two perfectly obvious reasons for thinking that Miles might have some upside.

As for Booby, West and Azu, Booby could get traded, and if he doesn't will probably be looking at further point guard development, West is a free agent who may get an offer that doesn't fit into the salary structure that Dallas has mapped out, and Azu is already signed (on account of his upside, btw), so it's pretty much impossible for Dallas to sign Miles before him.

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

In 2009 Miles played 22 mpg in 72 games and scored at a rate of just under 15 pp36 on 54.6% true shooting. And he's going to be 25 next year. If you define upside as the capacity for improvement relative to his most recent (inarguably poor) performance levels and the standards implied by a near-minimum contract, those constitute two perfectly obvious reasons for thinking that Miles might have some upside.

As for Booby, West and Azu, Booby could get traded, and if he doesn't will probably be looking at further point guard development, West is a free agent who may get an offer that doesn't fit into the salary structure that Dallas has mapped out, and Azu is already signed (on account of his upside, btw), so it's pretty much impossible for Dallas to sign Miles before him.

By most recent, you mean 4 seasons straight, with a degrading level of play in each of those seasons? I don't understand that "it's pretty much impossible for Dallas to sign Miles before him" sentence, i asked why would you wanna sign Miles, when you have players at the position that are better than him? 15PPG per 36 on 54%TS in his best year? Ok. Roddy's rookie season was 20,4 PP36 on 61%TS.

Azubuike? 19 PP36 on 64%TS (he also had 3 other season what was better than Miles' best, that would make... all of his 4 seasons). West? 3 better seasons overall from a scoring efficiency standpoint. No need to compare their defense. What else do i miss? Maybe some intrigued about his prototypical SG size? Surely this cannot be, as he's a terrible rebounder, and a bad defender. There is no logical argument for him.

[LonghornDub]

I think GMC actually summed it up pretty well. I'll add that I'm not even sure why you keep wanting to directly compare him to the three guys you listed. Nobody said, "Take CJ Miles over those three guys." West may not be here next year. There is a serious possibility Azu will never be the same player he was pre-injury. As for Roddy, he probably has even more upside than Miles, but he's a tweener and his future almost certainly has to be at PG, if he has a future.

So, again, I absolutely take Miles for a low number if the opportunity is there. Do I take him over West at the same number? No.

[grndmstr_c]

I don't understand that "it's pretty much impossible for Dallas to sign Miles before him" sentence, i asked why would you wanna sign Miles, when you have players at the position that are better than him?

Really?

Why do you sign him before West? Or even Azubuike?

In looking back I see you used the same phrase about Booby, who I suppose you knew was already under contract, so perhaps you didn't mean it the way it sounded, but I used the exact same words you did. How can you not understand that?

As to the rest of it, LD's comments on the value of Booby, Azu and West as compared to Miles in his most recent post are spot on.

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Really?How can you not understand that?

You already figured it out, i used the wrong word, not a native speaker, sorry.

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

As to the rest of it, LD's comments on the value of Booby, Azu and West as compared to Miles in his most recent post are spot on.

Yeah, i guess we're gonna agree to disagree. I don't see any scenario where Miles can help this team, and i'm pretty sure we can get a better SG with a 17th (?) pick, if we don't draft a big. I think we should draft either a center, or a shooting guard.

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

I think GMC actually summed it up pretty well. I'll add that I'm not even sure why you keep wanting to directly compare him to the three guys you listed. Nobody said, "Take CJ Miles over those three guys." West may not be here next year. There is a serious possibility Azu will never be the same player he was pre-injury. As for Roddy, he probably has even more upside than Miles, but he's a tweener and his future almost certainly has to be at PG, if he has a future.

So, again, I absolutely take Miles for a low number if the opportunity is there. Do I take him over West at the same number? No.

Okay, i can respect that opinion, my only problem with it (other than the obvious disagreement about whether Miles could help this team or not) is that even though Roddy is a tweener, he actually plays taller than Miles. Better rebounder, and shot blocker. Still, i guess we're gonna have to agree to disagree. Next topic, who do you guys wanna draft? I'm really intrigued about Terrence Ross. Any of you guys saw him play? I did not, but we badly need a shooting guard, and nbadraft.net is pretty high on him. He does not sound like the next Mo Ager, more like a possible lottery talent in one of the most anticipated drafts of all-time.

http://nbadraft.net/players/terrence-ross

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

i used the wrong word, not a native speaker, sorry.

For the record, you could have fooled me (other than your username). Your English is excellent.