Summer 2012 Assets

[CaseyJones]

Originally Posted by purplefrog

Ben and Skin talked (today) about a trade where Lam-Lam + Matrix + #17 pick +Wright + Roddy go to the Hawks for Josh Smith and Zaza Pachulia. They thought that Smith would help lure DWill to Dallas. Might have to amnesty Haywood or trade Zaza in order to make the cap space work for DWill.

Sounds a bit excessive to me. I still think we should keep Wright and either the pick or Matrix. Trade Mahinmi instead of Wright and Trix (or the pick).
Then if you get Zaza I say trade him too. Zaza is obviously a huge step up from Haywood but I think we could still get better or at least a couple years younger.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by mavs777

none, he would kill spacing.

Why do so many folks think that players can play any position?

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

They're Atlanta. It doesn't matter if they get a loot in return or not, they'll still be underachievers.

This. Atlanta losing in the first 2 rounds of the playoffs (usually the first) is the surest thing in the NBA.

[sefant77]

And Josh Smith isnt really a SF. But since Dirk has the range it could work

[bobatundi]

Originally Posted by aexchange

I love Chandler, but you do realize his past 2 years in the league have been complete outliers over his historical durability. Having 3 years and $42M left on a deal is not something to look forward to when you have the potential FA class that is shaping up for 2013.

Actually, in 8 of his 11 years in the league, he's played in 87% or more of his team's games, with a median of 90%. The past two seasons (90%, 94%) are not outliers. The prior two (55%, 62%) are the outliers.

[bobatundi]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

What kind of voodoo math are using to get there? Dirk/chandler/Marion puts you significantly closer to the cap than 15 mil under and that doesn't include cap holds for the other positions

The branch of voodoo math known as "addition and subtraction"

Dirk $20,907,128
Marion $ 8,646,364
Chandler $13,604,188
total: $43,157,680
Rumored cap: $61,000,000
cap holds: $ 3,788,832 (8 rookie minimum salaries of $473,604)
Cap room: $14,053,488

Assume Tyson did give a "hometown discount" vs. what he signed for in New York, say a million bucks a year (about the difference in tax burden anyway), and you're at $15 million in cap space. So yes, this assumes the cap goes up, and that the Mavs could unload all their other contracts...but the numbers do add up, without the use of any sort of voodoo.

[jthig32]

I don't know that a 61Mil cap has been rumored. DLord stated once that there seems to be language in the CBA agreement that anticipates that, but he's been very quick to point out that no one really knows what it's going to be. You're assuming a significant uptick in cap room in your scenario, AND you're being incredibly optimistic (imo) when you claim that 14Mil might be enough to bring Deron here.

[aexchange]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I don't know that a 61Mil cap has been rumored. DLord stated once that there seems to be language in the CBA agreement that anticipates that, but he's been very quick to point out that no one really knows what it's going to be. You're assuming a significant uptick in cap room in your scenario, AND you're being incredibly optimistic (imo) when you claim that 14Mil might be enough to bring Deron here.

There is no chance in hell that Deron gives the Mavs a hometown discount off of the max and then leaves an extra $20M+ on the table from the Nets. This is a guy who took the most money he could get over the summer from a Turkish team when the lockout took effect.

Even if you had Tyson this year AND he did give a hometown discount, there is no way we get out of the first round. Our issue this year wasn't our defense as much as it was a team with low BBall IQ and poor outside shooting. The strength of our team last year wasn't Tyson, it was the ability for the Mavs to space the floor on offense and the threat of outside shooting creating penetration lanes for the guards.

[aexchange]

Originally Posted by bobatundi

Actually, in 8 of his 11 years in the league, he's played in 87% or more of his team's games, with a median of 90%. The past two seasons (90%, 94%) are not outliers. The prior two (55%, 62%) are the outliers.

Nice try, but unfortunately, it neglects the fact that in the 10 seasons the Mavs had to look at prior to Chandler departing for the Knicks, he had 3 seasons where he missed significant portions of the season. You can't use a results oriented argument based on Chandler's results from this season and fault the Mavs for what they did this past off season.

He's a nice player, but you're committing a solid chunk of your cap space (>25%) to a player who hasn't demonstrated consistently that he can stay healthy.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by aexchange

There is no chance in hell that Deron gives the Mavs a hometown discount off of the max and then leaves an extra $20M+ on the table from the Nets. This is a guy who took the most money he could get over the summer from a Turkish team when the lockout took effect.

Even if you had Tyson this year AND he did give a hometown discount, there is no way we get out of the first round. Our issue this year wasn't our defense as much as it was a team with low BBall IQ and poor outside shooting. The strength of our team last year wasn't Tyson, it was the ability for the Mavs to space the floor on offense and the threat of outside shooting creating penetration lanes for the guards.

Smh... And the rim defender not completely ignoring our 5 man had nothing to do with driving lanes, spacing on the floor and dirk not having a 5 waiting for him after he drove around Perkins.

[bobatundi]

Originally Posted by aexchange

Nice try, but unfortunately, it neglects the fact that in the 10 seasons the Mavs had to look at prior to Chandler departing for the Knicks, he had 3 seasons where he missed significant portions of the season. You can't use a results oriented argument based on Chandler's results from this season and fault the Mavs for what they did this past off season.

He's a nice player, but you're committing a solid chunk of your cap space (>25%) to a player who hasn't demonstrated consistently that he can stay healthy.

It doesn't neglect it at all. Fine, ten seasons to look at prior to this one--and in seven of those, he played in most of his team's games. This past season is not an outlier.

[bobatundi]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I don't know that a 61Mil cap has been rumored. DLord stated once that there seems to be language in the CBA agreement that anticipates that, but he's been very quick to point out that no one really knows what it's going to be. You're assuming a significant uptick in cap room in your scenario, AND you're being incredibly optimistic (imo) when you claim that 14Mil might be enough to bring Deron here.

It has been rumored. There are dozens of articles online that refer to it. Not saying that makes it valid, just saying it's been out there, which is what makes it a rumor. A lot more folks than DLord have thrown this number around.

So yes--I am assuming an uptick in cap room (which has been rumored, and which I have already clearly stated as a key assumption); and I'm assuming $15 million may be enough to convince Deron to come to Dallas, or as I already stated, at least give enough leverage to push the Nets into a S&T. We couldn't offer him much more than $17 million anyway, even if we had infinite cap room, due to the CBA rules on max salaries. $15MM in Dallas will go twice as far as $17MM in NYC. I've lived in both places. Sure, if he's only about the benjamins, he'll stay in Brooklyn--but if that were already a foregone conclusion, nobody would even be talking about him coming to Dallas (or anywhere else) anyway.

Did I say any of this is likely? In fact, it can't happen, because Tyson DID NOT re-sign with the Mavs. But it's a more feasible hypothetical than a lot of the ridiculous speculation that gets bandied about on this board.

[mavs777]

Originally Posted by bobatundi

It doesn't neglect it at all. Fine, ten seasons to look at prior to this one--and in seven of those, he played in most of his team's games. This past season is not an outlier.

If I'm signing a player to 12+ mill per season, I'm expecting him to play in more than 90% of his games.

[CaseyJones]

Someone make me feel better about this.
Dirk is talking about how he might leave if the Mavs decide to rebuild. Granted Cuban, we know, would want to keep Dirk but still.

ESPN

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by CaseyJones

Someone make me feel better about this.
Dirk is talking about how he might leave if the Mavs decide to rebuild. Granted Cuban, we know, would want to keep Dirk but still.

ESPN

Here's something that will make you feel better - it's the last paragraph of the article:

"I don’t even want to think about it because I don’t think it’s going to happen," Nowitzki said. "I want to finish my career here and hopefully compete again in the playoffs and be a player late in June. We’ll see. Everything else is kind of all in the future. I can’t really see myself in another city or another uniform after 14 seasons I think it’s been now. Growing up here and basically I've matured so much over the years and met a lot of great people here, so I can’t even think about going somewhere else really."

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by CaseyJones

Someone make me feel better about this.
Dirk is talking about how he might leave if the Mavs decide to rebuild. Granted Cuban, we know, would want to keep Dirk but still.

ESPN

A lot of people have misconstrued Dirk's statements in that interview, in my opinion. Dirk is not saying "I can't go through a rebuild, I'll demand a trade". No, he's being classic, humble Dirk. He's saying "I'm too old, why would they want to keep me during a rebuild. So yeah, they might decide they want to trade me. But I'd like to stay here".

Go back and listen to it a few more times.

[markus1234]

Originally Posted by jthig32

A lot of people have misconstrued Dirk's statements in that interview, in my opinion.

Dirk is not saying "I can't go through a rebuild, I'll demand a trade".

A couple of months ago he said this:

"I'm too old to sacrifice a season," said Nowitzki

http://m.espn.go.com/wireless/story?...4&lang=ES&wjb=

And he is obviously too old to sacrifice the next season...or two.

Dirk's opinion is pretty clear to me. He wants a star NOW and he wants to play on a contender.

If Cuban does not land a star and we end up with an average team, Dirk will accept it, he will continue to play for the MAVS, but it will be pretty much an horror scenario for him. And in 2yrs he will retire with a bitter taste in his mouth.... (~10yrs without all star teammate and having been given no chance to repeat)

[mavs777]

josh howard and devin harris were legitimate all stars, and you could argue tyson should have got all star berth last year.

[saclare]

Originally Posted by CaseyJones

Someone make me feel better about this.
Dirk is talking about how he might leave if the Mavs decide to rebuild. Granted Cuban, we know, would want to keep Dirk but still.

ESPN

How does that, in any way, make you believe he wants to leave. No where in that does he say that...

Refer to Underdog's post above.

[tcat075]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Smh... And the rim defender not completely ignoring our 5 man had nothing to do with driving lanes, spacing on the floor and dirk not having a 5 waiting for him after he drove around Perkins.

There were a lot of problems with this year's squad. Not having a rim defender was a huge one, but so was the lack of outside shooting which could change and win games last year. Then there was the fact that Shawn Marion was the only perimeter defender able to guard anyone, so when a team like OKC came in, two of their three perimeter players were all but helped into the paint. Oh, and the Mavericks still don't have a player of their own whose able to break down a defense. Throw in the fact that the ball movement horrid this year compared to last year's squad. Oh, and don't forget fatigue grinding at this aging team. And I could go on if I really had too, because let's face it: this team had a hell of a lot of flaws.

That's the thing, though. Last year's squad had flaws, too. But they fixed enough of them that they won the NBA Championship. The Mavericks have to get better next year. If they don't get a shot blocking center who's capable offensively like everyone is demanding, there's no need to just give up right then and there. Improve in other areas, go get a backup SF who provides stout defense, make the team better. If center can't be fixed, make the other areas better and all of a sudden it becomes a lot easier to deal with.

[markus1234]

Originally Posted by tcat075

Not having a rim defender was a huge one,

but so was the lack of outside shooting

Then there was the fact that Shawn Marion was the only perimeter defender able to guard anyone,

Oh, and the Mavericks still don't have a player of their own whose able to break down a defense.

Great points.

But now tell me why we have Roddy, DoJo, Carter, Wright, Mihnimi, Wood, West, Cardinal, Yi on our team, lol ? wasn't it their job ? Something is wrong here. Ton of guys who couldn't deliver at least in one area on a high level. Pretty pathetic.

[oilfieldtrash]

Originally Posted by mavs777

josh howard and devin harris were legitimate all stars, and you could argue tyson should have got all star berth last year.

lol
Put all those guys on the same team and Dirk still doesn't have a supporting cast as good as OKC, LA, clippers, Heat, Indiana, Memphis, etc..

Bout time Cuban lands the big fish and get Dirk a proper supporting cast.

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by mavs777

josh howard and devin harris were legitimate all stars, and you could argue tyson should have got all star berth last year.

When was devin legit all star here?

[KillerLeft]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

When was devin legit all star here?

He wasn't.

Steve Nash
Michael Finley
Josh Howard
Jason Terry
Jason Kidd
Tyson Chandler

These are the best players with whom Dirk has played in Dallas.

[Underdog]

Interesting tidbit from David Lord on Odom's contract:

DONUT 2: Juggling Dollars...

With a 2011-12 salary of $8.9M (all of which has already been paid), Odom could be traded alone in June for a player whose salary is as large as $11.22M this season (already paid) and whose salary next season could therefore be up to $12.06M. The other team would only have to pay Odom $2.4M next season as a buyout. In the ideal scenario, that would shave almost $10M off their cap and payroll.

[spreedom]

IF we knew we had Deron locked in, would anybody be opposed to trading Odom's contract for Emeka Okafor? He's one of the best post defenders in the league and would help Dirk tremendously up front.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by spreedom

IF we knew we had Deron locked in, would anybody be opposed to trading Odom's contract for Emeka Okafor? He's one of the best post defenders in the league and would help Dirk tremendously up front.

Okafor makes $13.5M next season - too expensive to trade for Odom straight-up...

[Underdog]

Guys who fit the $10M-$12M range next season (in no particular order):

Rajon Rondo
Jose Calderon
Andrea Bargnani
Joakim Noah
David West
Monta Ellis
Al Horford
Corey Maggette
Hedo Turkoglu
Tony Parker
Stephen Jackson
Richard Jefferson
DeAndre Jordan

Or maybe we could trade Odom for someone a bit cheaper? That doesn't really make as much sense from the other team's perspective though.

Hedo caught my eye...

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

When was devin legit all star here?

I had that same thought. As for Tyson, it was nice of everybody on the Mavs to talk him up and all, but let's not confuse publicity for reality. The spot that Mark and Rick and the rest were touting Chandler for went to Kevin Love, and Randolph, Aldridge, Marc Gasol, Bynum, Jefferson and Nene were all spectators for that all-star game. I don't doubt there are a few people who'd put Tyson at the top of that list, but I suspect they're very much in the minority, and I don't count myself among them.

[b_o_r]

Originally Posted by KillerLeft

He wasn't.

Steve Nash
Michael Finley
Josh Howard
Jason Terry
Jason Kidd
Tyson Chandler

These are the best players with whom Dirk has played in Dallas.

Devin made the All-star the year after he was traded to New Jersey so technically speaking he is all-star level talent. Tyson has yet to make one but he defensive MVP goes along way.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by b_o_r

Devin made the All-star the year after he was traded to New Jersey so technically speaking he is all-star level talent. Tyson has yet to make one but he defensive MVP goes along way.

Eastern Conference and Western Conference hoops aren't created equally.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Guys who fit the $10M-$12M range next season (in no particular order):

Hedo caught my eye...

Horford caught mine.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Horford caught mine.

I don't see Atlanta trading Horford for cap relief...

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I don't see Atlanta trading Horford for cap relief...

I just see it as an underachieving team with a arguably poor front office. That's enough of a starting point for me.

[mavs777]

All reports are Horford are untouchable with all due respect Bryan I think you are taking the slander a bit too far.

[spreedom]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Okafor makes $13.5M next season - too expensive to trade for Odom straight-up...

If we trade before the draft, we factor in his 11/12 salary, correct?

If so, Odom and DoJo for Okafor works.

[mavs777]

Unless we plan to trade marion as well amnestying haywood we won't be able to trade lamar's contract for a 10 million year guy or so and offer deron max

[bobatundi]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Guys who fit the $10M-$12M range next season (in no particular order):

Rajon Rondo
Jose Calderon
Andrea Bargnani
Joakim Noah
David West
Monta Ellis
Al Horford
Corey Maggette
Hedo Turkoglu
Tony Parker
Stephen Jackson
Richard Jefferson
DeAndre Jordan

Or maybe we could trade Odom for someone a bit cheaper? That doesn't really make as much sense from the other team's perspective though.

Hedo caught my eye...

Hedo was an average player at his peak; he is well below average now and will be 33 next season. I'd rather let Odom walk for nothing than waste money that way.

[bobatundi]

Originally Posted by spreedom

IF we knew we had Deron locked in, would anybody be opposed to trading Odom's contract for Emeka Okafor? He's one of the best post defenders in the league and would help Dirk tremendously up front.

Not sure why we'd do that if we weren't willing to re-sign Chandler.

(and before anybody jumps on the "durability" bandwagon--Chandler has played in 82% of his team's games over his career; Okafor, 80%)

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by bobatundi

Not sure why we'd do that if we weren't willing to re-sign Chandler.

(and before anybody jumps on the "durability" bandwagon--Chandler has played in 82% of his team's games over his career; Okafor, 80%)

I doubt Okafor would be viewed as a desirable target, but his contract only goes for two more seasons, which is a huge distinction between him and Chandler's potential situation.