Maybe it's time to just blow it all up, now.

[Dtownsfinest]

I wouldn't be opposed to it. But it would have to be a deal that would involve draft picks for the upcoming draft. Any team with Dirk on it is a contender and if you trade him for future picks you are more than likely looking at late 1st round picks.

[Maringa]

As probably already discussed....I keep going back to San Antonio...Since their last championship...they have had periods where they looked old, and many of their fans suggested blowing team up...They have recovered nicely - they still have key veterans, but they have upgraded their complementary players with nice young players. It can be done with Dallas...I think the Mavs have one more year in the desert, but the 2013-2014 could be promising if Cuban/Donnie play it right...

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by Maringa

As probably already discussed....I keep going back to San Antonio...Since their last championship...they have had periods where they looked old, and many of their fans suggested blowing team up...They have recovered nicely - they still have key veterans, but they have upgraded their complementary players with nice young players. It can be done with Dallas...I think the Mavs have one more year in the desert, but the 2013-2014 could be promising if Cuban/Donnie play it right...

SA has a Big 3, Mavs don't. Makes Dirk's run through the playoffs much more impressive. One of their Big 3 goes down, another one leads the group through the rigors of the regular season, gets them a nice high seed. Dirk goes down, we're close to toast that night. Agree that we can stay viable with the addition of key pieces.

[Erod]

Worst case: New Jersey gets the first pick in the lottery, which they will trade to Orlando for Dwight Howard. Then, Deron is not going anywhere, and Dallas is left at the alter.

Then, blowing it up might actually be an option. Any hopes were lost when Cuban let Tyson and Barrea walk.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Erod

Worst case: New Jersey gets the first pick in the lottery, which they will trade to Orlando for Dwight Howard. Then, Deron is not going anywhere, and Dallas is left at the alter.

1) New Jersey doesn't have a team.

2) The Nets only get to keep their pick if it's top-3, otherwise they lose it to Portland.

3) The odds of the Nets getting a top-3 pick are 25%.

4) The Nets can't trade a top-3 pick for Dwight Howard because the salaries don't match.

5) The Nets won't have enough assets to match salary along with a top-3 pick until AFTER the draft, when Lopez becomes a free agent.

6) Since Lopez is a restricted free agent, he'd have to AGREE to be traded to Orlando - it's his choice, and I can't imagine why he'd want to play on a team that's going to trade away their franchise player.


So the odds of Dwight Howard getting traded to Brooklyn are slim-to-f*cking-none... Which is still much better odds than this board seeing a post from you that isn't the equivalent of a bloody fart...

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Erod

Then, blowing it up might actually be an option. Any hopes were lost when Cuban let Tyson and Barrea walk.

I thought Barrea really made some terrific plays during the 2019 NBL after-season.

[mcsluggo]

SHOULD the Mavs blow it up and reboot...?

Probably.

CAN the Mavs blow it up and roboot....?

not a chance in hell.


its the nature of sports loyalties that management cannot blow a championship team until some percentage of the fans are ready for it, and they are never ready for it until it is several years too late.

[purplefrog]

There are going to be some very good players available after the CBA kicks in and one should consider that it might not be that difficult to build an excellent team around Dirk in the very near future regardless of what happens to Dwight and DWill. For example:

The Bulls have committed about $55 mill to Boozer, Deng, Noah, and Rose. This leaves virtually nothing for RFAs Asik, and Brewer, and later Gibson, Koerver, and Rip. If the Bulls keep their "Big 4" then they will have to either build around it with vet minimums or go over the cap.

The Heat have committed around $52mill to LeChoke, Diva, and Bosh. This means that Mike Miller, Chalmers, Anthony, Haslem, and Battier are going to get pinched, amnestied (one of the above), waived, or traded.

The Grizzlies have committed around $54 million to ZBo, Rudy Gay, Gasol, and Conley. Tony Allen, OJ Mayo, Speights, and Darrell Arthur will likely be looking for another team.

The Lakers have committed $63 mill to Kobe, Pau, and Bynum.

The Knicks have committed $52 million to Melo, Amare, and Tyson.

The Mavs have committed $36 million to Dirk, Haywood, and Matrix.

Assuming the cap is put around $60 million, I guess, my point is that:

• The landscape has dramatically changed on how GMs and owners will be able to put competitive teams on the court.
• Very good players are going to become available in this offseason.
• Some of the top teams are going to struggle or pay a truckload of money in order to keep their multiple star teams.
• The Mavs have options, whereas many of the elite teams have committed the lions share of their cap space to two or three players. It could work out fine for these teams barring injury, and/or their ability to attract players for the minimum salary. But the liklihood that these high salaries will restrict the operations of their respective franchises is very high. Time will tell.
• Those darn Spurs have done a masterful job of controlling salaries, keeping their core, and putting together a great supporting cast. I tip my hat to a great organization.

I'm no expert on the new CBA (far from it), and in fact I don't believe that many really know what will happen in the next two or three years. That includes owners and GMs. My guess is that as the new landscape becomes apparent the Mavs and Spurs will be able to move with the new era of NBA salaries whereas most of the rest of the league will struggle for awhile. Also, consider that if you put some excellent young talent around Dirk (i.e. Asik, Dragic, or Tony Allen) with some seasoned vets (KG; Shane Battier; Steve Nash) you might just catch lightening in a bottle and make another deep playoff run. All is not lost. All does not depend on Dwight or DWill joining the Mavs.

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by purplefrog

There are going to be some very good players available after the CBA kicks in and one should consider that it might not be that difficult to build an excellent team around Dirk in the very near future regardless of what happens to Dwight and DWill. For example:

The Bulls have committed about $55 mill to Boozer, Deng, Noah, and Rose. This leaves virtually nothing for RFAs Asik, and Brewer, and later Gibson, Koerver, and Rip. If the Bulls keep their "Big 4" then they will have to either build around it with vet minimums or go over the cap.

The Heat have committed around $52mill to the LeChoke, Diva, and Bosh. This means that Mike Miller, Chalmers, Anthony, Haslem, and Battier are going to get pinched, amnestied (one of the above), waived, or traded.

The Grizzlies have committed around $54 million to ZBo, Rudy Gay, Gasol, and Conley. Tony Allen, OJ Mayo, Speights, and Darrell Arthur will likely be looking for another team.

The Lakers have committed $63 mill to Kobe, Pau, and Bynum.

The Knicks have committed $52 million to Melo, Amare, and Tyson.

The Mavs have committed $36 million to Dirk, Haywood, and Matrix.

Assuming the cap is put around $60 million, I guess, my point is that:

• The landscape has dramatically changed on how GMs and owners will be able to put competitive teams on the court.
• Very good players are going to become available in this offseason.
• Some of the top teams are going to struggle or pay a truckload of money in order to keep their multiple star teams.
• The Mavs have options, whereas many of the elite teams have committed the lions share of their cap space to two or three players. It could work out fine for these teams barring injury, and/or their ability to attract players for the minimum salary. But the liklihood that these high salaries will restrict the operations of their respective franchises is very high. Time will tell.
• Those darn Spurs have done a masterful job of controlling salaries, keeping their core, and putting together a great supporting cast. I tip my hat to a great organization.

I'm no expert on the new CBA (far from it), and in fact I don't believe that many really know what will happen in the next two or three years. That includes owners and GMs. My guess is that as the new landscape becomes apparent the Mavs and Spurs will be able to move with the new era of NBA salaries whereas most of the rest of the league will struggle for awhile. Also, consider that if you put some excellent young talent around Dirk (i.e. Asik, Dragic, or Tony Allen) with some seasoned vets (KG; Shane Battier; Steve Nash) you might just catch lightening in a bottle and make another deep playoff run. All is not lost. All does not depend on Dwight or DWill joining the Mavs.

Spurs resigning Duncan is a lock as long as Duncan wants to play. This year he made 21 million, Manu and Parker make 12 each. Stephen Jackson is in at about 9 million. That's about 33 million before Duncan, say he signs for 16, that's 49 million on the books. I think everyone has issues with the cap, it's not on the players as to how much they are willing to sacrifice, money or winning?

[|_Jeff_|]

Originally Posted by mac222b

Or maybe bring Jose-Juan Toulouse-Lautrec back to play point?

That went over my head until I googled his name.

[b_o_r]

Originally Posted by purplefrog

There are going to be some very good players available after the CBA kicks in and one should consider that it might not be that difficult to build an excellent team around Dirk in the very near future regardless of what happens to Dwight and DWill. For example:

The Bulls have committed about $55 mill to Boozer, Deng, Noah, and Rose. This leaves virtually nothing for RFAs Asik, and Brewer, and later Gibson, Koerver, and Rip. If the Bulls keep their "Big 4" then they will have to either build around it with vet minimums or go over the cap.

The Heat have committed around $52mill to LeChoke, Diva, and Bosh. This means that Mike Miller, Chalmers, Anthony, Haslem, and Battier are going to get pinched, amnestied (one of the above), waived, or traded.

The Grizzlies have committed around $54 million to ZBo, Rudy Gay, Gasol, and Conley. Tony Allen, OJ Mayo, Speights, and Darrell Arthur will likely be looking for another team.

The Lakers have committed $63 mill to Kobe, Pau, and Bynum.

The Knicks have committed $52 million to Melo, Amare, and Tyson.

The Mavs have committed $36 million to Dirk, Haywood, and Matrix.

Assuming the cap is put around $60 million, I guess, my point is that:

• The landscape has dramatically changed on how GMs and owners will be able to put competitive teams on the court.
• Very good players are going to become available in this offseason.
• Some of the top teams are going to struggle or pay a truckload of money in order to keep their multiple star teams.
• The Mavs have options, whereas many of the elite teams have committed the lions share of their cap space to two or three players. It could work out fine for these teams barring injury, and/or their ability to attract players for the minimum salary. But the liklihood that these high salaries will restrict the operations of their respective franchises is very high. Time will tell.
• Those darn Spurs have done a masterful job of controlling salaries, keeping their core, and putting together a great supporting cast. I tip my hat to a great organization.

I'm no expert on the new CBA (far from it), and in fact I don't believe that many really know what will happen in the next two or three years. That includes owners and GMs. My guess is that as the new landscape becomes apparent the Mavs and Spurs will be able to move with the new era of NBA salaries whereas most of the rest of the league will struggle for awhile. Also, consider that if you put some excellent young talent around Dirk (i.e. Asik, Dragic, or Tony Allen) with some seasoned vets (KG; Shane Battier; Steve Nash) you might just catch lightening in a bottle and make another deep playoff run. All is not lost. All does not depend on Dwight or DWill joining the Mavs.

That scenario is all good if the Mavs weren't looking to make Dirk the 2nd best player on the team. The Mavs have their sight set on a big fish.

[purplefrog]

Originally Posted by b_o_r

That scenario is all good if the Mavs weren't looking to make Dirk the 2nd best player on the team. The Mavs have their sight set on a big fish.

The priority should be to land an elite player. No doubt. But I don't think a "better than Dirk elite player" is a prerequisite to contend for a championship. I've watched Indiana and Denver stay with elite teams in this year's playoff. How many elite players do they have? I also expect at least some of the elite teams will lose supporting cast or trade all-stars due to "cap pressure". Maybe a team that includes three megastars and twelve minimum salary players will rise to the top some years, but perhaps a team with a couple of aging but still talented superstars can be combined with a group of very talented young guns and still make a deep run in the near future. A year ago I wouldn't consider this scenario, but I think the new CBA will change how competitive/championship teams are constructed. Before you discount this possibility imagine Miami with their three stooges and a group of minimum salary guys. Now imagine that DWade has a season ending injury. Who steps in to take his spot? This year you would have a very talented Mike Miller take over and probably still keep the Heat competitive. Miller currently makes around $5-6 Mill. How can the Heat fit that salary under the cap as long as they have their three mega stars? So, maybe they trade or waive Miller and now they are left with James Jones or rookie Terrell Harris to fill in. Your Heat starting lineup is now Jones, Bosh, James, and ??? Can Anthony's or Chalmers' salary fit under the cap? I don't think so. So, are you left with Eddie Curry and Norris Cole? What happens to Haslem and Battier (both making $3-4 Mill)? Do you keep one and trade, amnesty, or waive the other? I'm not sure this is how things will turn out, but it is intriguing when you consider that teams like Miami will either have to pay huge penalties for going over the cap or let go some of their mid range salary guys to fill out a roster.

Maybe, I am way off base here. But it sure seems to me that some of these elite teams are going to struggle and/or their owners will have to demonstrate even deeper pockets in the future. It will be interesting.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by purplefrog

There are going to be some very good players available after the CBA kicks in and one should consider that it might not be that difficult to build an excellent team around Dirk in the very near future regardless of what happens to Dwight and DWill. For example:

The Bulls have committed about $55 mill to Boozer, Deng, Noah, and Rose. This leaves virtually nothing for RFAs Asik, and Brewer, and later Gibson, Koerver, and Rip. If the Bulls keep their "Big 4" then they will have to either build around it with vet minimums or go over the cap.

The Heat have committed around $52mill to LeChoke, Diva, and Bosh. This means that Mike Miller, Chalmers, Anthony, Haslem, and Battier are going to get pinched, amnestied (one of the above), waived, or traded.

The Grizzlies have committed around $54 million to ZBo, Rudy Gay, Gasol, and Conley. Tony Allen, OJ Mayo, Speights, and Darrell Arthur will likely be looking for another team.

The Lakers have committed $63 mill to Kobe, Pau, and Bynum.

The Knicks have committed $52 million to Melo, Amare, and Tyson.

The Mavs have committed $36 million to Dirk, Haywood, and Matrix.

Assuming the cap is put around $60 million, I guess, my point is that:

• The landscape has dramatically changed on how GMs and owners will be able to put competitive teams on the court.
• Very good players are going to become available in this offseason.
• Some of the top teams are going to struggle or pay a truckload of money in order to keep their multiple star teams.
• The Mavs have options, whereas many of the elite teams have committed the lions share of their cap space to two or three players. It could work out fine for these teams barring injury, and/or their ability to attract players for the minimum salary. But the liklihood that these high salaries will restrict the operations of their respective franchises is very high. Time will tell.
• Those darn Spurs have done a masterful job of controlling salaries, keeping their core, and putting together a great supporting cast. I tip my hat to a great organization.

I'm no expert on the new CBA (far from it), and in fact I don't believe that many really know what will happen in the next two or three years. That includes owners and GMs. My guess is that as the new landscape becomes apparent the Mavs and Spurs will be able to move with the new era of NBA salaries whereas most of the rest of the league will struggle for awhile. Also, consider that if you put some excellent young talent around Dirk (i.e. Asik, Dragic, or Tony Allen) with some seasoned vets (KG; Shane Battier; Steve Nash) you might just catch lightening in a bottle and make another deep playoff run. All is not lost. All does not depend on Dwight or DWill joining the Mavs.

Nice post. I worry that we're going to get kicked in the "Gortats" again if we go after Asik. The similarites are simply too eerie...
Wouldnt Bulls just match anything around MLE and either deal him or find a way to cut salary elsewhere? By packaging a player with a 1st rd. pick even?

One scenario which could play itself out is say we miss out on Deron but a
an option 1a type/almost superstar gets amnestied, we have the cap room to offer a very competitive contract. Best case scenario is somebody like Joe Johnson who would fit great next to Dirk. Mavs could offer him slightly less than some of the less appealing teams under the cap but ALOT more than other capstrapped playoff contenders.

[wilmtalk]

The mavs will never be able to develop younger players, with the exclusion of any top pick superstars, with their present coach. Wait and see time will prove me right. It isn't just a co-incidence that they have as yet only chosen to re-tool with older veterans rather than youth. He just is not a very good developmental coach.

[aexchange]

Originally Posted by wilmtalk

The mavs will never be able to develop younger players, with the exclusion of any top pick superstars, with their present coach. Wait and see time will prove me right. It isn't just a co-incidence that they have as yet only chosen to re-tool with older veterans rather than youth. He just is not a very good developmental coach.

Not sure I agree with this. He took a fairly young Indiana team and by all accounts overachieved with them when suspensions and injuries decimated the team.

I think he's capable of coaching up young players, but I do think there is a concern about his loyalty to his vets at times. That said, the counter argument could be made that he's given significant time to youngsters when merited --- Wright, Mahimi.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by aexchange

Not sure I agree with this. He took a fairly young Indiana team and by all accounts overachieved with them when suspensions and injuries decimated the team.

I think he's capable of coaching up young players, but I do think there is a concern about his loyalty to his vets at times. That said, the counter argument could be made that he's given significant time to youngsters when merited --- Wright, Mahimi.

JJ Buhrerra

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by aexchange

Not sure I agree with this. He took a fairly young Indiana team and by all accounts overachieved with them when suspensions and injuries decimated the team.

I think he's capable of coaching up young players, but I do think there is a concern about his loyalty to his vets at times. That said, the counter argument could be made that he's given significant time to youngsters when merited --- Wright, Mahimi.

Carlisle is definitely capable of doing a great job with young guys but his track record is pretty bad here in Dallas. Who have we really had, though? I think Roddy has come along about as well as can be expected for a guy that raw and with that many injuries. Jones was just not made for the NBA.

If we had a first rounder with a lot of excitement, he'd probably have to develop them and I'd say he has a pretty good track record at that. I'd assume the 17th pick would be in that category if we ended up keeping it. I don't think he usually keeps young guys from playing on principle but I think he's a coach that really respects basketball IQ and feel for the game. Roddy is just way too inexperienced to have any good feel for the game. DoJo just always looked lost and wasn't the physical specimen we thought he could be. If we get a 3-4 year college kid with a good feel for the game (or a guy like Rivers who has an unnaturally mature feel for the game despite being a freshman), I could see them making an impact next year or at least seeing the floor as a second stringer.

[markus1234]

I think we should not overrate "developing" of young players. Either you have it or you do not. And Greg Popovich is simply genius at finding young talented(in at least one area) guys.

One should also not confuse "developement" with playing alongside Dirk, and padding stats. Esp. FG%.

[EricaLubarsky]

Spurs have had the same system for more than a decade and the continuity of coaching and stars to make it happen. When they look into the draft they don't look for most talented but the guy most likely to contribute in a set system and its truly amazing how well young players can come in and be effective for them.

Most teams, including this Mavs team don't even have a system until the coach can find a combination and a style that works. Dallas has only one starter guaranteed to come back and no PG like Parker or Rondo to anchor any system we may have. Carlisle will have to look at what the roster is and try to work a system around his talent and can't recruit talent around a system.

It'd be lovely to mastermind a system that works and then build to it, but without the core players to anchor the system, its almost impossible and we don't have the young core to make it work. We have the most versatile player in history and nothing else. There isnt even a hint of offensive system-- Dirk can just do anything and he may be best in the iso.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by wilmtalk

The mavs will never be able to develop younger players, with the exclusion of any top pick superstars, with their present coach. Wait and see time will prove me right. It isn't just a co-incidence that they have as yet only chosen to re-tool with older veterans rather than youth. He just is not a very good developmental coach.

Completely UN-substantiated. He's playing with who they have and their youngsters...pretty much suck. Roddy is a chicken-****, dojo isn't very good, Wright is a twig (and wet his pants in the playoffs). Who else are we talking about???

What exactly are the HOT YOUNG prospects that carlisle is coaching out there? the mavs are in win-now mode for the last ten years and have been throwing away draft picks like they were worthless, which cubes/donnie pretty much have said they were.

they've drafted like they were dirt as well.

[markus1234]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Spurs have had the same system for more than a decade and the continuity of coaching and stars to make it happen. When they look into the draft they don't look for most talented but the guy most likely to contribute in a set system and its truly amazing how well young players can come in and be effective for them.

MAVS probably care too much about the overall potential/talent instead of creating a system and finding specialists, who are great at "only" one thing. I think this Pop's philosophy...finding a shooter, rebounder, slasher and putting him in a position to succeed.

[dude1394]

Spurs have had a common big three who are playing as top 20 but getting paid like top 50 for almost a decade. The mavs top three are dirk, jet...who else? I mean the dollars are ridiculous..
Parker - 12.5 for the next 4 years with no increase
Ginobbli - 12.9
duncan - 20.

There has been little continuity in mavs land except for dirk. completely different philosophies between the two clubs..Obviously the spurs have a better one (or just smarter people running it).

But it is getting pretty obvious (with OKC) that if you draft someone they will be willing to give a hometown discount to stay once they have had success. That appears to be the model and the mavs need to get a lot better drafting.

[grndmstr_c]

Don't agree with the notion that Rick's track record in Dallas is bad when it comes to developing younger guys.

DoJo's been pretty much a complete bust so far, but he can't shoot at all, and I can't imagine how you could take issue with him being at the bottom of a crowded depth chart given the makeup of the backcourt the last couple years. On the other hand Ian and Wright both just came off the best seasons of their careers, Brewer, though he was only with the Mavs for a little bit, has played better during and since his time with Rick than he ever had before, and JJB undeniably made great strides in his game through with Carlisle as his head coach. The only real blip on Rick's young player development resume in Dallas is Booby, but Rick gets an incomplete there for the same reason that Booby does...the foot injury.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Don't agree with the notion that Rick's track record in Dallas is bad when it comes to developing younger guys.

DoJo's been pretty much a complete bust so far, but he can't shoot at all, and I can't imagine how you could take issue with him being at the bottom of a crowded depth chart given the makeup of the backcourt the last couple years. On the other hand Ian and Wright both just came off the best seasons of their careers, Brewer, though he was only with the Mavs for a little bit, has played better during and since his time with Rick than he ever had before, and JJB undeniably made great strides in his game through with Carlisle as his head coach. The only real blip on Rick's young player development resume in Dallas is Booby, but Rick gets an incomplete there for the same reason that Booby does...the foot injury.

Excellent post. Rick also says the right things in regards to Roddy. He has never said the guard "doesn't have it." Roddy simply can not get injured before the season starts. That will be all on him if so.