Plan C?

[Scott McGuire]

Reading Fish's donuts today (I don't always do this)

The idea is…. What if DWill won't come and you don't to do the 1 year deal thing and you also don't want to overpay Dragic or other non super stars?

Dirk, Nash and KG all had PER over 20. If this were possible I'd actually really like the idea if DWill won't come.

This is the Donut from Fish…
DONUT 7: How about Steve Nash and Kevin Garnett? ...

Now, don't get all excited. (Or all pissed, depending on your viewpoint.) But this organization loves both of those elder statesmen. Always has. Nash and Garnett, on expensive two-year deals designed to expire when Dirk's existing contract is up, would keep the Mavs competitive and interesting and ... in the Summer of 2014, the Mavs would start all over. Dip way under the taxpayer limit. Maybe be a lottery team.

[Murphy3]

Kevin Garnett's a sorry piece of sh!t.

[Scott McGuire]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Kevin Garnett's a sorry piece of sh!t.

Who can still play basketball and is great at defense. I hate Garnett's antics as much as the next guy, but I think he's a pretty good bet to be a very solid play for the next 2 years. KG can hit that elbow jumper and Nash could set him up all day. It would be nice to clear all the big contracts at once.

The 2000-2010 All Stars
Nash
Carter (I really wouldn't start Carter)
Marion
Dirk
KG

[clutch#41]

we need to get younger bottom line. getting KG and Nash and banking on that they will be healthy all year long, will only lead us to a 1st rd exit next year. this is plan Z!!

[Scott McGuire]

Originally Posted by clutch#41

we need to get younger bottom line. getting KG and Nash and banking on that they will be healthy all year long, will only lead us to a 1st rd exit next year. this is plan Z!!

I'm getting more pessimistic by the day that DWill will sign with us and I really don't want to Detroit our capspace on unproven people. This route isn't the first or second choice, but I'm starting to doubt that any Dragic/McGee type combo signing will lead us into solid championship contention.

If it's a choice between signing people on 1 year deals to wait for CP3/Howard/Harden(RFA) and signing Nash and KG to 2 year deals, I'll take the latter. At least They have a chance to win. I'd love to root for a hopeful Nash Championship in Dallas.

[Dirkadirkastan]

Originally Posted by clutch#41

we need to get younger bottom line. getting KG and Nash and banking on that they will be healthy all year long, will only lead us to a 1st rd exit next year. this is plan Z!!

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Scott McGuire

Nash
Carter
Marion
Dirk
KG

Combined, that squad would have 45 All-Star appearances, 4 MVP Awards, 3 Championships and all sorts of other individual accolades, from Rookie of the Year to Defensive Player of the Year to Finals MVP...

They'd be like The Expendables of the NBA.

[Scott McGuire]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Combined, that squad would have 45 All-Star appearances, 3 MVP Awards, 3 Championships and all sorts of other individual accolades, from Rookie of the Year to Defensive Player of the Year to Finals MVP...

They'd be like The Expendables of the NBA.

It would almost be wrong to not invite Kidd back.

[nowhereman]

I don't hate it. But who matches up with Bynum & Pau? And we'd need one of the best perimeter defenders in the league at the 2 to match up with OKC. Would be an entertaining second-round at best team.

[nowhereman]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Combined, that squad would have 45 All-Star appearances, 3 MVP Awards, 3 Championships and all sorts of other individual accolades, from Rookie of the Year to Defensive Player of the Year to Finals MVP...

They'd be like The Expendables of the NBA.

4 MVPs, but yeah

[Scott McGuire]

Originally Posted by nowhereman

I don't hate it. But who matches up with Bynum & Pau? And we'd need one of the best perimeter defenders in the league at the 2 to match up with OKC. Would be an entertaining second-round at best team.

How could Bynum and Pau guard Dirk and KG? We'd definitely need Roddy or another good defender to be with Nash at all times. OKC is almost impossible to match up against if Westbrook/Harden/Durant are all on the floor.

I agree we probably wouldn't win, but we wouldn't struggle to score like we did this year. I'll take a highly entertaining 2nd round team with a chance to catch lighting in a bottle again.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by nowhereman

4 MVPs, but yeah

Oh yeah, forgot about KG's - that was, like, 8 years ago now...

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by Scott McGuire

How could Bynum and Pau guard Dirk and KG? We'd definitely need Roddy or another good defender to be with Nash at all times. OKC is almost impossible to match up against if Westbrook/Harden/Durant are all on the floor.

I agree we probably wouldn't win, but we wouldn't struggle to score like we did this year. I'll take a highly entertaining 2nd round team with a chance to catch lighting in a bottle again.

Yep, just get close, you can always pick up a Camby type - Bell type once the trade deadline passes. It's not the best way to build a team, but given that MBT wants to start laying the foundation to the new generation Mavs (Post Dirk) they must maintain that flexibility. Who knows that 17th pick develops into something nice.

[Scott McGuire]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Oh yeah, forgot about KG's - that was, like, 8 years ago now...

KG 03-04
Nash 04-05
Nash 05-06
Dirk 06-07

[Murphy3]

Originally Posted by Scott McGuire

How could Bynum and Pau guard Dirk and KG? We'd definitely need Roddy or another good defender to be with Nash at all times. OKC is almost impossible to match up against if Westbrook/Harden/Durant are all on the floor.

I agree we probably wouldn't win, but we wouldn't struggle to score like we did this year. I'll take a highly entertaining 2nd round team with a chance to catch lighting in a bottle again.

I don't think you really have to worry about matching up with KG. He's never been the type of guy that would carry a team all that well offensively even in his prime. Yeah, he might give you 20-25 when he goes off at this point in his career.. not exactly a matchup nightmare.

[jthig32]

Just because someone can't carry a team offensively doesn't mean they don't have to be accounted for offensively. KG is way, way more skilled than the vast majority of centers out there, and it absolutely would be difficult for someone like Bynum to guard him effectively and still play help defense.

I think you can make a pretty strong case that KG and Nash (if they played like they did this season) might represent a better core next season than Deron and whatever else you can get. You take Deron if you can for the long term, but next year, a team of KG, Nash and Dirk would be very stout.

I think a lot of people around here might have slept on just how good KG was this season, because he was really, really good, especially defensively. I think he's one of the very few guys that could offset what Nash takes off the table defensively.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Just because someone can't carry a team offensively doesn't mean they don't have to be accounted for offensively. KG is way, way more skilled than the vast majority of centers out there, and it absolutely would be difficult for someone like Bynum to guard him effectively and still play help defense.

I think you can make a pretty strong case that KG and Nash (if they played like they did this season) might represent a better core next season than Deron and whatever else you can get. You take Deron if you can for the long term, but next year, a team of KG, Nash and Dirk would be very stout.

I think a lot of people around here might have slept on just how good KG was this season, because he was really, really good, especially defensively. I think he's one of the very few guys that could offset what Nash takes off the table defensively.

Funny how that'd play out where Dirk said Tyson had the KG impact and you could have KG actually make that impact. He looks very generic to me on offense. Granted, he's pretty good with what he can do, but I would still have questions about how it "works" here. I'm sure it could, but I'd have to do more analysis of his offensive game.

He's still sharp as a tack on the defensive end of the floor. The concern is the obvious one, durability. He's had to do so, so much over the years, not even taking this year into account. The wheels have to break down eventually. People were saying that the Mavs would need an agile and versatile big anchoring the block with an aging Kidd and Jet with his defensive limitations. Ultimately, people saw what they got with Chandler. KG could theoretically do that, but I feel you're having similar yet different concerns. It's not the worst idea in the world tho.

[tcat075]

I like the idea of Nash and Garnett if Deron Williams doesn't want to come here.

Just to be clear, the reason Deron + Garnett isn't being discussed is because the Mavericks don't have cap space to make a big signing (Garnett) after spending max money on Deron? Even after amnestying Haywood or Marion?

[adonis]

Originally Posted by tcat075

I like the idea of Nash and Garnett if Deron Williams doesn't want to come here.

Just to be clear, the reason Deron + Garnett isn't being discussed is because the Mavericks don't have cap space to make a big signing (Garnett) after spending max money on Deron? Even after amnestying Haywood or Marion?

We'd have 31 mil guaranteed if Haywood is amnestied. Garnett won't get a max deal at this stage of his career.

[Scott McGuire]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Just because someone can't carry a team offensively doesn't mean they don't have to be accounted for offensively. KG is way, way more skilled than the vast majority of centers out there, and it absolutely would be difficult for someone like Bynum to guard him effectively and still play help defense.

I think you can make a pretty strong case that KG and Nash (if they played like they did this season) might represent a better core next season than Deron and whatever else you can get. You take Deron if you can for the long term, but next year, a team of KG, Nash and Dirk would be very stout.

I think a lot of people around here might have slept on just how good KG was this season, because he was really, really good, especially defensively. I think he's one of the very few guys that could offset what Nash takes off the table defensively.

I agree. KG can hit the elbow and out jumper very consistently. He can also finish plays even if they were difficult feeds. I don't think we can stress how much Offense was our problem this year. We need people to be able to get points and KG>Haywood/Ian/Wright on offense. I was one of those people who didn't look to closely at KG until the last few month where Boston went on their run. AND wouldn't it be great to have your main "center" shoot 85% on Free throws!!

Since KG can hit the set shot Nash would be able to create lots of easy opportunities for him. And KG + Marion means we'd have 2 great defenders to cover for Nash and Dirk.

The "Expendables" team would be really interesting.

[Murphy3]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Just because someone can't carry a team offensively doesn't mean they don't have to be accounted for offensively. KG is way, way more skilled than the vast majority of centers out there, and it absolutely would be difficult for someone like Bynum to guard him effectively and still play help defense.

I think you can make a pretty strong case that KG and Nash (if they played like they did this season) might represent a better core next season than Deron and whatever else you can get. You take Deron if you can for the long term, but next year, a team of KG, Nash and Dirk would be very stout.

I think a lot of people around here might have slept on just how good KG was this season, because he was really, really good, especially defensively. I think he's one of the very few guys that could offset what Nash takes off the table defensively.

Obviously... I just don't think that many coaches would suffer sleepless nights worrying about how to guard KG. And obviously, my comment was about the offensive side of the ball. He's a very good player still.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

I don't know about KG. Remember the last 15 ppg, 8 rpg, 3 apg power forward we acquired? Didn't turn out so well....

No a Nash/KG combo would certainly be a decent plan C. Garnett is playing great at center in the this year's playoffs.

[KillerLeft]

In my opinion, the Mavs should make a big push for KG this summer, regardless of whether Deron wants to come here or not. He solves so many of their biggest problems.

At the 5, which has become his best position, KG has the quickness and agility to show HARD on those high pick-n-rolls but recover to help in the paint quickly, and he's definitely top 2-3 as far as help side rim protection is concerned. He's also great (again, as a 5) in transition defensively. Does any of this sound familiar? These are pretty much the attributes that made Chandler so effective here last season, imho.

Then, it gets better. KG is SUPERIOR to chandler in two key areas: 1 on 1 post defense, where Chandler was more than adequate but not ideal, and defensive rebounding, which was Chandler's one noticeable (slight) weakness, imo. Garnett is one of the best defensive rebounders to ever play the game (I have no idea if the numbers back me up on this and I don't care - my eyes tell me what they tell me) and since that's an area where Dirk is beginning to rapidly decline, it has become the Mavs' single biggest issue on the defensive end.

I'll say this again, a bit differently: Defensive rebounding is IMPORTANT. If you told me Donnie and Cuban had discovered a way of cloning (and then signing) 1994 Jordan, I'd say "Word? That's neato, now who's gonna play center?" Getting better on the glass IMMEDIATELY should be this team's top priority if they want to win while they rebuild.

There's a lot of talk in this thread about his offense, which I find comical, frankly. I understand that Garnett is not an offensive star at this stage of his career, but answer the following questions:

• Can he shoot free throws?
• Can he hit jump shots from a variety of places on the floor?
• Can he cleanly handle a variety of interior passes?
• Is he still quick enough (at the 5) to be a threat in offensive transition?
• Does he have any effective post moves?
• Does he have experience passing out of double teams?
• When he's just retrieved an offensive rebound, does he have a decent understanding of what to do next?

If you're like me, you tagged each of those questions with a mental "Yes." So...why all the debate, pals? It seems to me KG would be an even better fit here than Chandler, who was unquestionably the best center this team has ever had.

In other words, I'd be in favor of a KG signing.

[dude1394]

KG (as much as I hate his thuggish attitude) is the closest thing to chandler out there. I'd have to go for it.

[Murphy3]

Originally Posted by KillerLeft

In my opinion, the Mavs should make a big push for KG this summer, regardless of whether Deron wants to come here or not. He solves so many of their biggest problems.

At the 5, which has become his best position, KG has the quickness and agility to show HARD on those high pick-n-rolls but recover to help in the paint quickly, and he's definitely top 2-3 as far as help side rim protection is concerned. He's also great (again, as a 5) in transition defensively. Does any of this sound familiar? These are pretty much the attributes that made Chandler so effective here last season, imho.

Then, it gets better. KG is SUPERIOR to chandler in two key areas: 1 on 1 post defense, where Chandler was more than adequate but not ideal, and defensive rebounding, which was Chandler's one noticeable (slight) weakness, imo. Garnett is one of the best defensive rebounders to ever play the game (I have no idea if the numbers back me up on this and I don't care - my eyes tell me what they tell me) and since that's an area where Dirk is beginning to rapidly decline, it has become the Mavs' single biggest issue on the defensive end.

I'll say this again, a bit differently: Defensive rebounding is IMPORTANT. If you told me Donnie and Cuban had discovered a way of cloning (and then signing) 1994 Jordan, I'd say "Word? That's neato, now who's gonna play center?" Getting better on the glass IMMEDIATELY should be this team's top priority if they want to win while they rebuild.

There's a lot of talk in this thread about his offense, which I find comical, frankly. I understand that Garnett is not an offensive star at this stage of his career, but answer the following questions:

• Can he shoot free throws?
• Can he hit jump shots from a variety of places on the floor?
• Can he cleanly handle a variety of interior passes?
• Is he still quick enough (at the 5) to be a threat in offensive transition?
• Does he have any effective post moves?
• Does he have experience passing out of double teams?
• When he's just retrieved an offensive rebound, does he have a decent understanding of what to do next?

If you're like me, you tagged each of those questions with a mental "Yes." So...why all the debate, pals? It seems to me KG would be an even better fit here than Chandler, who was unquestionably the best center this team has ever had.

In other words, I'd be in favor of a KG signing.

I don't think anyone's saying that he's not a good offensive player. That wasn't my point at all... I don't think anyone's saying that you don't sign the guy because he's not a dominant offensive player. My only point was that he's not a guy that keeps coaches up at night wondering "how do we stop this guy?". He's a good offensive player. As a human, he is a piece of sh!t.. but he's a good offensive player.

[grndmstr_c]

I hate KG, but if you could convince him and Nash to sign on for two years (i.e., for as long as Dirk's under contract), that'd be an excellent summer.

[jthig32]

I wonder if the Celtics still blow it up if they make the Finals this season.

[Underdog]

I like that both veterans are still playing at a high level - KG finished #5 in DPOY voting and Nash finished #2 in the league in assists, plus he made the All-Star team again.

Not a bad Plan C at all . . . but what was Plan B?

[Wang Zhi Zhi]

If you have Nash at the 1 (especially w/ Dirk at the 4), you better then find a young, athletic, lock-down defender with size to play the 2. Someone like D-Steve minus 5 years.

And don’t say Azibuke, b/c he’ll have been off the court for over 3 years (excluding this year’s 10 junk minutes) when the season tips off next year.

For all the great things Nash brings, he is a massive liability for your backcourt D. Him guarding Westbrook, Paul, Sessions, Parker, Lawson, etc is a nightmare. And Nash with Roddy or Terry at the 2 would just be giving up too much.

[LonghornDub]

My Plan C is to disband the team before mid-June of this year and claim that we're therefore champions forever.

[Jon]

Originally Posted by KillerLeft

In my opinion, the Mavs should make a big push for KG this summer, regardless of whether Deron wants to come here or not. He solves so many of their biggest problems.

At the 5, which has become his best position, KG has the quickness and agility to show HARD on those high pick-n-rolls but recover to help in the paint quickly, and he's definitely top 2-3 as far as help side rim protection is concerned. He's also great (again, as a 5) in transition defensively. Does any of this sound familiar? These are pretty much the attributes that made Chandler so effective here last season, imho.

Then, it gets better. KG is SUPERIOR to chandler in two key areas: 1 on 1 post defense, where Chandler was more than adequate but not ideal, and defensive rebounding, which was Chandler's one noticeable (slight) weakness, imo. Garnett is one of the best defensive rebounders to ever play the game (I have no idea if the numbers back me up on this and I don't care - my eyes tell me what they tell me) and since that's an area where Dirk is beginning to rapidly decline, it has become the Mavs' single biggest issue on the defensive end.

I'll say this again, a bit differently: Defensive rebounding is IMPORTANT. If you told me Donnie and Cuban had discovered a way of cloning (and then signing) 1994 Jordan, I'd say "Word? That's neato, now who's gonna play center?" Getting better on the glass IMMEDIATELY should be this team's top priority if they want to win while they rebuild.

There's a lot of talk in this thread about his offense, which I find comical, frankly. I understand that Garnett is not an offensive star at this stage of his career, but answer the following questions:

• Can he shoot free throws?
• Can he hit jump shots from a variety of places on the floor?
• Can he cleanly handle a variety of interior passes?
• Is he still quick enough (at the 5) to be a threat in offensive transition?
• Does he have any effective post moves?
• Does he have experience passing out of double teams?
• When he's just retrieved an offensive rebound, does he have a decent understanding of what to do next?

If you're like me, you tagged each of those questions with a mental "Yes." So...why all the debate, pals? It seems to me KG would be an even better fit here than Chandler, who was unquestionably the best center this team has ever had.

In other words, I'd be in favor of a KG signing.

I concur.

[NewMexiMav]

I will sign on to Plan C.

And if it doesn't work, I have an idea for Plan D: Fat Lever and Alex English

[vinylstar]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I don't know about KG. Remember the last 15 ppg, 8 rpg, 3 apg power forward we acquired? Didn't turn out so well....

No a Nash/KG combo would certainly be a decent plan C. Garnett is playing great at center in the this year's playoffs.

I know its a joke you are making, and there are plenty of reasons to hate KG, but quitting on a team 'cause his feelings are hurt is NOT something that would even occur to him.

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I wonder if the Celtics still blow it up if they make the Finals this season.

Yea, I think Allen is already gone....if one third of the Big 3 is considered a blow up.

[Murphy3]

Originally Posted by vinylstar

I know its a joke you are making, and there are plenty of reasons to hate KG, but quitting on a team 'cause his feelings are hurt is NOT something that would even occur to him.

No, but injuring a teammate because KG gets burned in practice probably is something that you might have to worry about.

[Thomas86]

Originally Posted by Wang Zhi Zhi

If you have Nash at the 1 (especially w/ Dirk at the 4), you better then find a young, athletic, lock-down defender with size to play the 2. Someone like D-Steve minus 5 years.

And don’t say Azibuke, b/c he’ll have been off the court for over 3 years (excluding this year’s 10 junk minutes) when the season tips off next year.

For all the great things Nash brings, he is a massive liability for your backcourt D. Him guarding Westbrook, Paul, Sessions, Parker, Lawson, etc is a nightmare. And Nash with Roddy or Terry at the 2 would just be giving up too much.

What about Danny Green?...I'm not sure the Spurs would let him go so easy but he could be the player your talking about.

[vinylstar]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

No, but injuring a teammate because KG gets burned in practice probably is something that you might have to worry about.

I'll take it over he who shall not be named.

[Wang Zhi Zhi]

Originally Posted by Thomas86

What about Danny Green?...I'm not sure the Spurs would let him go so easy but he could be the player your talking about.

I like it.

[KillerLeft]

Originally Posted by Jon

I concur.

I'm glad, pal!

[Scott McGuire]

Originally Posted by KillerLeft

In my opinion, the Mavs should make a big push for KG this summer, regardless of whether Deron wants to come here or not. He solves so many of their biggest problems.

At the 5, which has become his best position, KG has the quickness and agility to show HARD on those high pick-n-rolls but recover to help in the paint quickly, and he's definitely top 2-3 as far as help side rim protection is concerned. He's also great (again, as a 5) in transition defensively. Does any of this sound familiar? These are pretty much the attributes that made Chandler so effective here last season, imho.

Then, it gets better. KG is SUPERIOR to chandler in two key areas: 1 on 1 post defense, where Chandler was more than adequate but not ideal, and defensive rebounding, which was Chandler's one noticeable (slight) weakness, imo. Garnett is one of the best defensive rebounders to ever play the game (I have no idea if the numbers back me up on this and I don't care - my eyes tell me what they tell me) and since that's an area where Dirk is beginning to rapidly decline, it has become the Mavs' single biggest issue on the defensive end.

I'll say this again, a bit differently: Defensive rebounding is IMPORTANT. If you told me Donnie and Cuban had discovered a way of cloning (and then signing) 1994 Jordan, I'd say "Word? That's neato, now who's gonna play center?" Getting better on the glass IMMEDIATELY should be this team's top priority if they want to win while they rebuild.

There's a lot of talk in this thread about his offense, which I find comical, frankly. I understand that Garnett is not an offensive star at this stage of his career, but answer the following questions:

• Can he shoot free throws?
• Can he hit jump shots from a variety of places on the floor?
• Can he cleanly handle a variety of interior passes?
• Is he still quick enough (at the 5) to be a threat in offensive transition?
• Does he have any effective post moves?
• Does he have experience passing out of double teams?
• When he's just retrieved an offensive rebound, does he have a decent understanding of what to do next?

If you're like me, you tagged each of those questions with a mental "Yes." So...why all the debate, pals? It seems to me KG would be an even better fit here than Chandler, who was unquestionably the best center this team has ever had.

In other words, I'd be in favor of a KG signing.

I completely agree with this assessment. He may not be a guy coaches have nightmares about, but he will a least give them headaches. I really do wonder what kind of deal it would take to get KG. 2/16 or 2/20?

I also really like the Danny Green idea except that he is restricted "a la" Lin, Fields, and Asik. I'm sure the Spurs are going to keep him unless it's unreasonable. I don't want to be unreasonable.