Plan C?

[dalmations202]

the guy I hope never plays for the Mavs -- KMart

----------------------------------------------

Plan F, G, or H (way down the line stuff)

Move Marion, Terry (don't resign), and Haywood -- not really caring how.

Sign Kidd, Nash, Ray Allen, KG, Kirilenko. This makes you really need a defensive 6'8" guy your biggest need, and I think MBT can find one of those.

Nash, Kidd, Roddy
West, Allen
Kirilenko, Azibuke(sp?)
Dirk, Wright
KG, Ian

All on 2 year contracts -- when it blows up, then blow it completely up after a couple of years.

Lots of over the hill guys, but you really wouldn't want to play them in short series. Several guys who could take over. Lots of distribution with Kidd and Nash. Some Defense, various offensive ability. Fun to watch, IMO.

Those guys might all take a 2 year cut rate amount to come together and have a shot for a couple of years to win it all. Get them in their "roles" and who knows.

[tcat075]

Originally Posted by Kidd Karma

Duncan hates KG, this week's SI:

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.c...medium=twitter

I'm sold. Let's get him.

No, but seriously, as much as I dislike KG, I'd welcome him in a heartbeat. We have to get a center, and KG still is a damn good one.

[Melonhead]

There's this one guy I really like and think the mavs should do everything to get him...his name slips my mind but he had a career record 19 rebounds last night. Im sure someone can help me out here. He has a long career ahead of him.

Then Deron Williams

[Scott McGuire]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

There's this one guy I really like and think the mavs should do everything to get him...his name slips my mind but he had a career record 19 rebounds last night. Im sure someone can help me out here. He has a long career ahead of him.

Then Deron Williams

I think you're confusing this thread with the "Plan A" thread that hasn't been created yet. If we could actually get Hibbert and DWill then that would certainly be a home run offseason.

The most Hibbert can be offered starts at 12.9 million or so. With his current postseason I'd think the Pacers will match all the way up to that. Hibbert is not on my list of true max players though. But as a 25y/o legit top 5 center who can score and play defense he is a good bet to be almost worth his expensive contract. I think there should be no doubt that he will be wearing Pacers yellow next season.

[Murphy3]

I think just about everyone hates KG and it has nothing to do with him being a great player.. it has everything to do with him being a piece of sh!t.

[Kidd Karma]

Watching the Heat play with out Bosh has me thinking this Big 3 thing isn't all that great in this new CBA Era. I mean you got 3 guys out there who should be playing 40 minutes per scoring 20 each. Right now they're pulling in what 17 million each, leaving 4 million in space, the rest of the bench are filled by old vets or young late draft picks. #3 of the Big 3 goes down and it's a huge void with #1 and #2 trying to pick up for #3's void. I mean they're all human and one play away from a series changing play...Bosh...Rose. Now all year Battier, Miller, Haslem, Anthony have all been watching the Big 3 play, now in the ultimate series, they're asked to pick it up. Miami really has to hope one of their draft picks turns into Rondo or a Perkins. Given the Mavs last 3-4 drafts, has me wondering if a Big 3 is such a good idea. I still see the need for that star, go to guy, but how about building a team like Indiana where there's good depth.

[markus1234]

Big 3: Harden, Westbrook, Durant
Big 3: Manu, Parker, Duncan
Big 3: Kobe, Bynum, Gasol
Big 3: Pierce, Garnett, Rondo
Big 3: Paul, Griffin, Billups
Big 3: Chandler, Melo, Amare
Big 3: Granger, West, Hibbert
and so on...

To make it short, you better have 3 "all star caliber" guys on your roster...or it will be a short series.

People concentrate too much on MIA and forget the other teams, when it comes to the "big 3" philosophy.

Of course Lebron+Wade are on a higher level and there is simply more hype around them but still..."big 3" is not an exception.

[mavs777]

Miami made the finals in year 1 with the big 3 seems like it has worked fine for them.

[mavs777]

Originally Posted by markus1234

Big 3: Harden, Westbrook, Durant
Big 3: Manu, Parker, Duncan
Big 3: Kobe, Bynum, Gasol
Big 3: Pierce, Garnett, Rondo
Big 3: Paul, Griffin, Billups
Big 3: Chandler, Melo, Amare
Big 3: Granger, West, Hibbert
and so on...

To make it short, you better have 3 "all star caliber" guys on your roster...or it will be a short series.

People concentrate too much on MIA and forget the other teams, when it comes to the "big 3" philosophy.

Of course Lebron+Wade are on a higher level and there is simply more hype around them but still..."big 3" is not an exception.

Lots of the players listed here aren't all star caliber.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

I said "every single Mavs fan." This stance shows you're more into hyperbole and hatred than being a fan. If you'd "rather the Mavs play .500 basketball than win championships" for any reason other than cheating or illegality, that pretty much says it all.

I'm with murph on diva. I truly Hate the dude.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

I'm not gonna sit here and say outright that you're not at Mavs fan. I'm sure you've been rooting for the team a long time.

That said, if you'd put something as petty as "I don't like this guy" over the success of the team at large, I'm not really sure what your priorities are in all this stuff. In the case of Wade or LeBron (versus maybe some of the other guys mentioned here), we're not talking about a player who might make the team arguably better but may not be worth the trouble. We're talking about two guys who are the very best in the league and don't do much wrong other than having certain personality flaws.

Sometimes I think having Dirk has really spoiled some people. Most top athletes aren't so perfectly likable. You're lucky to get one like him ever.



Don't be ridiculous. You don't need to be on Cuban's payroll to question an untenable "fandom" stance.

I mean come on.. There has to be a limit here. What if the dude was a pedophile. I don't think divas a pedophile, but if the Mavs hired him. I would feel all bad luck that befell them was deserved.

[markus1234]

Originally Posted by mavs777

Lots of the players listed here aren't all star caliber.

my definition

All star caliber = "all star" or "all NBA" in the last 2yrs or in the next 2yrs.

I think that's pretty fair.

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by markus1234

Big 3: Harden, Westbrook, Durant
Big 3: Manu, Parker, Duncan
Big 3: Kobe, Bynum, Gasol
Big 3: Pierce, Garnett, Rondo
Big 3: Paul, Griffin, Billups
Big 3: Chandler, Melo, Amare
Big 3: Granger, West, Hibbert
and so on...

To make it short, you better have 3 "all star caliber" guys on your roster...or it will be a short series.

People concentrate too much on MIA and forget the other teams, when it comes to the "big 3" philosophy.

Of course Lebron+Wade are on a higher level and there is simply more hype around them but still..."big 3" is not an exception.

Case in point Chicago: Rose, Boozer, Deng
And now Miami minus Bosh.

[Scott McGuire]

Originally Posted by Kidd Karma

Watching the Heat play with out Bosh has me thinking this Big 3 thing isn't all that great in this new CBA Era. I mean you got 3 guys out there who should be playing 40 minutes per scoring 20 each. Right now they're pulling in what 17 million each, leaving 4 million in space, the rest of the bench are filled by old vets or young late draft picks. #3 of the Big 3 goes down and it's a huge void with #1 and #2 trying to pick up for #3's void. I mean they're all human and one play away from a series changing play...Bosh...Rose. Now all year Battier, Miller, Haslem, Anthony have all been watching the Big 3 play, now in the ultimate series, they're asked to pick it up. Miami really has to hope one of their draft picks turns into Rondo or a Perkins. Given the Mavs last 3-4 drafts, has me wondering if a Big 3 is such a good idea. I still see the need for that star, go to guy, but how about building a team like Indiana where there's good depth.

I believe MBT's plan is simply get people whose value exceeds their contract. Max contract superstars are underpaid. LeBron, Wade and Bosh are all worth way more than they are getting. If that opportunity arrises you jump at it.

Deron at the max we can pay is a bargin. Players like Dragic/Batum/McGee will be bid on till their contracts will be more than they are worth. If another true Max player wanted to commit to Dallas within what we can pay you are getting a deal.

The problem of injury always exists. You can't try to plan for it. Imagine our true "team" last year without any one of our non-superstar players Tyson/Terry/Kidd/Marion/Barea. Without anyone of those our odds drop significantly.

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by Scott McGuire

I believe MBT's plan is simply get people whose value exceeds their contract. Max contract superstars are underpaid. LeBron, Wade and Bosh are all worth way more than they are getting. If that opportunity arrises you jump at it.

Deron at the max we can pay is a bargin. Players like Dragic/Batum/McGee will be bid on till their contracts will be more than they are worth. If another true Max player wanted to commit to Dallas within what we can pay you are getting a deal.

The problem of injury always exists. You can't try to plan for it. Imagine our true "team" last year without any one of our non-superstar players Tyson/Terry/Kidd/Marion/Barea. Without anyone of those our odds drop significantly.

Good point, forgot about Cuban's value on players versus dollar spent.

[Scott McGuire]

Originally Posted by Kidd Karma

Good point, forgot about Cuban's value on players versus dollar spent.

I'd word that differently. It's a small but big difference.

Cuban's value on players versus capspace spent or dollar below the luxury tax line spent.

I think Cuban has proven in the past that if the strategy was to spend a ton to build a true contender he'd spend what it took. The new strategy takes into account the higher value of capspace and the stiff penalties of the luxury tax. Being in the luxury tax makes everything so hard that it is honestly a hard cap.

Again, I'm sure you meant all that, but I thought I'd talk about it anyway.

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by Scott McGuire

I'd word that differently. It's a small but big difference.

Cuban's value on players versus capspace spent or dollar below the luxury tax line spent.

I think Cuban has proven in the past that if the strategy was to spend a ton to build a true contender he'd spend what it took. The new strategy takes into account the higher value of capspace and the stiff penalties of the luxury tax. Being in the luxury tax makes everything so hard that it is honestly a hard cap.

Again, I'm sure you meant all that, but I thought I'd talk about it anyway.

Yea, its a new day in NBA economics with the new CBA. Cuban even mentioned a market correction once the stiff taxes kick in, in 13-14. Interesting article from Lebron's Cavs days about his real value:

http://basketball.realgm.com/src_fea...e_open_market/

[Erod]

Geez, Cuban has completely screwed the pooch on this.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Erod

Geez, Cuban has completely screwed the pooch on this.

How so? Free agency hasn't begun, so Cuban hasn't even had the opportunity to "screw the pooch" yet...

[sike]

Originally Posted by markus1234

Big 3: Harden, Westbrook, Durant
Big 3: Manu, Parker, Duncan
Big 3: Kobe, Bynum, Gasol
Big 3: Pierce, Garnett, Rondo
Big 3: Paul, Griffin, Billups
Big 3: Chandler, Melo, Amare
Big 3: Granger, West, Hibbert
and so on....

And in 2011: Dirk, .........................????

Dirk's win in 2011 = One of the most impressive Championship runs in the last 25yrs.

[sike]

This is a great thread by the way.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Underdog

How so? Free agency hasn't begun, so Cuban hasn't even had the opportunity to "screw the pooch" yet...

Ever noticed how people like to commit themselves prematurely to very negative positions, because if they end up being wrong, nobody's really gonna care since everybody will be happy with the result?

Good stuff.

[sike]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Ever noticed how people like to commit themselves prematurely to very negative positions, because if they end up being wrong, nobody's really gonna care since everybody will be happy with the result?

Good stuff.

insight is a rare thing 'round these parts.

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by sike

And in 2011: Dirk, .........................????

Dirk's win in 2011 = One of the most impressive Championship runs in the last 25yrs.

I agree Dirk's run was impressive but let's not forget Dirk did had help. I know he was probably the only player of All Star caliber on the roster(Maybe Chandler?) but he got great contributions from his teammates. Jason Terry was just as dominate in 4th quarters as some of these other stars last year in the post season.

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

I agree Dirk's run was impressive but let's not forget Dirk did had help. I know he was probably the only player of All Star caliber on the roster(Maybe Chandler?) but he got great contributions from his teammates. Jason Terry was just as dominate in 4th quarters as some of these other stars last year in the post season.

True Dat, in the title clincher as horrid as Dirk shot in the 1st half, someone had to keep us close....that was JET offensively.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

I agree Dirk's run was impressive but let's not forget Dirk did had help. I know he was probably the only player of All Star caliber on the roster(Maybe Chandler?) but he got great contributions from his teammates. Jason Terry was just as dominate in 4th quarters as some of these other stars last year in the post season.

He did have help, but its was never consistent help from the same guy, was usually the roving variety. You'd have Peja for a few games, Marion, Stevenson, etc. etc. Out of the "big 3s" mentioned, you usually know you're getting something consistent night in and night out from those guys. You never really could count on consistent stuff from night to night, thus they counted on their depth so they could find the right spark.

2011 was the perfect storm. You had the auxiliary pieces play arguably the best stretch of basketball of their respective careers when it was absolutely needed from them. The driving force for them was the fact that Dirk emerged as the best player on the planet over the course of the run. The stuff he did against LA and OKC were downright filthy.

[Erod]

What did we pay LaFrentz, Bradley, Van Horn, Dampier....

And what's Chandler making in New York again?

[clutch#41]

Originally Posted by Erod

What did we pay LaFrentz, Bradley, Van Horn, Dampier....

And what's Chandler making in New York again?

lets see what happens with the Mavs this offseason before you make that statement!!

[markus1234]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Ever noticed how people like to commit themselves prematurely to very negative positions, because if they end up being wrong, nobody's really gonna care since everybody will be happy with the result?

Good stuff.

Ever noticed how people like to commit themselves all season long to very positive positions, because if they end up being wrong, nobody's really gonna care since everybody will be thinking about next season already ?

Good stuff.

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Out of the "big 3s" mentioned, you usually know you're getting something consistent night in and night out from those guys.

1st of all, you do not need to make them better. All star caliber players simply perform on a high level no matter if the "alpha animal" is on the floor or not. They "do their thing",...in Dirk's words.

Kidd, Jet, Peja, JJB and co. on the other hand needed Dirk's presence to perform on a high level. Which put lots of pressure on Dirk. He could not really afford to have an "off night".

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Erod

What did we pay LaFrentz, Bradley, Van Horn, Dampier....

And what's Chandler making in New York again?

It has to be a weak argument when you are referencing contracts signed pre-2005...and Van Horn was never signed, Cuban got him in a trade.

It is 2012 now. Welcome to a new decade!

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

It has to be a weak argument when you are referencing contracts signed pre-2005...and Van Horn was never signed, Cuban got him in a trade.

It is 2012 now. Welcome to a new decade!

LaFrentz was acquired by trade as well, along with NVE.

[BGMaverick9]

For a callback to the past, a guy I'd personally keep tabs on once the initial dust starts to settle is Gerald Green. It looks like he's finally starting to get the fact that he can't look at the association as just a way to have fun but an actual career, one that takes work and dedication.

He's still got that athleticism and has developed a nice outside jumper. The stats in NJ will be skewed a bit since it was pretty much a mess, but he did a good job stepping up and asserting himself as a scoring threat. Might not necessarily translate into starting two guard material for a team with championship aspirations, but he could be a very potent option off the bench.

[mavs777]

i think the reports are all indications are he will stick in NJ as he and his agent are happy they gave him a real chance.

edit: referring to green

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Kidd Karma

LaFrentz was acquired by trade as well, along with NVE.

I'm assuming he is referring to contract Cuban signed him to after Raef became a free agent.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by markus1234

Ever noticed how people like to commit themselves all season long to very positive positions, because if they end up being wrong, nobody's really gonna care since everybody will be thinking about next season already ?

Good stuff.

Derp.