I'd love to not hear these two things ever again... - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Murphy3 · 09-08-2003, 08:23 AM

1. one of the arguments used against Hutch was that QCar has more pocket presence. QCar has no pocket presence.

2. that quincy is mobile. Sure, he may be faster than the average QB. But, he usually chooses not to run. On the pass that he had intercepted, he had an open sidelines. He could have picked up between 7-15 yards, depending upon whether or not he could have turned the corner.

Carter cannot throw on the move. Please, never have him throw a pass on a roll out...and fine him every time he scrambles and chooses to throw the ball

dirno2000 · 09-08-2003, 10:34 AM

Chad has not pocked presence, so it's not hard to have more. On the bomb to Galloway, he sidesteped a rusher to make the throw. I don't know that Chad makes that play.

I don't know why Quincy won't run. That interception was a terrible play, because like you said, he had a lot of open field with only one man to beat. He probably could have run in the goal line incompletion to Campbell also. I do however, think that Quincy is taking too much blame for that play. He didn't get his shoulders squared and made a bad throw, but Campbel adjusted and got his hands on the ball. Any half decent receiver will tell you, If you can touch the ball, you should catch it. It was a bad throw, but he gets paid to make plays too.

Murphy3 · 09-08-2003, 10:38 AM

sure, QCar made a nice sidestep..but how many times does he miss open receivers because:
1. he doesn't appear to see the field well.
2. he just flat out makes a poor throw

dirno2000 · 09-08-2003, 10:45 AM

True, he does both of those things at times, as do a lot of young QB's. I know the young thing is getting old, but I do see him progressing. I'm not yet ready to say that he can't be a qood quarterback. If he sucks again this year I will be, but not now.

If we do need a new QB, we will have to go the free agent route. Jerry gambled on Quincy and Chad developing. If they don't there is no way Parcells waits three more years for Eli Manning to develop.

Big Boy Laroux · 09-08-2003, 10:50 AM

that's one thing that baffles me about carter. he has good wheels, he should use them. there was another play where he could've run straight up the field (for probably about a 15-20 yard run), but threw an incompletion... one of the things he has an advantage over hutch is his speed... he should utilize it. he'll never be a mike vick, but he should be able to make those runs.

Murphy3 · 09-08-2003, 11:44 AM

the sad thing is, is that Hutch has actually been a better runner than QCar at this point in there careers.

QCarFan · 09-08-2003, 04:13 PM

Skewed stats don't prove a thing, anyone with any knowledge what so ever of the two knows that Carter is a better runner than Hutchinson. It's just that simple.............

kg_veteran · 09-08-2003, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: QCarFan
Skewed stats don't prove a thing, anyone with any knowledge what so ever of the two knows that Carter is a better runner than Hutchinson. It's just that simple.............

Huh? Who quoted statistics?

Everyone knows Carter is the faster runner; however, neither guy is an effective runner.

It's just that simple.

QCarFan · 09-08-2003, 04:54 PM

But saying Hutchinson is a better runner, is pretty ridiculous and quite hilarious as well. Some people must watch the game with the sound off, because the announcers sure seem to think that Carter is alot better runner than Hutchinson.

Murphy3 · 09-08-2003, 05:17 PM

who said hutch was a faster runner? hutch runs like he has three lead feet. however, when he runs, he's more effective. he makes less bad decisions than QCar. Carter is a horrific passer when he's on the move..yet, he continues to scramble and throw the ball...

Drbio · 09-08-2003, 05:19 PM

Maybe you should type slower murph so the comprehension level will increase.

MavsFanatik33 · 09-08-2003, 05:20 PM

Carter is an effective runner when he actually decides to run. He gets very scared out of the pocket, I think this is the main reason for this interceptions. He really needs to work on out-of-the pocket passing or defenses will just blitz every play. Did you notice how effective Atlanta's blitzing was on 2nd and long? Carter gets too scared to play against it.

kg_veteran · 09-08-2003, 05:25 PM

Quote:

But saying Hutchinson is a better runner, is pretty ridiculous and quite hilarious as well.

Not that I really care, but how is it ridiculous? When you look back at last year, Hutchinson averaged 4.1 yards per carry; Carter averaged 3.4 yards per carry. Doesn't sound too ridiculous to me.

I suppose it would be ridiculous if Carter were actually a good runner. But he's not. They're both bad at it.

QCarFan · 09-08-2003, 05:29 PM

I am not sure who said faster, but you said better which no one but you seems to believe from what I have heard on this particular topic.

kg_veteran · 09-08-2003, 05:30 PM

Just like the question of who's the better quarterback, it really doesn't matter who's the better runner when <u>neither of them is a good runner</u>.

Murphy3 · 09-08-2003, 05:33 PM

i know who is faster...i know who is more athletic..it's QCar. Who's more effective when they do decide to run? Hands down, it's chad hutchinson...without a doubt. Carter makes too many stupid mistakes when he runs.

Hutch gets into trouble when he's unable to avoid the pressure in the pocket..but whenever he decides to run, he's much less susceptible to the stupid mistake that so blatantly comes in and bites QCar in the ass

QCarFan · 09-08-2003, 05:33 PM

Like I said, skewed stats mean nothing. Listen to the announcers all throughout preseason, all agreed that Carter is alot better runner than Hutchinson. It's hilarious, and ridiculous. But that's my opinion, which is shared by alot of peole.

FilthyFinMavs · 09-08-2003, 05:37 PM

OMG. You mean to tell me you guys actually believe Hutch is a better runner than Quincy? What? If the guy could run he would be our starting qb. Simple as that. I don't care what Parcells said Hutch didn't make starter because he had no pocket presence and would get sacked. I understand you guys are upset at Quincy but the only thing we can debate when it comes to Quincy and Hutch is there accuracy. Hutch is not a runner at all. I don't care what stats say. Those stats are lying there asses off.

Murphy3 · 09-08-2003, 05:38 PM

they're not skewed.
Carter has all the ability in the world to be a better runner..however, he makes so many poor decisions when he runs that he might be the worst QB in the league on the run.

it is hilarious that you can't look at what anyone says and comprehend what they're saying.

Carter constantly makes mistakes when he decides to run..he ends up throwing on the run and that's a recipe for disaster for him. If he tucked it under and decided to see how much yardage he could get while running, it would be a different story. However, that is not the case

QCarFan · 09-08-2003, 05:41 PM

One of the reason, Carter won the starting job was because he was mobile. So, I am sure Parcells dont look at skewed stats and try to determine who is a better runner. He, like many others look at the bottomline which is, Carter is the better runner of the two when determining who is the better runner. If he wasn't as effective, then I am sure Parcells would have went another way, since you guys seem to think he can't throw the ball. BottomLine is, I am sure Parcells looked at everything when determing the starter and who will back whom up and he chose Carter because he does everything the QB is supposed to do better than the other two.

kg_veteran · 09-08-2003, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Like I said, skewed stats mean nothing. Listen to the announcers all throughout preseason, all agreed that Carter is alot better runner than Hutchinson. It's hilarious, and ridiculous. But that's my opinion, which is shared by alot of peole.

Skewed stats? Dude, I just quoted a damn "yards per carry" stat directly from Yahoo.

I've listened to the announcers, and I don't hear anyone saying Carter is a good runner.

Do you think he's a good runner? Drop your Hutchinson crutch for one second and answer that question, if you can.

kg_veteran · 09-08-2003, 05:46 PM

Quote:

OMG. You mean to tell me you guys actually believe Hutch is a better runner than Quincy? What?

Murph clearly does, but I thought I made my opinion pretty clear: They're both terrible runners.

Quote:

I understand you guys are upset at Quincy

WTF? Explain, please.

Quote:

but the only thing we can debate when it comes to Quincy and Hutch is there accuracy. Hutch is not a runner at all. I don't care what stats say. Those stats are lying there asses off.

There really should be no debate about the two players. They're both terrible. We should be talking about Quincy (since he's the starter) and how he stacks up against the objective standard of what constitutes a decent NFL quarterback. And clearly, he doesn't stack up well.

QCarFan · 09-08-2003, 05:54 PM

What are you talking about murphy3, if he throws the ball its a pass, albeit if he throws it on the run. A pass is a pass, and a run is a run. When they tuck the ball in, and decide to run, CARTER is byfar better. Hutchs inability to avoid sucks should count against his running abilities, which it may do because some of the sacks he takes is completely on his shoulders. The guy is no runner, it's just that simple. Carter is a better runner, which is the bottomline and you are wrong.

QCarFan · 09-08-2003, 05:59 PM

Yes, when he decides to tuck the ball in and runs, yes he is a good runner. There's your answer kg..........

jayC · 09-08-2003, 06:00 PM

Hutch fumbles the ball too much as well as getting sacked too much. Qcard can't decide when to run and when to pass. Too bad you can't merge the two qbs. It is just one game, against a stingy defense.

kg_veteran · 09-08-2003, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Yes, when he decides to tuck the ball in and runs, yes he is a good runner. There's your answer kg..........

Is that why he ranked among the bottom quarterbacks in the league last year in terms of yards per carry and total yards? Being fast and athletic does not automatically make you a good runner.

QCarFan · 09-08-2003, 06:24 PM

Some of that has to do with sacks as well, but again kg when he decides to tuck the ball and run with it then in my opinion he is a good runner. It's that simple.......

Drbio · 09-08-2003, 07:54 PM

None of our QB's can run well. They all suck.

QCarFan · 09-08-2003, 08:42 PM

Way to bring something to the discussion drbio, way to go!

Drbio · 09-08-2003, 08:49 PM

If you mean thanks Doc for stating then obvious, then I am glad that you finally have gotten it into your thick head that both our main quarterbacks suck.

QCarFan · 09-08-2003, 09:00 PM

oh, so you prefer doc, not drbio? and thats your opinion, we dont share the same one

Drbio · 09-08-2003, 09:05 PM

I've earned the title...so sure...feel free to call me Doc. if you earned a similar title in elementary school, please let us know and we will be happy to use it. How about Hall Monitor Qsparefan?

As for the opinion thing. You are entitled to your opinion....even if you ignore facts while formulating it.

kg_veteran · 09-08-2003, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Some of that has to do with sacks as well, but again kg when he decides to tuck the ball and run with it then in my opinion he is a good runner. It's that simple.......

Thank you for admitting that it is your opinion, and nothing based upon any facts or logic.

FilthyFinMavs · 09-08-2003, 09:14 PM

This whole Quincy debate is about to start getting ugly before he can even play a 2nd game of a NFL season.

QCarFan · 09-08-2003, 09:23 PM

Well, how about this take a poll of the Coaches, GMs, Players in the league and ask them whether they think Carter is a good runner or not. It's about opinions when you ask someone if a player is good at something or not. Hell, you said Hutchinson had more yards per carry than Carter, so that should discredit that list right there. Because if you take a poll, of all the GMs, Coaches, etc etc of who is the better runner I am sure 99% of them will say Carter is alot better at running with the ball than Hutchinson. There's always going to be that one or two who has skewed stats, or just have an opinion where nothing can't change it. Even having 99 people out of 100 saying the other is better than your guy.

Drbio · 09-08-2003, 09:33 PM

You once again are trying to spin this into what it is not. BOTH quarterbacks suck on the run. Neither are good at it. Qcrappy is better at avoiding the sack due to athleticism, but when he gets out of it he is not a good runnner. Don't make this into a hutch thing. it's a qcrapola is a bad qb and an average at best runner thing.

edit- once again...please state who you are talking to. I think it's murph, but you make it sound like kg, me or whoever else is in the thread.

QCarFan · 09-08-2003, 09:38 PM

Sure Doc, we will agree to disagree on how good a runner they both are. How's that?

Drbio · 09-08-2003, 09:40 PM

Who were you talking to?

kg_veteran · 09-08-2003, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Well, how about this take a poll of the Coaches, GMs, Players in the league and ask them whether they think Carter is a good runner or not.

Quote:

Because if you take a poll, of all the GMs, Coaches, etc etc of who is the better runner I am sure 99% of them will say Carter is alot better at running with the ball than Hutchinson.

These are two very different things. The second poll, you might be right, you might be wrong. The first poll, I have no doubts that you'd find out that people around the league don't think Carter's much of a runner.

QCarFan · 09-08-2003, 09:46 PM

You said you prefer Doc right? So I am talking to you, and anyone else who disagrees with me on him being a good runner. So that means kg too