what are they worth to you? - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Jeremiah · 01-13-2004, 11:19 PM

Antawn and Antoine, and just for good measure, Finley and Nash. We know their salaries, but we also know, or think that some are overpaid. So if you could have your pick of the litter, but you were constrained by your good sense, or someone else's to be fair, what kind of value would you assign these 4? I'll start and lead by example:

Jamison- He has a twin in Atlanta named Shareef. Shareef has a better jumpshot, AJ is better around the hoop, but they both score inside and out. They also have been on losers since they were hired, and can't seem to win. Their ppg and rpg are about the same as well. As an added bonus, their salaries are nearly identical. (from what I remember, I admit I didn't check)

SAR would be as even a trade I could think of for AJ, and I had to put that out there b/c I think they are so similar. So SAR at ANY salary level would be equal to AJ in my book. Who else?

Mashburn would equal AJ in my eyes. I like Mashburn, and think he's better than AJ, but his injuries make him less dependable, and therefore less valuable.

the triplet of Kwame and Larry Hughes and a future first would be fair compensation I think. Larry can't shoot, though he can fill it up, but he's just a younger, more athletic, taller version of Tony Delk. Brown is still a prospect, and might be a bust, but other players have been rejuvenated in new surroundings, and others have gotten better as they've grown past teen years, so I think Kwame's historic failure, with his promise, Larry, and a future first would equal Jamison.

Again, I'm not looking at salaries...

Walker: Jalen Rose is about what I think he's worth. Jalen isn't a big, but he's versatile, and he runs. AW is not really a big, but he can play 3-4 positions.

SAM I AM would also be equal I think. He's good, and heck, looks darn good next to KG, just as I think walk would look stupendous in ATL, or WAS, or ORL...

Nash: Vince. VC is younger, but has missed nearly two seasons. He might be a stretch though. VC's youth is also negated by Nash's ability and willingness to be the man on the team and take over games, and by his relative hardiness over the past 3 years.

EDDY Curry and Hinrich. Normally no, except Curry is still underachieving so he lacks the gleam a center that produces nightly would. Hinrich, though he's been given the reins in Chi, he's still a rook and prone to rook mistakes. His potential though looks very good, and Curry's is good as well.

Mike: picks 3-5 in any draft. Eric Dampier and a 2nd rounder in the top 3-5. Mike bibby. picks 3-5 should yield a star, Mike is or has been a star in this league, and is good enough to be a star on a team where he is the options 1 2 or 3. Sortof like the SAR Pau trade.

Damp's a good C, and a 2nd round prospect would even it out I think. I want to say more, but Damp, right now, is having a monster season, and Fin is having a so so season on the statsheet. That said, Damp isn't great, but his value is high now, and Fin isn't bad, but his value probably isn't as high as it could be now.

Bibby is a guy I think straight up is equal to Mike. Bib's younger and plays a position that is more coveted, but Mike's got the track record behind him.

Agree, disagree, or just submit your own list. And while I just limited mine to players on the same team, feel free to combine them, like Barbosa, Christie, and Jarvis Hayes for Mike Finley.

StupidDannyAInge · 01-13-2004, 11:26 PM

Walker should go to Cleveland where he could play with the ultimate team player in Lebron James.
Jamison should also go there too.
How about trading Walker and Jaimson to Clevland for Illguaskas and some filler.

A new big 3.

AdamAMMP · 01-14-2004, 01:26 AM

I'd like to work something out with the Hornets.

Maybe something like Walker, Delk and Best for Brown, Armstrong and Lynch.

We get Defense and a hell of a back up for nash.

MightyToine · 01-14-2004, 02:08 AM

How about Walker stays and that's that? [img]i/expressions/rolleye.gif[/img]

It could happen, people. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

ddh33 · 01-14-2004, 02:32 AM

Forgive me for approaching this in a little different manner.

Dirk is a matchup nightmare andone of the best offensive players in the league. He can single-handedly carry his team to victory with his scoring ability. He needs to improve some things, but there aren't any more than about 3-5 guys I would trade him for. He's that good.

Steve Nash is awfully valuable simply because he is one of the best PGs in the entire league. I also happen to think that he is the engine and leader of this team. Despite not being the best player, I believe he is this team's MVP. That would be hard to replace.

Michael Finley is still the heart of this team. There's no doubt that his game has regressed some, I'm sure partially due to less oppurtunities than in times past. But look at this way, Finley is more valuable to the Mavs than he is anywhere else. I don't think he goes anywhere.

Antawn Jamison is a glorified role player who thrives playing off the ball. I would not consider him a star, but he is a great guy to have on your team, even if he is overpaid. If I'm building a team, he's not a guy I would start with, but if I'm trying to surround my core players with efficient, solid players, who are also good guys. I would look to start with him. I think his personality is what really separates him from a lot of other guys in this league who have equal or greater talent. That's why I would probably prefer to keep him. A lot of guys wouldn't accept the role Jamison has, and that includes guys like Mashburn and Abdur-Rahim.

Antoine Walker is another very good, very talented player. Sadly, Walker is the worst fit for our Mavericks out of this bunch. He may also be a superior player to a couple of others on this list. It's hard for me to compare Walker to other NBA players, excpet to say that he is a volume shooter who needs to dominate the ball to be most effective. He really does kind of remind me of Jalen Rose in that respect. Because of that, he is the one I would most be willing to deal.

grndmstr_c · 01-14-2004, 03:44 AM

See, I'm not entirely sure that he needs to dominate the ball to be most effective. It's one of the reasons I'm still a bit torn concerning him. If he had (or could develop) the mentality of a role player I think he would be able to play at an extremely high level in terms of helping (t)his team win. I really do think the guy has a world of talent, and completely irrespective of his poor shooting, just has it in him to play the game. The problem, I think, is that he's become so habitually comfortable with playing the role of "the guy" that he's kinda been typecast, most likely by others as much as himself, in a role that he's not best suited for. If we do end up hanging on to him I really hope he'll be able to come around to that, though I don't know how confident I am that he will.

madape · 01-14-2004, 10:15 AM

Jamison is the worst defender on this team. For us, he's just a junk scorer like Cedric Ceballos. We don't run plays for him... he's an opportunistic scorer. He's an OK offensive rebounder, but not a very good defensive rebounder. His game offensive game is positioning: Get the ball near the basket and put it in. But the problem is that when Jamison is near the basket, no one else should be near the basket. Our offense needs spacing, and you can't have spacing with two guys within five feet of the rim. Ideally, I'd like to get a bigger body down low, or have nobody camped out down there at all. We'd get much better shots with passes coming off cutters, pick and rolls, elbow sets, etc. I think we'd be a better offensive team without Jamison. I know we'd be a better defensive team.

Antoine Walker is the best defender on the team right now with Shawn and Howard out. Nelson has said that he routinely puts Walker on our opponent's best scorer. That's not saying a whole lot, but at least Walker isn't a glaring defensive liability like Jamison. I think he's an incredibly gifted offensive player in the mold of Chris Webber... a versatile passer, scorer, shooter. The perfect in-out offensive complement to Dirk and Steve. We need to get him to push the pace a little bit more, but other than that I can't find much to complain about. I think his a great fit for this team.

madape · 01-14-2004, 10:15 AM

Jamison is the worst defender on this team. For us, he's just a junk scorer like Cedric Ceballos. We don't run plays for him... he's an opportunistic scorer. He's an OK offensive rebounder, but not a very good defensive rebounder. His game offensive game is positioning: Get the ball near the basket and put it in. But the problem is that when Jamison is near the basket, no one else should be near the basket. Our offense needs spacing, and you can't have spacing with two guys within five feet of the rim. Ideally, I'd like to get a bigger body down low, or have nobody camped out down there at all. We'd get much better shots with passes coming off cutters, pick and rolls, elbow sets, etc. I think we'd be a better offensive team without Jamison. I know we'd be a better defensive team.

Antoine Walker is the best defender on the team right now with Shawn and Howard out. Nelson has said that he routinely puts Walker on our opponent's best scorer. That's not saying a whole lot, but at least Walker isn't a glaring defensive liability like Jamison. I think he's an incredibly gifted offensive player in the mold of Chris Webber... a versatile passer, scorer, shooter. The perfect in-out offensive complement to Dirk and Steve. We need to get him to push the pace a little bit more, but other than that I can't find much to complain about. I think his a great fit for this team.

LRB · 01-14-2004, 05:56 PM

I'd trade Walker for 2 to 3 good roleplayers in a heartbeat. Jamison would be the one who I'd trade next. I would try to keep the Big 3 intact unless a fanastic deal came up, something like KG or Duncan.

Walker is worth more to other teams than he is to us. So we'd be better off trading him.

MightyToine · 01-15-2004, 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: LRB
I'd trade Walker for 2 to 3 good roleplayers in a heartbeat. Jamison would be the one who I'd trade next. I would try to keep the Big 3 intact unless a fanastic deal came up, something like KG or Duncan.

Walker is worth more to other teams than he is to us. So we'd be better off trading him.

Oh really? Tell Danny Ainge that. Portland REJECTED a Sheed for Walker deal, just so you know. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

madape · 01-15-2004, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Portland REJECTED a Sheed for Walker deal, just so you know. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

You mean from US or from Boston?

MightyToine · 01-15-2004, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: madape

Quote:

Portland REJECTED a Sheed for Walker deal, just so you know. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

You mean from US or from Boston?

From Boston of course!! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

If they didn't want Walker then, what makes anyone here think they want Walker now? The guy is in the final year of his contract NEXT YEAR...not this year.