Mavs lose at Celtics: 31-14 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

ddh33 · 01-31-2008, 11:01 PM

Boston 96, Dallas 90. Well, that was a disappointing loss to the Celtics without Kevin Garnett. The Mavs were also short-handed, but they lost a game they should have won. Unfortunately, the Mavs didn't execute down the stretch, and they did a horrible job on the defensive boards. That was the difference.

I can't stand the guy at all, but does everyone see why I wanted James Posey this summer? He played a great game.

Dirk Nowitzki looked like the MVP for the entire second half of tonight's game. He was brilliant by scoring and even defending the lane. I wish he would have any kind of help at all. Instead, Dirk was all alone out there. He almost won this one by himself though with 31 points, 11 rebounds, 6 assists, and 3 blocks. Great effort from him.

Hey, could someone tell me why Dirk is the only offensive option for the entire second half but when the Mavs need a score to tie with under 30 seconds, they go away from him? That speaks awfully poorly of somebody...

With all of the Jason Kidd rumors flying around, let me point out a couple of things. First of all, with every passing possession Devin Harris became more and more valuable. The offense was atrocious without him. Secondly, any hope of dealing away Jason Terry should probably be shelved. I was very disappointed with him. He had 6 assists, but don't fool yourself. Those assists usually came about because Bass or Dirk hit a jumper after he passed it to them. It wasn't because Jet was doing much of anything. In fact, Jet was having a tough time even dribbling.

By the way, Rajon Rondo scored 14 points, had 12 rebounds, 6 offensive rebounds, and had 4 assists. Yeah, Jet was bad.

JJ had 4 assists and a steal in 9 minutes. I found myself wishing he was getting more minutes tonight, believe it or not.

Josh Howard got off to a hot start offensively, like always, by scoring 13 in the first quarter. He finished with 19. Yuck. And he couldn't keep Pierce or Allen from scoring either. Not his best night.

Eddie Jones played. That's about all I can say about that.

Damp played too. He pulled down 7 rebounds in his limited minutes. The game ended up going very small, and Damp was left on the bench. I didn't much like it, and with every offensive rebound the Celtics grabbed in the fourth quarter, I liked it less.

Really pleased with Brandon Bass tonight. I think you could make a good case that he was the second best Maverick in the second half tonight. He scored 10 points and actually helped take the Mavs to a lead. He grabbed 4 rebounds and blocked a couple of shots on switches too.

I was very happy with Trenton Hassell and Devean George too. Hassell continues to show that he deserves minutes on this team. After Ray Allen was smoking hot in the first quarter, Trenton Hassell came on to make him awfully quiet. And when Pierce was getting it going in the second half, Hassell quieted him down too. Devean George brought some energy and defense to the team as well. He worked hard as made an impact with his effort. On a night when the team was without Stack and Devin, and Eddie Jones wasn't getting it done, those guys were pretty responsible for helping the Mavs stay right in the game.

chumdawg · 01-31-2008, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddh33

With all of the Jason Kidd rumors flying around, let me point out a couple of things. First of all, with every passing possession Devin Harris became more and more valuable. The offense was atrocious without him.

And yet, this is a guy who is in his fourth year in the league and still is not trusted enough by his coach to call plays from the PG spot, and who couldn't even figure out his own defensive assignments in the playoffs last year.

I think some of you guys overrate Devin Harris. Watch a team that has a real floor leader, and notice the difference.

DavidDaMonkey · 01-31-2008, 11:11 PM

JJ not getting more minutes tonight was an absolute crime. It wasn't like Jet was doing anything to keep those minutes.

Bathouse Bear · 01-31-2008, 11:18 PM

Why does Josh always dissapear in the 2nd half of games.

Great game from Dirk tonight......the rest of the Mavs, not so much.

As soon as we went back tp trying to hit jumper we lost.

Say whatver you want about boston, but they continually attacked the rim. Something we just seem to not know how to do.

ddh33 · 01-31-2008, 11:19 PM

I don't recall Devin having problems with his assignments against Golden State. I remember a bigger, stronger guard beating him up at times, but Devin didn't even guard Baron as much as people remember...In fact, Devin was one of the few who played pretty well against Golden State.

And as for him not being allowed to call plays, you'll have to talk to his coach. Avery has never been wrong though so he must be right this time too.

vjz · 01-31-2008, 11:19 PM

Why were we going small in the 4th? Hated it, especially when we were getting absolutely killed on the offensive glass.

ddh33 · 01-31-2008, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bathouse Bear

Why does Josh always dissapear in the 2nd half of games.

Great game from Dirk tonight......the rest of the Mavs, not so much.

As soon as we went back tp trying to hit jumper we lost.

Say whatver you want about boston, but they continually attacked the rim. Something we just seem to not know how to do.

Exactly! So can we please not think about trading the one guy who will attack the basket!

kg_veteran · 01-31-2008, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

And yet, this is a guy who is in his fourth year in the league and still is not trusted enough by his coach to call plays from the PG spot, and who couldn't even figure out his own defensive assignments in the playoffs last year.

I think some of you guys overrate Devin Harris. Watch a team that has a real floor leader, and notice the difference.

Don't be a hater.

ShaggyDirk · 01-31-2008, 11:24 PM

blah blah blah \end knee jerk

Now, get rid of Jason Terry any way possible, please.

u2sarajevo · 01-31-2008, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

Don't be a hater.

It's what he's morphed into. He's following in madape's shadow.....

AxdemxO · 01-31-2008, 11:26 PM

Should have stayed big and playd Damp who was doing a good job....Avery did the same thing that he did against GS..another words he got outcoeached...this would have been another 15 or 20 point win for the Cs if Garnett was playing ..even with Harris

LonghornDub · 01-31-2008, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AxdemxO

Should have stayed big and playd Damp who was doing a good job....Avery did the same thing that he did against GS..another words he got outcoeached...this would have been another 15 or 20 point win for the Cs if Garnett was playing ..even with Harris

Yeah Damp really was dominating the glass early. I'm not sure what Avery was thinking.

Bathouse Bear · 01-31-2008, 11:32 PM

I have to agree. i dont mind going small at times.....but for Jesus Christ we are paying Dampier $70 million to be a freakin center. Lets play him.

We haven't been good at small ball since Don nelson was here.

chumdawg · 01-31-2008, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

Don't be a hater.

I'm not hating on Harris. In fact, I don't think I have ever said anything truly negative about Harris on this board--nor did I tonight. I like Harris, but I see him for what he is. He's a swingman in a point-guard's body. He really doesn't have many--actually, you might go so far as to say any--of the prime attributes that you would normally ascribe to a point guard. Yes, he can bring the ball up the floor. Yes, he can defend guys who are his own size. But if you were drafting a quarterback, would you draft him? He's not a quarterback.

That's why I think that the people who dismiss Harris-for-Kidd out of hand may be missing the boat. This team desperately needs a quarterback. And frankly, they have needed one for a few years now, and you can probably chalk up their lack of a title to this deficiency first and foremost.

ddh, as to last year's playoffs...I saw Harris blow the pick-and-roll defense on more than one occasion in clutch moments against Golden State. Hell, even Dirk barked at him about it. I'm just sayin'...if your scouting report is that you aren't a distributor at PG but you are a great defender, you ought to at least know where you are supposed to go on defense.

There is a reason Avery has had him on such a short leash all this time, and that only this year did he take the PG reins away from Jet on a full-time basis (geez, how hard is that to do?).

I see Harris as a terrific piece in a three-man backcourt rotation. I don't see him as the PG who is going to carry your team throughout the playoffs. Now, if you think that's hating, then I guess let me step out of your utopia.

Dim499 · 01-31-2008, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddh33

Josh Howard got off to a hot start offensively, like always, by scoring 13 in the first quarter. He finished with 19. Yuck. And he couldn't keep Pierce or Allen from scoring either. Not his best night.

If aliens came to visit earth and only watched the second half of every Mavs game they would say Josh Howard is one of the worst players of all time, up there with Chris Dudley and Loren Meyer. How can you trust this guy when you need a big basket down the strech? This is now 179 games in a row where he was better in the first half than the second. How can he go 1 for 5 in the 2nd again today (5 for 10 in the first) after these horrendous second half the last few games? With Antoine everyone talked about empty numbers, noone scores more empty points to make it 35-32 midway through the 2nd quarter than Josh Howard. His above average defense is appreciated though.

ShaggyDirk · 01-31-2008, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

I'm not hating on Harris. In fact, I don't think I have ever said anything truly negative about Harris on this board--nor did I tonight. I like Harris, but I see him for what he is. He's a swingman in a point-guard's body. He really doesn't have many--actually, you might go so far as to say any--of the prime attributes that you would normally ascribe to a point guard. Yes, he can bring the ball up the floor. Yes, he can defend guys who are his own size. But if you were drafting a quarterback, would you draft him? He's not a quarterback.

That's why I think that the people who dismiss Harris-for-Kidd out of hand may be missing the boat. This team desperately needs a quarterback. And frankly, they have needed one for a few years now, and you can probably chalk up their lack of a title to this deficiency first and foremost.

ddh, as to last year's playoffs...I saw Harris blow the pick-and-roll defense on more than one occasion in clutch moments against Golden State. Hell, even Dirk barked at him about it. I'm just sayin'...if your scouting report is that you aren't a distributor at PG but you are a great defender, you ought to at least know where you are supposed to go on defense.

There is a reason Avery has had him on such a short leash all this time, and that only this year did he take the PG reins away from Jet on a full-time basis (geez, how hard is that to do?).

I see Harris as a terrific piece in a three-man backcourt rotation. I don't see him as the PG who is going to carry your team throughout the playoffs. Now, if you think that's hating, then I guess let me step out of your utopia.

you are a posting contradiction time bomb. why are you wasting your time on this board? do you benefit from posting the garbage?

Popeye · 01-31-2008, 11:52 PM

1st quarter Josh = All NBA
1st half Josh = All Star
2nd half Josh = NBDL player

chumdawg · 01-31-2008, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaggyDirk

you are a posting contradiction time bomb. why are you wasting your time on this board? do you benefit from posting the garbage?

When I saw you had posted in this thread, I was expecting to hear how gloomy you are tonight. What happened to the perpetual gloominess? Did you finally get laid?

How is your cat?

Popeye · 02-01-2008, 12:06 AM

I'm wondering what people would say if Dirk had a string of games where he scores at will in the 1st quarter, but can't score to save his life in the 2nd half. I'm not saying we should hold Howard to the same standard as Dirk, but it would be nice if he could "occasionally" come through for us when it counts.

dude1394 · 02-01-2008, 12:15 AM

Yuck... We have JET running the point and we fall right back into a team that has the shot clock run down on us all day. Pound, pound, pound.

Eddie Jones/Juwan Howard are going to have to take a shot now and then. Eddie in particular is passing out wide open shots.

Good god...22!!!! 22!!!!! 22!!!!! stinking 3pta's. Good grief, who do we think we are Tornoto?
Josh and Jason both with 6!! Damn, ridiculous.. So few were even open, just tossed up there.

rabbitproof · 02-01-2008, 12:19 AM

I love me some Dirk and Dirk showed the S on his chest in the 3rd and 4th (save a couple plays). But this is why it's a team game. Against the elites, you're going to be trading body shots so you better have more than one combination.

Devin's got to play. JET's got to play better and Josh's got to play full games.

LSMF · 02-01-2008, 12:21 AM

Hey don't be sad look at the brighstide! We played the best team in the NBA with heart and that's all that matters to me. It was a moral victory if you ask me, we shot dismally, played without two key guys, terry wasted time on every possession, j-ho was nowhere to be found in the second half, we were playing small the ENTIRE 4th and we still only lost by a few points. I'll take the L and hopefully we can play better next time.

G-Man · 02-01-2008, 12:24 AM

Anyone notice how the announcers talked constantly about Garnett, but rarely mentioned Harris? I heard Stackhouse's name mentioned only once.

Personally, I think the Mavs missing those 2 equals Boston missing Garnett. So this game tells us nothing about which is the better team. Plus, to a large extent, the Mavs beat themselves with all those stupid jump shots.

Interesting that Chum chooses this game to go after Devin, when much of what we saw here was how much he was missed. He would have controlled Rondo, and made Boston pay for having no shotblocker. I share the frustration with the way Jet dribbles out most of t he shot clock...clearly, Devin runs the team better. His drives to the basket create points, fouls, free throws and wide open, in rhythm inside out 3 point shots...the kind that actually go in.

Without him, this may be a very long road trip. But its also meaningless, except for the impact on the standings.

Chum, you are flirting with my ignore list. Everything for you comes back to the lack of Nash, your ultimate quarterback. I think you just can't stand the fact that without him, or Nellie, the Mavs ended up with a better team. Better record. Better defense, NBA Finals appearance, all things we never got with Nash and Nellie. Your plea for Kidd is a thinly disguised whine over Nash. He's a great passer, but he costs 42 million dollars a year with tax, and he just ain't worth it. He's not even worth Devin. If Cuban wants to write the check, I'd love to have Kidd. But if he trades Devin for him, I'll seriously question his sanity.

chumdawg · 02-01-2008, 12:34 AM

That's pretty vitriolic, G-Man, when my only point was to say that Kidd would help this team right now more than Harris would--and if you can see the need for Harris then you should definitely appreciate what Kidd would bring.

Trust me, it's only because Kidd plays in the Eastern Conference and we don't get to watch him play at lot that people would ever even deign to think that Jason Kidd wouldn't help this team a great deal. We are talking about Jason freakin' Kidd, man!

And if you think that puts me out in left field or something, then do tell me why the Mavs are so interested in him? I mean, New Orleans isn't interested in him, right? Phoenix? Golden State? San Antonio? Why are the Mavs so interested in him?

Again, I'm not trying to diminish Devin Harris. But there is a reason the Mavs are interested. Quit painting me as a whiner and realize what is going on here. The Mavs are trying to upgrade their backcourt.

Tokey41 · 02-01-2008, 12:34 AM

You know Jet played bad when people wished that JJ 'airball' Barea would have got more minutes.... from what I saw the guy was downright horrible. Devin can't come back fast enough. And the airballs weren't even the worst part, the absolute disaster on defense was what had me cringing the most, he had no idea what was going on there.

But on Jet... I just don't understand why he did most of the things he did tonight (I guess the big one would be running down the clock on our offensive possessions). The team needs him to step up with Harris out, we've seen that he's more than capable of doing so... whats the problem?

chumdawg · 02-01-2008, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-Man

I share the frustration with the way Jet dribbles out most of t he shot clock...clearly, Devin runs the team better. His drives to the basket create points, fouls, free throws and wide open, in rhythm inside out 3 point shots...the kind that actually go in.

I might add here, since you talked about how much better the Mavs became without Nash, that they did it with Jason Terry at the point guard. You wanna consider correlation and causation? You're walking on a thin limb, given your assessment of Terry's play above (and what the rest of us have seen as well).

Locked_Up_Tonight · 02-01-2008, 12:41 AM

I know Jet's bread and butter is the outside shot. But if he is going to be the point guard he has to penetrate at least some to keep the defense honest.

Dirk should be criticized for not securing the rebound. Terry needs criticism for his shot selection.

But where in the hell is Josh Howard? He is pathetic in second halves. The Mavs need to keep Devin and trade Howard. Get a true second option for Dirk.

skylive321 · 02-01-2008, 12:44 AM

Three points:
1) George hits an open three, we are still in the game
2) The ref gets off his knees and stops blowing the game, by calling bull fouls like the one on Devean george supposedly against pierce, we're in the game
3) Dirk gets the rebound from Rajon rondo , we win that game.

rabbitproof · 02-01-2008, 12:45 AM

Lol @ for Dirk.

LonghornDub · 02-01-2008, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skylive321

Three points:
1) George hits an open three, we are still in the game
2) The ref gets off his knees and stops blowing the game, by calling bull fouls like the one on Devean george supposedly against pierce, we're in the game
3) Dirk gets the rebound from Rajon rondo , we win that game.

That call on the blocking foul on George was absolutely terrible. Not only was it far from a block, but the ref also waited until Pierce had missed the shot to blow the whistle.

SkullLeader · 02-01-2008, 12:50 AM

I'm beginning to think that the only thing Josh does is keep Dirk from getting 40 points a game. Seriously, if Dirk shot as much as Josh during the first half, he'd be averaging close to 40 each game. Ok fine, i'm not serious.

skylive321 · 02-01-2008, 12:54 AM

WHEN HE WAS'T BEING WALKED TO THE FREE THROW LINE BY THE REFS, PAUL PIERCE POSED HIS ZOOLANDER SHOT, CALLED THE HOPELESS LITTLE B-TCH..

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-01-2008, 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

And yet, this is a guy who is in his fourth year in the league and still is not trusted enough by his coach to call plays from the PG spot, and who couldn't even figure out his own defensive assignments in the playoffs last year.

I think some of you guys overrate Devin Harris. Watch a team that has a real floor leader, and notice the difference.

And is that the coach's or the player's fault?

Dim499 · 02-01-2008, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locked_Up_Tonight

Dirk should be criticized for not securing the rebound.

You're right and it's ironic because Dirk had a great rebounding night. He was grabbing some tough rebounds in traffic, mentally quick to the ball and one where I thought he had glue on his hands. And then he lets this one come down to his waist where Rondo could grab it.

G-Man · 02-01-2008, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

I might add here, since you talked about how much better the Mavs became without Nash, that they did it with Jason Terry at the point guard. You wanna consider correlation and causation? You're walking on a thin limb, given your assessment of Terry's play above (and what the rest of us have seen as well).

I'm not saying that Terry is a better point guard than Nash. Its amazing the Mavs got to the Finals with a PG as mediocre a QB as Jet, but they did, and so far Nash, with 2 more all-stars on his team, and Nellie II as his coach, has yet to get there. A big reason is that like Jet, Nash sucks on defense. But unlike Nellie, Avery makes everyone put out max defensive effort.

Devin, on the other hand, is an excellent defender, runs the team well, has developed his 3 point and mid range jumpers, and vastly improved his decision-making on his drives...finishing, passing and getting to the foul line. I' not saying Kidd wouldn't help the Mavs. I am saying at his age, with his skills and his price tag, I wouldn't trade him straight up for Kidd.

As for the Mavs interest in Kidd, I guarentee NJ would jump at any trade that included either Harris or Josh. The Mavs seem to only be offering role players. I'm guessing Cuban is looking at MIA and deciding he doesn't want to trade the future for a chance at 1 ring, and be stuck with an aging 40 million dollar man.

chumdawg · 02-01-2008, 01:36 AM

When I watch the games, I see Nash put out ten times more effort on defense than Terry does...but I guess that's just me.

My point remains. If Harris is the answer at PG, then the Mavs wouldn't be interested in Kidd at ALL. But evidently they are, and that speaks volumes.

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-01-2008, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

When I watch the games, I see Nash put out ten times more effort on defense than Terry does...but I guess that's just me.

My point remains. If Harris is the answer at PG, then the Mavs wouldn't be interested in Kidd at ALL. But evidently they are, and that speaks volumes.

Not from what Avery Johnson said today....and if they are, they aren't giving up Harris, book it.

ShaggyDirk · 02-01-2008, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

When I saw you had posted in this thread, I was expecting to hear how gloomy you are tonight. What happened to the perpetual gloominess? Did you finally get laid?

How is your cat?

Honestly, I agree with you this time. Harris, imo, will never lead us to a championship. Really though, that isn't the concern. It will all come down to Dirk. We go where Dirk takes us. That really isn't that complicated.

On the other hand, you need to do some soul searching into what exactly you believe and stick with it. I am afraid that is way to much to ask. ya think. And yes, the Mavs are doomed anyway.

AZmavs41Babe · 02-01-2008, 02:38 AM

im absolutly appuled. we should have won.

luckily i have the superbowl here at home to distract me.

cinemablend · 02-01-2008, 05:16 AM

I'm really getting frustrated with Josh. I hope I don't hear a lot of bitching about him not being on the all star ballot. A guy who only plays one quarter doesn't deserve all star consideration, I don't care what his stats look like.

This isn't a problem just in this game, this is a problem in about 70% of his games this year.

He's always been a fast starter, and better in the first than he is in the fourth, but this year he's taken it to a whole new level. It's terrible. Avery might as well just start benching the guy in the second half.

As for Jet... he's been getting worse every game since the start of the season. I agree with whoever said it above, I can't believe he has much trade value anymore, certainly not even half as much as he might have had at the end of last year.

The Mavs really needed Devin and Stack tonight.