19-8: Zebras beat the Mavs - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

dude1394 · 12-19-2009, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

I have some issues with some of the T's.. especially concerning Damp.. the breakaway call against Terry was bad. But, the Mavs deserved quite a bit of the T's that they got. What in the hell was Kidd thinking?

The T (and rejection) against damp stunned me it seemed so bad. In fact I thought damp got reamed all game long.

Jet deserved a flagrant imo but the refs were too stupid to make the right call even then.

The others looked about right, except for possibly Carlisles first one..that was one rookie reffing crew, they sucked.

mary · 12-19-2009, 01:14 AM

I'm not sure Andersen deserved to get the tech in the Kidd incident. I couldn't tell what was happening in the scuffle, but it was clearly initiated by Kidd. I think a double-tech is usually a cop out.

dude1394 · 12-19-2009, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

Let's not forget about the "clear path" foul either. Or Marion's "traveling" violation in overtime.

Marions travel was the right call. Jets' clear path was wrong, but it should have been called a flagrant instead. Refs stunk it up so bad that they couldn't even screw up correctly.

FINtastic · 12-19-2009, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mary

Hypothetical:

Which would you prefer?

Having your teeth knocked out, or getting teeth embedded into your elbow?

Were they able to get the teeth out of the elbow? If so, I'd go with that option. Neither sounds pleasant, but I don't like the thought of getting teeth knocked out at all.

mary · 12-19-2009, 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FINtastic

Were they able to get the teeth out of the elbow? If so, I'd go with that option. Neither sounds pleasant, but I don't like the thought of getting teeth knocked out at all.

Supposedly it took half-an-hour to get the wound cleaned of toothy debris.

Getting your teeth knocked out is probably more painful, but basketball wise it may be the better option.

darkwitzki · 12-19-2009, 01:38 AM

I think Landry prefer losing to the Mavs than losing his teeth.

mac222b · 12-19-2009, 01:42 AM

refs SUCKED. how about them bailing out an out of control Kyle Lowry in OT, they called a foul on Marion. Lowry made 2fts.
btw what was up with Carlisle putting Humphries in to shoot the 2 fts?! and then trying to sub TT in immediately after? JJ was available to shoot them. as was TT for that matter,who had just drained a huge 3. strange game

foglemann · 12-19-2009, 01:49 AM

Damps 2nd T was a joke, the elbow never came over his shoulder, which is typically the rule for that kind of action.

And kidds T was not his fault. Anderson comes down to set the down screen and Kidd braces. Anderson hits him and flys back like he's been shot. He comes back at kidd after the whistle, Kidd steps up, nothing happens, then Tim Thomas comes in a pushes everyone back, causing it to look like a fight. If they want to call a t on tim, fine, but Kidd/Anderson thing wasn't out of hand until Tim jumps in.

Why does Terry have terrible bball IQ, Bobby carpenter like time waste, and the smallest hands in the NBA. I'm shocked that Roddy or hump couldn't give us some burn, hou went on multiple runs. Crappy game.

mary · 12-19-2009, 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

refs SUCKED. how about them bailing out an out of control Kyle Lowry in OT, they called a foul on Marion. Lowry made 2fts.
btw what was up with Carlisle putting Humphries in to shoot the 2 fts?! and then trying to sub TT in immediately after? JJ was available to shoot them. as was TT for that matter,who had just drained a huge 3. strange game

When a player is DQ'd (or can't return to the game) and is supposed to shoot FT's, your opponent gets to pick the free throw shooter.

CadBane · 12-19-2009, 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

refs SUCKED. how about them bailing out an out of control Kyle Lowry in OT, they called a foul on Marion. Lowry made 2fts.
btw what was up with Carlisle putting Humphries in to shoot the 2 fts?! and then trying to sub TT in immediately after? JJ was available to shoot them. as was TT for that matter,who had just drained a huge 3. strange game

The opposing coach chooses the player to shoot ft's in that situation, thus Hump was chosen by Adelman.

fluid.forty.one · 12-19-2009, 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

refs SUCKED. how about them bailing out an out of control Kyle Lowry in OT, they called a foul on Marion. Lowry made 2fts.
btw what was up with Carlisle putting Humphries in to shoot the 2 fts?! and then trying to sub TT in immediately after? JJ was available to shoot them. as was TT for that matter,who had just drained a huge 3. strange game

Umm.. the Rockets got to choose who shot the FTs, not Carlisle.

CadBane · 12-19-2009, 01:52 AM

Threesies.

mary · 12-19-2009, 01:56 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3bX3Wbgcz4

Kidd and Anderson.

Sorry, IMO, Kidd is not bracing at all, he's clearly moving forward with his forearm stuck out.

mary · 12-19-2009, 02:11 AM

Ouch.

FINtastic · 12-19-2009, 02:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mary

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3bX3Wbgcz4

Kidd and Anderson.

Sorry, IMO, Kidd is not bracing at all, he's clearly moving forward with his forearm stuck out.

Yeah, I don't see how to spin that one positively for Kidd.

twelli · 12-19-2009, 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FINtastic

Yeah, I don't see how to spin that one positively for Kidd.

Looks like a retaliation move of sorts. There probably was something before that. But anyway, for a veteran like Kidd that is not excusable.

mac222b · 12-19-2009, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mary

When a player is DQ'd (or can't return to the game) and is supposed to shoot FT's, your opponent gets to pick the free throw shooter.

thanks for the clarification. didn't know it applied to DQ's too. makes sense so that a player can't feign injury to allow a better shooter to enter. but to be thrown out it seems as if you'd have to do something which would incur a technical thus penalizing your team already.

LonghornDub · 12-19-2009, 03:23 AM

What's f'ed up is that in college basketball, when a player is injured before FT's, not only does his own team (rather than the other team) get to pick who shoots the FT's, but the guy can still come back later in the game.

dmack24 · 12-19-2009, 04:44 AM

I really like what Jet did for us in past years, but he clearly is not the same player he use to be, I know that people claim Barea to be a liability on defense, but from watching the game Lowrey and Brooks got most of their points when Jet was guarding them. Every time Barea was in the game, we were turning the corner. I really feel that Barea is the scoring threat now and not Jet, and yet Jet gets more minutes. I say we trade Jet for a halfway decent Center, I really would love Chris Kamen. Let Beaubois take Jets minutes and continue with Josh off the bench with Barea at SG. I know Barea is not a SG, but in all honesty neither is Jet or Roddy. Barea's quickness at SG is what helps create his offense. I agree with Derrick Harper, it was a mistake to not play Barea in the 4th and overtime periods. Jet Could not hit a shot if his life depended on it. This is two nights running.

cinemablend · 12-19-2009, 04:55 AM

I can't remember the last time I saw a game this badly reffed. Just... unbelievable. What's really unbelievable is that even after they'd watch replays (sometimes even replays which they weren't supposed to use)... which very clearly showed the right call... they still made the wrong one.

The flagrant on Damp was ridiculous. He barely moved his arm and half the reason he moved it at all was because Brook was pulling it towards him as he fell. Damp clearly didn't even know what was going on or who was behind him or where they were... he couldn't since he doesn't have eyes in the back of his head.

Jet's clear path foul was just... beyond stupid. How can he commit a clear path foul when he is CLEARLY the first person over the half-court line? It wasn't even close. Worse he was between the player and the basket the whole time. Even if the Ref didn't see who crossed the line first you could see that he was in front of the guy every second. Makes no sense.

The technical on Kidd I still don't get. The replay showed him doing nothing. He just stood there, he didn't even say anything after the collision. Unless the technical was for the collision? But it seemed like it was called afterward. Tim Thomas rushed in and made it look like something but it wasn't.

The Marion traveling call... I'm still not sure. Didn't look like a travel to me but at least you could sort of see how a ref might screw that up. But combined with all the other crap that went down tonight, just awful.

I'm not normally one to complain about refs, but the loss tonight was not the team's fault. The officiating crew was determined to make sure the Mavs loss... whether because they were incompetent or malicious I don't know.

The worst thing about all of these calls is that they weren't split second decisions which were wrong, or stuff made on the fly or things the refs just didn't see right. In almost every case, the refs stopped the game, sat there in a huddle and then methodically decided to misapply the rules after watching replays which showed them the opposite of what they decided. I can't remember ever seeing anything quite like it before.

And what was with that last huddle of theirs, where the Refs had themselves surrounded by security to... what... protect themselves from the players? Something seriously weird was going on tonight.

dmack24 · 12-19-2009, 05:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cinemablend

I can't remember the last time I saw a game this badly reffed. Just... unbelievable. What's really unbelievable is that even after they'd watch replays (sometimes even replays which they weren't supposed to use)... which very clearly showed the right call... they still made the wrong one.

The flagrant on Damp was ridiculous. He barely moved his arm and half the reason he moved it at all was because Brook was pulling it towards him as he fell. Damp clearly didn't even know what was going on or who was behind him or where they were... he couldn't since he doesn't have eyes in the back of his head.

Jet's clear path foul was just... beyond stupid. How can he commit a clear path foul when he is CLEARLY the first person over the half-court line? It wasn't even close. Worse he was between the player and the basket the whole time. Even if the Ref didn't see who crossed the line first you could see that he was in front of the guy every second. Makes no sense.

The technical on Kidd I still don't get. The replay showed him doing nothing. He just stood there, he didn't even say anything after the collision. Unless the technical was for the collision? But it seemed like it was called afterward. Tim Thomas rushed in and made it look like something but it wasn't.

The Marion traveling call... I'm still not sure. Didn't look like a travel to me but at least you could sort of see how a ref might screw that up. But combined with all the other crap that went down tonight, just awful.

I'm not normally one to complain about refs, but the loss tonight was not the team's fault. The officiating crew was determined to make sure the Mavs loss... whether because they were incompetent or malicious I don't know.

The worst thing about all of these calls is that they weren't split second decisions which were wrong, or stuff made on the fly or things the refs just didn't see right. In almost every case, the refs stopped the game, sat there in a huddle and then methodically decided to misapply the rules after watching replays which showed them the opposite of what they decided. I can't remember ever seeing anything quite like it before.

And what was with that last huddle of theirs, where the Refs had themselves surrounded by security to... what... protect themselves from the players? Something seriously weird was going on tonight.

Carlisle made some bad personnel decisions, like Jet over Barea. He did it for defensive purposes! If that was Carlisles excuse then how come Brooks and Lowrey kept scoring on the jet at will? Great Idea Rick, sit our most effective scorer on the bench, I thought you would have learned to keep Barea in the game, instead of repeating what happened two games ago. I wish we would trade jet, so we alleviate any itch rick has to bench jj when he is going for a career night. The sooner we trade jet the better we shall be. He cannot defend, and he certainly cannot shoot anymore. He is the new Jerry Stackhouse of this organization. It is time to get rid of this chump for a decent post player and give Roddy some minutes, but the majority going to Barea. I cannot see why this guy cant put up 30 by the end of the season if given extended play.

dmack24 · 12-19-2009, 05:22 AM

[QUOTE=dmack24;1051557]Carlisle made some bad personnel decisions that cost us the game, like Jet over Barea in the 4th and OT. He did it for defensive purposes! If that was Carlisles excuse then how come Brooks and Lowrey kept scoring on the jet at will? Great Idea Rick, sit our most effective scorer on the bench, I thought you would have learned to keep Barea in the game, instead of repeating what happened two games ago. I wish we would trade jet, so we alleviate any itch rick has to bench jj when he is going for a career night. The sooner we trade jet the better we shall be. He cannot defend, and he certainly cannot shoot anymore. He is the new Jerry Stackhouse of this organization. It is time to get rid of this chump for a decent post player and give Roddy some minutes, but the majority going to Barea. I cannot see why this guy cant put up 30 by the end of the season if given extended play.

rebbit · 12-19-2009, 05:32 AM

There were alot of bad ref calls in this game but the Kidd T wasnt one of them. He clearly pulled a derek fisher there...

Lor20 · 12-19-2009, 06:58 AM

cant say i care about this loss.
I just hope dirk is okay again soon and this is one to forget.... weird game

skakavac · 12-19-2009, 08:00 AM

kidd's T ok, but what the hell did rick to earn his first one..

Usually Lurkin · 12-19-2009, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mary

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3bX3Wbgcz4

Kidd and Anderson.

Sorry, IMO, Kidd is not bracing at all, he's clearly moving forward with his forearm stuck out.

they both definitely went after each other after the foul call, as well. TT and Scola both reacted pretty quickly. They were blocking the view, though.

What these videos prove beyond a doubt is that the Rockets announcers suck. "No Rockets players are off the bench. Kris Humphries is off the bench. . . "

FreshJive · 12-19-2009, 10:18 AM

I had to watch this game in Houston last night. The announcers were unbearable. And I'm not sure what replay they showed for the Marion travel on the Mavs broadcast, but he clearly lifted his pivot foot to start the drive. Refs have been pretty consistent about calling that one this season. Unlike here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4D9Z1wAwQtM

dude1394 · 12-19-2009, 10:20 AM

Yea...that was a good call on marion, no one should be bitching about that one. The one that continues to stagger me is the ejection of dampier. I looked close on that one and couldn't see anything. In fact most of the fouls called on dampier all game were stunning...as in I watched the replay closely and saw nothing.

Usually Lurkin · 12-19-2009, 10:23 AM

Is Damp's tech up on youtube somewhere?

dude1394 · 12-19-2009, 10:29 AM

I haven't found one. This is kind of interesting however..
http://dpagesports.blogspot.com/2009...sure-then.html

Quote:

The Unbelievable Dampier Ejection

For some reason Followill, Ortegal, and the rest of the crew on 21 didn't notice what I'm sure many of you at home noticed on the flagrant foul assessed to Aaron Brooks. While Bob Ortegal clamored on about Brooks not going for the ball and grabbing Dampier's shoulders, the replay on the monitor validated Ortegal's call except for one very important part. Brooks did grab Dampier's shoulders and did not go for the ball, but in grabbing his shoulders he also vaulted himself and his knee between Dampier's legs. Now as any man (or woman for that matter) knows, if someone knees you in the groin area, your going to respond with some hostility. That is what Damp did, throwing a shoulder into Brooks and yelling some expletives in the officials' direction. Then, for some reason, he was ejected from the game for reacting harshly to getting kneed in the balls. Nowitzki has to remove teeth from his elbow and Dampier gets ejected for getting kicked in the nuts, a strange night indeed.

jthig32 · 12-19-2009, 10:44 AM

Just a horribly reffed game. But it was on both sides. Can't blame the refs for this loss. Anderson did absolutely nothing to deserve his part of the double technical, and I honestly thought Kidd should have gotten thrown out. How is leaving your feet to launch a shoulder into someone's chest any different than throwing a punch? It was a sorry move. Kidd either lost his mind or it was retaliation of some sort. But even if it was retaliation, Anderson did nothing in that moment to deserve a tech.

Damp did even less to deserve a tech, but the game was over at that point anyway.

The absolutely ridiculous clear path call was bad, but Jet could have avoided that by not simply handing the ball to Lowry right before that.

This game was just bizarre. On one hand I was really impressed with the grit during certain points of the game. JJB, Marion, Damp and Kidd really worked hard to pick up the slack left by Dirk's absence. Josh played pretty well too, considering how rusty he still looks at times.

But they couldn't overcome the awful, awful play of Jet, Gooden and to a lesser extent Tim Thomas. People will remember Tim Thomas hitting a couple big shots, but he missed a ton of shots earlier in the game, and he played twelve minutes at power forward without picking up a single rebound.

I'm done with Drew Gooden. He is awful. The Mavs couldn't even hope to keep any momentum going when Damp was on the bench. And once again, this is a team that plays midgets in the front court. This is EXACTLY the kind of game that Gooden was supposed to help us in. Instead he completely sabotages us. It's incredibly frustrating.

But I reserve my highest frustration for Jason Terry, who would have helped the Mavs more tonight by never getting off the bus. He got absolutely lit up by anyone he guarded, and did so, so little to help this team offensively. It's so discouraging to realize that your second best scorer is so incredibly reliant on your primary scorer in order to be effective.

What an incredibly frustrating game.

Murphy3 · 12-19-2009, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foglemann

Damps 2nd T was a joke, the elbow never came over his shoulder, which is typically the rule for that kind of action.

And kidds T was not his fault. Anderson comes down to set the down screen and Kidd braces. Anderson hits him and flys back like he's been shot. He comes back at kidd after the whistle, Kidd steps up, nothing happens, then Tim Thomas comes in a pushes everyone back, causing it to look like a fight. If they want to call a t on tim, fine, but Kidd/Anderson thing wasn't out of hand until Tim jumps in.

Why does Terry have terrible bball IQ, Bobby carpenter like time waste, and the smallest hands in the NBA. I'm shocked that Roddy or hump couldn't give us some burn, hou went on multiple runs. Crappy game.

Good God, Kidd violently ran into Anderson with clear inent... Anderson was doing nothing but setting a screen.

Murphy3 · 12-19-2009, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Just a horribly reffed game. But it was on both sides. Can't blame the refs for this loss. Anderson did absolutely nothing to deserve his part of the double technical, and I honestly thought Kidd should have gotten thrown out. How is leaving your feet to launch a shoulder into someone's chest any different than throwing a punch? It was a sorry move. Kidd either lost his mind or it was retaliation of some sort. But even if it was retaliation, Anderson did nothing in that moment to deserve a tech.

Damp did even less to deserve a tech, but the game was over at that point anyway.

The absolutely ridiculous clear path call was bad, but Jet could have avoided that by not simply handing the ball to Lowry right before that.

This game was just bizarre. On one hand I was really impressed with the grit during certain points of the game. JJB, Marion, Damp and Kidd really worked hard to pick up the slack left by Dirk's absence. Josh played pretty well too, considering how rusty he still looks at times.

But they couldn't overcome the awful, awful play of Jet, Gooden and to a lesser extent Tim Thomas. People will remember Tim Thomas hitting a couple big shots, but he missed a ton of shots earlier in the game, and he played twelve minutes at power forward without picking up a single rebound.

I'm done with Drew Gooden. He is awful. The Mavs couldn't even hope to keep any momentum going when Damp was on the bench. And once again, this is a team that plays midgets in the front court. This is EXACTLY the kind of game that Gooden was supposed to help us in. Instead he completely sabotages us. It's incredibly frustrating.

But I reserve my highest frustration for Jason Terry, who would have helped the Mavs more tonight by never getting off the bus. He got absolutely lit up by anyone he guarded, and did so, so little to help this team offensively. It's so discouraging to realize that your second best scorer is so incredibly reliant on your primary scorer in order to be effective.

What an incredibly frustrating game.

So what would you like the Mavs to do at the backup Center spot?

Also, it'll be interesting to see what happens with JET if he continues his poor season. The Mavs actually have options at both guard positions that could leave him with less and less playing time. Obviously, they could use his shooting ability.. but they could also use a player on the court that brings something a little more consistently than JET even if the upside isn't quite as high.

jthig32 · 12-19-2009, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

So what would you like the Mavs to do at the backup Center spot?

Also, it'll be interesting to see what happens with JET if he continues his poor season. The Mavs actually have options at both guard positions that could leave him with less and less playing time. Obviously, they could use his shooting ability.. but they could also use a player on the court that brings something a little more consistently than JET even if the upside isn't quite as high.

I would like another true center that can guard the rim. Ironically, the Mavs acquired Gooden right when their need for an athletic, scoring center become much smaller. The flexibility of Marion gives the Mavs so many options that I think Gooden as a mobile center is largely useless at this point. I'd rather see the small lineup have Dirk, Marion and Josh in the front court than Gooden. And even in scenarios where that lineup won't quite work, I'm perfectly fine with Humphries or even Singleton getting some run in a pinch.

Can someone go find the Diop from 2006? That's what this team needs at backup center. Or in a fantasy world, Camby would be incredible.

Murphy3 · 12-19-2009, 11:20 AM

Obviously, the Mavs can go with a lineup featuring Dirk as the center with Marion as the second biggest player on the court. But, I was curious as to whether or not you were ready to give Humphries more playing time over Gooden. And, apparently you are.

tgfan · 12-19-2009, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

Let's not forget about the "clear path" foul either. Or Marion's "traveling" violation in overtime.

Yeah, that Marion travel was nothing compared to what goes on rampantly in every NBA game. I'm not even sure it was a travel at all.

jthig32 · 12-19-2009, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Obviously, the Mavs can go with a lineup featuring Dirk as the center with Marion as the second biggest player on the court. But, I was curious as to whether or not you were ready to give Humphries more playing time over Gooden. And, apparently you are.

Well when they're on the same roster I think it's a bit of a toss up. When Gooden is playing this poorly I think it'd be prudent to throw Hump out there and see if he can give you anything better.

What I am ready to do is move Gooden in a trade that brings something useful back, because I don't think he's a clear upgrade over Hump or Singleton on a regular basis (and for a lot of this year he hasn't been a clear upgrade over a chair).

dude1394 · 12-19-2009, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

So what would you like the Mavs to do at the backup Center spot?

Also, it'll be interesting to see what happens with JET if he continues his poor season. The Mavs actually have options at both guard positions that could leave him with less and less playing time. Obviously, they could use his shooting ability.. but they could also use a player on the court that brings something a little more consistently than JET even if the upside isn't quite as high.

I agree, interesting. Jet is currently right now the most one-dimensional player we have on the team. He shoots well (well sometimes) but doesn't understand how to score when he's not shooting great, doesn't handle the ball that well, has played better defense but still pretty much stinks it up and goes braindead at some of the worst times.

He also IMO screws up what the mavs want to do at the end of games. I believe the best lineup is damp(center), dirk, shawn, josh(probably better player), jkiddo. But they cannot play that because of jet/dirks pnr capabilities. So they put someone on the bench and pick up crappy defense in the bargain. Probably josh/jet need to go for a stud.

dude1394 · 12-19-2009, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tgfan

Yeah, that Marion travel was nothing compared to what goes on rampantly in every NBA game. I'm not even sure it was a travel at all.

It WAS a travel. it was the correct call.

dude1394 · 12-19-2009, 12:47 PM

I'd honestly like to see hump/thomas get the minutes right now. You know hump came in and the first damn thing he did was jack up an 18footer. Dude...figure it out.