The Rick Carlisle COY Thread

[Thespiralgoeson]

It's been talked about in just about every GDT recently, but I figure this deserves its own separate thread.

It's easy to take Carlisle for granted because A: he's been with us for so long, and B: it's been a really long time since the Mavs were actually noteworthy. And it's easy to only see the negatives when you watch every game and you can't help but think that Boban would be better here, or JJB would be better there, or why did RC keep THJ in for so long, or why did he leave KP on the bench for so long etc...

I think everyone here has been frustrated with Carlisle at times this season. I know I have. But the Mavs have been playing so well for so long now, that it's high time all of us gave the man his due. Rick motherf*ckin' Carlisle is coaching the ever-loving sh*t outta the Dallas Mavericks.

Whatever doubts anyone might have had about RC still being an elite coach should have gone out the window these past few games without Luka. On paper, these Mavs had no business being competitive in any of these games, and yet they've won 2 of them, and been in position to win all four.

It's not just these games without Luka either. The supporting cast has been playing well for weeks now. RC has crafted a system that maximizes everyone's specific strengths. They're not the most talented supporting cast, but Carlisle has them performing as one of the best supporting casts in the league.

Unfortunately I don't think he well get much consideration for COY this year. People do just sort of forget about him because he's been around so long, and I think most people will just attribute the Mavs' unexpected success this year to Luka's transcendent greatness (which is understandable.) But us Mavs fans at least should recognize great coaching when we see it. Rick Carlisle is still the f*ckin' man.

[Lestat_1795]

Well said.

[endtroducing MASKED]

If they get close to 60, he’s got a chance. If they win 60 somehow it’s his to lose

[tap2390]

Originally Posted by endtroducing MASKED

If they get close to 60, he’s got a chance. If they win 60 somehow it’s his to lose

He should 100% get it if we are at 50 wins or higher. No one expected that from us.

[Underdog]

We've been in every game this season except for the 15-point loss to the Clips -- every blowout (20+ points) has been a win... Rick is doing something right with this team, because we're not THAT talented beyond Luka and KP.

[endtroducing MASKED]

Originally Posted by tap2390

He should 100% get it if we are at 50 wins or higher. No one expected that from us.

I agree. I would say 52+ wins should guarantee it. I guess let’s see how the narrative of the rest of the year will go

[Dallas41]

I think based on circumstances and expectations in OKC Billy Donavan has done an amazing job and if that team makes the playoff he has to be in the discussion.

[Lestat_1795]

We are on a 55 win pace right now.
Should be enough wins for a lot of awards.
RC would be very deserving.
He can finally show off after years of terrible rosters to work with.

[Dallas41]

Seems like Rick has dropped the ball vs Milwaukee as no Toronto recently

Truth be told the mavs were reallly luckily to have not blown that big deal vs the bucks

I'm not sure if it matters to others but I'm not confident with this team even if they have a big lead.


I think what witnessed tonight was a carry from the bucks game

This team lacks composure and if you get them in a close game

Being able to execute vs a full court press is about coaching and preparation

[SMC0007]

COY? Lols /End thread.

[Bryan_Wilson]

The Bucks and the Raptors are 1st and 3rd in defensive rating. I'm more concerned with how they don't play well with aggressive physical teams than I am with how they play with a lead. And Delon Wright was brought here to defend pg's and he was so bad they had DFS on Lowry in the 4th, who also couldn't guard him. Edit- Against his former team you would like to see more fire...

[Thespiralgoeson]

I don't see how you can blame Rick for what happened today. That to me looked like youth and inexperience of the players more than anything. It's not his fault that Brunsen turned into a dear in the headlights against a full court press, or that Curry and THJ couldn't hit a shot to save their lives. Or that the refs decided to go full 2006 finals mode against us.

My expectations for the team my have been tempered somewhat, but it doesn't change my opinion about Rick being a strong COY candidate.

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

I don't see how you can blame Rick for what happened today. That to me looked like youth and inexperience of the players more than anything. It's not his fault that Brunsen turned into a dear in the headlights against a full court press, or that Curry and THJ couldn't hit a shot to save their lives. Or that the refs decided to go full 2006 finals mode against us.

My expectations for the team my have been tempered somewhat, but it doesn't change my opinion about Rick being a strong COY candidate.

Didn't the same thing happen vs Milwaukee?

You would think that was a good learning experience but nope 2 games later the exact same thing happens only this time the mavs weren't lucky enough to escape their own collapse

I still debate that billy Donavan has done a better job

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

Didn't the same thing happen vs Milwaukee?

You would think that was a good learning experience but nope 2 games later the exact same thing happens only this time the mavs weren't lucky enough to escape their own collapse

I still debate that billy Donavan has done a better job

What happened in Milwaukee was the best player on the f*cking planet made swiss cheese out of our defense. What exactly was Carlisle supposed to do?

[Thespiralgoeson]

And btw, we won that game, in case anyone forgot.

[Underdog]

Rick should have played Luka more...

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

I don't see how you can blame Rick for what happened today. That to me looked like youth and inexperience of the players more than anything. It's not his fault that Brunsen turned into a dear in the headlights against a full court press, or that Curry and THJ couldn't hit a shot to save their lives. Or that the refs decided to go full 2006 finals mode against us.

My expectations for the team my have been tempered somewhat, but it doesn't change my opinion about Rick being a strong COY candidate.

I dont often disagree with you but Rick shares blame with the players on today's game. He stood and watched the steaming pile of shit coming out on the court as they tried to milk the clock with over 9 minutes left in the game. He played into Nurses midgetball gameplan instead of putting KP and Maxi in.

That said. He can tighten those few issues up going forward and control what he can and get in the conversation of coy later. We can talk all we want about coach of the year but Rick doesn't give two dog fks about it. Just fix the damn issues that he has had which granted arent that many and get to the playoffs. The rest will work itself out.

[FreshJive]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

He played into Nurses midgetball gameplan instead of putting KP and Maxi in.

KP played a team high 36 minutes, and the last 8 minutes of the game.

I'm not sure why he couldn't figure out that Maxi was the key to beating a full court press that they were struggling with.

[Thespiralgoeson]

KP should have come back in the game sooner. No question about that. This is a common frustration I share throughout the season. Still, today's blown lead notwithstanding, this team of arguably subpar talent has been playing incredibly well together, both with and without our superstar. Yeah they blew a massive lead and choked a random road game in Toronto. They also beat the best team in the league on the road with best player in the world going off for 48. And they flat out punked the Sixers on their homecourt. And they were competitive against Miami and Boston. So 2-2 on this brutal road trip against the elite teams of the East says more in Carlisle's favor than a blown 30 point lead without Luka says against him IMO. They probably should be 0-4, but they have been overachieving. That's why I feel like today's game was what you call a market correction. It's a dose of reality that reminds us that the team outside of Luka still isn't that good.

[FreshJive]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

KP should have come back in the game sooner. No question about that.

ant fucking nonsense

[Underdog]

Fire Jason Garrett.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by FreshJive

KP played a team high 36 minutes, and the last 8 minutes of the game.

I'm not sure why he couldn't figure out that Maxi was the key to beating a full court press that they were struggling with.

True, the press was obviously an issue, but they beat the press numerous times but then stood holding the ball milking the clock and trying to set up a half court offense. There was far too much time to hold the ball up like that. I could have separated the issues more but I didnt mean it was ALL because Maxi and KP werent in together.

Getting KP back in for 8 mins is better than 4 mins but the lead shrank to 10pts before he decided to bring our best player back in. Not to mention that JJ who is very experienced just sat there and the only time he remotely made an appearance was when he got off the bench to go give Rick his thoughts on the sideline.

You gotta do what it takes to win very winnable games from incredibly winnable positions, even if it means KP plays higher minutes and you have to use JJ...assuming he was healthy. I didnt say it's all on Coach.

[KillerLeft]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Rick should have played Luka more...

10/10

[Jack.Kerr]

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

I can't imagine a scenario where someone would unironically miss Barnes. Let's get Parsons back while we're at it.

I can't imagine a scenario where someone would unironically nominate RC for COY based on this year's work. Let's get Avery (or Adubato, or Buckner, or Cleamons) back while we're at it.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by Jack.Kerr

I can't imagine a scenario where someone would unironically nominate RC for COY based on this year's work. Let's get Avery (or Adubato, or Buckner, or Cleamons) back while we're at it.

The Mavs are on pace to win roughly 55 games in a season where they were initially expected to be barely over .500 and struggle for the 8th seed. What exactly are you whining about?

[KillerLeft]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

The Mavs are on pace to win roughly 55 games in a season where they were initially expected to be barely over .500 and struggle for the 8th seed. What exactly are you whining about?

For sure. He will definitely be in the conversation for the award if this pace continues. MOST national people did not list Dallas among their playoff teams in the West before the season. If they win 50+ and stay in the top 5, Carlisle will absolutely get some credit for that.

[KillerLeft]

What it seems like a lot of people miss during conversations like these is that these things don’t happen in a vacuum. Different circumstances breed different results, and at times even a genius coach can look stupid when they try something new, or when a key part of the roster plan does not pan out.

For example, Gregg Popovich might be my pick for the worst coach in the NBA right now, because even though we all know him to be a great leader, he has literally run his franchise into the ground by refusing to get on board with the way the game is played nowadays. His system is outdated, and he refuses to admit that relying on the mid-range game is GUARANTEED to be a losing approach now.

Does saying that mean that I don’t respect all of the things that Popovich has done in the past? No, of course not. But, he is hurting his team right now.

You know how we know Carlisle is NOT hurting his team right now? Because they are the best offensive team in the league, playing much, much better defense than any of us thought they could, and winning way, way more games than anyone could have reasonably expected. Obviously, this doesn’t mean he’s perfect, but you cannot say he isn’t doing a hell of a job this season.

[MFFL]

Carlisle deserves COY just for yesterday's rant

“The post-up just isn’t a good play anymore. It just isn’t a good play. It’s not a good play for a 7-3 guy. It’s a low-value situation. Our numbers are very substantial that when he spaces beyond the 3-point line, you know, we’re a historically good offensive team. And when any of our guys go in there, our effectiveness is diminished exponentially. It’s counterintuitive, I understand that, but it’s a fact. I think there’s certain situations where it makes sense. If we can get him on a roll in the paint towards the rim, that’s a good situation. And that’s what we’ll try to do with all our guys.

“We don’t post anybody up. We post Luka up every once in a while when he has a real small guy on him. But even those situations, the value of those situations has plummeted. We’ve got to realize that this game has changed. It’s changed. It’s just a fact. And he’s a guy when he spaces beyond the arc, above the break, is a historically great all-time 3-point shooter with unbelievable efficiency. And the thing I like about his game now is his reads have gotten better. His spacing is such that when people run at him, he’s now driving the ball directly for dunks. He’s throwing some really cool lob passes to (Dwight) Powell. I mean, you’ve got a 7-3 guy throwing to a 6-10 guy on a lob? That’s pretty fucking cool if you ask me.

“Let’s get off of all this stuff that KP needs to go in the post. He doesn’t. He doesn’t. I’m OK with him going in there once in a while, but we don’t post anybody. It’s nothing personal against him. Look, he’s used to doing it because they ran the triangle for two or three years when he was (with the Knicks). Who’s running the triangle now? Has anyone seen anyone running the triangle offense? The triple post? If you do, raise your hand, because I wanna see who you are. Because I haven’t seen it. Because that offense is extinct. Look, it went extinct when Phil Jackson retired. He’s the only one who ever had any success with it. He’s a genius and a master of it, but look, we’ve got to get off of this thing. We’ve got to treat KP with some respect. And respect him for what he is. He’s a historically great player. And quit criticizing him because he’s 7-3. That’s what everybody’s doing. I don’t care who it is. I don’t care if it’s people on TV or anything else.”

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by MFFL

Carlisle deserves COY just for yesterday's rant

“The post-up just isn’t a good play anymore. It just isn’t a good play. It’s not a good play for a 7-3 guy. It’s a low-value situation. Our numbers are very substantial that when he spaces beyond the 3-point line, you know, we’re a historically good offensive team. And when any of our guys go in there, our effectiveness is diminished exponentially. It’s counterintuitive, I understand that, but it’s a fact. I think there’s certain situations where it makes sense. If we can get him on a roll in the paint towards the rim, that’s a good situation. And that’s what we’ll try to do with all our guys.

“We don’t post anybody up. We post Luka up every once in a while when he has a real small guy on him. But even those situations, the value of those situations has plummeted. We’ve got to realize that this game has changed. It’s changed. It’s just a fact. And he’s a guy when he spaces beyond the arc, above the break, is a historically great all-time 3-point shooter with unbelievable efficiency. And the thing I like about his game now is his reads have gotten better. His spacing is such that when people run at him, he’s now driving the ball directly for dunks. He’s throwing some really cool lob passes to (Dwight) Powell. I mean, you’ve got a 7-3 guy throwing to a 6-10 guy on a lob? That’s pretty fucking cool if you ask me.

“Let’s get off of all this stuff that KP needs to go in the post. He doesn’t. He doesn’t. I’m OK with him going in there once in a while, but we don’t post anybody. It’s nothing personal against him. Look, he’s used to doing it because they ran the triangle for two or three years when he was (with the Knicks). Who’s running the triangle now? Has anyone seen anyone running the triangle offense? The triple post? If you do, raise your hand, because I wanna see who you are. Because I haven’t seen it. Because that offense is extinct. Look, it went extinct when Phil Jackson retired. He’s the only one who ever had any success with it. He’s a genius and a master of it, but look, we’ve got to get off of this thing. We’ve got to treat KP with some respect. And respect him for what he is. He’s a historically great player. And quit criticizing him because he’s 7-3. That’s what everybody’s doing. I don’t care who it is. I don’t care if it’s people on TV or anything else.”

The rant was really good. It's why I appreciate him so much even when I don't fully agree with his method. It was very POP like. He doesnt suffer fools and occasionally you get a glimpse inside the machine. I dont agree with with all of his approach but I certainly enjoyed his take and the idea that he listens to other NBA talking heads (and maybe some fans?)

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by KillerLeft

For sure. He will definitely be in the conversation for the award if this pace continues. MOST national people did not list Dallas among their playoff teams in the West before the season. If they win 50+ and stay in the top 5, Carlisle will absolutely get some credit for that.

Blazers are at a .438 percentage and that is good enough for 8th in the West.
All we need is to go 16-36 the rest of the way to finish at about that percentage.

I understand Carlisle is stubborn at times and makes some mistakes but I can't think of anyone on this board or in the media that expected anything close to this much success.

[Dallas41]

What they have done in Memphis this year is amazing

He has to be in consideration for COY

[ChileanMavsFan]

I'm all for Carlisle for COY, love the way he has let Luka run the show and has been making the most out of the team, above what I expected during offseason. I am sometimes a critic of his substitutions or specific game situations, but big picture I can't fault much of what he has done this year.

I think probably his bigger challenger if things ended now would be Spoelstra. 3rd place in the east with lots of young players (Adebayo, Winslow, Nunn, Herro, Robinson, Derrick Jones) contributing big minutes.

[turin]

Originally Posted by ChileanMavsFan

I'm all for Carlisle for COY, love the way he has let Luka run the show and has been making the most out of the team, above what I expected during offseason. I am sometimes a critic of his substitutions or specific game situations, but big picture I can't fault much of what he has done this year.

I think probably his bigger challenger if things ended now would be Spoelstra. 3rd place in the east with lots of young players (Adebayo, Winslow, Nunn, Herro, Robinson, Derrick Jones) contributing big minutes.

No way RC is COY. He has done some good things, but he's let entirely too many winnable games slip/choke away imo.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[G-Man]

Carlisle should get consideration for doing what he's done with the mediocre talent he has. While Luka is playing like an all-time great, KP is probably the only other player we have who could start for a good team like the Lakers or the Bucks. Maybe Hardaway, but at the beginning of the season, folks here would have traded him for a wooden nickle. The Mavs always wanted him, and once Rick got him in the right situation, he has been solid. Our only all-star is KP, who's been MIA for a while. The Lakers have 2 all-stars on their bench. We hardly have any high lottery picks.

Rick is winning with un-drafted players he has rounded in to equally solid players. Nobody else wanted DFS or Maxi. The same is true for 2nd rounders like Powell and Brunson. In their first year, it was hard to understand why Rick was investing time with any of them. Now they are the kind of total buy-in, low price pieces that make the foundation of a strong future. Its the same thing he did with JJB. I thought he was a total loser, right up until the moment he shredded the dreaded Lakers and Heat and got us that banner hanging in the AAC.

Speaking of JJB, Rick gets props from me for not playing him. In several of those close games we lost, Barea's experience and leadership could have managed the Mavs into a win. Rick decided its more important for our young guys to get the experience of playing under pressure. Few things focus the mind like having your mistakes result in a loss. They must learn how to stop blowing leads, and they recently showed that maybe they are. Against Portland, they held on, even against seasoned super talents like Liliard and Carmelo, who've been leading comebacks for more than a decade.

Rick understands that getting better is more important than getting wins. Its the kind of vision that is rarely rewarded, so I don't expect him to be COY. But in the discussion? Absolutely.

[KillerLeft]

Originally Posted by G-Man

Carlisle should get consideration for doing what he's done with the mediocre talent he has. While Luka is playing like an all-time great, KP is probably the only other player we have who could start for a good team like the Lakers or the Bucks. Maybe Hardaway, but at the beginning of the season, folks here would have traded him for a wooden nickle. The Mavs always wanted him, and once Rick got him in the right situation, he has been solid. Our only all-star is KP, who's been MIA for a while. The Lakers have 2 all-stars on their bench. We hardly have any high lottery picks.

Rick is winning with un-drafted players he has rounded in to equally solid players. Nobody else wanted DFS or Maxi. The same is true for 2nd rounders like Powell and Brunson. In their first year, it was hard to understand why Rick was investing time with any of them. Now they are the kind of total buy-in, low price pieces that make the foundation of a strong future. Its the same thing he did with JJB. I thought he was a total loser, right up until the moment he shredded the dreaded Lakers and Heat and got us that banner hanging in the AAC.

Speaking of JJB, Rick gets props from me for not playing him. In several of those close games we lost, Barea's experience and leadership could have managed the Mavs into a win. Rick decided its more important for our young guys to get the experience of playing under pressure. Few things focus the mind like having your mistakes result in a loss. They must learn how to stop blowing leads, and they recently showed that maybe they are. Against Portland, they held on, even against seasoned super talents like Liliard and Carmelo, who've been leading comebacks for more than a decade.

Rick understands that getting better is more important than getting wins. Its the kind of vision that is rarely rewarded, so I don't expect him to be COY. But in the discussion? Absolutely.

I agree 100% with your point about Barea. I take slight issue with the statement about the quality of the rest of the players. I actually think DFS, Hardaway, Kleber and Powell have all been pretty great this season, but I give Carlisle a lot of credit for that, too.

[dirt_dobber]

THJ has spoken more than once how Carlisle helped him this past off-season.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by dirt_dobber

THJ has spoken more than once how Carlisle helped him this past off-season.

Yeah, THJ was 100% hit or miss until Rick got a hold of him -- now he's figuring out how to be productive even when his shot isn't falling (assists, defense, etc).

[Dallas41]

I still believe Memphis coach should get COY if that team somehow makes the playoffs

Also, I believe nate McMillan, quinn Snyder and billy Donavan should all be commended on underrated jobs they continue to do