2018 NBA Draft - Page 44 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Underdog · 05-19-2018, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I would trade the entire team minus DSJ and any cap space for Memphis's pick.

Same... DSJ / MPJ or Bagley / JJJ or Bamba would be a helluva core to build a team around for the next decade.

(honestly, I just want "Team Junior" with DSJ/MPJ/JJJ so I don't have to type as much)

EricaLubarsky · 05-20-2018, 10:56 AM

Lotta buzz that Philly May want to trade the #10

sefant77 · 05-20-2018, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

What are we going to do with that cap space again? That sounds like a plan powder move when it's much wiser to have asset in hand.

We need a young core to build around, period. Everything else comes second.

Plan Powder in 2018 and 2019 has thanks to the insane 2016 summer much better odds to work...

DevinHarriswillstart · 05-20-2018, 07:42 PM

From BSPN, but these boards have been dead today...

https://basketball.realgm.com/wireta...On-Luka-Doncic

Needless to say it wouldn't surprise me one bit to see Doncic fall. Hope we don't take him. I've changed my mind that I'd even take MPJ over him.

sefant77 · 05-20-2018, 08:03 PM

He wont slide past the Grizzlies because Gasol is not going to let this happen. And i wouldnt be surprised if Doncic makes the Hawks and Kings look stupid in the long run.

And IF he is available at #5 the Mavs would take him for sure.

Underdog · 05-20-2018, 09:42 PM

Wait, how do I feel about Doncic?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Ayton
Porter
Jackson
Bamba
Bagley
Doncic

Oh, that's right -- I never bought into the narrative, I watched the tape.

He'd be great in Orlando.

sefant77 · 05-20-2018, 10:09 PM

Which tape you watched of Porter to put him at #2? Some HS stuff?

HS > Euroleague?

I think its just weird to put Porter at #2 and Doncic at #6 with such arguments

Underdog · 05-20-2018, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

Which tape you watched of Porter to put him at #2? Some HS stuff?

HS > Euroleague?

I think its just weird to put Porter at #2 and Doncic at #6 with such arguments

Because Porter moves better, he's smoother, faster, better at getting into position on defense, his shot is more consistent -- mechanics don't change with competition.

Plus, Euroleague is fucking garbage -- guys just stand there and watch Doncic score. I don't know how the rules work over there, but NOBODY plays defense.

sefant77 · 05-20-2018, 10:16 PM

Well...against shitty competition everyone looks better

I really dont want to be Donnie this draft...

Porter with an injury and just HS tape.
Doncic as Euro
Bamba/JJJ as super taw talents

Brrrrr...

Underdog · 05-20-2018, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

Well...against shitty competition everyone looks better

I really dont want to be Donnie this draft...

Porter with an injury and just HS tape.
Doncic as Euro
Bamba/JJJ as super taw talents

Brrrrr...

Michael Porter Jr. didn't just play in high school, he played the McDonalds All-American camp, Crossroads Elite camp, USA camp, etc -- he's played against future NBA talent for years now... He played against Dennis Smith Jr, even... I have a much better idea of what he'll be in the NBA than Doncic.

DevinHarriswillstart · 05-20-2018, 10:38 PM

That's why I'm not freaking about about picking 5th.

Even Donnie mentioned that it's Ayton first and the rest is in the eye of the beholder.

Bryan_Wilson · 05-20-2018, 10:42 PM

Doncic will be fine on defense. His iq is seriously special. He's not falling to 5.

He's 19 and he won the MVP award for the final four. He's the youngest ever to do it. This talk of teams saying he struggled is coming after his camp is trying to get leverage to not get picked by 2 of the shittiest organizations in basketball with almost no marketing ability.

Edit-
So correct me if I'm wrong but he won euroleague, and mvp, and now finals mvp... at 19? Ok.

sefant77 · 05-20-2018, 11:03 PM

And the Euros at age 18 together with Dragic beating spain with the Gasols etc

EricaLubarsky · 05-21-2018, 12:37 AM

My top 6
1) Mikal Bridges - guaranteed starter with 3/D. Has shown much more versatile offense like driving and moving without the ball. May be a Marion/Leonard type. Leadership, drive, IQ, defense, offense.
2) Bamba - numbers remarkably close to Mutombo. I still don’t think his offense will be much more than lobs, simple post moves and the very occasional midrange jumper but he’s got DPOY written all over him
3) Bagley- needs to work on defense and footwork but dude reminds me of Sheed. Extremely skilled scorer. Decent without the ball and excellent with.
4) Jackson - high ceiling, low floor. Dude has shown glimpses of amazing but in very low PT. Equal chances of being brilliant and being a sixth man.
4) Ayton - no idea why, but I just feel like he will be injured/bust. His body is ready. He just doesn’t have the drive or maturity. I just get an Eddy Curry vibe from him.
5) Doncic - solid starter, but I don’t see the star potential. High floor, low ceiling guy. Don’t see how he fits with Smith.
6) Porter - has the potential to be Paul George or a bigger Gordon Hayward. I just have deep concerns about his health and his game. Could very well be worth the risk if other guys are off the table.

j0Shi · 05-21-2018, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

but NOBODY plays defense.

That seems to be a weird perception. EU basketball is much more physical than the sissy NBA of today.

FreshJive · 05-21-2018, 12:15 PM

The last time the Mavs passed on the elite ball handler with size that fell into thier laps, he became Giannis.

DevinHarriswillstart · 05-21-2018, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreshJive

The last time the Mavs passed on the elite ball handler with size that fell into thier laps, he became Giannis.

Giannis was an absolute freak athlete with freak size. I dunno how ANYONE could watch Doncic and think he has the athleticism needed to make it in today's NBA.

EricaLubarsky · 05-21-2018, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreshJive

The last time the Mavs passed on the elite ball handler with size that fell into thier laps, he became Giannis.

By that logic, you shouldn't pass on 7 foot Europeans.

And that got the Knicks Bargnani

SMC0007 · 05-21-2018, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Giannis was an absolute freak athlete with freak size. I dunno how ANYONE could watch Doncic and think he has the athleticism needed to make it in today's NBA.

Ginobiliiii, Wes Mathews, Joe Ingles and imsure many others have made it fine.

SMC0007 · 05-21-2018, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

By that logic, you shouldn't pass on 7 foot Europeans.

And that got the Knicks Bargnani

...and KP

DevinHarriswillstart · 05-21-2018, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Ginobiliiii, Wes Mathews, Joe Ingles and imsure many others have made it fine.

And all of those guys superstars right? And Manu wasn't a great athlete, but he from my recollection moved pretty fluidly especially without the ball.

Once again, Doncic has to be a superstar to justify the pick. He can't just be fricken' Wes Matthew or Joe Ingles.

EricaLubarsky · 05-21-2018, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

And all of those guys superstars right? And Manu wasn't a great athlete, but he from my recollection moved pretty fluidly especially without the ball.

Once again, Doncic has to be a superstar to justify the pick. He can't just be fricken' Wes Matthew or Joe Ingles.

And that's why I dont put him in my top 5.

Dude absolutely knows how to play basketball. He is ready to come in and I fully expect him to average 15-4-4 next season if given the minutes. He absolutely will be a decent starter.

I just think his ceiling is fairly low. He's young, sure. I'm not sure where he goes to really elevate his game.

Then again, you could have said that about Dirk and he added absolutely lethal jumpshooting. And driving. And post-play. And decent defense.

MavzMan · 05-21-2018, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

And all of those guys superstars right? And Manu wasn't a great athlete, but he from my recollection moved pretty fluidly especially without the ball.

Once again, Doncic has to be a superstar to justify the pick. He can't just be fricken' Wes Matthew or Joe Ingles.

I would argue that being High-IQ/Low-Athletic is lot more likely to make it in the NBA that Low-IQ/High-Athletic. There are athletic guys all over the place, just go look at the local park. Watching Harden and CP3 last night, they are not overly athletic themselves. They use their bodies very well in initiating a ton of contact in order to create space. GS is also a perfect example in that they block out on rebounds all of the time preventing taller/more athletic players from getting the rebound.

I'm not saying that Doncic is going to be a super-star, but I am saying that he declaring that he won't be simply because of athleticism is wrong. However, I really hope the Mavs don't have to make that choice because I don't want to go through another franchise player career with a Euro player that gets zero respect from the league.

DevinHarriswillstart · 05-21-2018, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavzMan

I would argue that being High-IQ/Low-Athletic is lot more likely to make it in the NBA that Low-IQ/High-Athletic. There are athletic guys all over the place, just go look at the local park. Watching Harden and CP3 last night, they are not overly athletic themselves. They use their bodies very well in initiating a ton of contact in order to create space. GS is also a perfect example in that they block out on rebounds all of the time preventing taller/more athletic players from getting the rebound.

I'm not saying that Doncic is going to be a super-star, but I am saying that he declaring that he won't be simply because of athleticism is wrong. However, I really hope the Mavs don't have to make that choice because I don't want to go through another franchise player career with a Euro player that gets zero respect from the league.

My thing is people downplaying the high risk of picking him like it's a sure thing. To me, he is the highest risk of the top 6 talent.

I think he'll be a good player, no doubt, but he isn't what the Mavs need if the FO doesn't think for sure he'll be superstar.

FreshJive · 05-21-2018, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Giannis was an absolute freak athlete with freak size. I dunno how ANYONE could watch Doncic and think he has the athleticism needed to make it in today's NBA.

Like pretty much every NBA scout?

FreshJive · 05-21-2018, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

By that logic, you shouldn't pass on 7 foot Europeans.

And that got the Knicks Bargnani

The Knicks? You sure about that?

MavzMan · 05-21-2018, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

My thing is people downplaying the high risk of picking him like it's a sure thing. To me, he is the highest risk of the top 6 talent.

I think he'll be a good player, no doubt, but he isn't what the Mavs need if the FO doesn't think for sure he'll be superstar.

So for argument's sake, let's say it goes like this:
PHO - Ayton
SAC - JJJ
ATL - Bagley
MEM - Bamba
and MPJ shows up with a bad back.
Who's your pick?

I think best case scenario is that we have a good choice between 2 players, but it's also likely that whoever we pick is simply who's left of the top players.

DevinHarriswillstart · 05-21-2018, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavzMan

So for argument's sake, let's say it goes like this:
PHO - Ayton
SAC - JJJ
ATL - Bagley
MEM - Bamba
and MPJ shows up with a bad back.
Who's your pick?

I think best case scenario is that we have a good choice between 2 players, but it's also likely that whoever we pick is simply who's left of the top players.

I think that's worst case scenario for the 5th pick, and one I'm afraid will happen.

But I go MPJ all day long because he is 6'11, athletic, and has a killer jump shot when not injured. He is the perfect PF in today's NBA....IF cleared. Big if.

Melonhead · 05-21-2018, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

And all of those guys superstars right? And Manu wasn't a great athlete, but he from my recollection moved pretty fluidly especially without the ball.

Once again, Doncic has to be a superstar to justify the pick. He can't just be fricken' Wes Matthew or Joe Ingles.

And how many years has Ginobli been a bench player? I just dont see what people see in Doncic when it comes to a big star.

sefant77 · 05-21-2018, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Because Porter moves better, he's smoother, faster, better at getting into position on defense, his shot is more consistent -- mechanics don't change with competition.

Plus, Euroleague is fucking garbage -- guys just stand there and watch Doncic score. I don't know how the rules work over there, but NOBODY plays defense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Michael Porter Jr. didn't just play in high school, he played the McDonalds All-American camp, Crossroads Elite camp, USA camp, etc -- he's played against future NBA talent for years now... He played against Dennis Smith Jr, even... I have a much better idea of what he'll be in the NBA than Doncic.

Sorry, you lost me completly here...writing that Euroleague is garbage etc but Porter is great because he looked good in freaking camp games.

And if you not even really know the euro rules means you dont really watch euro games

Just be honest and say you are absolute biased in general against euro ball...

sefant77 · 05-21-2018, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

And all of those guys superstars right? And Manu wasn't a great athlete, but he from my recollection moved pretty fluidly especially without the ball.

Once again, Doncic has to be a superstar to justify the pick. He can't just be fricken' Wes Matthew or Joe Ingles.

Why this logic counts for Doncic but not for Porter?

And what if Porter ends up just as a lame taller version of Joe Johnson? wasted pick too, huh? Because Porter has to be a superstar to justify the pick

sefant77 · 05-21-2018, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

And how many years has Ginobli been a bench player? I just dont see what people see in Doncic when it comes to a big star.

lol....Gino was a bench player because of the Spurs system and putting system and success over everything else.

Dude was starter material for the entire league...

SMC0007 · 05-21-2018, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

And all of those guys superstars right? And Manu wasn't a great athlete, but he from my recollection moved pretty fluidly especially without the ball.

Once again, Doncic has to be a superstar to justify the pick. He can't just be fricken' Wes Matthew or Joe Ingles.

You said make it in the nba though. Doncic looks every bit as smooth if not more smooth than Ginobili. He wont be available when we pick anyway, but there is no way we wouldn't take him if he was there at 5.

SMC0007 · 05-21-2018, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

lol....Gino was a bench player because of the Spurs system and putting system and success over everything else.

Dude was starter material for the entire league...

There was a decent amount of time where he ended games playing the point and iso at the top of the top and it was a nightmare for anyone and any team. IQ, Handles and timing > raw athleticism.

SMC0007 · 05-21-2018, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

Why this logic counts for Doncic but not for Porter?

And what if Porter ends up just as a lame taller version of Joe Johnson? wasted pick too, huh? Because Porter has to be a superstar to justify the pick

No because you have a built in excuse that he didnt end up a superstar because of his back .

DevinHarriswillstart · 05-21-2018, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

Why this logic counts for Doncic but not for Porter?

And what if Porter ends up just as a lame taller version of Joe Johnson? wasted pick too, huh? Because Porter has to be a superstar to justify the pick

Oh, I'm in total agreement, especially with MPJ's back. I just think his size and athleticism are more worth banking on.

sefant77 · 05-21-2018, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Oh, I'm in total agreement, especially with MPJ's back. I just think his size and athleticism are more worth banking on.

Hmmm...

You cant teach size and you barely can teach athleticism...but you also cant teach bball iq

DevinHarriswillstart · 05-21-2018, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

Hmmm...

You cant teach size and you barely can teach athleticism...but you also cant teach bball iq

Agreed. McGee is probably the dumbest player ever to play basketball with Noel not far behind.

I haven't heard much about JJJ's IQ.

Underdog · 05-21-2018, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

Sorry, you lost me completly here...writing that Euroleague is garbage etc but Porter is great because he looked good in freaking camp games.

And if you not even really know the euro rules means you dont really watch euro games

Just be honest and say you are absolute biased in general against euro ball...

Yes, I'm absolutely biased against EuroLeague, where Nick Calathes (a guy who couldn't even stick as the 15th man on the Mavs roster) is one of the best players. Sorry if that hurts your feelings. And, no, I don't watch enough Euro games to understand the nuances of the rules because it makes my eyes bleed, but I assume the calls against defenders are ticky-tack since I've literally seen guys move AWAY from Doncic while he's driving to the basket. A lot... Call it the "second best basketball league in the world" all you want, but the WNBA is a far more competitive, and I say that with 100% sincerity.

Feel free to downplay the camps that Michael Porter Jr. attended, but at least he's been surrounded by future NBA talent for years now, whereas Doncic is playing against guys who couldn't even stick in the league. Just because they're grown-ups doesn't mean they're any good... He certainly never played a game with this much talent on the floor at once:

2017 McDonald's All American -- Michael Porter Jr (MVP), DeAndre Ayton, Jaren Jackson Jr, Tre Young, Wendell Carter, Collin Sexton, Lonnie Walker, Kevin Knox, Mitch Robinson, Troy Brown, Gary Trent Jr, etc.

I think it's a lot easier to gauge a guy who's going up against future NBA players than a guy who's beating scrubs... Doncic will be a good player (which is why I have him ranked #6), but to assume he'll be able to dominate in the NBA just because he can make NBA washouts in Europe look foolish is way off base.

sefant77 · 05-21-2018, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Michael Porter Jr (MVP), DeAndre Ayton, Jaren Jackson Jr, Tre Young, Wendell Carter, Collin Sexton, Lonnie Walker, Kevin Knox, Mitch Robinson, Troy Brown, Gary Trent Jr, etc.

I think it's a lot easier to gauge a guy who's going up against future NBA players than a guy who's beating scrubs... Doncic will be a good player (which is why I have him ranked #6), but to assume he'll be able to dominate in the NBA just because he can make NBA washouts in Europe look foolish is way off base.

Who says the players are future NBA players? Maybe some end up in china pretty soon, maybe some are career towel waivers...maybe some has worse NBA careers than Nick Calathes...