ACORN discussion - can we move this into one thread?

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

The reason we can't seem to agree is that you attribute no wrongdoing to ACORN in this whole matter.

You probably don't attribute any wrongdoing to ACORN in all of the voter fraud scams, either.

"wrongdoing"? no, I can't see that acorn was guilty of "wrongdoing" in pursuing their goals of better accessibility to housing, and an even chance by minorities and lower income people at getting a lender to make a loan rather than the lender determining that they wouldn't make loans to "those people".

do you see that as "wrongdoing"?

do I see the idea that everyone should own a home illconceived? absolutely, some people have no business owning a home if they are not responsible enough.

as for the voter registration frauds, the "wrongdoing" was committed by the contract workers who cheated.

should acorn have improved systems to catch these worker's cheating? absolutely.

is the system where acorn pays the worker for each voter registration card full of potential problems such as the fraud we've heard about? absolutely.

is acorn committing "wrongdoing" by attempting to register as many eligible voters as can be registered? no.

do you believe that there should not be any private based efforts made to register eligible voters?

[kg_veteran]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

"wrongdoing"? no, I can't see that acorn was guilty of "wrongdoing" in pursuing their goals of better accessibility to housing, and an even chance by minorities and lower income people at getting a lender to make a loan rather than the lender determining that they wouldn't make loans to "those people".

do you see that as "wrongdoing"?

What I see as wrongdoing is the effective blackmail of lenders into lowering credit standards so that people who shouldn't have been getting mortgages were. What I also see as wrongdoing is ACORN getting paid hundreds of thousands of dollars by these banks (in addition to the relaxation of credit standards) so that they wouldn't create a fuss.

do I see the idea that everyone should own a home illconceived? absolutely, some people have no business owning a home if they are not responsible enough.

Or, if they simply don't have enough income to afford it. Providing a mortgage to a person that can't afford it does them no favors.

as for the voter registration frauds, the "wrongdoing" was committed by the contract workers who cheated.

should acorn have improved systems to catch these worker's cheating? absolutely.

is the system where acorn pays the worker for each voter registration card full of potential problems such as the fraud we've heard about? absolutely.

It seems like we're on the same page here.

is acorn committing "wrongdoing" by attempting to register as many eligible voters as can be registered? no.

do you believe that there should not be any private based efforts made to register eligible voters?

I don't have any problem with private efforts to register voters. I do have a problem with trying to register unqualified voters to vote.

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

What I see as wrongdoing is the effective blackmail of lenders into lowering credit standards so that people who shouldn't have been getting mortgages were. What I also see as wrongdoing is ACORN getting paid hundreds of thousands of dollars by these banks (in addition to the relaxation of credit standards) so that they wouldn't create a fuss.

your vision may be, say, clouded in it's accuracy.

acorn was paid by banks for counseling services, as well as for the ventures the banks and acorn formed to facilitate first time home buyers getting into their homes. banks do that with a variety of public and private groups.

again, do you see better accesibility to housing and lending by minorities and lower income households wrong? that is the mission of acorn.

Or, if they simply don't have enough income to afford it. Providing a mortgage to a person that can't afford it does them no favors.

that is true for all income strata, low income, middle income or high income, and the lenders should be doing the qualifying to determine if the borrower can perform.

I don't have any problem with private efforts to register voters. I do have a problem with trying to register unqualified voters to vote.

It seems like we're on the same page here.