2/3rd's of Americans believe Pres Bush's surge strategy in Iraq has been a failure

[Janett_Reno]

Battle Fatigue
The latest NEWSWEEK poll finds that nearly two thirds of Americans believe President Bush's 'surge' strategy in Iraq has been a failure.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19750254/site/newsweek/

President Bush may be trying to rally support for his strategy in Iraq, but his efforts are not faring well with the American public, according to the latest NEWSWEEK Poll. Nearly two thirds of Americans believe that the president's troop “surge” has been a failure, poll respondents said. The survey also found broad public support for cutting the number of troops deployed on the battlefield. But in a bright spot for the president, less than 20 percent favored immediate withdrawal.


Nearly a third of Republicans surveyed (31 percent) declare the surge a failure, which may help to explain why several high-profile senior Republicans have defected from the White House on support for the war.

[Usually Lurkin]

69 percent of republicans think the surge is working? Since the party is abandoning the Pres in droves, they must believe this for other reasons.

[dalmations202]

If the media would have written this same thing as "ONLY 31% of Americans think the Surge is a failure and nearly 70% of Americans think it is working" -- then in two weeks 85% of Americans would be thinking it is working GREAT.

Since they spin it this way, it is bound to go the other direction. TO MANY SHEEPLE.

[Motofoto]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

If the media would have written this same thing as "ONLY 31% of Americans think the Surge is a failure and nearly 70% of Americans think it is working" -- then in two weeks 85% of Americans would be thinking it is working GREAT.

Since they spin it this way, it is bound to go the other direction. TO MANY SHEEPLE.

So only Republicans are now classified as Americans?

[Flacolaco]

2/3rds of americans said in a recent poll that hating on bush is almost as trendy as myspace.com and american idol.

[mcsluggo]

so glad I jumped on the bandwagon early enough to be cool.

[rabbitproof]

Democracy is all about timing.

EDIT:

And money. But that's a given.

[Arne]

George W. Bush has pretty much lost everything he has ever tried to achieve in foreign affairs...

Sad but true, this should be a lesson for American voters. There should be no more reigning by fearmongering.

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety"

-Benjamin Franklin

This quotation can be applied to every western nation in the moment, fearmongering is omnipresent at the moment. And quite frankly I'm disgusted with all of this sick talk. It won't be long and we have to pay a anti-terrorism-tax here in Germany...

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Arne

George W. Bush has pretty much lost everything he has ever tried to achieve in foreign affairs...

Sad but true, this should be a lesson for American voters. There should be no more reigning by fearmongering.

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety"

-Benjamin Franklin

This quotation can be applied to every western nation in the moment, fearmongering is omnipresent at the moment. And quite frankly I'm disgusted with all of this sick talk. It won't be long and we have to pay a anti-terrorism-tax here in Germany...

Pretty amazing stuff... "reigning by fear-mongering", boy..

1. Did or did not congress vote to invade afghanistan?
2. Did or did not the UN vote that Iraq had one last chance to disclose all of his weapons programs?
3. Did or did not the US congress vote to overthrow Saddaam after dubya went to the UN and spent months allowing them to debate it?

Tin-foil stuff.

You want to say it was the wrong move, fine, but this "reichstagg" crap that is thrown around is idiotic.

[dude1394]

Guess the generals are part of the 1/3 (who are actually there) that don't agree with this poll.
http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/...ves/010546.php

General Peter Pace, the outgoing chair of the Joint Chiefs, has called the surge a success, saying that it has brought about a "sea change" in security for Iraq. Time Magazine reports on his remarks from Ramadi, which in itself demonstrates a level of success, as the Anbar Province has changed markedly from the lost cause it appeared a year ago (via Hugh Hewitt):

In his most optimistic remarks since the U.S. troop buildup began, Gen. Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said Tuesday that Iraq has undergone a "sea change" in security in recent months, and that this will influence his recommendation to President Bush on how long to continue the current strategy.

After conferring with Maj. Gen. Walter Gaskin and other commanders in this provincial capital west of Baghdad, Pace told reporters he has gathered a positive picture of the security environment not only here but also in Baghdad, where he began his Iraq visit on Monday.

He was asked whether this would inform his thinking about whether to continue the current strategy, with extra U.S. troops battling to security Baghdad and Anbar province. "It will because what I'm hearing now is a sea change that is taking place in many places here," he replied. "It's no longer a matter of pushing al-Qaida out of Ramadi, for example, but rather — now that they have been pushed out — helping the local police and the local army have a chance to get their feet on the ground and set up their systems."[/quote][/quote]

[Arne]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Pretty amazing stuff... "reigning by fear-mongering", boy..

1. Did or did not congress vote to invade afghanistan?
2. Did or did not the UN vote that Iraq had one last chance to disclose all of his weapons programs?
3. Did or did not the US congress vote to overthrow Saddaam after dubya went to the UN and spent months allowing them to debate it?

Tin-foil stuff.

You want to say it was the wrong move, fine, but this "reichstagg" crap that is thrown around is idiotic.

Nothing wrong about the war in Afghanistan except for the tiny little fact that we couldn't finish it properly because someone was trying to start a senseless war in Iraq that required thousands and thousands of soldiers who could've finished the war in afghanisthan properly.

Yes the UN did vote like that but the UN didn't legitimize the war in Iraq. This brings me to my next point - the UN inspectors said that they had no evidence for the existence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

So if you want to say that the UN excepted this needless war than you're clearly wrong. and if you want to say that these UN resolutions were a reason for the US to start this war then I have to ask: Why do you think did they listen to the UN on this point whereas they didn't listen to the UN inspectors?

How many times did we have to hear "weapons of mass destruction"? How many times did the Bush administration speak of evidence that Saddam had to do with Al Qaeda? How many times? If that wasn't fear-mongering what then are you gonna call fear-mongering.

[Arne]

By the way, spending of the federal government has been almost 1 trillion more in 2006 than in 2000. This means: the spending of the federal government has gone up by nearly 45% since Bush has become president.

Total public debt in the US has gone up roughly 3 trillion dollars since Bush has become president.

So Bush's record is pretty bad in general if you ask me...

[u2sarajevo]

1/3rd'er here....

My father was right (he's a liberal by the way), that the American public doesn't have the stomach to finish what we started.

I think alot of America is turning their backs on the troops while trying to support them. Having their cake and eating it too. It's really sad.

[mcsluggo]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Pretty amazing stuff... "reigning by fear-mongering", boy..

1. Did or did not congress vote to invade afghanistan?
2. Did or did not the UN vote that Iraq had one last chance to disclose all of his weapons programs?
3. Did or did not the US congress vote to overthrow Saddaam after dubya went to the UN and spent months allowing them to debate it?

Tin-foil stuff.

You want to say it was the wrong move, fine, but this "reichstagg" crap that is thrown around is idiotic.

Did you live in this country during the run up to the war?

[DevinFuture]

Originally Posted by Arne

By the way, spending of the federal government has been almost 1 trillion more in 2006 than in 2000. This means: the spending of the federal government has gone up by nearly 45% since Bush has become president.

Total public debt in the US has gone up roughly 3 trillion dollars since Bush has become president.

So Bush's record is pretty bad in general if you ask me...

Remember the welfare state?
It was damn cheap compared to the new homeland security state.
Maybe we can finally put to rest the idea that either of the two parties is committed to small government?

[mcsluggo]

Originally Posted by u2sarajevo

1/3rd'er here....

My father was right (he's a liberal by the way), that the American public doesn't have the stomach to finish what we started.

I think alot of America is turning their backs on the troops while trying to support them. Having their cake and eating it too. It's really sad.

proud "7%-er here.... I thought W was smoking crack back when he had an absurd 90-something-percent approval rating.

but you are right, it highlights the very fickle nature of the American public. And frankly this fickle nature was magnified by the abysmal way this whole exercise was carried out. Overpromising, bullying, supressing ... all this enabled this thing to be rammed through rather quickly and without much spirited debate, but it also ensured that when the inevitable "cooling" to the idea took place, the pendulum would actually swing back much harder than was neccessary.

THe long run prospects of this endeaver were harmed immesuraby by the overbearing AND incompetent nature that the whole thing was started.

[Janett_Reno]

Originally Posted by Arne

Nothing wrong about the war in Afghanistan except for the tiny little fact that we couldn't finish it properly because someone was trying to start a senseless war in Iraq that required thousands and thousands of soldiers who could've finished the war in afghanisthan properly.

Yes the UN did vote like that but the UN didn't legitimize the war in Iraq. This brings me to my next point - the UN inspectors said that they had no evidence for the existence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

So if you want to say that the UN excepted this needless war than you're clearly wrong. and if you want to say that these UN resolutions were a reason for the US to start this war then I have to ask: Why do you think did they listen to the UN on this point whereas they didn't listen to the UN inspectors?

How many times did we have to hear "weapons of mass destruction"? How many times did the Bush administration speak of evidence that Saddam had to do with Al Qaeda? How many times? If that wasn't fear-mongering what then are you gonna call fear-mongering.

Thank you, i totally agree and couldn't have said it better. I had to leave my tv off for a few months because the words ringing in my ears, weapons of mass destruction and mission accomplished.

I thought the mission was to find and get Bin Laden. Did i miss something? They had him trapped and let him go. What would this administation have if they ever lost the fear factor? The fear mongering but now from even his Republican friends, he use to have, is fadding.

[Mavdog]

imho it's too early in the process to label the "troop surge" a success or a failure.

what can be said however is the bush administration's foreign policy is a train wreck.

the goals they outlined have not been reached; our country has not made progress in most of our endeavors, with north korea being about the only positive I can think of, and that success has to be shared with the other countries who took part in the sessions that produced the agreement, and an agreement that was what the current administration said they would not do.

we've seen a resurgent al queda when we should have made them less effective. if ben laden and al zawahiri were caught we would be facing a much less effective adversary. the fact that they are free to put out more videos says a lot about our country's leadership since 9/11.

we've seen a middle east that is much, much less safe then it was before the iraq invasion. the rise of hamas, the rise of hezbollah, the ability of the radicalized muslims to find their soldiers among the violence are testimony to our apparent ineptness.

the russians even believe they can act with impunity, that we need them so much they can even go to england and murder a dissident.

it will take a long time to get our international relations repaired, and an even longer time to restore our position in the world to a positive light.

the best that any of us can hope for in iraq is that the iraqis themselves start to take the responsibility for their own national security and our troops can begin to be drawn down. unfortunately the opposite seems to be taking place.

thanks dubya, as hardy would say to laurel, "Well, here's another fine mess you've gotten us into..."

[rabbitproof]

Originally Posted by mcsluggo

proud "7%-er here.... I thought W was smoking crack back when he had an absurd 90-something-percent approval rating.

but you are right, it highlights the very fickle nature of the American public. And frankly this fickle nature was magnified by the abysmal way this whole exercise was carried out. Overpromising, bullying, supressing ... all this enabled this thing to be rammed through rather quickly and without much spirited debate, but it also ensured that when the inevitable "cooling" to the idea took place, the pendulum would actually swing back much harder than was neccessary.

THe long run prospects of this endeaver were harmed immesuraby by the overbearing AND incompetent nature that the whole thing was started.

True. Rep+.

The whole process for deciding to go into Iraq resembled a rushed and half-hearted marriage. Without proper buy-in, any sign of trouble would make doubting this decision very easy.

[Janett_Reno]

I agree Mavdog and it is almost liked someone bullied him in his life, (W.) and now he want's to show he can be a bully also. It is no doubt in my mind he will not listen to Richard Luger or even take advice from any Republican's that want to try to help him and get him on a better path than he is going. He is not going to listen to the Senate, Congress or anyone that has a different path that Chenny has him on.

Look at this.

U.S.: Afghanistan to break opium record

So is this a good thing? Everywhere we turn, bad is worse and it keps getting worse.

KABUL, Afghanistan - Afghanistan's heroin-producing poppy crop set another record this season, despite intensified eradication efforts, the American ambassador said Tuesday.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070717/...as/afghanistan

North Korea
--------------

Remember, Bush would not deal with a terrorist country but here NK get's what it want's untill they want something else, they will turn their nuke reactors back on and ask for something else.

SK Corp., the largest refiner in South Korea, is the agent for the entire 50,000 metric tons, including the 6,200 shipment. Seoul has said it would take about 20 days to complete the total shipment.

Talks among the two Koreas, China, Japan, Russia and the United States on ending North Korea's nuclear arms program in exchange for an additional 950,000 metric tons of oil aid and better diplomatic standing are likely to resume next week, officials have said. Talks among the two Koreas, China, Japan, Russia and the United States on ending North Korea's nuclear arms program in exchange for an additional 950,000 metric tons of oil aid and better diplomatic standing are likely to resume next week.


What get's me about this administation, is they make no mistakes. They run rough shot over what they want to and ask questions later. Chenny tells Bush what to do but he shoots himself in the foot on every turn of the way. He is not going to talk or deal with any terrorist countries. He is going after the terrorist and boogie men wherever he want's and where he proclaims it is terror.

Then they lay out this terrorist countries and NK was one of them. We all make mistakes and i feel ever administation has made mistakes but let's admit to our short commings and say i am sorry and i will try to do better. Instead always blame your mistake on someone else. The American public has woke up and even alot of the Republicans that use to back this administation is falling by the way side. Alot of them know what he is doing is wrong and he won't listen to no one except Chenny and maybe even Rumsfield behind closed doors. The other reason is they are pulling away from him is their politcal career could be ruined.

Like George Allen who was suppose to be the next pres. He stayed with Bush and all he did. It cost him as it has now cost John McCain.

I think the American people are good people and we all show compassion but someone that is a bully and won't back off from being a bully and claims he is going to keep on keeping on doing as only as Chenny want's, the people get upset because it shows Bush, i am the King and don't forget it. I hear many Republicans call him King Bush.