Duncan/Dirk - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Bayliss · 04-07-2002, 11:27 AM

This rivalry is going to be great for the next several years.

Duncan is in his prime. Dirk isn't just yet but is getting there. Both of them are All-NBA and are two of the "good" guys in the league. This rivalry reminds me a lot of the Bird/Nique showdowns. The last game yesterday was very reminiscient.

Here's Dirk's stats against SA this year:

47 minutes a game
51% FG
33% 3PFG
85% FT
15 Rebs
3.5 Assists
1.75 TOs
1.4 steals
1.25 blocks
27.2 points

Here's Duncan's stats against us this year:

46 minutes a game
58% FG
80% FT
14.5 Rebs
4 assists
3.75 TOs
1.25 steals
2 blocks
36.8 points

The stats very similar. And can ya tell both like to play against each other?

Drbio · 04-07-2002, 02:44 PM

This match up will be one of the premier in all of sports, not just the NBA, for several more years. Dirk should hit the "prime" of his career in the next couple of seasons while Duncan is firmly sitting on his prime right now. These two bring out the best in each other. Think about the Bird-Magic matchups. They always played harder in those games it seemed. I think we are watching something special develop right here in our own backyard. Texas basketball will be solid for years.

scooterj5 · 04-07-2002, 06:38 PM

The stats are similar? Yeah except Ducnan averages almost 10 points more per game. Dirk is one of my favourite players, but even in my biased opinion, Duncan is better.

Epitome22 · 04-07-2002, 10:07 PM

That's because Duncan is a better player than Dirk , he might be better than Dirk even when Dirk is 26-27. But it looks as if a real competition is building. Face it, beyond Shaq and Kobe these are the two most untouchable players in the league. I don't know so much about a Bird vs Magic comparison because those two were the 2 best in the league at that time but I think the question of who is the Mavs's rival is probably answered.

Bayliss · 04-07-2002, 10:13 PM

<< Dirk is one of my favourite players, but even in my biased opinion, Duncan is better. >>

Everyone agrees that **right now** Duncan is better. Duncan is in his prime. Dirk on the other hand isn't in his prime. He averages 1.5-2 a game less than Duncan offensively yet does not receive the calls that Duncan receives, does not have as good of post up game as Duncan, and does not get the touches that Duncan receives.

Seems to me that Dirk's ceiling is a lot higher than Duncan's. Whether he reaches that ceiling remains to be seen.

DTL · 04-08-2002, 03:02 AM

<< The stats are similar? Yeah except Ducnan averages almost 10 points more per game. Dirk is one of my favourite players, but even in my biased opinion, Duncan is better. >>

I'd think it's more because TD is the undisputed #1 and predominant scoring option on the Spurs, while Dirk is -- as has been debated on this board -- usually not given that role, yet.

ArcticBlast · 04-08-2002, 04:24 AM

Personally, even if Duncan is the better player (though I don't agree that that's true), I'd rather have a team with a lot of great players than a one dimentional team. I'm glad that Duncan might the the MPV. No *one* person on the Mavs defines the team. We don't *need* Dirk to wear himself out every night.

Duncan's better right now. Come back and say that in a couple of years. I don't think you'll be able to.

Epitome22 · 04-08-2002, 05:39 AM

The Spurs are not a one dimensional team just because they only have one all-star caliber player. They can score in the paint, they can rebound, they have the best defense in the west and still have a plethora of perimeter shooters on a still deep bench. I love Dirk, but I think it would be no fault of his that in 2 or 3 years he still isn't as good as Duncan. Duncan is only the second player in NBA history to be named All-NBA and All-Defensive in his first 3 seasons. When it's all said and done, Duncan will surpass Malone and be the greatest Big Forward of all time. That's alot to surpass. Dirk will have his own legacy and I'm not saying the bar will be that different between the two of them but I can say at the very most, Duncan will still be better than Dirk, maybe even when Dirk is in his prime and Duncan is towards the end of his and at the very least, you won't be able to say that one is neccessarily better than the other.

Murphy3 · 04-08-2002, 08:25 AM

the spurs are in no way a one dimensional team.

they simply know who to go to when the chips are down. when they need a basket, they give it to their top offensive scoring threat....when they are playing a top western conference team...duncan gets his touches.

should this also occur with dirk?..that is debateable...however, i would like to see the mavs move at least a little bit more in that direction

Murphy3 · 04-08-2002, 08:50 AM

the only major differences between the two in the stats that are listed are:

points

and

turnovers

one favoring duncan heavily and the other favoring dirk heavily

well, dirk simply won't get enough of an opportunity to raise his scoring average against San antonio
regardless of how well he's playing or how much the mavs need scoring, he simply won't get enough scoring opportunities to match duncan

on turnovers, well, duncan does get more touches but is also more likely to lose the ball..he's simply not as good at handling the ball and more susceptible to turnovers

Epitome22 · 04-08-2002, 09:12 AM

That's one thing that dirk has way over Duncan. Dirk is the best dribbling 7 footer in the league and Tim Duncan might not be able to dribble the ball by himself all the way down the court. I remember early in the Portland blowout game where Nowitzki had the ball and Pippen immediatly went for the steal against the 7 footer and Dirk fricken crossed over on him under the right leg and had blew by him with pippen's arm still in the swipe motion like he was in a video game or something. A nice moment in an otherwise horrible game.

LandoCaly · 04-08-2002, 09:52 AM

I love the fact that we're even debating this. I love BOTH Tim Duncan and Dirk's games. I can only dream about Cuban signing Duncan to the max next off-season. Then we'll really have a problem deciding who's team it is!

One extra note. Tim Duncan was considered a lock-in for the #1 pick for 3 years when he was in college. He decided to stay the full 4 years and graduate. Dirk was considered a major risk, a high-school European. Isn't it nice that these guys are even in the same sentence?

The NBA is fantastic. We need to just kick back and just appreciate it sometimes.

Murphy3 · 04-08-2002, 12:15 PM

having an amazing touch from outside, being able to take the ball full court off of a rebound for the slam, and being able to take his man off of the dribble from the three point line..those will always be things that dirk has over tim..
now, dirk must continue to improve on his inside game on offense and defense..

duncan will be the better defensive player, but dirk is closing the gap every year..

ArcticBlast · 04-08-2002, 02:49 PM

Okay, I'll admit that one dimentional was harsher than what I was going for. I'm *still* bitter about the game. However, the Spurs do have less depth than the Mavs. They would be less than mediocre without Duncan. I think the Mavs are still a pretty good team without Dirk. Not much in the playoffs without him, but I don't think the Spurs would be in the playoffs at all without Duncan. But it's all irrevelant. Luckily for both teams, they do have their stars.

TheKid · 04-09-2002, 11:13 AM

That's an interesting point artistic. I never really looked at it that way. However I think that would pertain to a different question, which of the two is more important to their respective teams.

Like I've said all along, Duncan is ahead of Dirk. I think the places where Dirk is behind Duncan, he'll never get to that level and the areas that Dirk is ahead of Duncan, Duncan will never get to his level either in those areas. Time can only tell which one will end up the superior player.

ArcticBlast · 04-09-2002, 03:16 PM

Artistic is me?

Well, that question (who's more important to their team) is being polled at the Spurs site right now and I was going to bring it up. *laughs* Duncan is first with about 46% of the biased vote and Dirk is about third from last (Webber and Malone are last, both with 3%) at 4%. It absolutely thrilled me to see that. Personally, I don't know about the rest of you, but I like that we don't have one player that is everything to the team.

The way it pertains to this question is that Dirk doesn't have to step up as much as Duncan does so the stats don't mean as much to me. *shrugs* I never like stats anyway. I base my opinion on what I see from watching the games. I've watched maybe 30 Spurs games this season and, while Duncan is impressive (beyond impressive, spectacular at times), I'll take Dirk any day.

TheKid · 04-09-2002, 03:44 PM

Artistic, I'm in agreement with you. I like the fact that if Dirk were NOT on the team that we would still be a playoff caliber team. NOW I don't think we would be as good as we are now but I think we would be a playoff caliber team EVEN in the tough west. I don't see the same of the Lakers, Spurs & T-Wolves if you take off Shaq, Duncan and Garnett.

I think the people who DO NOT want to consider Dirk as one of the elite players in the league tend to use this as a deterent against Dirk when it should not be one. Do I think Dirk is the caliber player that can carry a team, YES I do, but fortunately he doesn't have to do that right now or the majority of the time.

DTL · 04-10-2002, 08:30 AM

Five more days to go, and Dirk is only behind by a few votes, 6863-6887, in the Hardcourt Survivor popularity contest Link. Go cast your vote!

Murphy3 · 04-10-2002, 09:57 AM

over the long haul..the mavs would be destroyed on the boards..would be severely hurt without their leading scorer..and would struggle to maybe get an 8th spot in the playoffs in the west..

they would make it without any other player on this team and probably be a higher seed than 8th

TheKid · 04-10-2002, 10:04 AM

Doesn't matter they would still make it is what I'm trying to say. Whether they limped into the playoffs or not, they would make it. The Spurs would NOT be a playoff team without Duncan, nor would the Lakers. In the EAST they might but not in the West.

Murphy3 · 04-10-2002, 10:43 AM

i think the lakers would make it without shaq..kobe would eventually take over...pull them into the 7th-8th spot.
the spurs..well, they basically have duncan, an aging robinson... they wouldn't make the playoffs without duncan...but with duncan..well, they don't really have much of a shot to win the championship either

TheKid · 04-10-2002, 10:54 AM

Well maybe the Lakers would but over the past two seasons when Shaq has been hurt, that team has been a SUB .500 team. Even a .500 doesn't get you in the playoffs in the west. I could see Kobe jacking up a TON of shots if he KNEW he was the man and KNEW Shaq wasn't there. I mean maybe they could but I just can't see it. I think that team goes as Shaq goes.

As far as Duncan goes, they've already won a championship with him so I don't see why you don't think they would have a legitimate chance with him? That's pretty much how I based that decision, the year they won it, even that year (which was a better team than now) would not have won it without Duncan on that team.

The Mavericks haven't played enough games without Dirk (because he rarely misses games) to truly measure how this team would be without him, but in the five (if you want to count the two games this year he started and couldn't finish) they've won all of them. That's why I believe they would be a playoff team. Now I don't think they would make any noise in the playoffs, if any at all actually but they would more than likely make it.