Dallas vs Washington Gameday - Page 9 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

FilthyFinMavs · 02-24-2003, 05:01 PM

<< MFF, weren't you the one who was bitching about Finley taking that shot in Minnesota? Actually, you were more hard on him than everyone else. Or was that just emotion? Why weren't you angry and loudly calling out Dirk after his shot against Washington? I submit to you that Dirk hits more clutch shots than Finley or Nash and you felt more comfortable with Dirk taking that shot. After watching Dirk closely for years, wouldn't you feel more comfortable with Dirk taking that shot than Nash, Finley, or whomever? Dirk is our best clutch shooter and that is why he gets a little slack. Just my opinion. >>

So your saying Dirk has hit more clutch buckets for us than Nick Van Exel? Or are you saying that Dirk has hit more clutch buckets for his career than Fin or Nash? Both are wrong.

FilthyFinMavs · 02-24-2003, 05:04 PM

<< dirk looked out of it at first...
yes, dirk took the shot slightly too early but this instance wasn't remotely as blatant as the finley instance >>

Regardless they both were stupid plays. A Stupid play is a stupid play. There is no such thing as one play being more stupid than the other. They both are stupid but as you are expressing yourself Dirk is getting excuses from everywhere while if it was Fin, Nick, or Nash all hell will break loose even if they would've made the shot.

Bookit · 02-24-2003, 05:39 PM

So your saying Dirk has hit more clutch buckets for us than Nick Van Exel? Or are you saying that Dirk has hit more clutch buckets for his career than Fin or Nash? Both are wrong.

FFM, who would you rather take a wide open three at the end of the game....Finley, Dirk, Nash, or NVE? The only reason Dirk doesn't do it more often is because he is instantly double teamed because other teams just won't let Dirk beat them. Late in games, I would take Dirk first, followed by NVE, and with Nash and Finley last. Nash and Finley just don't seem to get it done late in games. Actually, I would take Dirk by a wide margin over NVE provided they have the same shot.

DrtyFlthyNstYnQuik31 · 02-24-2003, 05:52 PM

To sum it all up, the mavs are loaded with talent in which, the pg,g,sf, or pf can take the final or clutch shot. Dirk, nash, fin, van exel. Take your pick. This is why its soo hard for other teams to defend the mavs, because no one can leave anyone open because if they do its lights out (ie utah when van exel hit the baseline 3)... The thing is these players can hit these clutch shots, but are they willing to? I have seen fin doing it, atleast he gots guts, dirk sometimes seems to shy away to take over in crunch time. However the past some games nowitzki has been taking crunch time seriously it seems. Nash seems to hit clutch shots like in OT against the wizards. Van Exel who basically is a 4th option (although, i feel his the best clutch shooter on the mavs) to the big 3 almost always hits his clutch shots( and has been known throughout his career to do so).

FilthyFinMavs · 02-24-2003, 06:01 PM

<< So your saying Dirk has hit more clutch buckets for us than Nick Van Exel? Or are you saying that Dirk has hit more clutch buckets for his career than Fin or Nash? Both are wrong.

FFM, who would you rather take a wide open three at the end of the game....Finley, Dirk, Nash, or NVE? The only reason Dirk doesn't do it more often is because he is instantly double teamed because other teams just won't let Dirk beat them. Late in games, I would take Dirk first, followed by NVE, and with Nash and Finley last. Nash and Finley just don't seem to get it done late in games. Actually, I would take Dirk by a wide margin over NVE provided they have the same shot. >>

I was replying to your post saying you have watched Dirk through his years as a Mav and said that he has hit more clutch shots than any other Mav and that is not true unless you became a Dirk or Mavs fan this year. If you haven't noticed this season we haven't been in late game situations as much as the previous years. Which results into Fin and Nash not hitting as many clutch buckets as they use to. I don't think you understand what clutch is. Clutch is hitting a basket when the basket is needed. Clutch is hitting a basket that if you miss will cost you the game. Do I want Dirk taking the last shot of the game? Sure why not. Do I mind if Fin, Nash or Nick take the last jumper? Nope. But this question still remains " Why eat everyone but Dirk alive for making a mistake"?

Bookit · 02-24-2003, 06:21 PM

<<

<< So your saying Dirk has hit more clutch buckets for us than Nick Van Exel? Or are you saying that Dirk has hit more clutch buckets for his career than Fin or Nash? Both are wrong.

FFM, who would you rather take a wide open three at the end of the game....Finley, Dirk, Nash, or NVE? The only reason Dirk doesn't do it more often is because he is instantly double teamed because other teams just won't let Dirk beat them. Late in games, I would take Dirk first, followed by NVE, and with Nash and Finley last. Nash and Finley just don't seem to get it done late in games. Actually, I would take Dirk by a wide margin over NVE provided they have the same shot. >>

I was replying to your post saying you have watched Dirk through his years as a Mav and said that he has hit more clutch shots than any other Mav and that is not true unless you became a Dirk or Mavs fan this year. If you haven't noticed this season we haven't been in late game situations as much as the previous years. Which results into Fin and Nash not hitting as many clutch buckets as they use to. I don't think you understand what clutch is. Clutch is hitting a basket when the basket is needed. Clutch is hitting a basket that if you miss will cost you the game. Do I want Dirk taking the last shot of the game? Sure why not. Do I mind if Fin, Nash or Nick take the last jumper? Nope. But this question still remains " Why eat everyone but Dirk alive for making a mistake"? >>

You and I obviously are looking at different things. Dirk is money, period. I have more confidence watching him take a shot under pressure than anybody. This opinion is based on watching every game for the last 3 years. Finley used to hit big shots at the end of games but doesn't really seem to do it much anymore. Nash has hit a couple of big shots but seems to miss when it really counts. Dirk, on the other hand, will nail a shot more often than not. For that I will cut him some slack for a few late misses and mistakes. However, if Dirk gets into a habit of dumb mistakes and misses then this board will eat him alive IMO.

Lvubun1 · 02-24-2003, 06:31 PM

<< I agree MFF and MFFL. FIf Fin took that same shot there would have been "Trade Fin" talk. But since Dirk took it with 6.3 seconds left it is excusable? I am with MFFL here. I don't care if people blame Fin for a stupid mistake but why have it one way and not the other? How can you say takinga shot with 6.3 seconds is a good shot when you could've used more time off the clock? If you are faced with taking a prayer over taking a easy shot with more time left you do it. Regardless you take prayers. With Dirk there is no such thing as a prayer. He is 7 foot tall. No one on the Wizards is even 6'10 for that matter. I don't believe we should bash any player so I am not going to sit here and say we should. We should just see it as a mistake in the REGULAR SEASON and go along with it. No reason for threads of how stupid Fin is or we should trade him to get Brian Grant. Maybe it is because we are Fin fans we believe he should be treated with just as much respect as Dirk gets. I must admit this whole Dirk kissing is getting a bit sick. I remember the days Nash use to get that same love. Looks as if Nash is starting to be liked as much as Fin is now. >>

When you have a team of 3-4 stars and/or popular players this is bound to happen. And that's what we have here, people deflecting blame off their "boy" and place it on somebody else. No matter what anybody says everybody here has a favorite player that they like more then everybody else, this isn't the Magic where 99% of Magic fans favorite player is T-Mac. In this case, Dirk fans are the majority so you will get most of the blame deflected on the other stars, hey what can you do? Leave or put up with the daily "Post up Dirk" "Give Dirk the ball" "Why is NVE playing" "Ride the pony"(or is it Clydesdale, whatever) Luckly, the Mavs lockerroom isn't like this or we would be in trouble.

FilthyFinMavs · 02-24-2003, 06:36 PM

<<

<< I agree MFF and MFFL. FIf Fin took that same shot there would have been "Trade Fin" talk. But since Dirk took it with 6.3 seconds left it is excusable? I am with MFFL here. I don't care if people blame Fin for a stupid mistake but why have it one way and not the other? How can you say takinga shot with 6.3 seconds is a good shot when you could've used more time off the clock? If you are faced with taking a prayer over taking a easy shot with more time left you do it. Regardless you take prayers. With Dirk there is no such thing as a prayer. He is 7 foot tall. No one on the Wizards is even 6'10 for that matter. I don't believe we should bash any player so I am not going to sit here and say we should. We should just see it as a mistake in the REGULAR SEASON and go along with it. No reason for threads of how stupid Fin is or we should trade him to get Brian Grant. Maybe it is because we are Fin fans we believe he should be treated with just as much respect as Dirk gets. I must admit this whole Dirk kissing is getting a bit sick. I remember the days Nash use to get that same love. Looks as if Nash is starting to be liked as much as Fin is now. >>

Ahh now this is what I was looking for. I didn't think I would get this answer but thanks for it. I think this is the most reasonable answer all thread long. It's sad but it's true. And you know what I pray that the Mavs aren't like this. Forget what coach we have if our players think like this no one can save us.

When you have a team of 3-4 stars and/or popular players this is bound to happen. And that's what we have here, people deflecting blame off their "boy" and place it on somebody else. No matter what anybody says everybody here has a favorite player that they like more then everybody else, this isn't the Magic where 99% of Magic fans favorite player is T-Mac. In this case, Dirk fans are the majority so you will get most of the blame deflected on the other stars, hey what can you do? Leave or put up with the daily "Post up Dirk" "Give Dirk the ball" "Why is NVE playing" "Ride the pony"(or is it Clydesdale, whatever) Luckly, the Mavs lockerroom isn't like this or we would be in trouble. >>

FilthyFinMavs · 02-24-2003, 06:37 PM

<<

<< I agree MFF and MFFL. FIf Fin took that same shot there would have been "Trade Fin" talk. But since Dirk took it with 6.3 seconds left it is excusable? I am with MFFL here. I don't care if people blame Fin for a stupid mistake but why have it one way and not the other? How can you say takinga shot with 6.3 seconds is a good shot when you could've used more time off the clock? If you are faced with taking a prayer over taking a easy shot with more time left you do it. Regardless you take prayers. With Dirk there is no such thing as a prayer. He is 7 foot tall. No one on the Wizards is even 6'10 for that matter. I don't believe we should bash any player so I am not going to sit here and say we should. We should just see it as a mistake in the REGULAR SEASON and go along with it. No reason for threads of how stupid Fin is or we should trade him to get Brian Grant. Maybe it is because we are Fin fans we believe he should be treated with just as much respect as Dirk gets. I must admit this whole Dirk kissing is getting a bit sick. I remember the days Nash use to get that same love. Looks as if Nash is starting to be liked as much as Fin is now. >>

When you have a team of 3-4 stars and/or popular players this is bound to happen. And that's what we have here, people deflecting blame off their "boy" and place it on somebody else. No matter what anybody says everybody here has a favorite player that they like more then everybody else, this isn't the Magic where 99% of Magic fans favorite player is T-Mac. In this case, Dirk fans are the majority so you will get most of the blame deflected on the other stars, hey what can you do? Leave or put up with the daily "Post up Dirk" "Give Dirk the ball" "Why is NVE playing" "Ride the pony"(or is it Clydesdale, whatever) Luckly, the Mavs lockerroom isn't like this or we would be in trouble. >>

Ahh now this is what I was looking for. I didn't think I would get this answer but thanks for it. I think this is the most reasonable answer all thread long. It's sad but it's true. And you know what I pray that the Mavs aren't like this. Forget what coach we have if our players think like this no one can save us.

Lvubun1 · 02-24-2003, 06:38 PM

I would hate for it to happen but more then likely if the Mavs can't do anything in the playoffs major moves will be made, and chances are NVE and Finley will be packaged, as I don't see Dirk or Nash going anywhere. It would be intersting to see a Fin & NVE vs. Dirk & Nash battle, it would be like at Wrestlemania 5 "The Mega Powers Explode" "Macho Man Randy Savage" vs. "Hulk Hogan"

Hmmm I guess Shawn Bradley can play the chick, with his soft ass.

FilthyFinMavs · 02-24-2003, 06:56 PM

<< I would hate for it to happen but more then likely if the Mavs can't do anything in the playoffs major moves will be made, and chances are NVE and Finley will be packaged, as I don't see Dirk or Nash going anywhere. It would be intersting to see a Fin & NVE vs. Dirk & Nash battle, it would be like at Wrestlemania 5 "The Mega Powers Explode" "Macho Man Randy Savage" vs. "Hulk Hogan"

Hmmm I guess Shawn Bradley can play the chick, with his soft ass. >>

Ahaahha @ Shawn being Miss Elizabeth. Yea but starting to hear about that talk of Payton and Mason for Nash is starting to have me think. Would Cuban step that low enough to trade Nash? I am starting to think so. Everytime I see Nick hit a clutch bucket makes me wonder will Nash be a Mav next season. I wonder for both Fin and Nash. I am not sure if Mavs would get a bargain on Fin but I am almost positive they could for Nash. Anyway I hope the Big 3 retire as Mavs. Not only that but I hope they win a ring here.

MavsFanFinley · 02-24-2003, 07:48 PM

Actually Bookit, I have complained about Dirk on a number of ocassions. It even so happens that Fidel made a post along the lines...

stupid turnover by Finley

I replied a couple plays later with...

stupid turnover by Dirk.

Fidel came back and asked if I was giving that back for the Fin comment? Not only was it a stupid turnover, but I was giving it back.

NOT ONE POSTER here commented that it was a stupid turnover by Dirk. Not many are admitting that Dirk's shot was an error in judgment either. They swear up and down, he was correct in that situation, but Fin's was drastically different. That we can't even compare that.

Do you remember how many posters and posts were made about Fin's error in the Minnesota game? And yes I was a big part of that. Fin messed up and was key in costing us the game. I let him have it.

In fact, wasn't there a thread created along the lines of...

I love you Fin, but...It was a whole new thread created for the sole purpose of bashing Fin further, apparently the game thread wasn't enough.

And why didn't I complain about Dirk's shot? It's like beating my head against the wall. No matter what I point out as a stupid play by Dirk, there's a dozen posters that say no, what he did was correct or make some sort of excuse.

Woo-hoo, we had some posters comment about how Dirk was not into the game in the first half, but if it had been Finley, this place would have been all over him.

Bayliss · 02-24-2003, 08:06 PM

Did Dirk shoot too quick? Yes. He should've pulled up about 3 feet. And then shot.

Was it the same as Finley's? No. Dirk was wide open. Fin on the other hand was not. Dirk got the ball after a made scramble. Fin on the other hand knew exactly how much time was on the clock.

What drove me more crazy about the last possession was that the play was ran through Nash's hands instead of Dirk's. In fact the last time Dirk shot the ball (before the 3) was at 6:26. He went over 6 minutes in the 4th w/o a shot.

Says a lot about the coach who doesn't even want to give his "greatest player" a couple of shots in the critical time of the game.

FilthyFinMavs · 02-24-2003, 10:16 PM

Bayliss there it is again. Finding an excuse to make up for Dirk's stupid play. I think this is what me and MFFL and MFF are talking about. It was a good shot? He didn't even hit rim. Dirk made a stupid play but oh since he was wide open it's okay? Stupid is stupid. THere is no sugar coating it like everyone is trying to do.

Bayliss · 02-24-2003, 10:26 PM

I believe he did hit rim. And my reasons above is why I don't think they were comparable.

Call them excuses. Whatever. But it was not the same circumstances.

FilthyFinMavs · 02-24-2003, 10:45 PM

I hate to keep beating this thread but whether it was 6 seconds left on the clock compared to 14 when Fin took his didn't they both end up with the same result? They both ended up with another shot for the other team? How is that different circumstances.

Bayliss · 02-24-2003, 10:50 PM

Because one player was wide open. The other player wasn't. One player gave the opponent 2 seconds to shoot. The other player gave the opponent 8 seconds.

FilthyFinMavs · 02-24-2003, 10:58 PM

<< Because one player was wide open. The other player wasn't. One player gave the opponent 2 seconds to shoot. The other player gave the opponent 8 seconds. >>

Well if the other player was wide open woudln't that make the play even more stupid? If he was open he could've held the ball till soemone got on him. Dirk is capable of hitting a jumper with someone shorter than him on him especially if it was MJ. The brick Dirk had was nasty. He can hit that jumper but if he was to drive to the whole for a better shot since he was open then wouldn't that be a smart play? Rather than throw something up there because it went in the previous time? I know which play was more stupid but I don't get how they both weren't stupid. They both gave the opponent plenty of time to get a good shot and both ended up with a good shot problem is MJ got lucky and missed.

superheadcat · 02-24-2003, 11:05 PM

let's cease fire, ok?

LRB · 02-24-2003, 11:15 PM

<< Will anyone admit, other than Finley fans, that if that had been Fin turning the ball over (namely that inbounds play), taking contested shots, throwing lazy passes, walking away while the other teams player is about to shoot a ft, that we would have had a riot here? >>

MFF, I'm one of the biggest Dirk fan's on this board. But I think most any rational person will admit that Dirk made several mental errors in the Wizards game. And yes Fin, NVE, Nash or anyother player would have caught much more crap than Dirk did. Of the big 3, Fin most likely would have caught the most crap for the same mistakes.

Some, not all, but some of that is a backhanded compliment to Fin. Fin is the recognized and respected leader of this team and more is expected of him mentally. To be honest, I really don't think that Fin makes that many mental mistakes, but those that he does make get magnified beyond what they probably should IMO.

On the other hand Dirk does get a lot of extra slack that the other players don't get. Part of that is Dirk's relatively young age, 24. Part of it is that Dirk is the most talented player on the team by almost everyone's account. Does this account for all the difference between the way Fin and Dirk are treated? IMO, no, it doesn't. It does account for a good portion of it though, and IMO the biggest portion.

So what about that other portion? Well there will always be those who are narrow minded and just plain stupid IMO. For them this issue will always be black and white.

Bookit · 02-24-2003, 11:27 PM

Anybody hear of NVE getting fined $20,000 for verbaly abusing an official after the Wizards game? I read it on NBA.com TV and I haven't seen it posted here yet. What was that all about?

LRB · 02-24-2003, 11:27 PM

<< I know which play was more stupid but I don't get how they both weren't stupid. >>

FFM I get what you're saying. Jumping off a 30 ft cliff or jumping off a 50 ft cliff with sharp rocks at the bottom of each is stupid. Sure the jumping off the 50 ft cliff is more stupid, but that doesn't make jumping off the 30 ft cliff smart.

Both Dirk and Fin made stupid mental mistakes. They both took ill advised shots in the closing seconds of a tied game which resulted in the other team unecessarily getting getting a final shot to win the game. We weren't lucky in Fin's game and were lucky in Dirk's game. In both cases we had more than enough time to get a better shot than a 3 pointer. In both cases it would have been better to take no shot than to take the shot taken.

Fin's situation was a little easier for a player to discern the correct choice to make and Fin took his shot with much more time left on the clock. However both shots were stupid mental mistakes.

However, I don't want to get rid of either Fin or Dirk because of these. And let's remember, that SheWebb holds the alltime record for stoopid mental mistakes in clutchtime. Can we all say "Time Out!!!" together please.

Bookit · 02-24-2003, 11:32 PM

Yep, here is the link.

NVE GETS FINED