Shawn Bradley

[Murphy3]

Just a quick question. I heard Nellie on the radio with Norm the other day and they were discussing Shawn Bradley. Nellie was saying that he was about at the end with Bradley unless he showed him more than what they got from him this year. Obviously, we can debate on here all day long about whether or not Nellie just doesn't like to play the guy because of his offensive limitations. I also think that we'd probably come to a rather resounding majority that Bradley should have played many more minutes than what he did this season.

But, that's not necessarily the question that I'm asking. On how many teams in the league would Shawn Bradley not play 15-20+ minutes a night?

Honestly, I can think of just a few. He probably wouldn't get those minues in LA although he would probably get around 10 a night. It's possible that he wouldn't get those minutes in San Antonio, but it would be close. It's possible that he wouldn't get those minutes in Sacramento, but I believe that he would....There might be a couple more..but, what are your thoughts?

[chumdawg]

Murph, do you mean to ask how many he would NOT get those minutes for, and to say that you can just think of a few?

If that's what you mean, then I agree wholeheartedly. I think Bradley could get regular minutes just about anywhere. When you think about it, is there a backup center anywhere who offers more? An absolutely disruptive force coming off the bench. Plus a nifty little set shot, when he gets a chance.

I heard that interview also. Nellie acted bewildered that Shawn couldn't offer more this year. Said he guessed it was because of the knee. That's hard for the fans to understand, when they see Bradley contributing something when he gets in, toward the end of the season at least. My only guess is that he looks terrible in practice or something.

[SeriousSummer]

I think Chumdawg's guess may be on the mark. Bradley has never been known as a hard worker. I'm guessing he barely bothered to try in practice. Nellie is quirky, but he knows basketball and you gotta know he wants win.

[Murphy3]

yeah..sorry about that....it'll be easier to list the ones that he wouldn't play that many minutes for..brain freeze.

[Murphy3]

Originally posted by: SeriousSummer
I think Chumdawg's guess may be on the mark. Bradley has never been known as a hard worker. I'm guessing he barely bothered to try in practice. Nellie is quirky, but he knows basketball and you gotta know he wants win.

The coaches have seemed to be more than happy with Bradley's work ethic the past couple of years.
Yes, Nellie is quirky. It's the quirks that causes him to play just 1 more offensive oriented player instead of using someone that could impact the team on the defensive side of the ball.

[chumdawg]

Someone on this board wrote a little while back that Bradley seems to do well every other year, for whatever reason. Maybe next year will be different.

Perhaps an interesting extension to the original question would be to ask if there are any teams that he would start for, and play say 30 minutes a game.

[grbh]

I heard that as well which is why the Mavas should trade him. If they aren't going to give him any minutes they might as well move him for a player than Nellie will give minutes too.

[Murphy3]

Originally posted by: chumdawg
Someone on this board wrote a little while back that Bradley seems to do well every other year, for whatever reason. Maybe next year will be different.

Perhaps an interesting extension to the original question would be to ask if there are any teams that he would start for, and play say 30 minutes a game.

Bradley was solid lat year when given minutes. Perhaps it's just that every other year, Nellie decides to actually use the only defender on the team that can positively CHANGE the game on that side of the court.

2002-2003, the Mavs came in with a defensive purpose. They decided that they weren't going to be the laughing stock of the NBA that gave up a million layups and dunks to the Kings in the playoffs. So, Bradley and Raef combine to play around 40 minutes a game and the team suddenly becomes a pretty decent defensive club.

But with the Mavs making it to the WCFinals, Nellie and little Nellie were given free reign to make whatever move that they thought was necessary to put the Mavs over the top. Oddly enough, the mavs traded for two offensive oriented players. That gave the Mavs 5 big time offensive threats for Nellie to play with. There was no way in Hell that Nellile was going to consistently give Bradley 20 minutes a night with 5 big time established scoring threats AND with two more heavy minute small guys that developed as the season went along. There was simply no room for the offensive oriented Don Nelson to properly utilize a defensively oriented center.

[SeriousSummer]

I have to agree that if Nellie won't play Shawn, then we should trade him. I think a package of Walker/Bradley (with whomever else) might fetch quite a bit on the open market.

In fact, if you want to play Dirk on the low block, it might be a good idea. If Dirk is playing with Shawn, then the center will come double team Dirk every time. Shawn doesn't catch well and doesn't dunk well, so I don't think he'd be an effective dive cutter, and he doesn't shoot well from the high post (he's much better from the baseline) so I don't think he could make the center double team hurt Dallas's opponents. To pair with Dirk (which is what we should be thinking about) we need a center 1) on offensive who can a) make the fifteen foot jump shot from the high post and b) can dive cut and dunk the ball against the double team; and 2) who on defense can a) be the primary shot blocker and b) compete physically with the strong centers. I don't think that is asking too much. The center doesn't need to have any of his own moves to score, doesn't need more than fifteen foot range and he doesn't need to be more than an adequate rebounder. If he can box out his own man than Dirk will handle the defensive rebounds and Jamison, Howard & Daniels (I'm assuming Walker is gone) will give Dallas an adequate presence on the offensive boards.

Shawn only fills 2b. In fact, I think Dirk may be more of Shawn's problem than people realize. There isn't room on the court for two low post players, and two seven-footers are hard to keep on the court at the same time unless they are both reasonably mobile. Shawn would be better off on a team that features a smaller player (not a power forward) as its primary scorer.

Someone must be available who can fill three--or at least two--of those needs. I don't have a good feel (I doubt anybody not an NBA GM does--and they might not at this point of the year) who is available. But most of the names tossed around (Chandler, Magliore, Ilgauskas, Dampier, etc.) fit with Dirk better than Shawn.

[grndmstr_c]

Walker, not Dirk, was the guy that Bradley didn't play well with. The Mavs were -5 per 48 minutes when Walker and Bradley were on the court together. If you look through Bradley's lineups on 82games the conclusion that Walker, and not Dirk, was the problem is pretty inescapable. For example, here are the lineups from Bradley's Top 10 last season that feature AJ and Dirk in the frontcourt together:
with Nash and Fin: 49 minutes, +24
with Best and Fin: 29 minutes, +18
with Daniels and Fin: 27 minutes, +3
with Nash and JHo: 19 minutes, +10
with Daniels and JHo: 19 minutes, +14

any way you slice it, those are terrific numbers. Dirk and Bradley are compatible.

[SeriousSummer]

Those are impressive numbers, but there is always the question of interpretation. I think the plus/minus difference may be due to a couple or three factors: 1) Walker sucked most of the year; 2) Bradley played only limited minutes so the numbers may be skewed; and 3) Dirk is really good, even playing from further away from the basket.

If you want to play Dirk close to the basket, then I think the Mavs would be better off with a more conventional center--neither a too short player like Walker (or Fortson) or a shot-blocking specialist like Bradley.

I know it's a lot to ask from a Nellie-coached team, but couldn't we go with a 6'10" to 7' guy, who's strong, who can dunk hard, shoot a little bit, and compete on defense?

[ddh33]

Bradley is one of the most interesting people for Mavs fans.

We've all seen Shawn come in to the game and make a great positive impact. He alters shots, shuts down the lane, hits the open jumper, and generally helps the team. Most of us wonder why he can't do that more often? Why doesn't Nellie give him more opportunities?

Personally, I don't think Nellie is trying to sabotage Shawn's career. I don't think he's trying to sabotage this team either. It seems to me that Shawn must not look good in practice. There must be something going on behind the scenes.

But one of the things that interests me is that if Shawn Bradley was so good, why does no one else in the league want him? Why aren't teams lining up to get the best backup center in the league, as some claim? Like I said, it seems to me that there is more here than meets the eye. I just woner what it is.

Like always, I will spend this entire offseason hoping that Shawn is able to make more positive contributions next season. I'll think about all the things he might be able to do to help this team, and then, I'm afraid, I'll see him sit on the bench like always.

I do believe (and this is hard for to say) that Shawn should be available this summer in the right deal. If he's not ever going to be able to fit in with this team the way that the people in charge want, then he should be moved out for someone who might fit better. I would hate that, since I think he can contribute, but I believe Nellie when he says he's at wits end with him.

[grndmstr_c]

I think the plus/minus difference may be due to a couple or three factors: 1) Walker sucked most of the year

Yup, that and he just doesn't fit the team.

2) Bradley played only limited minutes so the numbers may be skewed;

I think it's pretty disturbing that I was only able to find 143 minutes where Bradley shared the front court with AJ and Dirk. There were more, of course, but they just weren't listed because of low minutes - I'd wager the grand total was under 250 for the season. Still, your contention was that Dirk and Bradley couldn't coexist succesfully and, in fact, that Dirk was a significant part of "Shawn's problem". Certainly the sample size was small, and I wouldn't expect these lineups to consistently outscore the opposition by 23 points per 48 minutes, but when the effect is this large, even a small sample size is meaningful.

3) Dirk is really good, even playing from further away from the basket.

Then play Dirk away from the basket when Shawn's out there. If you sent around a petition lobbying for Dirk to play more in the post I'd be first in line to sign it, but that doesn't mean he has to play in the post all the time. Go with what works, and if using Dirk more like a SF on offense is what makes that lineup work, then use Dirk as a SF. Just give me the results, and as the numbers show, there's really no basis for doubting that the AJ, Dirk, Bradley frontcourt can't yield good results.

[chumdawg]

Originally posted by: ddh33
But one of the things that interests me is that if Shawn Bradley was so good, why does no one else in the league want him? Why aren't teams lining up to get the best backup center in the league, as some claim? Like I said, it seems to me that there is more here than meets the eye. I just woner what it is.

Or, it could just be that Nellie has effectively buried him the last few years. What would these numbers get you on today's free agent market, if you weren't named Shawn Bradley:

minutes points rebounds blocks
30........... 12........... 8............. 3.6
31........... 13........... 8............. 3.4
29........... 11........... 8............. 3.3
26........... 9............. 8............. 3.24

That's Bradley from 1996-1999.

[Murphy3]

I honestly don't think it has a damned thing to do with practice. Nellie has more offense the past few years than what he had when he first came to Dallas. What's the result? Bradley, of course, will get less and less playing time because he isn't an impact player on the offensive side.

No, Nellie's not trying to sabotage the team. He's just making a very poor decision. He doesn't have patience for players that aren't significant contributors on the offensive side of the ball. I honestly believe that it's that simple. The more offensive threats you have on the team, the less playing time Bradley will get.

[Simon2]

I myself am puzzled as to why Bradley doesn't get any minutes on this team? Well, I know why. Nellie. Nellie loves small ball. I think the Mavs are just wasting away Bradley's career. I know his salary is good capwise but if they aren't using him, they should trade him or package him to get someone who might help. I'm sure a 7'6 guy can attract a few calls.

[Murphy3]

Originally posted by: Simon2
I myself am puzzled as to why Bradley doesn't get any minutes on this team? Well, I know why. Nellie. Nellie loves small ball. I think the Mavs are just wasting away Bradley's career. I know his salary is good capwise but if they aren't using him, they should trade him or package him to get someone who might help. I'm sure a 7'6 guy can attract a few calls.

I'm sure that MANY other teams would be interested in Shawn Bradley.

[dude1394]

It would seem like they would be but I don't see many folks knocking down the mavs door to get him. I like to think that shawn is a difference maker as much as the next guy, but if he's the great hope or whatever why AREN"T other teams trading with us to get him. His contract is good, he doesn't have a lot of wear and tear.

I'd like to hear what data makes you feel that MANY other teams would be interested other than your fond thoughts for him murph.

[grndmstr_c]

Dude, the only things we see as far as "folks knocking down the door" are what the media gets obsessed with, and you know as well as I do that the media is usually in the dark about the specifics of prospective trades. Not hearing about teams actively pursuing Bradley means nothing with respect to whether teams would be "interested" in him, which is all Murphy's contention was. Personally, while I think it would be moronic to suggest that GM's stay up nights trying to figure out ways to get Bradley from the Mavs, I have no doubt, based on the effect that we all know Bradley has when he gets PT, and based on what other coaches/players say about the effect he has when Nellie gives him PT, that there are plenty of teams around the league that would be very happy to have a guy who can change the game defensively like Bradley on their roster, especially at his salary, which is very reasonable for a big man.

[Murphy3]

I'd like to hear what data makes you feel that MANY other teams would be interested other than your fond thoughts for him murph.

Dude, sometimes you just have to rely on common sense. He's a very reasonably priced center that has consistently proven that he can come in and positively change games on the defensive end. To question whether or not other teams would have interest in him is ridiculous. Just take a look at the centers around the league and their defensive abilities.