More Chandler Decision Discussion can be found here. - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

MavsFTR · 08-10-2012, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nowhereman

It all comes full circle:

Let go of Nash for cap space
Use cap space to sign Dampier
Use Dampier's contract to get Tyson
Trade Tyson for a trade exception, hope for Dwight
Send trade exception to L.A. for Odom
Watch L.A. use trade exception to sign Nash
Watch L.A. trade for Dwight

Cuban should've foreseen this!

JerryWest_44 · 08-12-2012, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nowhereman

It all comes full circle:

Let go of Nash for cap space
Use cap space to sign Dampier
Use Dampier's contract to get Tyson
Trade Tyson for a trade exception, hope for Dwight
Send trade exception to L.A. for Odom
Watch L.A. use trade exception to sign Nash
Watch L.A. trade for Dwight

I just don't understand why Cuban didn't decide to go for a back to back championship run. Cuban's business side got the best of him IMHO.

EricaLubarsky · 08-12-2012, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerryWest_44

I just don't understand why Cuban didn't decide to go for a back to back championship run. Cuban's business side got the best of him IMHO.

...because last year's totally gassed, out-of-shape and one-year-older squad would have totally won a second championship against the improved Heat and Thunder.

..and because its totally worth screwing the financial pooch for the next 3-4 years while we fade into mediocrity.

We flame out in the first/second round last year, this forum would be nothing but depressing. "What do we do next year with only Chandler/marion/Dirk/JJB on the roster, zero trade assets and no cap space?" What do we do when Dirk is gone or a shell of himself and Chandler is taking up a quarter of our capspace (15mill or so)

Murphy3 · 08-12-2012, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

...because last year's totally gassed, out-of-shape and one-year-older squad would have totally won a second championship against the improved Heat and Thunder.

..and because its totally worth screwing the financial pooch for the next 3-4 years while we fade into mediocrity.

We flame out in the first/second round last year, this forum would be nothing but depressing. "What do we do next year with only Chandler/marion/Dirk/JJB on the roster, zero trade assets and no cap space?" What do we do when Dirk is gone or a shell of himself and Chandler is taking up a quarter of our capspace (15mill or so)

Because a flame out was obviously a guarantee. Sounds like an attempt to justify an opinion and nothing more.

BGMaverick9 · 08-12-2012, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Because a flame out was obviously a guarantee. Sounds like an attempt to justify an opinion and nothing more.

I'd suggest it was a lot more likely than them cleaning house and getting another title. The only part that would have been fun of paying those guys to come back is to see them with "swagger." That's about it. Recent history suggests that them defending their title and adding another one to the mantel was highly unlikely.

ibivibiv · 08-10-2012, 04:24 PM

Motion to stop using the word/letters CBA as supporting evidence until a few years from now. Apparently we are the only team who cares about it this year. Just about everyone else of consequence is still spending like there is no tomorrow. I am curious to see if it really ends up hurting those teams or if this new CBA just further limited who can overspend to those mega teams that can afford the super tax and will attract big names always.

BGMaverick9 · 08-10-2012, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibivibiv

Motion to stop using the word/letters CBA as supporting evidence until a few years from now. Apparently we are the only team who cares about it this year. Just about everyone else of consequence is still spending like there is no tomorrow. I am curious to see if it really ends up hurting those teams or if this new CBA just further limited who can overspend to those mega teams that can afford the super tax and will attract big names always.

Specific teams such as the Knicks and Bulls would disagree with your notion that the Mavericks are the only team who cares.

ibivibiv · 08-10-2012, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Specific teams such as the Knicks and Bulls would disagree with your notion that the Mavericks are the only team who cares.

Huh, I missed the headlines saying those 2 teams were only signing one year deals to "keep their powder dry". I think NY passing on Lin would have happened regardless of what CBA was in place. That deal Houston threw at him was crazy considering no one has seen Lin play in a playoff series yet.

BGMaverick9 · 08-10-2012, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibivibiv

Huh, I missed the headlines saying those 2 teams were only signing one year deals to "keep their powder dry". I think NY passing on Lin would have happened regardless of what CBA was in place. That deal Houston threw at him was crazy considering no one has seen Lin play in a playoff series yet.

That's not what you originally said.

ibivibiv · 08-10-2012, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

That's not what you originally said.

Fair enough, but it's related in my view. All we have seen is hyper conservative 1 year deals and some clever bargain shopping. I think it is fair to say that Cuban/Nellie et al may have jumped the gun in their fear of this new CBA. I mean unless they are the lone geniuses in the league and these other teams are all just being stupid crazy. I am a big fan of looking at a large sample set and so far, it looks like we are a bit of an outlier in this "fear the new CBA" strategy. I think what Cuban has done for the team overall throughout the years has been awesome and wouldn't trade him for any other owner, but honestly don't you think he might have overestimated the league's owners initial reaction to this new CBA? I get the impression our FO thought no one would be spending this year. It looks like that is not the case just yet.

LonghornDub · 08-11-2012, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibivibiv

That deal Houston threw at him was crazy considering no one has seen Lin play in a playoff series yet.

The new CBA is what allowed Houston to throw that deal at him......

chumdawg · 08-11-2012, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

The new CBA is what allowed Houston to throw that deal at him......

It's not what allowed them to offer that deal. It's what gave that deal teeth.

Kidd Karma · 08-10-2012, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibivibiv

Motion to stop using the word/letters CBA as supporting evidence until a few years from now. Apparently we are the only team who cares about it this year. Just about everyone else of consequence is still spending like there is no tomorrow. I am curious to see if it really ends up hurting those teams or if this new CBA just further limited who can overspend to those mega teams that can afford the super tax and will attract big names always.

True other teams are locking themselves up 3 seasons from now(Knicks with Kidd and Camby), around when the stringent taxes hit as well as the exceptions start to disappear if over the lux tax. The sign and trade option also disappears when over this threshold. Mavs are just waiting to buy low when the time comes. I mean we got an OJ Mayo dropped into our laps when 4-24 were tossed around his camp. Who knows what happens when teams start to get handicapped because of the lux tax rules. Seems to me Cuban's more afraid of the handicaps that limit player movement, loss of MLE, loss of sign and trades, than he is of the lux tax.

nowhereman · 08-10-2012, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibivibiv

Motion to stop using the word/letters CBA as supporting evidence until a few years from now. Apparently we are the only team who cares about it this year. Just about everyone else of consequence is still spending like there is no tomorrow. I am curious to see if it really ends up hurting those teams or if this new CBA just further limited who can overspend to those mega teams that can afford the super tax and will attract big names always.

Second.

chumdawg · 08-11-2012, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibivibiv

Motion to stop using the word/letters CBA as supporting evidence until a few years from now. Apparently we are the only team who cares about it this year. Just about everyone else of consequence is still spending like there is no tomorrow. I am curious to see if it really ends up hurting those teams or if this new CBA just further limited who can overspend to those mega teams that can afford the super tax and will attract big names always.

You know, you make an interesting point. Our own Mavs, among others, have proven how quickly you can get out of "cap hell" if you want to. It's not like these big-spending teams are ceding their flexibility forever. It's more like they are pushing their chips in.

EricaLubarsky · 08-10-2012, 07:54 PM

Yeah, y'know 'cuz Chandler/Dirk/Marion/??/Barea would not only win a championship against the Heat, Lakers and Thunder but it would also have tons of flexibility.

I'd much rather be a 4th seed with financial flexibility and hopes for the future than being in cap hell and still being a 4th seed.

MavsFTR · 08-10-2012, 10:24 PM

Life is too uncertain to have regrets. For all we know this may have been the best thing that ever happened to us.

chumdawg · 08-11-2012, 02:00 PM

Why wouldn't they do it under the old CBA?

LonghornDub · 08-11-2012, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Why wouldn't they do it under the old CBA?

..for the reason I just stated.

chumdawg · 08-11-2012, 02:28 PM

I'm not talking about the backloading. I'm talking about the total dollars. Or at least, that's what ibivibiv was talking about. And in terms of the total dollars, if they would do it under this CBA then I see no reason why they wouldn't do it under the old one. What, are you working on an assumption that they don't think they will ultimately have to pay the backloaded years?

howdoesmydirktaste · 08-11-2012, 02:49 PM

Dwight was never going to come here. I don't think Dwight Howard or Deron Williams will ever have a playoff run in them like Dirk did in 2011. With that said, whether we got them or not would have never topped sitting back and enjoying what Dirk did in 2011. So we didn't get them. Oh well, neither did 30 other teams.

Cuban has made some mistakes, but most of the other owners in the NBA have made bigger mistakes.
2011 taught me that no front office, sports writer or jackass on a forum really knows 100% what they're talking about.

The NBA wants the Lakers to be good. They have never, and will never, care about the Mavericks.

oilfieldtrash · 08-11-2012, 04:54 PM

20 years from now we'll be telling stories to the youngsters about the mythical Chandler. He was 8 foot talk with legs like tree trunks and how he carried the Mavs to the ring. And how with him alone that meant at least 3 rings.

dude1394 · 08-11-2012, 08:11 PM

And could shoot fire from his arse!

chumdawg · 08-12-2012, 09:17 PM

Listen...I'm excited as hell for this next coming season. More excited than I've been in a long time.

But...you are absolutely fooling yourself if you think history is going to look back and say anything besides that we got down on our knees and apologized for winning that championship.

grndmstr_c · 08-12-2012, 09:41 PM

What exactly did Ian do in 10/11 that is supposed to have maxed out his value? Was 8.7 mostly garbage time minutes per game in only 56 games (in a full season), and spending a decent chunk of the season behind Ajinca on the depth chart really enough to increase his value all the way up to 16+ million from the verifiably low level that it was at in the summer 2010? I don't buy it.

Murphy3 · 08-13-2012, 09:53 AM

Yes, they do... I understand that. However, they have to worry about more than Dirk's prime AND they also have to try to put their team in the best place to win a championship.

I completely understand what the front office is doing. The question isn't "what are they doing and why are they doing it".. it's "did they go about it in the right way".

There is obviously a legitimate debate as to whether or not they did. It's not a cut and dry "yes" or "no" proposition as some of you would like to believe. The front office might have very well made the wrong decision.. The insistance that the front office did not and that you're an idiot if you believe otherwise has gone a long way to perpetuate this argument at d-m.com.

As I've said several times on here, I don't know what the right answer was/is. But I'm at least willing to listen to both sides instead of making a complete ass out of myself

LonghornDub · 08-13-2012, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Yes, they do... I understand that. However, they have to worry about more than Dirk's prime AND they also have to try to put their team in the best place to win a championship.

Correct, but contrary to what some would imply, winning another championship can happen after Dirk's prime with the right moves and the right fortuity. The front office can't simply assume--as some folks would apparently have them do--that the Mavs' championship window is closed for a long time once Dirk slips.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

I completely understand what the front office is doing. The question isn't "what are they doing and why are they doing it".. it's "did they go about it in the right way".

I agree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

There is obviously a legitimate debate as to whether or not they did. It's not a cut and dry "yes" or "no" proposition as some of you would like to believe. The front office might have very well made the wrong decision.. The insistance that the front office did not and that you're an idiot if you believe otherwise has gone a long way to perpetuate this argument at d-m.com.

Hey, you don't have to tell me this. This is how I think about pretty much everything

That said, there is a clear difference between disagreeing with someone's ultimate opinion on an issue and calling him an idiot, versus recognizing that he's offered objectively poor reasons in support. There's some of the former going on, but there's also plenty of the latter being mistaken for the former.

BGMaverick9 · 08-13-2012, 08:10 PM

Kidd is still likely going to be the backup point guard for the Knicks, so it's not a given he'll get as much action with Chandler as you think he may get. If he's getting a lot of minutes, the Knicks are in big trouble and Kidd is liable to break down.

I'm guessing Chandler screens wouldn't have done much for Kidd because he didn't want to push towards the rim and he was pretty rough when he actually tried to finish at the rim. Defenders would know Kidd doesn't want to go to the rim so they could alter their coverage and still protect against Chandler.

Kidd's problems mainly fell in line with sporadic shooting, a natural drop in the ability to man up bigger guards for long periods of time, health and a highly unusual drop in basketball IQ.

spreedom · 08-13-2012, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Kidd is still likely going to be the backup point guard for the Knicks, so it's not a given he'll get as much action with Chandler as you think he may get. If he's getting a lot of minutes, the Knicks are in big trouble and Kidd is liable to break down.

I'm guessing Chandler screens wouldn't have done much for Kidd because he didn't want to push towards the rim and he was pretty rough when he actually tried to finish at the rim. Defenders would know Kidd doesn't want to go to the rim so they could alter their coverage and still protect against Chandler.

Kidd's problems mainly fell in line with sporadic shooting, a natural drop in the ability to man up bigger guards for long periods of time, health and a highly unusual drop in basketball IQ.

Man, the Knicks must really suck if they're counting on Raymond Felton accomplishing anything other than finishing the leftovers...

Bayliss · 08-14-2012, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Man, the Knicks must really suck if they're counting on Raymond Felton accomplishing anything other than finishing the leftovers.

6.2/5.5 on 36% shooting
11.4/6.5 on 41% shooting

That PG duo is terrible. Kidd only drives into the paint when he has a few tequila shots in him, and the results aren't pretty. And the only thing Felton wiggles his way through is the buffet line.

LonghornDub · 08-15-2012, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayliss

That PG duo is terrible. Kidd only drives into the paint when he has a few tequila shots in him

I assume you mean the paint coating the local Hamptons cable pole.

mac222b · 08-16-2012, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

I assume you mean the paint coating the local Hamptons cable pole.

Nicely done

saclare · 08-16-2012, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

I assume you mean the paint coating the local Hamptons cable pole.

saclare · 08-14-2012, 04:19 PM

Bringing back the '11 championship team doesn't even get them to the WCF last year. Arguable they even get out of the first round, but that would depend on seeding. The Spurs, Clippers, Thunder and Lakers all got better (maybe even Nuggets).

Nothing is "knowable" when talking about bringing back the championship team, but I'm pretty damn confident in the above statements.

It's not even a thing of hindsight anymore. That team would simply get beat by at least 4 western conference teams this last year. ESPECIALLY in a lockout year.

dude1394 · 08-14-2012, 09:16 PM

Wonder how many one and done seasons we have to have before some folks change their mind? I expect 9/11 times a million.

Thomas86 · 10-14-2012, 12:51 AM

Quote:

“He never called to thank me for helping his team win the title, or wish me luck, after I decided to sign here,’’ Knicks center Tyson Chandler said the other night in Washington, after the preseason opener. “I thought he would call me, but he never did.”

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ba...sEnabled=false

Chandler is all the way in New York and still has the Mavs on his mind...