Dallas/Orlando Trade

[grbh]

Walker for Hill and Number 1

Why Dallas does it: It gives you a guaranteed top 5 pick and a possible 1 or 2. If they get a little luckyu and get Okafur then he is your new Center. I know I know it isn't his natural position, but I think he can play it. If you don't get Okafur there are a few other fairly interesting big men, but drafting them in the top 5 is likely to be a stretch outside of Howard who is likely a project.



Why Orlando does it: They can finally get out from under that Grant Hill contract and be almost 25MM under the cap next season.

Dallas:
PG: Nash/FA/Daniels
SG: Fin/Daniels
SF: Jamison/Howard
PF: Dirk/Okafur
C: Okafur/Bradley/FA

[SeriousSummer]

I think Orlando might actually go for this--they've already got Gooden. Dallas might have to sweeten the pot a little though (Bradley or Howard would be enough to get it done).

But I don't want to do it unless Dallas then moves the number one for some player and a lower-level pick. I've had it with stockpiling power forwards, and I don't see a center or a guard worth using the No. 1 pick on. Instead, pick up a guard and draft a project big man--or vice versa. Just no more natural forwards.

[dirno2000]

I looks good from an ownership standpoint. I just don't know how the Magic could sell it to their beleaguered fan base. Even in a weak draft, the no.1 pick gives the fans hope that they can land a franchise player. You can’t pacify Magic fans with future cap room...they had that before and look where it got them.

[FilthyFinMavs]

I think Jamison would look more appealing to the Magic then Walker. The Magic finally get that 2nd REAL scorer they hoped for in Grant or in T-MAC for that matter.

[Stressboy]

If I'm Orlando, I only do this for Walker and if I'm Dallas, I don't do it for anything more than Walker and taking on Hills contract and that it is #1. Dwight Howard is going to be a great player, but we can't wait, unless Cuban is looking long term. Danials/Howard/Howard would lengthen our run for more years where as right now, it is about 6 if Dirks ankles hold up. Okafur would make it 8, so I guess you gamble either way.

If Okafur is a 15pt/12brd/2.5blk guy but Howard is a 10pt/10brd/1.5blk guy for the first 2 years with each one slowing going up in boards and points, would it be worth it to take Howard?

Stressboy

[kg_veteran]

Originally posted by: Stressboy
If I'm Orlando, I only do this for Walker and if I'm Dallas, I don't do it for anything more than Walker and taking on Hills contract and that it is #1. Dwight Howard is going to be a great player, but we can't wait, unless Cuban is looking long term. Danials/Howard/Howard would lengthen our run for more years where as right now, it is about 6 if Dirks ankles hold up. Okafur would make it 8, so I guess you gamble either way.

If Okafur is a 15pt/12brd/2.5blk guy but Howard is a 10pt/10brd/1.5blk guy for the first 2 years with each one slowing going up in boards and points, would it be worth it to take Howard?

Stressboy

I think the only way you DON'T pick Okafor is if you take the No. 1 pick and turn around and trade it with a player to the Clips for Brand and their lottery pick, which you would then use to acquire either the young Sabonis pupil or perhaps a point guard of the future (Livingston, Harris, Nelson).

[kg_veteran]

Here's just an example of a scenario that would work, for talking purposes:

Trade Walker for Hill and the No. 1 pick.

Trade Jamison/No. 1 pick to LAC for Brand/their lottery pick.

Draft Jameer Nelson.

New roster:

C - Brand, Bradley, Fortson
PF - Nowitzki, Najera
SF - Howard, ???, Hill
SG - Finley, Daniels
PG - Nash, Nelson

VS.

New roster if you only make the first trade:

C - Okafor, Bradley, Fortson
PF - Nowitzki, Najera
SF - Jamison, Howard, Hill
SG - Finley, Daniels
PG - Nash

[dalmations202]

Who's the better defender, Brand or Okafor?

[ddh33]

I would love to do this trade with Orlando. I think Okafor is going to be great in this league. But surely the Magic do too? It's like someone else said, Okafor is the great hope from this draft. He could pacify Magic fans and help them win games right now all at the same time. If Orlando has an opportunity to draft him, I don't see how they pass him up - even with the Mavs offering to take Hill's contract.

Here's another problem with this idea. This trade would also give Orlando one more PF. They already have too many. Dallas might need to take back either Juwan Howard or Drew Gooden. I suppose Orlando may have a plan to move one of them out for a center in a different deal (Olowakandi?).

But wouldn't Orlando ask for one of the young kids too?

Like I said, I hope beyond hope that Dallas is able to get Okafor. He would be fantastic here. I just don't hardly see how it's possible without giving up a ton.

Now then, this deal becomes much more possible if Orlando can't draft Okafor. For instance, the Mavs might have a much easier time moving Walker for Hill and the pick if the pick is #3-5. The Mavs could still get someone to help like Perovic, Padkolzine, or whoever else is available (I haven't looked at this draft too much yet). But again, they might need to help alleviate Orlando's PF logjam.

[kg_veteran]

Originally posted by: ddh33
Here's another problem with this idea. This trade would also give Orlando one more PF. They already have too many. Dallas might need to take back either Juwan Howard or Drew Gooden. I suppose Orlando may have a plan to move one of them out for a center in a different deal (Olowakandi?).

I'm sure Orlando plans to try and deal either Howard or Gooden whether or not this deal is consummated. But they would probably play Walker alongside Howard or Gooden at the other forward spot and then be happy when the big salary came off the books.

Heck, with Walker and McGrady, they might even make the playoffs in the East next year.

[aexchange]

don't know if this deal works cap wise, and frankly i'm too lazy to look it up.

dallas trades: finley, walker, josh howard, fortson

orlando trades: mcgrady, hill, juwan howard, #1 pick

dallas does the deal to get more athletic and gets the perfect point forward to spell nash for 15-20 min a game. (assuming hill can ever play again).

orlando does the deal to get walker off the books in a year. they get a nice replacement for mcgrady and young talent they can plug in at the 3 spot. fortson for howard gets done b/c they want to shave cap money off.

what does everyone think?

[dalmations202]

Originally posted by: aexchange
don't know if this deal works cap wise, and frankly i'm too lazy to look it up.

dallas trades: finley, walker, josh howard, fortson

orlando trades: mcgrady, hill, juwan howard, #1 pick

dallas does the deal to get more athletic and gets the perfect point forward to spell nash for 15-20 min a game. (assuming hill can ever play again).

orlando does the deal to get walker off the books in a year. they get a nice replacement for mcgrady and young talent they can plug in at the 3 spot. fortson for howard gets done b/c they want to shave cap money off.

what does everyone think?

I don't think Orlando gives up both the #1 and McGrady. I think they will either use the #1 to get Okafor, and then try to use McGrady to build around Okafor, or use the #1 in trade to build around McGrady. I cannot fathom why they would give up both this offseason.

Now from a Dallas perspective....get this done now. I like the idea.

[aexchange]

Originally posted by: dalmations202

I don't think Orlando gives up both the #1 and McGrady. I think they will either use the #1 to get Okafor, and then try to use McGrady to build around Okafor, or use the #1 in trade to build around McGrady. I cannot fathom why they would give up both this offseason.

Now from a Dallas perspective....get this done now. I like the idea.

this all assumes that mcgrady carries thru with his demand for a trade.

[kg_veteran]

Originally posted by: aexchange
don't know if this deal works cap wise, and frankly i'm too lazy to look it up.

dallas trades: finley, walker, josh howard, fortson

orlando trades: mcgrady, hill, juwan howard, #1 pick

dallas does the deal to get more athletic and gets the perfect point forward to spell nash for 15-20 min a game. (assuming hill can ever play again).

orlando does the deal to get walker off the books in a year. they get a nice replacement for mcgrady and young talent they can plug in at the 3 spot. fortson for howard gets done b/c they want to shave cap money off.

what does everyone think?

The ONLY reason they'd look to deal the No. 1 pick in the first place is so that they can get under the cap and attract FAs to play WITH McGrady. They'd tar and feather Weisbrod if this was his first move.

Of course, if you're the Mavs, you do the deal immediately and sort out the pieces later. A core of Dirk, McGrady, and Okafor would be unstoppable once you got the other pieces to compliment them.

[aexchange]

Originally posted by: aexchange
don't know if this deal works cap wise, and frankly i'm too lazy to look it up.

dallas trades: finley, walker, josh howard, fortson

orlando trades: mcgrady, hill, juwan howard, #1 pick

dallas does the deal to get more athletic and gets the perfect point forward to spell nash for 15-20 min a game. (assuming hill can ever play again).

orlando does the deal to get walker off the books in a year. they get a nice replacement for mcgrady and young talent they can plug in at the 3 spot. fortson for howard gets done b/c they want to shave cap money off.

what does everyone think?

would orlando do the deal if you threw in nash? with a mcgrady/jamison/dirk/okafore lineup, you can plug in travis best at PG and still be explosive. would dallas do the deal? things to ponder...

[kg_veteran]

That's a lot to ponder, but Nash can't be thrown in unless he agrees, since he'd have to sign and then be traded.

Now, if Nash wanted to go to Toronto, you could work out some pretty interesting three-way scenarios. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

[dalmations202]

would orlando do the deal if you threw in nash? with a mcgrady/jamison/dirk/okafore lineup, you can plug in travis best at PG and still be explosive. would dallas do the deal? things to ponder...

I don't know if Dallas would, but IMO yes and as quick as they could say "done".
Daniels, NVE, Armstrong, or any other PG could play with a lineup of McGrady, Jamison, Dirk, Okafor. Heck, I might even start Stefansson.

[Stressboy]

KG,

Unless there is a 3 way with someone pining for Jamison, I don't think the clips take on his salary just to get number 1. You might get them to do it for a combo of:

Fortson/Delk(or Bradely)/Najera/#1 for Brand/#5

That would give them a lot of smaller decent contracts to surround Okafur and Magette, not to mention that Najera would sell big in LA. If they don't want any long term contracts(3-4 years), I don't think we can get it done. They might do the deal for Walker/#2 or #4 if you trade with Chicago or Charlotte with Fin or Jamison.


Another option is to trade for #1 with Walker and then do a small deal with Chicago. Delk/#1 for Chandler/#2 or you try to really get what you want from Chicago by trading them Fin/Delk/#1 for A Davis/Chandler/Hinrich/#2. I know they don't want to give up Hinrich, but to dump Davis salary, secure Okafur and get an real vetren leader, I think they would really have to think about it. They could keep Chandler and trade Curry if they thought the lineup would be better.

Then we would have our center spot, and backup PG taken care of and still have the #2 pick. If we wanted to try and work a deal for Brand we can, but they would have to take on some small, but 3-4 year contracts to get it done, but lets say they would. Najera/Bradley/Fortson/#2 for Brand/#5.

Nash/Hinrich/Stefansson(IR)
Danials/#5 (I like Josh Smith here)/Hill(IR)
Jamison/J. Howard/TAW(IR)
Dirk/Chandler
Brand/A. Davis

I guess the moral of the story is that if you get #1 for Walker and Hill, you are sitting in the drivers seat to do a lot.

Stressboy

[kg_veteran]

Originally posted by: Stressboy
I guess the moral of the story is that if you get #1 for Walker and Hill, you are sitting in the drivers seat to do a lot.

Stressboy

Agreed.

[dalmations202]

There are just too many things that could go wrong for me to ever believe that this could happen. But what a dream.

Could they trade the #5 and say TAW for say Brent Barry? Reason: They like the #5 pick, and 80% of TAW's contract is paid by insurance. Brent Barry can knock down the 3, and run the offense (get rid of TAW contract)..........Wow would that be a nightmare to match against.

Nash/Hinrich/Stefansson(IR)
Daniels/Brent Barry/Hill(IR)
Jamison/J. Howard
Brand/Chandler
Dirk/A. Davis/Ostertag

I think this is how the lineup ends up, but Brand plays the best offensive Big, and Dirk on the other. Then if you could figure out how to sign Ostertag......Ouch

[MightyToine]

Originally posted by: kg_veteran

I'm sure Orlando plans to try and deal either Howard or Gooden whether or not this deal is consummated. But they would probably play Walker alongside Howard or Gooden at the other forward spot and then be happy when the big salary came off the books.

Heck, with Walker and McGrady, they might even make the playoffs in the East next year.

Walker and Pierce

Walker and McGrady


Same difference(except T-mac is better), SAME RESULT(which is PLAYOFFS, BABY!)


[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

[rakesh.s]

terrible trade if they are going to draft okafor

okafor is just another overrated player coming into the nba..he's like 6'7, with the program listing him at 6'9....you're basically wasting another pick on the second coming of najera

if they pick up a REAL, physical 7 footer, then the trade is worth it..but bringing in guys that are 6'7,6'8,6'9 and then playing them at center and benching a 7'6 guy is just stupidity

[giantbenmav]

I like the trade for the #1.....because Okafor has what this team needs....he plays defense, he can run the floor, good low post game.....may be a little small for the 5 (I doubt he is 6'7") at 6'9"........but he makes up for it with athleticism..........with Okafor there would be only a handful of centers that could take him (Shaq, Duncan, Yao) but frankly those guys make everyone look bad.....

do we have a first round pick this year, if we do are they not asking for it?

#1 and Hill for Walker....I VOTE YES

[grndmstr_c]

We don't have a first round pick this year. The C's got it.

[giantbenmav]

bummer, thanks

[Just211]

i do this trade simply because Hill would do more in 15 min a game than Walker could do all game..

and thats even if Hill misses most of the season.


I believe Hill could stay healthy if he was sparingly worked into minutes. ANd i'd love so see him put in a Reggie Miller situation (if healthy) .
And if he is truly injured again, then eventually he would be an expiring contract. BUt to get a #1 for Walker, you do it

[kg_veteran]

you're basically wasting another pick on the second coming of najera

Wow.

I'll be happy to wager with you on this if you like.

[giantbenmav]

Emeka Okafor's game is nothing like Najera's.......Okafor actually has talent, najera is just so darn of a hard worker......Okafor is a hard - worker with talent......I could see him ending up with a career similar to Kenyon Martin's.....slow start (just being a good player) and then after a few years really being able to do some serious damage.......just not as flamboyant or infammatory as KMart......

I am all for Okafor....he is going to be a good player in this league......he is going to come in as a good defender with decent offensive talent....but he could develop into a pretty good offensive force, because he is SO smart, and a very hard worker.....he provides what we need

[MightyToine]

Originally posted by: Just211
i do this trade simply because Hill would do more in 15 min a game than Walker could do all game..

and thats even if Hill misses most of the season.

You, my friend, are as clueless as Stevie_Franchise. Hill would re-injure his Ankle in 15 minutes....... [img]i/expressions/rolleye.gif[/img]

I believe Hill could stay healthy if he was sparingly worked into minutes. ANd i'd love so see him put in a Reggie Miller situation (if healthy) .

What you believe and what *will* happen are two different things. For all we know, Hill could step onto the court and get injured again after 5 minutes of playing time. And please DON'T compare Reggie Miller's situation with Hill's. REggie can still go and is clutch....Hill can not.

And if he is truly injured again, then eventually he would be an expiring contract. BUt to get a #1 for Walker, you do it

DUH.

[Just211]

i was being slightly sacrcastic, but i do believe Hill can make a comeback. And I didn't mean to dump on Walker, but I can't help it, he sucks as a Mav. He might be decent somewhere else, but he SUCKED in Dallas.

[LRB]

I'd do the trade in a heart beat. And in Orlando Walker might actually be of some use. And just imagine if by some miracle Hill came back anywhere in the general neighborhood of his former self. It would be the steal of the century.

[MightyToine]

Originally posted by: LRB
I'd do the trade in a heart beat. And in Orlando Walker might actually be of some use. And just imagine if by some miracle Hill came back anywhere in the general neighborhood of his former self. It would be the steal of the century.

And just imagine if the Mavs could trade dirk For Shaq, Nash for Kobe, Fin for Malone..... [img]i/expressions/rolleye.gif[/img]

[mavs413]

Originally posted by: MightyToine

And just imagine if the Mavs could trade dirk For Shaq, Nash for Kobe, Fin for Malone..... [img]i/expressions/rolleye.gif[/img]

And just imagine if MightyToine could write something un-sarcastic, or not about Antoine Walker.

[MightyToine]

Originally posted by: mavs413

And just imagine if MightyToine could write something un-sarcastic, or not about Antoine Walker.

And just imagine that this whole thread was just imagined.

[sike]

if its on the table...do the deal!

[Drbio]

We need an ignore feature for the pathologically moronic.

[dude1394]

I'd do it in a nyminute. But orlando would be an idiot to do it. They've already suffered through the horrible season. If they get the number 1 pick with mcgrady they can wait until hill comes off the books for a free agent. I also think being under the cap is over-rated, the only way to really re-build in a bad market is to strip it clean and hope for draft picks to hit. But they already have their franchise player.

[MightyToine]

Originally posted by: Drbio
We need an ignore feature for the pathologically moronic.

I agree.....Drbio. *smirks*

[Poindexter Einstein]

Re: Walker for Hill and Number 1


Analysis: (1) I prefer Walker goes to Chi to net Chandler-Davis. (2) I dont want Hill's contract. (3) I think the Chi trade would help at C better than the #1 of Orlando would.

So I dont like this deal.