Mavs off-season and draft 2023 thread - Page 5 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

saclare · 04-11-2023, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tap2390

My heart prays Kyrie stays, my head says there's a sleeper destination for Kyrie....

If Suns renounce Paul and trade Ayton into cap space this offseason they have enough to sign Kyrie outright.

Sign and trade Ayton to Mavs? I think that would be the path for the Suns.

EricaLubarsky · 04-11-2023, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saclare

Sign and trade Ayton to Mavs? I think that would be the path for the Suns.

Sign and trade whom? Ayton is on a 4/132mill contract that goes through 2025-2026

Kyrie? Suns are probably looking to replace CP, but not sure Durant still wants to play with Kyrie

saclare · 04-11-2023, 09:46 AM

Wayyyyyy out on Gobert. That might go down as the worst trade in NBA history unless you count Traylor for Nowitzki.

saclare · 04-11-2023, 11:53 AM

Iztok with a good one: https://www.dmagazine.com/sports/202...ith-the-times/

Love the highlight of Luka and his defense. I think there's so much more there given his size and bball IQ, he could be more than average on defense. Less complaining with the refs and getting back. Re-signing Kyrie and having him from the jump to lower the need for high usage on the offensive end should lend plenty of opportunities for Doncic to insert himself on defense.

DevinHarriswillstart · 04-11-2023, 12:59 PM

What's funny is Ayton is really isn't much better than Wood. It's definitely not going to change much on the defensive front. And you lose the 3 point shooting.

But we need a center so badly that I'm open to a lot of possibilities. Anything that ensures Powell doesn't ever start again is something I'm for.

EricaLubarsky · 04-11-2023, 01:28 PM

I think the comparison between Wood and Ayton is a decent one. Their stats certainly look similar from a distance.

Rebounding - Ayton is better but only by about 4-5% on contested rebounds, etc. Wood was also asked to be five-out a lot which might have hurt Wood's numbers.

Defense - this one is clear and decisive. Ayton plays within a fairly tight team defense. He is a top-15 defensive anchor. Wood is a good player but he's just never been coached to be a defensive anchor. I understand why-- he rotates between PF and C and he's been on so many teams he's never developed a team defense. The biggest problem other than rebounding was help defense and Wood was statistically one of the worst.

3pt shooting - if Ayton would get the same role here, he is a much inferior 3pt shooter (30% vs. 37%)

SMC0007 · 04-11-2023, 01:44 PM

I'm 100% out on Gobert if we have the same coach. 75% out with any coach.

Out on Ayton too. If we can't find a better deal for center we have a problem. 30m+ for a slight upgrade from Wood? M'out on it.

sig · 04-11-2023, 04:43 PM

Well it seems Atlants is going to be making a few moves and might even entertain moving Trae. They are already paying him, collins, Capela, Hunter starting next season while Murray, Bey, Okungwu, will up for new deals soon. They proabbly want o move out sme of that longterm salary for picks.

Even if KI stays, i'm chasing Okungwu and one of their forwards. Prefer Hunter over Collins and would part with this years draft pick and the 27 pick for Hunter and Okongwu. Mavs have role players with salary to match. Atlanta has more forwards waiting in wing like Johnson and Griffin so they are really deep in frontcourt.

If Kyrie wants to go to suns, how about ayton to Atlanta and Trae to Dallas. I'm not really a Trae fan and would much prefer KI but if he doesn't be here then that changes things. Get Okungwu in the deal. I really like that player.

I also really like ayton and if Mavs recoup some picks would not mind him a deal for KI
especially if Hardy were a bit more established as a big time scorer rather than just being a promising prospect who looks capable of becoming 25 ppg player. Mavs got a steal with Hardy who coming out of HS was ranked in some rankings higher than Scoot Henderson. Sill prefer KI over any of Trae or Ayton.

Dallas41 · 04-11-2023, 05:58 PM

Seems like kidd wasn't the only guy with an issue regarding Wood

Nico seemed to be onboard doing the exit interview

Nico didn't sound like he was a fine of Wood's style of play

Which begs the question if they had doubts about his overall game Why the hell did they waist a 1st round pick obtaining him.

Dude had all the same red flags before the trade and you still pulled the trigger

DevinHarriswillstart · 04-11-2023, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dallas41

Seems like kidd wasn't the only guy with an issue regarding Wood

Nico seemed to be onboard doing the exit interview

Nico didn't sound like he was a fine of Wood's style of play

Which begs the question if they had doubts about his overall game Why the hell did they waist a 1st round pick obtaining him.

Dude had all the same red flags before the trade and you still pulled the trigger

So Nico's direct criticism was that Wood was an efficient scorer but there is more to the NBA than that.

Uhh, actually being an efficient scorer exactly what you should be in today's league.

All Nico had to do was say that we needed more defense from the position. But our FO constantly says and does stupid things.

Meanwhile, Bullock takes half the season off and not a peep.

At least Nico said DFS didn't help our defense, so there is that.

FreshJive · 04-11-2023, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

At least Nico said DFS didn't help our defense, so there is that.

He didn?t say that. Not even close.

EricaLubarsky · 04-11-2023, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dallas41

Seems like kidd wasn't the only guy with an issue regarding Wood

Nico seemed to be onboard doing the exit interview

Nico didn't sound like he was a fine of Wood's style of play

Which begs the question if they had doubts about his overall game Why the hell did they waist a 1st round pick obtaining him.

Dude had all the same red flags before the trade and you still pulled the trigger

I think we got him because he was worth the risk, red flags and all. It's not like we gave up much

Pick? Wendell Moore who is likely out of the league after his contract. He's getting DNPs and hasn't been improving.

Players? Boban is the only one still in the league, right? Even that is because he's a good person and not an effective player.

Essentially gave up nothing for him.

SMC0007 · 04-11-2023, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I think we got him because he was worth the risk, red flags and all. It's not like we gave up much

Pick? Wendell Moore who is likely out of the league after his contract. He's getting DNPs and hasn't been improving.

Players? Boban is the only one still in the league, right? Even that is because he's a good person and not an effective player.

Essentially gave up nothing for him.

That's one way to look at it.

He was a wasted asset in hand. Move him for...something, perhaps. How long did it take to realize they weren't going to use him because of said red flags? They didn't start him until they had to from injuries.
Lose JB for nothing, add C Wood, lose him for nothing.

EricaLubarsky · 04-11-2023, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

That's one way to look at it.

He was a wasted asset in hand. Move him for...something, perhaps. How long did it take to realize they weren't going to use him because of said red flags? They didn't start him until they had to from injuries.
Lose JB for nothing, add C Wood, lose him for nothing.

I am 100% not defending getting a piece and then letting it slip away

Even thought we didn't give up much in the scheme of things, we continue to absolutely suck at developing assets or at least getting something for our assets.

saclare · 04-12-2023, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

That's one way to look at it.

He was a wasted asset in hand. Move him for...something, perhaps. How long did it take to realize they weren't going to use him because of said red flags? They didn't start him until they had to from injuries.
Lose JB for nothing, add C Wood, lose him for nothing.

Bingo. I'd argue it's simply a wasted asset because who is to say the Mavs make the pick? They could have easily used it in a more beneficial trade. That's waste.

EricaLubarsky · 04-12-2023, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saclare

Bingo. I'd argue it's simply a wasted asset because who is to say the Mavs make the pick? They could have easily used it in a more beneficial trade. That's waste.

It's really easy in hindsight, though. I'm not sure at the time it was as easy. We are devoid of talent. We needed talent. We saw a potential star for a low first-rounder that ended up being a bust. Could we have drafted better or gotten more with that? It's hard to tell.

It does sound like after we realized he wasn't going to be that guy, we tried to get something-- anything -- for him at the TDL and no one wanted him. I assume that means that we will be unable to get any value in a SnT.

But yeah, we traded something (even if it was a small something) for a lottery ticket that wasn't a winner and then we haven't been able to flip that losing lottery ticket into something else so we ended up down assets-- which wouldn't be the worst, but we have a huge history of wasting assets. The real crime isn't Wood-- it's the laundry list of times we have given up talent or assets for nothing.

Drafted Brunson, let him walk (not even SnT)
Traded for Wood, (probably) let him walk (probably not even a SnT)
Traded for KP then traded assets to get rid of KP
Traded assets for Reddick. Let him walk for nothing.
Traded for Richardson. Then traded him for Moses. Then waived Moses. Ended up with nothing.

Trade for Kyrie (and then let him walk?)
Traded for Luka (and then let him walk?)

saclare · 04-12-2023, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dallas41

Seems like kidd wasn't the only guy with an issue regarding Wood

Nico seemed to be onboard doing the exit interview

Nico didn't sound like he was a fine of Wood's style of play

Which begs the question if they had doubts about his overall game Why the hell did they waist a 1st round pick obtaining him.

Dude had all the same red flags before the trade and you still pulled the trigger

I would tend to agree with you, kind of hard to justify giving up a 1st rounder if that's what they thought of his game. Then I read this reply...

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

So Nico's direct criticism was that Wood was an efficient scorer but there is more to the NBA than that.

Uhh, actually being an efficient scorer exactly what you should be in today's league.

All Nico had to do was say that we needed more defense from the position. But our FO constantly says and does stupid things.

Meanwhile, Bullock takes half the season off and not a peep.

At least Nico said DFS didn't help our defense, so there is that.

Makes me think they really thought they could change Wood or at least make big strides on the defensive part of his game. That was certainly the indication early on but it quickly became apparent he was simply not that type of player.

SMC0007 · 04-11-2023, 07:27 PM

Nico pissing in the wind with the Wood criticism. You get the damn guy and don't even start him until you had to and he actually produced for the most part.

Nico is a yes man, imo, until proven otherwise. Kidd is a yes man. When Cuban is the leader, that's a bad situation.

BPo001 · 04-11-2023, 08:35 PM

Nico is in over his head. Like others have said why trade for Wood if you didn?t like his style of play? I expect Kidd to get dumped mid season as we fight for a .500 record halfway through the season.

Dallas41 · 04-11-2023, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BPo001

Nico is in over his head. Like others have said why trade for Wood if you didn?t like his style of play? I expect Kidd to get dumped mid season as we fight for a .500 record halfway through the season.

That's what I was trying to say

The mavs seem to favor good locker room types of guys.

There were whispers about Wood not being a good teammate prior to the trade. The mavs had inside knowledge of him via Stephen Silas and I'm sure between nico and Cuban that conversation had to be brought up about Wood.

Based on what transpired and how things turned out this year I have to believe nico and Cuban were both hesitant but decided to pull the trigger anyway while kidd probably had 0 interest from the start.

Seems like not everyone is on the same page

DevinHarriswillstart · 04-11-2023, 09:24 PM

This message is hidden because FreshJive is on your ignore list. Just in case anyone wonders why I don't reply.

Anyhoo, I bet Cuban had some delusion they could turn Wood into a defensive player. It's not the first time they tried to force players to do things they weren't good at.

But even so, to call out Wood while your starting center is Powell and McGee not playing is just bizarre. Like, Wood must have done something to piss off Cuban/Kidd early on.

FreshJive · 04-11-2023, 09:49 PM

I know dhws has me blocked. I was worried that Nico did say something that stupid, and went to watch it for myself. I responded just in case someone else wanted to check it out for themselves.

EricaLubarsky · 04-11-2023, 11:08 PM

Tomorrow we?re all Bulls fans, right?

If they beat Raptors and then Hawks, we go from like an 80% chance of keeping the pick to near 100%

And Nurse is way more likely to become available

BPo001 · 04-11-2023, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Tomorrow we?re all Bulls fans, right?

If they beat Raptors and then Hawks, we go from like an 80% chance of keeping the pick to near 100%

And Nurse is way more likely to become available

I don?t think it matters if Nurse is available. Cuban won?t fire Kidd, unfortunately.

saclare · 04-12-2023, 02:05 PM

Of course it's all hindsight, I get that. I'm just saying it's not as clear cut as saying ehhhh it ended up being Wendell Moore so not that big of a deal.

And I liked and understood the Wood trade. But it is a waste of a first round pick, swing and miss on Nico and Co. He needs to be called out next time that it was under his management that the move was made, so why the comments now? Force him to admit they got it wrong. Sometimes our beats can be too kind.

Dtownsfinest · 04-12-2023, 02:13 PM

Just watching 4 teams?not even good teams but four teams fighting to get into the playoffs? It?s clear the Mavs have talent issues. Hawks, Heat, Lakers and Twolves have guys that can start for us right now sitting on their bench.

DevinHarriswillstart · 04-12-2023, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Just watching 4 teams?not even good teams but four teams fighting to get into the playoffs? It?s clear the Mavs have talent issues. Hawks, Heat, Lakers and Twolves have guys that can start for us right now sitting on their bench.

Which just goes into the Wood debate. We needed talent, especially in the big man department.

Why they didn't utilize that correctly is still beyond me.

Problem is wondering now how they are going to realistically fix that though. No cap space, few assets with value.

EricaLubarsky · 04-12-2023, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Which just goes into the Wood debate. We needed talent, especially in the big man department.

Why they didn't utilize that correctly is still beyond me.

Problem is wondering now how they are going to realistically fix that though. No cap space, few assets with value.

Honestly feel like assuming we don't get bumped to 11th, we have a clear path to two great bigs.

Walker if we somehow get a 2-4
Hendricks if we end up 10th

Both are two-way guys who can defend and rebound.

DevinHarriswillstart · 04-12-2023, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Honestly feel like assuming we don't get bumped to 11th, we have a clear path to two great bigs.

Walker if we somehow get a 2-4
Hendricks if we end up 10th

Both are two-way guys who can defend and rebound.

I cannot see Hendricks making it to 10. That would be a a miracle IMO.

But hey, I never though Hardy would be available at 37, so what do I know?

SMC0007 · 04-12-2023, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Honestly feel like assuming we don't get bumped to 11th, we have a clear path to two great bigs.

Walker if we somehow get a 2-4
Hendricks if we end up 10th

Both are two-way guys who can defend and rebound.

Is Hendricks really a 2 way player? Looks closer to Wood but I've only seen a few games and some highlights. I think his potential and mobility make him a top 7 or 8 pick.

We probably need to be looking at that next tier.

DevinHarriswillstart · 04-12-2023, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Is Hendricks really a 2 way player? Looks closer to Wood but I've only seen a few games and some highlights. I think his potential and mobility make him a top 7 or 8 pick.

We probably need to be looking at that next tier.

He's basically Wood with better defense but the comparison isn't far off.

Really sucks this draft isn't like last year with big men. Duren, Williams, Kessler...ugh.

Dtownsfinest · 04-12-2023, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Which just goes into the Wood debate. We needed talent, especially in the big man department.

Why they didn't utilize that correctly is still beyond me.

Problem is wondering now how they are going to realistically fix that though. No cap space, few assets with value.

There?s no justification to why they did that to Wood especially when they need talent. There?s no insensitive for him to sign here.

EricaLubarsky · 04-12-2023, 04:02 PM

?I think Dwight [Powell] will be back on a minimum, to be honest with you.? - Tim MacMahon

ShaggyDirk · 04-12-2023, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

?I think Dwight [Powell] will be back on a minimum, to be honest with you.? - Tim MacMahon

Speaking of... This feels like an alternate universe

DM +/- for 22/23 Season

Powell: +166
THJ: +160
Luka: +128
Kyrie: +96
Josh: +76
Ntilikina: +35
Morris: -20
Hardy: -32
Bertans: -37
C-Wood: -43
Kleber: -43
Pinson: -50
McGee: -57
Holiday: -63
Bullock: -88
Wright IV: -110

I understand how this is possible but it still is hilarious considering how much I want Powell off the dang court.

DevinHarriswillstart · 04-12-2023, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaggyDirk

Speaking of... This feels like an alternate universe

DM +/- for 22/23 Season

Powell: +166
THJ: +160
Luka: +128
Kyrie: +96
Josh: +76
Ntilikina: +35
Morris: -20
Hardy: -32
Bertans: -37
C-Wood: -43
Kleber: -43
Pinson: -50
McGee: -57
Holiday: -63
Bullock: -88
Wright IV: -110

I understand how this is possible but it still is hilarious considering how much I want Powell off the dang court.

You can find a stat to back up anything. I mean, Frank Ntilkina a +35 is equally silly.

And Wright a -110? I don't even know what that means.

saclare · 04-12-2023, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

You can find a stat to back up anything. I mean, Frank Ntilkina a +35 is equally silly.

And Wright a -110? I don't even know what that means.

Much more to do with who they share the court with than their individual contributions, is all. It's why +/- is a near useless stat.

Zeus · 04-14-2023, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saclare

Much more to do with who they share the court with than their individual contributions, is all. It's why +/- is a near useless stat.

Totally agree. Unless they start playing one on one, basketball will always be multivariate so as you say +/- not necessarily indicative of impact.

saclare · 04-12-2023, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

?I think Dwight [Powell] will be back on a minimum, to be honest with you.? - Tim MacMahon

Prepare for it. But we better pray it's in the correct role as a reserve big man with much more limited minutes.

I honestly wouldn't mind Powell back at all IF the above is the plan.

EricaLubarsky · 04-12-2023, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saclare

Prepare for it. But we better pray it's in the correct role as a reserve big man with much more limited minutes.

I honestly wouldn't mind Powell back at all IF the above is the plan.

Yeah it's hard to hate the guy. He's lovable. He's hardworking. Every 2-3 games he has 10-20 really dominant minutes. He takes a lot more flack than he deserves when the fault is really on Nico/Cuban for not putting a good frontcourt out there and Kidd for bad rotations.

My only concern would be that we re-sign him and then totally blow the offseason so he starts and plays 30mpg or we do get some frontcourt guys and Kidd ignores them like Morris, Wood, and others.

tap2390 · 04-13-2023, 08:21 AM

I hate to be a debbie downer, but honestly the trail of mismanagement beginning with the KP trade might be too much to overcome. OKC is young and hungry and arguably better than us not considering the assets they?ve amassed (and have Chet coming back). If Harden and Wemby end up on the Rockets you can kiss playoffs goodbye next year too.