Can someone explain why this is called a "stimulus"

[dude1394]

Got to make sure that white construction workers AND christian construction workers don't get any jobs in the stimulsu package.

http://corner.nationalreview.com/pos...U3ZWRhYmMzMGM=

For Immediate Release: February 5, 2009
Office of U.S. Senator Jim DeMint (R-South Carolina)

Democrats Vote to Discriminate Against Students of Faith

Stimulus bans universities and colleges from using funds to renovate buildings where students engage in “religious worship”

Washington, D.C. – Today, U.S. Senator Jim DeMint (R-South Carolina) made the following statement after Democrats voted 43-54 against his amendment to strike language from the economic stimulus bill that discriminates against students of faith. Senator DeMint’s amendment would have eliminated a provision that bans any university or college receiving funds to renovate buildings, from allowing “sectarian instruction” or “religious worship” within the facility. This would in effect bar use of campus buildings for groups like the Fellowship of Christian Athletes, Campus Crusade for Christ, Catholic Student Ministries, Hillel, and other religious organizations.

[alby]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Well this looks like a HECK of a stimulus. It will create a new bureaucracy, that should create some jobs.

Originally Posted by alby

So can we all agree the real name of this thing is called The Socialism Act of 2009?

Unfortunately, I was pretty close to the truth on this one.

[alexamenos]

http://www.nyu.edu/projects/sciabarr...es/001540.html

A Crisis of Political Economy

Oy, what a mess...

ct'd

What he said^^^.

[DirkFTW]

"Jesus, Allah, Buddah. I love you all! Now give me 60 votes!"

[dude1394]

We may NEVER recover!!!

WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama warned on Thursday that failure to act on an economic recovery package could plunge the nation into a long-lasting recession that might prove irreversible, a fresh call to a recalcitrant Congress to move quickly.

If we don't have massive guvment spending we are all DOOMED!! It will be worse than 9/11 times a thousand!

[alby]

How about End of Capitalism Act 2009

[wmbwinn]

Maybe we'll find it easier to negotiate with Russia and China as we become more like them...

Change...

I Hope I have some change left....

Hope and Change...

[chumdawg]

Washington, D.C. – Today, U.S. Senator Jim DeMint (R-South Carolina) made the following statement after Democrats voted 43-54 against his amendment to strike language from the economic stimulus bill that discriminates against students of faith. Senator DeMint’s amendment would have eliminated a provision that bans any university or college receiving funds to renovate buildings, from allowing “sectarian instruction” or “religious worship” within the facility. This would in effect bar use of campus buildings for groups like the Fellowship of Christian Athletes, Campus Crusade for Christ, Catholic Student Ministries, Hillel, and other religious organizations.

There's no place for something like "Campus Crusade for Christ" on a university campus, if it's being sponsored by the university.

The students are free to do whatever they choose, of course.

[Mavdog]

isn't the church or seminary the best place for "sectarian instruction" and "religious worship"? these are the primary reasons for them to exist.

doesn't fit in a non-sectarian educational institution....also doesn't mean these organizations mentioned are banned from a university.

[DirkFTW]

Is it that they can't use the campus or that they can't use a renovated building?

One is a ban from the university. The other is retarded.

In the broader sense, doesn't sectarian instruction include political organizations?

[Flacolaco]

Picking up where Silk left off...accusing a huge NBA fan of not liking black people. Brilliant, and logical too. Well done.

[dude1394]

Now the CBO says we don't even need this elect-a-democrat stimulus package. Have to agree with 'em this time.

But for some reason I dont' think Obama will agree.

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/99xx/doc9..._Testimony.pdf

CBO anticipates that the current recession, which started in December 2007, will last until the second half of 2009, making it the longest recession since World War II. (The longest such recessions otherwise, the 1973–1974 and 1981–1982 recessions, both lasted 16 months. If the current recession were to continue beyond midyear, it would last at least 19 months.) It could also be the deepest recession during the postwar period: By CBO’s estimates, economic output over the next two years will average 6.8 percent below its potential—that is, the level of output that would be produced if the economy’s resources were fully employed (see Figure 1). This ecession, however, may not result in the highest unemployment rate. That rate, in CBO’s forecast, rises to 9.2 percent by early 2010 (up from a low of 4.4 percent at the end of 2006) but is still below the 10.8 percent rate seen near the end of the 1981–1982 recession.

[92bDad]

This whole stimulus things is crazy.

Why can't our government follow some very simple individual principles in order to right the ship?

For me, I have cut cost to fit within my income level. It turns out, that by cutting the fat, I have had more money to spend on other things.

I don't need anyone to give me more money to keep spending like a drunken sailor or a retired grandma taking a weekend in at the local Indian Reservation Casino...

Rather than our government giving money away, that they do NOT currently have...why not cut back on spending, cut down the cost...trim the FAT!!!

Allow companies to suffer the natural consequences of bad financial decisions...

People are resiliant, people provided they are willing, will find new jobs, new careers. We will see new companies formed, new competition and new ideas flourish under the innovative and enterprising spirit of Americancs in general.

Those that are not willing, will continue to be dependant and rely on hand-outs.

That's fine, provide support for those in need, but let's not make it so comfortable that they don't see a better path by becoming self-sufficient.

Personally I would vote 100% NO to the bailouts!!!

Trust me, I'm feeling the pinch...I am in sales and my customers are in the Retail/Hospitality markets...of which they are not buying at the moment. But rather than get down, I see nothing but huge opportunities ahead. I am looking for that new company who will grow and replace the Circuit City's of the world.

The more our government gets involved the less I see enterprising being rewarded...the more I see the welfare state, victim attitude taking shape. The more government intervention we see, the more like France we become.

I worked for a French company from 2000 to 2007 and I saw first hand that they inspire the youth to do nothing...the youth have a better life living off the government than if they are working. Unemployment was higher than in the U.S. People who don't pay rent or mortgage are unable to be evicted...companies can't fire people for poor performance. It's crazy and extremely backwards.

If the government wants to stimulate the economy, then they need to cut costs and cut taxes. Again, NO bailout using money that they don't have...

[DelNegro]

Originally Posted by 92bDad

Rather than our government giving money away, that they do NOT currently have...why not cut back on spending, cut down the cost...trim the FAT!!!

Because trimming the fat doesn't get politicians elected. Politicians get elected by doing what's popular, irregardless of whether or not what's popular also happens to be what's best. And nothing is more popular to "we the people" than to have our politicians give us things while making someone else, i.e. future generations of Americans, pay for it.

[alexamenos]

by cutting the fat, I have had more money to spend on other things.

^^^in a nutshell, everything that is wrong about Keynesianism and right about market solutions.

The Keynesians that are running the gubmint, unfortunately, are doing everything they can to keep the fat in place, and thereby making it impossible to spend money on other things.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by alexamenos

^^^in a nutshell, everything that is wrong about Keynesianism and right about market solutions.

The Keynesians that are running the gubmint, unfortunately, are doing everything they can to keep the fat in place, and thereby making it impossible to spend money on other things.

But if you don't spend money THEIR way, you won't make THEM rich...

[alexamenos]

Originally Posted by Underdog

But if you don't spend money THEIR way, you won't make THEM rich...

Keynesianism is great for government and the powers that be...no doubt.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by alexamenos

Keynesianism is great for government and the powers that be...no doubt.

Pretty much ANY system of control is great for the powers that be - the game is always stacked in THEIR favor when THEY set the rules...


(oh, how I long to be one of THEM...)

[alexamenos]

Originally Posted by Underdog

(oh, how I long to be one of THEM...)

If I were one of the masters of the universe, I'd make your mom my personal scrotum washer -- anytime I felt a little unfresh down there I'd say, 'hey, UD's mom -- get over here with that steamed towel and do your job.'

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by alexamenos

If I were one of the masters of the universe, I'd make your mom my personal scrotum washer -- anytime I felt a little unfresh down there I'd say, 'hey, UD's mom -- get over here with that steamed towel and do your job.'

I have her pretty well-trained, so you should be pleased with the results...


(the only time she needs to be beaten is when she looks you in the eyes...)

[alexamenos]

i must spread some reputation around before giving it to underdog again

(and by giving it to underdog, I don't mean giving it like i've been giving it to underdog's mom)

[dude1394]

Tax cuts...tax cuts...why do republicans always talk about..oh 62% of the US citizens aren't republican...

With the Senate poised to vote Tuesday on an $827-billion version of the economic recovery plan, 62% of U.S. voters want the plan to include more tax cuts and less government spending.

Just 14% would like to move in the opposite direction with more government spending and fewer tax cuts, according to a new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey. Twenty percent (20%) would be happy to pass it pretty much as is, and five percent (5%) are not sure.

Republicans and unaffiliated voters overwhelmingly want to see more tax cuts and less government spending. Democrats are more evenly divided: 42% agree with the Republicans, 32% want to pass the plan as is, and 22% would like to see more government spending and fewer tax cuts.

Most conservative and moderate voters want to see more tax cuts. A plurality of liberals say the plan should be passed pretty much as it is.

[DirkFTW]

I'm telling you guys, it's cheaper to just give $50,000 to hire an unemployed American. Only $580 billion to hire every one of the 11.6 million unemployed Americans if we do that.

Actually, then give $247 billion to me for coming up with this plan. So same price tag, but immediately fixes unemployment for 2009, carrying us through this next year that economists predict will be so terrible.

Hope for Wagyu First.
DirkFTW '10

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by DirkFTW

I'm telling you guys, it's cheaper to just give $50,000 to hire an unemployed American. Only $580 billion to hire every one of the 11.6 million unemployed Americans if we do that.

Actually, then give $247 billion to me for coming up with this plan. So same price tag, but immediately fixes unemployment for 2009, carrying us through this next year that economists predict will be so terrible.

Hope for Wagyu First.
DirkFTW '10

It wouldn't help enough union workers, push more people into welfare and get us closer to socialized medicine.



Except the racist, bigots and hicks who wouldn't vote for obama.

[ty]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Except the racist, bigots and hicks who wouldn't vote for obama.

Careful saying things like that...you get in a pointless argument with...oh wait nevermind.

[dude1394]

Well this looks like a HECK of a stimulus. It will create a new bureaucracy, that should create some jobs.

But the bill goes further. One new bureaucracy, the National Coordinator of Health Information Technology, will monitor treatments to make sure your doctor is doing what the federal government deems appropriate and cost effective. The goal is to reduce costs and “guide” your doctor’s decisions (442, 446). These provisions in the stimulus bill are virtually identical to what Daschle prescribed in his 2008 book, “Critical: What We Can Do About the Health-Care Crisis.” According to Daschle, doctors have to give up autonomy and “learn to operate less like solo practitioners.”

[dude1394]

How much pork can democrats shove down the american peoples throats...it appears...quite a bit.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123396676711659061.html

To understand the problem with the stimulus bill, it helps to focus on specific parts. Take the $142 billion for schools, which is nearly double the total outlays of the Department of Education in 2007. Now consider that much of this cash would go to public-school systems that don't even need the money for its earmarked purposes.

................

The Milwaukee Public School system, for example, would receive $88.6 million over two years for new construction projects under the House version of the stimulus — even though the district currently has 15 vacant school buildings and declining enrollment. Between 1990 and 2008, inflation-adjusted MPS spending rose by 35%, per-pupil spending increased by 36% and state aid grew by 58%. Over the same period, enrollment fell by a percentage point and is projected to continue falling, leaving the system with enough excess capacity for some 22,000 students.

[alexamenos]

First of all, this "stimulus" stuff is a bunch of stuff - if it's every liberal congressman's wet dream spending bill sold on the fear of the looming economic catastrophe. As Rahm Emmanual sez, you can't let a crisis go to waste--so, eff the dems, they're taking advantage of the situation to get their political willies wet.

And since I'm here...eff the Republicans too...eff 'em twice, once in the backside. These conmen just got through passing the bankers boondoggle, a bill every bit as bad as this one Obama's criminals are getting ready to pass. The Republicans are a bunch of conmen socialists who only oppose spending when they have no chance of getting their way.

[alexamenos]

We Are All Socialist Now

[chumdawg]

What country is he going to move to?

[wmbwinn]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

What country is he going to move to?

Australia, New Zealand. Or, just might retire anywhere as he has accumulated enough to not have to worry much.

[chumdawg]

Of course if he is ready to retire, to live off his wealth and no longer earn income, I don't guess it matters a whole lot.

I took it from his diatribe that he wished to still earn money and make an income, the prospect of which he no longer found likely in these United States. If that were the case, I was wondering where he would find more hospitable environs.

If the dude is ready to call it a good life and while away his days awash in the fruits of his labor, who can blame him? He earned it, after all.

Didn't sound like that was the case, though.

[DirkFTW]

Then, I will close this company down, move to another country, and retire.

I think he's saying it's not worth starting your own business, so he's giving up. It's not that he's got enough to retire comfortably. It's that being taxed to death is worse than just calling it quits. For him, the dream is dead.

Hope he's the only one.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by DirkFTW

I think he's saying it's not worth starting your own business, so he's giving up. It's not that he's got enough to retire comfortably. It's that being taxed to death is worse than just calling it quits. For him, the dream is dead.

Hope he's the only one.

He's an idiot if he's paying 50% taxes on his business' income... He needs to hire an accountant (or take a couple accounting classes at a community college) - I bet at least a third of what he's paying can be written-off... Businesses are afforded sooooo many more financial loopholes than individuals that no business owner should be bitching about what they pay in taxes (only MAJOR corporations get taxed unfairly because most of the taxable income in this country is wrapped up in them...)

At the end of the day, this guy is probably just another business owner who sucked at his job and he's trying to use politics as a cop-out for his own short-comings (probably because the guy he voted for lost, as if it would have made a difference...)

Most of the people I know either work for themselves or own a small business and they seem to be doing just fine (none of them pay 50% of their business' income into taxes either!) A lot of it depends on the industry you're in, but success is still measured by one's ability to change with the times... Well, times are changing fast these days - if you're not ahead of the game, then you've already lost! (survival of the fittest and whatnot...)

[Arne]

Originally Posted by Underdog

He's an idiot if he's paying 50% taxes on his business' income... He needs to hire an accountant (or take a couple accounting classes at a community college) - I bet at least a third of what he's paying can be written-off... Businesses are afforded sooooo many more financial loopholes than individuals that no business owner should be bitching about what they pay in taxes (only MAJOR corporations get taxed unfairly because most of the taxable income in this country is wrapped up in them...)

At the end of the day, this guy is probably just another business owner who sucked at his job and he's trying to use politics as a cop-out for his own short-comings (probably because the guy he voted for lost, as if it would have made a difference...)

Most of the people I know either work for themselves or own a small business and they seem to be doing just fine (none of them pay 50% of their business' income into taxes either!) A lot of it depends on the industry you're in, but success is still measured by one's ability to change with the times... Well, times are changing fast these days - if you're not ahead of the game, then you've already lost! (survival of the fittest and whatnot...)

The real problem here is that hundreds of thousand highly skilled bright minds are spending all day long on tax forms, tax optimization, etc. These potentially highly productive people could be in real jobs increasing our standart of living every day if it were not for these tax laws.

If you want to tax people tax them at consumption.

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by Arne

The real problem here is that hundreds of thousand highly skilled bright minds are spending all day long on tax forms, tax optimization, etc. These potentially highly productive people could be in real jobs increasing our standart of living every day if it were not for these tax laws.

If you want to tax people tax them at consumption.

I'm not on board the consumption tax bandwagon, but this we can agree on: our tax code is in need of an overhaul with simplification required.

I'm on the flat tax bandwagon, that will be the most efficient and equitable manner to tax imho.

[Mavdog]

apparently this business owner isn't aware of the tax cuts which were passed in the recent stimulus bill....

btw he sounds like a very self interested person who needs to find joy in something other than his work.

[Underdog]

The problem isn't how we're taxed so much as how we spend our taxes (which obviously dictates how we're taxed)... I want an itemized receipt accounting for every taxed penny spent and a mandatory death sentence for anyone who lines their own pockets with our tax dollars...


We'd be out of this financial debacle in a week...

[Arne]

Originally Posted by Underdog

The problem isn't how we're taxed so much as how we spend our taxes (which obviously dictates how we're taxed)... I want an itemized receipt accounting for every taxed penny spent and a mandatory death sentence for anyone who lines their own pockets with our tax dollars...


We'd be out of this financial debacle in a week...

Quite true. But still, you don't want this limited amount that they would still tax you to be taken in thousands of different taxes. One sales tax does it as well.

[Mavdog]

you don't want to understand. you refuse to go with anything obama says or does.

you support the idea of federal spending cuts, yet you atttack obama for saying that very thing.

hmm, who looks hypocritical...

obama submits his first budget at the end of this month. let's see what he actually proposes to determine if he's just talking, if he proposes cuts in spending will you give him due credit?