It's On!!!! The Official RNC Thread

[reeds]

"Reeds you sound like the biggest baby. Bush has been called every name in the book for 2 years now and you hardly hear about it from them at all."

DUDE, there is a big difference...He wasnt called those names during the convention..the convention should stand for something different..stating your parties beleifs, not bashing the other party..the replubicans chose to fight dirty..i hope it backfires...


"just like the big whopper you told about someone being doomed to die because bush wasn't funding empryo stem cells?"

Bush is not doing enough with stem cell research- did I lie???

[mavsman55]

Originally posted by: reeds
oh thats right- he was an EVIL man and it was just a matter of time...whatever..same old same old....

What's the matter, still can't handle the truth? How many more innocent Iraqi lives would it have taken to change your mind? Thousands? Millions? Oh wait, that's right, our money would be better spent on art supplies.

[dude1394]

Originally posted by: reeds
"Reeds you sound like the biggest baby. Bush has been called every name in the book for 2 years now and you hardly hear about it from them at all."

DUDE, there is a big difference...He wasnt called those names during the convention..the convention should stand for something different..stating your parties beleifs, not bashing the other party..the replubicans chose to fight dirty..i hope it backfires...


"just like the big whopper you told about someone being doomed to die because bush wasn't funding empryo stem cells?"

Bush is not doing enough with stem cell research- did I lie???

Yes you did lie. Your statement was that someone you know is DYING because bush isn't doing enough about stem cells. Even though bush is the ONLY president to ever fund stem cell research. And then you give him no credit for it. Ridiculous.

What "names" was he called? Was he called awol? Wasn't his military service applauded by each speaker AND the crowd? Listening to someone tear your candidate a new one with his own record is NOT calling him a name. He was certainly no more called a name than kerry called bush a name today at the VFW.

[dude1394]

Good god ron reagan on msnbc is horrible.

[dude1394]

Here is cheney calling kerry a bad name.

11. "A Senator can be wrong for twenty years without consequence to the nation, but a President always casts the deciding vote." Cheney is warming up as he lays into John Kerry. He's amusing himself. He chuckles: "Senator Kerry's liveliest disagreement is with himself. ... Senator Kerry says he sees two Americas. It makes the whole thing mutual. America sees two Kerrys." A man in the audience is seen rhythmically waving two flip-flops.

[LRB]

Originally posted by: reeds
"Reeds you sound like the biggest baby. Bush has been called every name in the book for 2 years now and you hardly hear about it from them at all."

DUDE, there is a big difference...He wasnt called those names during the convention..the convention should stand for something different..stating your parties beleifs, not bashing the other party..the replubicans chose to fight dirty..i hope it backfires...


"just like the big whopper you told about someone being doomed to die because bush wasn't funding empryo stem cells?"

Bush is not doing enough with stem cell research- did I lie???

Reeds your absolute denial of reality never ceases to amaze me. How you could possibly say that Bush wasn't called any names in the DNC which featured Michael "Maggot" Moore as a major speaker is beyond me. Apparently you just "forget" the things that aren't convient for you to remember. Bush was bashed throughout the DNC. In fact that's really about all Kerry has is bashing Bush. And let the republicans mention Kerry's record in the senate and you start whining like a huge baby about being unfair. That's just pathetic.

[FreshJive]

I don't know if this has been posted about yet or not, but Zel VS Mathews was freakin hillarious.

"I wish we still lived in the times where we could have a duel."

[dude1394]

Man I hope that video clip is made available.

Also foxnews site has clips of all of the speeches.

Including Ron Silvers... Check 'em out... They are in the little photos..videos...photoessays...others. box. Click on video and scroll down almost to the first entry.

foxnews

[dude1394]

Beldar who seems to be the only journalist in the country that is either smart enough or not too lazy to have read kerry's biography. Comments on poor reeds whining about Zell calling Kerry out for saying that our soldiers are occupiers and not liberators.

beldar

Occupiers versus liberators

During Sen. Zell Miller's keynote address Wednesday night at the Republican National Convention, I was struck by these lines (boldface mine throughout):

Motivated more by partisan politics than by national security, today's Democratic leaders see America as an occupier, not a liberator.

And nothing makes this Marine madder than someone calling American troops occupiers rather than liberators.

Tell that to the one-half of Europe that was freed because Franklin Roosevelt led an army of liberators, not occupiers.

Tell that to the lower half of the Korean Peninsula that is free because Dwight Eisenhower commanded an army of liberators, not occupiers.

Tell that to the half a billion men, women and children who are free today from the Baltics to the Crimea, from Poland to Siberia, because Ronald Reagan rebuilt a military of liberators, not occupiers.

Do you think Sen. Miller was exaggerating in his description of how today's Democratic leaders see America? Well, just ask John Kerry and his Tour of Duty biographer Douglas Brinkley. At page 306:

[W]hen a New York Times reporter asked [Kerry] how he had felt about being in Vietnam, he would reply: "My mother was actually born in France and when we lived there I used to play in the old German bunkers outside my grandmother's house. From listening to her stories, I got a vivid impression of what it was like to live in an occupied country, and when I went ashore in those [Vietnamese] villages, I realized that's exactly what I was in — an occupied country."

Or on page 278:

"I know that most of my friends felt absolutely absurd going up a river holding a loaded weapon that was supposed to be used against someone who had never really done anything to you and on whose land you were now trespassing," Kerry revealed.... The twenty-five-year-old had explored similar uneasy feelings in a letter he had written to his parents back on December 21, 1968. Describing the pleasant scene of American soldiers and their Vietnamese girlfriends strolling down the streets of Vung Tau one sunny afternoon, he reflected on the crucial difference between occupiers and liberators of war-torn places. "I asked myself what it would be like to be occupied by foreign troops — to have to bend to the desires of a people who could not be sensitive to the things that really counted in one's country," Kerry wrote. He had been reflecting on Germany's occupation of France during World War II, he added, when "a thought came over me that I didn't like — I felt more like the German than the doughboy who came over to make the world safe for democracy and who rightfully had a star in his eye."

Sen. Miller, perhaps you can ask Sen. Kerry about these quotes on the floor of the Senate or in a committee hearing or something — if Sen. Kerry bothers to show up there again between now and the election. He still seems to need some help figuring out whether he was one of the good guys or the bad guys when he was in Vietnam.

[Dooby]

For the record, I think Zell Miller was over-the-top. He came acrossed as PO'd more than anything else, to me.

[Dooby]

MSNBC's Howard Fineman:

New York, Wednesday, Sept. 1, 10:35 p.m. --

I keep waiting for this Republican convention to be about something other than terrorism and the war in Iraq and the idea that military might is the answer to all of our security problems, and I keep not seeing it happen. I'm here listening to the speeches of Sen. Zell Miller and Vice President Dick Cheney, and they may as well be playing the "Battle Hymn of the Republic" in the background.

This is a defining moment in the defense of America, Milller and Cheney said — and they assume that the American people ultimately will recoil at the notion of Sen. John Kerry handling it.

The list: He likes the U.N., voted against Desert Storm, he voted against various weapons systems and he thinks he need to fight a more "sensitive" war on terror. <u>This is the ground Kerry chose to fight on, and the Republicans are chewing him to pieces on it. </u>

It's all an extension of the George Bush we saw on the rubble of Ground Zero and his whole re-election since then has been premised on that one moment. Is it enough?

We'll know soon enough.

Kerry has grossly miscalculated this election, just like the Democrats as a whole in 2002. Here's an even worse thought for Democrats: A lot of economic news comes out on Friday morning; what if it is good?

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally posted by: Dooby
For the record, I think Zell Miller was over-the-top. He came acrossed as PO'd more than anything else, to me.

me too. but man was it entertaining. "cantankerous" is more than just a funny word. It's an old man PO'd enough to cross party lines, drag his emotion into an interview with Matthews, and to challenge him to a duel.

The fact that he was waving Kerry's voting record around (metaphorically during the speech and physically during the interview) as if that is how we should actually judge Kerry's leadership and agenda was great. But the best part was that Meller's name is Zell, and he's an old man who's fed up with that voting record.

Politically, I'd have liked to have heard more "pro-repub" stuff from him. But he did make me laugh, and forced a look at Kerry's senate years.

[Rhylan]

Ditto, Dooby.. but I was quite entertained by it. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

I felt like Miller was venting his frustrations against the far-left of the Democratic party, the Hollywood types and other outrageous folks who get so much airtime. As much as anything else, it's the fault of the party's leaders for allowing these types to present themselves as the face of the Democratic party and give Zell so much ammunition.

I also think it's made possible by the political missteps of the DNC. Kerry hung his hat on one peg - Vietnam. And politically speaking, that was a tactical error. You still have all the uber-left-wingers and their rants on one side, but Kerry ran ALL the way to the right (of the left) in trying to "report for duty." It left the Democratic party with a huge hole in the middle where their core policies should be on display. In my opinion, Kerry should have framed his Senate record in such a way that he could demonstrate (spin) an evolution of a man who was learning to serve America the last 20-some-odd years. He could have painted the "flip flops" as evolving, learning from mistakes, adjusting to a "new world order," even! But instead, they just didn't bring up his years Senate at all.

So what you end up getting is two conventions that have said very little about anything concrete other than foreign policy. It's no surprise the Reps tapped Miller to come in and give a hellfire & brimstone speech. For one, he has been ticked at his party for years, and two, they had to take a night to display Kerry's Senate record since he ignored it in his own convention. Might as well do it with a bang, at this point. Nothing substantive has really been said by either side yet, anyway.

Being a Bush supporter, I hope that Bush comes out tonight and spends some time talking about policy for the next four years. It would salvage both conventions and make him look pretty good.. but, I figure he'll come out and throw down some brief domestic rhetoric like Kerry & Edwards did, then talk about how he's better at kicking ass than Kerry. I don't mind that. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img] I just think there are better political moves that can be made.

[kg_veteran]

Miller was over the top (my wife was making fun of his "mad face", which is similar to the face my little boy makes when he's trying to appear mad), but I think his attack on Kerry's voting record was devastating. I'll have to go check out the Hardball website to read about the Matthews interview, but I think he really made some headway. The 'spitball' line was classic.

Rhylan makes a great point about the Senate record. It was a weakness for Kerry, and he really squandered an opportunity to address it before the Republicans did so on the national stage. To use a legal analogy, if I have 'bad facts' and I'm trying a case, I want to talk about them before the other side does. I will talk about them as soon as possible, because I don't want the jury to think that I've been concealing something from them, and I want to cast those 'bad facts' in a light that's most favorable to my position. That usually tends to prevent the other side from gaining a lot of momentum out of them. If, on the other hand, I sit back and hope the other side won't bring it up on cross-examination of my client, it has the potential to devastate my case. Well, that's what happened to John Kerry. He sat back and said nothing, and now the Republicans are chewing him up and spitting him out.

[Dooby]

Anybody catch Cheney's "Kerry served admirably in Vietnam" line. Like I've been saying, post GOP convention, it is all Kerry anti-war peace-nic. You can practically hear the gears shifting.

[sike]

"America sees two Kerrys." A man in the audience is seen rhythmically waving two flip-flops."

funnier stuff than SNL has had in years.....

[kg_veteran]

Originally posted by: Dooby
Anybody catch Cheney's "Kerry served admirably in Vietnam" line. Like I've been saying, post GOP convention, it is all Kerry anti-war peace-nic. You can practically hear the gears shifting.

I thought of you when I heard that line.

Miller's speech should be indication enough that they are shifting gears.

[Dooby]

"And it is all part of a pattern," the vice president added. "He has, in the last several years, been for the No Child Left Behind Act - and against it. He has spoken in favor of the North American Free Trade Agreement - and against it. He is for the Patriot Act - and against it. Sen. Kerry says he sees two Americans. It makes the whole thing mutual - America sees two John Kerrys."

[Drbio]

Originally posted by: Dooby
"And it is all part of a pattern," the vice president added. "He has, in the last several years, been for the No Child Left Behind Act - and against it. He has spoken in favor of the North American Free Trade Agreement - and against it. He is for the Patriot Act - and against it. Sen. Kerry says he sees two Americans. It makes the whole thing mutual - America sees two John Kerrys."

I thought that was one of the most powerful statements in Cheney's speech.

[Lvubun1]

I actually thought Zell's speech was great, real emotion, most of the time you just get the reading off the teleprompter, no feeling type speeches, he was angry and you could tell. Same reason why I enjoyed Sharpton's speech at the DNC, had that extra kick to it. The "what will they be armed with? spit balls." line was genius. Nothing wrong with serving up some red meat to the delegates, nothing will get a reaction during a convention like bashing the other candidate.

Now on the other hand Zell might have some credibility problems.

"In his 16 years in the Senate, John Kerry has fought against government waste
and worked hard to bring some accountability to Washington. Early in his Senate
career in 1986, John signed on to the Gramm-Rudman-Hollings Deficit Reduction
Bill, and he fought for balanced budgets before it was considered politically
correct for Democrats to do so. John has worked to strengthen our military,
reform public education, boost the economy and protect the environment." --
U.S. Senator Zell Miller (Remarks to the Democratic Party of Georgia Jefferson
Jackson Dinner 2001)

While U.S. Senator Zell Miller has signaled his support for George Bush, the
facts are Miller and Kerry have the exact same record when it comes to
defending the nation and Miller even called Kerry an "Authentic American Hero"
who has "Worked to Strengthen Our Military."

"My job tonight is an easy one: to present to you one of this nation's
authentic heroes, one of this party's best-known and greatest leaders -- and a
good friend. He was once a lieutenant governor - but he didn't stay in that
office 16 years, like someone else I know. It just took two years before the
people of Massachusetts moved him into the United States Senate in 1984. --
U.S. Senator Zell Miller (Remarks to the Democratic Party of Georgia Jefferson
Jackson Dinner 2001)

Kerry & Miller Have Supported the Exact Same Intelligence Funding in the Senate
-- Since joining the Senate in 2000, Zell Miller and John Kerry have supported
the exact same funding levels for America's Intelligence agencies. John Kerry
served on the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence for 6 years and is the
former Vice Chairman of the Committee. Kerry joined the Committee in early 1993
and served until early 2001. Zell Miller has not served on the Intelligence
Committee, Armed Services Committee or the Foreign Relations Committee in his
four years in the Senate.

FY04 Intel Authorization (2003, Unanimous Senate Voice Vote 11/21/03) FY03
Intel Authorization (2002, Unanimous Senate Voice Vote 09/25/02) FY02 Intel
Authorization (2001, Unanimous Senate Voice Vote 12/13/01) FY01 Intel
Authorization (2000, Unanimous Senate Voice Vote 12/06/00)

http://www.usnewswire.com/

[Dooby]

I heard late last night there was a speech out there like that. Again, it is a tactical failure of the Kerry camp. Wouldn't have made sense to widely publicize this in advance to damage his credibility? Damage is really done now. Strange. Oh, well. Hindsight is 20/20.

Everything else is a red herring IMO. Frankly, was Kerry even at those voice votes? He has the worst attendance record at the Senate. He was in NH that day in 2003.

[dude1394]

Since kerry changes his mind every 3 weeks, it's pretty hard to fault zell for changing his mind after 4 years of seeing the junk. If you look at zells carreer and how he got to the senate he really didn't want to go. He was pretty much begged by the governor. When he did he found out how petty and irresponsible that democrat party is in washington. Also this was BEFORE sept 11. A lot of things changed then.

[Dooby]

[Lvubun1]

Originally posted by: Dooby
I heard late last night there was a speech out there like that. Again, it is a tactical failure of the Kerry camp. Wouldn't have made sense to widely publicize this in advance to damage his credibility? Damage is really done now. Strange. Oh, well. Hindsight is 20/20.

Yeah it would have made ton of sense, the Kerry campaign released that last night *after* Zell's speech when its obviously too late. People are usually stuck with the first thing they see, read or hear, exposing him after the fact is useless. They have known he was going to be the keynote for weeks, maybe they didn't expect him to be so harsh but still no excuse for not defusing that bomb before it blew.

And yes, the Matthews/Miller interview was some of the funniest footage you will ever seen, no matter how many times I watch it I will never believe Zell actually challeged Matthews to a "duel".

[dude1394]

Bush was inclusive before inclusiveness was cool.

[Drbio]

Bush is strongly revered in the Midland area by all races. That was a nice endorsement.

[dude1394]

Tommy Franks giving his endorsement. Interesting statements about the swifties. Basically he's saying that he doesn't know if kerry did/did not serve well. He's giving both the pro-kerry swifties as well as the anti-kerry swifties the benefit of the doubt. He won't say that they swifties are wrong and won't say that kerry is wrong. Just that he didn't know.

However, he is NOT happy with the '71 comments. "I did NOT react well to the comments the senator made".

Mark Shields has become such a democrat flack. But he keeps running into people that know there stuff and have their own strong well thought out opnions.

[dude1394]

"Kerry has to google his own name to figure out where he stands on an issue today"

"And lose one with the FLIPPER". Pretty dang funny.

[dude1394]

So kerry will begin campaigning tonight. Another long-standing courtesy in politics screwed over by kerry. Classless as usual.

[Dooby]

Scarborough finally said it: For eight years Bill Clinton drove the republicans nuts and they did some stupid things because of it. The democrats are starting to look the same way and that is bad news for them.

[Epitome22]

I admit. After the first day of the convention I was impressed, dare I say almost seduced into reevaluating where I stand.

These last 2 days however, were a sobering reminder of why I detested the party in the first place. Ironically it was a 'democrat' who reminded me of where I stood. I'm optimistic about the chances for a democratic president, but pessimistic about the chances of the stupidity of my fellow countrymen ever undergoing serious reform.

[Evilmav2]

So Epitome, you say that you are, "pessimistic about the chances of the stupidity of my fellow countrymen ever undergoing serious reform."?

That sounds like something Mao Tse Tung and his enlightened Red Chinese henchmen might have printed on their pamphlets sixty years ago...


"Stupid" People Undergoing Serious Political "Reform". Gobi Desert, Chinese Xinjiang Province, 1952.

[Epitome22]

Originally posted by: Evilmav2
So Epitome, you say that you are, "pessimistic about the chances of the stupidity of my fellow countrymen ever undergoing serious reform."?

That sounds like something Mao Tse Tung and his enlightened Red Chinese henchmen might have printed on their pamphlets sixty years ago...


"Stupid" People Undergoing Serious Political "Reform". Gobe Desert, Chinese Xinjiang Province, 1952.

There's no basis for asserting that. If you're going to insult me, at least make it sensible, relevant and in context.

Ironically, despite differing in politics. Totalitarian socialists and Republicans have alot in common. They certainly both know the power of rhetoric.

[Evilmav2]

Hahaha... Well, dang it Epitome. I guess you must think that I'm just full of a very bad spirit of "Stupidity", and my ignorant political outlook is in need of "Serious Reform". It's just too gosh-darned bad we don't have any good reeducation labor camps in this country...

Keep on fighting the good fight Epitome, and try not to be "seduced" by the forces of counterrevolution and capitalism. Keep your nose clean, and someday you just might succeed in helping your collective fellow-travelers in suppressing and reeductating the national bourgeoisie, so that a shining new order- one that is ideologically in tune with the dialectics of class warfare and history- might be born. Obviously, the only logical answer for "Political Stupidity" in this country must be hard, progressive "Serious Reform", and I can see that you understand that clearly.

[Epitome22]

Like I said. Republicans have a gift for rhetoric (and hyperbole)

Sen. Joe McCarthy called. He says he thinks you're in the wrong millenium.

[LRB]

Epitome I don't see why you're getting so upset. I thought you were a huge supporter of marxism.