Nowitzki suspended one game for flagrant foul on Utah's Kirilenko

[LSMF]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

There is blame because Kirilenko didn't do anything wrong, or reckless, himself. There is every reason to believe that if Dirk didn't decide to bring the wood then Kirilenko wouldn't have left the game for x-rays and the hospital. Basketball is generally not a contact sport in the sense that football is, where high-speed collisions are commonplace. Dirk caused the collision to happen. Surely you won't deny that. That's why Dirk is to blame.

But again, it's no big deal. In fact, I'd bet that Avery Johnson is quite happy with the happenstance. Bill Lambieer used to dish out fouls like that all the time. Kurt Rambis sometimes would. Jerry Stackhouse can do it, too. (He can also pop a guy in the face in the tunnel or the parking lot.) Tough guys, who are serious about defending their paint, do that sort of thing. Euro softies don't.

Maybe it would be a better thing for the Mavs if the truth of the matter was NOT that Dirk got his wittle arm caught up and couldn't do anything different...and it WAS that Dirk was leaving a message that said you don't come into this lane against us unless you are prepared to end your night in a hospital.

Years and years of talk about Dirk and the Mavs needing to get tougher, and when they do there are people here who insist that they didn't mean it.

Very true

[LSMF]

Originally Posted by FINtastic

If this is the case, why doesn't Bowen ever get suspended for his actions? I can't believe the inconsistency of the league sometimes. I'm not really against the suspension for some of the reasons you've been arguing, but I just have a hard time understanding why the league can't apply the same rules across the board.

You must not know the rules...
1. The rules are always meant to be anti-Mav. This is called the Cuban-Stern relationship Factor

2. The rules are meant to protect players from dirty players unless said dirty players do not play for the Mavs

3. Any action taken by a Mav player that could be interpreted in any way as physical whether intentional or not will always result in a suspension of a Mav player.

4. If conclusive evidence is not available, game officials should refer to #1.

[dirno2000]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Man I just don't see it Dirno.

The decision to go after AK at all is certainly up for debate. You can make the case that Dirk should have just let him shoot. I can buy that. And as a result of that decision AK got hurt, so I can buy that as an argument for the penalty.

But I'm sorry, but I do not buy, at all, that Dirk could have gotten his arm dislodged there. Not at all. Those pictures show it clearly, and then when you watch the replay and see what an akward angle he was at, I think it's plain that once the commitment was made, there wasn't much Dirk could do to change it.

He was lower to the ground than AK, his arm was over his shoulder and under his neck. It was pinned. The only thing that allowed him to get away from the neck was falling further down.

If you watch the second highlight in this video, you can see just how much momentum he had, I just don't get how he was supposed to do anything but allow his arm to continue to swing. I mean that would just defy physics to pull your arm out while whipping around like that.

This sequence has been analyzed more than Jerry's famous "Where we live today, Sports" speech .

Our evil network admin has you-tube blocked so I can't go back and watch it again. I have seen it a number of times and I always come away with the impression that he could have lessened the impact or, if nothing else, lessened the appearance of a full take down. If I still have that game saved I'll give it another look later.

[nikeball]

Dirk is now the biggest thug on the team..since Josh has now decided to play like a little girl with all his cute jumpers. I never thought I would see the day in which Dirk drives to the hoop more than Josh does.

Hopefully this will take Avery's mancrush from Stack (for being the toughest SOB on the team) and move it onto someone else. Dirk has a pretty good mean streak.

[Dr.Zoidberg]

Thursday, Mar 6, 2008 11:13 am EST
Kirilenko not upset with Nowitzki for flagrant foul

Utah Jazz forward Andrei Kirilenko holds no ill will toward Dallas Mavericks forward Dirk Nowitzki for the flagrant foul he committed Monday night, one that cost Kirilenko a sprained right hip and Nowitzki a one-game suspension sans pay.

"I don't really think he did it for, like, mean purpose," said Kirilenko, who was injured in the first quarter of the Jazz's win. "Probably because of the situation -- he already lost the position, he was trying to stop somehow.

"It happens in the game," added Kirilenko, who thought Nowitzki was off-balance on the play. "I'm not looking (for) revenge."

Link

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Dr.Zoidberg

Thursday, Mar 6, 2008 11:13 am EST
Kirilenko not upset with Nowitzki for flagrant foul

Utah Jazz forward Andrei Kirilenko holds no ill will toward Dallas Mavericks forward Dirk Nowitzki for the flagrant foul he committed Monday night, one that cost Kirilenko a sprained right hip and Nowitzki a one-game suspension sans pay.

"I don't really think he did it for, like, mean purpose," said Kirilenko, who was injured in the first quarter of the Jazz's win. "Probably because of the situation -- he already lost the position, he was trying to stop somehow.

"It happens in the game," added Kirilenko, who thought Nowitzki was off-balance on the play. "I'm not looking (for) revenge."

Link

Maybe he'd still be interested in playing for Dallas?

[dirno2000]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Man I just don't see it Dirno.

The decision to go after AK at all is certainly up for debate. You can make the case that Dirk should have just let him shoot. I can buy that. And as a result of that decision AK got hurt, so I can buy that as an argument for the penalty.

But I'm sorry, but I do not buy, at all, that Dirk could have gotten his arm dislodged there. Not at all. Those pictures show it clearly, and then when you watch the replay and see what an akward angle he was at, I think it's plain that once the commitment was made, there wasn't much Dirk could do to change it.

He was lower to the ground than AK, his arm was over his shoulder and under his neck. It was pinned. The only thing that allowed him to get away from the neck was falling further down.

If you watch the second highlight in this video, you can see just how much momentum he had, I just don't get how he was supposed to do anything but allow his arm to continue to swing. I mean that would just defy physics to pull your arm out while whipping around like that.

I had to run home for lunch so I reviewed the play in super slow motion a couple of times. I was wrong on a couple of points but my overall impression of what happened still stands.

Dirk went in for the block from Kirilenko’s side. When Kirilenko pumped, Dirk’s left leg brushed against him and he started to go down. On his way down Dirk was able to make a better play on the ball than I originally thought. He swatted down with his arm completely straight didn’t miss it by much. If he pulls his arm back at this point (and he could have because his body hadn’t become contorted yet) then he gives up the 3-point play. Instead, he hooked his arm at a 90 degree angle in order to bring Kirilenko down and prevent him from scoring.

One point that I will concede is that by the time he gets to the point that the picture was taken, it was too late to pull his arm away. And we all agree that from an injury standpoint it wouldn’t have mattered anyway.

Unfortunately, at that point the damage was done. As soon he missed the ball and hooked the neck it was a flagrant II IMO.

All that being said, I think we win the game. Houston is a nice little team but they’re not the 72’ Lakers. They’re going to lose pretty soon and this seems like a prime spot. On the road against a division rival that’s hungry for a win and fighting even harder because it’s missing it’s best player.

[jthig32]

Alright, that's as close as I'm going to come to winning I guess.

I wish I felt that confident about tonight's game.

[LonghornDub]

My argument above about how the NBA makes judgments without due consideration of the player's intent is reflected by Dirk's comments this morning:

Q: Did you feel like you didn't get a fair hearing?:

A: I got the hearing, but I figured they already had their mind made up. I don't know why they waited til yesterday, they could have contacted me on Tuesday, so I don't know what they do in that office.

http://startelegram.typepad.com/mavs_fullcourt_press/

[jthig32]

The rest of that interview is really good. I recommend everyone click the link. Thanks for the posting that PDubya.

[fluid.forty.one]

here it is:

March 06, 2008
Dirk's take on suspension

Dirk Nowitzki won't be allowed in the American Airlines Center tonight when the Mavs take on the surging Rockets in a big Western Conference showdown. Suspended by the league Wednesday for one game for his flagrant foul against Utah's Andrei Kirilenko, Nowitzki spoke to reporters after Thursday morning's shootaround. Here's a Q&A:

Q: Do you agree with the suspension?

A: I don't think it was intentionally so we don't agree there. I caught in the air and really was going to take a bad fall. I tried to grab him and happened to grab him by the neck, so it was just a bad play, very, very unfortunate, but things happen in this league. I guess I have to take the suspension. Obviously, very disappointed, it's a big game, we've been struggling, Houston's hot, so it's a game where I definitely would love to be out there and help my team win. It's disappionting, but I've got to take it. To me, the guys at the NBA, they make the decisions and they never played the sport in their lives. They don't know what it is, they don't know how it feels like to be out there and get caught in the air, so they really don't know what's going on in the play.

Q: How hard will it be to not to be there tonight?

A: It'll be tough. I can't even be in the building, so I've got to be at home and watch it. It will be definitely a very disappointing and empty feeling, but I've got to fight through it and hopefully the team will step up. [Brandon] Bass is ready and we've got Malik Allen now and he's come in and made some shots for us before, and Juwan Howard is a pro, so I think all of the guys will make up for me.

Q: What did you tell the league when they called you for your take?:

A: That's what they always do. In the morning, they had me talk to some security person, I told him my side of the story and then after practice they didn't call me back, they just called Keith Grant and told him I was suspended. They didn't feel the need to talk to me again, so I figure why even bother calling them in the morning and telling my story if I was suspended anyway, I think they already had their mind made up, so it was for nothing.

Q: Did you feel like you didn't get a fair hearing?:

A: I got the hearing, but I figured they already had their mind made up. I don't know why they waited til yesterday, they could have contacted me on Tuesday, so I don't know what they do in that office. But, I will take the suspension and move on.

Q: How did you feel when the foul happened?:

A: Bad, bad feeling. First of all, he's a fellow European. I know him very well, we played against each other growing up so I have a lot of respect for him. And I don't play ever to hurt people and I think everybody knows that, it was just an unfortunate incident. As soon as he got up and walked over I wanted to see if he was OK, but he couldn't really say much to me. At halftime I went up to their trainer that I know and asked him how he's doing. So, I mean, I felt bad, but plays like that happen in this league. You have athletes going at each other at 100 mph and everybody's going fast and playing hard and stuff happens.

Q: What about the foul do you think made the league decide to go with a suspension?:

A: You have to ask the league. I guess they were saying I grabbed him around the neck and threw him down, that's not what happened. Like I said, it may look on film like that. I lost my balance and the only way I could grab him was around the neck and everything happened so quick. If they think that was intentional, then that's what they think. Like I said, they've never played this game in their lives...I'm a big boy so if I fall to the ground and try to held on to something...; I think the unfortunate part was that Kirilenko jumped up, too. If he would have stayed on the ground and then I would have just landed awkward on his back then everything would be OK. But, it was unfortunate that he jumped in the air and I happened to like get him out of the air. I think that's what the tough part was.

Q: What's the most difficult part of missing this game?:

This is a big homestand for us. We're almost tied with the eighth spot and we feel like at home we have to need to gain some ground here. We haven't played well on the road, we've lost some big games on the road. So, I think this is our time to put a little winning streak together with the new team. That's why I'm very disappointed I can't be there tonight. Hopefully the team will pull it out and I'll be back in full force on Saturday.

Q: Where will you watch the game?:

A: I haven't decided yet if I should go out and watch it at a bar with some fans. But, since I don't feel that great, been a little sick, I might just watch at home.

Q: Is there a sense among players that league won't tolerate any hard fouls anymore?:

A: The league did a good job over the years cleaning the game up, I understand that, you don't want a lot of those plays all the time. Ever since the fight broke out in Detroit, I think they did a good job of cleaning the league up, the hard fouls, and sometimes you know, you've just got to be a man and take it.

-- Jeff Caplan

[dirno2000]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Alright, that's as close as I'm going to come to winning I guess.

I wish I felt that confident about tonight's game.

We've had enough win streaks over the past few years to know that they become burdonsome at around the 15 game mark. I remember having one of our big streaks broken by an average Lakers team last year. And didn't PHX have a 17 game win streak broken at Minn? After a while it's like you're due for nothing to go right. This is going to be a tough spot for them to pick up #17.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by dirno2000

We've had enough win streaks over the past few years to know that they become burdonsome at around the 15 game mark. I remember having one of our big streaks broken by an average Lakers team last year. And didn't PHX have a 17 game win streak broken at Minn? After a while it's like you're due for nothing to go right. This is going to be a tough spot for them to pick up #17.

That's true.

Hmmmm. Dirno is breathing optimism into me. I will have retribution if they lose, man.

[fluid.forty.one]

If Houston can win without Yao.. we can win without Dirk. (not comparing the two's importance of course.. it's just that houston's supporting cast sucks for the most part.)

[Flacolaco]

Originally Posted by jthig32

That's true.

Hmmmm. Dirno is breathing optimism into me. I will have retribution if they lose, man.

Just think about the kinds of things you might see George and Stack doing where Dirk would've been shooting the ball.

[fluid.forty.one]

Can we get an over/under on Josh Howard's shot attempts?

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

Can we get an over/under on Josh Howard's shot attempts?

I'd set it at about 24, and I don't think that's an overestimate.

[Flacolaco]

Originally Posted by ProdigyDub

I'd set it at about 24, and I don't think that's an overestimate.

Nor do I.

I'd be happy if he made 10 of them. He needs to try to get to the line tonight if the mavs are going to have a chance. They all do.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

Nor do I.

I'd be happy if he made 10 of them. He needs to try to get to the line tonight if the mavs are going to have a chance. They all do.

Yep. I'm going to have an aneurism if we have any possessions where Kidd passes the ball to Josh with 20 seconds left on the shot clock, and the ball doesn't leave his hands until there are <5 seconds left.

[fluid.forty.one]

Originally Posted by ProdigyDub

Yep. I'm going to have an aneurism if we have any possessions where Kidd passes the ball to Josh with 20 seconds left on the shot clock, and the ball doesn't leave his hands until there are <5 seconds left.

You better put your local hospital on speed dial then.

[Dave McNulla]

Originally Posted by DavidDaMonkey

Well whats the point of defense if he wasn't trying to keep him from making the layup?

he did not play defense. he yanked him to the ground. if i have to explain further, you won't get it.

my point is that dirk admitted to intentionally holding him.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Dave McNulla

he did not play defense. he yanked him to the ground. if i have to explain further, you won't get it.

my point is that dirk admitted to intentionally holding him.

Don't you have to grab somebody to "yank" them? Don't you also have to grab them to "hold" them?

Please explain the mechanics involved in grabbing somebody when your hand is facing away from their body (I promise I'll try to "get it" if you promise to base your explanation in reality...)

[LonghornDub]

The irony of a Spurs fan talking about dirty plays is bound to make the d-m.com server explode any second now.

[Dirkadirkastan]

Originally Posted by Dave McNulla

he did not play defense. he yanked him to the ground. if i have to explain further, you won't get it.

my point is that dirk admitted to intentionally holding him.

Piss poor explanation. Bad marks, sir.

[Tokey41]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Maybe he'd still be interested in playing for Dallas?

I wish, I can't find a player that would compliment Dirk more. But that dream is dead, the Jazz are playing too well, the AK/Sloan issues have been resolved, trade talk has died, and of course the deadline has passed. I think a Howard-AK swap would benefit both teams greatly (but i'm probably in the miniority on that one).

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Tokey41

I wish, I can't find a player that would compliment Dirk more. But that dream is dead, the Jazz are playing too well, the AK/Sloan issues have been resolved, trade talk has died, and of course the deadline has passed. I think a Howard-AK swap would benefit both teams greatly (but i'm probably in the miniority on that one).

There's always next season - maybe AK-47 will sleep with Sloan's wife between now and then...

I'm not sure if I'd trade Josh for him, but that depends on whether or not Josh snaps out of his funk...

[ty]

Charles: If AK ate a Happy Meal, he wouldn't have fallen like that. AK needs to eat happy meals.

Kenny: Why is that?

Charles: So he can get fat!

Ernie: rolls eyes