Sporting News Top 50 Players - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

aexchange · 02-28-2002, 03:44 PM

4 Mavs made the cut for the top 50.
12. Dirty Dirk
18. Filthy Finley
36. Nasty Nash
46. Nick the Quick

Some of the selections were really questionable. For instance how the hell does Ray Allen get ranked higher than Dirk. Name one GM who would trade Dirk for Ray Allen.

Edited: Oops, forgot the link.

Sporting News NBA Top 50 Players

seelenjaeger · 02-28-2002, 04:11 PM

great list

Including dominant guys like Keith Van Horn and David Robinson while leaving out guys like Ben Wallace ...

no comment

Hoopsmeister · 02-28-2002, 04:19 PM

Yep. This list is very, very shaky.

TheKid · 02-28-2002, 05:07 PM

Pretty much the only person I can say I STRONGLY disagree with on this list is where they have Nash and Marbury. If they interchange those two, then this list isn't that much off.

OzMavs · 02-28-2002, 05:45 PM

I disagree with this list. I would expect:

Dirk: Top 10

Nash: somehwere 10-20

Finley: somewhere 20- 30

Van Exel: somewhere 30- 40

LaFrentz: somewhere between 45-50

Maybe this a bias, but we probably have the hottest players from two teams after the trade.

djb · 02-28-2002, 05:50 PM

What an outrage! Where's Juwan?? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img] And I'm sorry but there's no way Kobe's the second best player in the league. Take out Shaq and they're scrapping with LAC for a playoff spot.

Murphy3 · 02-28-2002, 05:57 PM

the sporting news has always been kinda hard on dirk..not sure why...

finley that high?..well, to be honest, he should be ranked somewhere near that spot in guards alone.

Hoopsmeister · 02-28-2002, 06:05 PM

<< What an outrage! Where's Juwan?? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img] And I'm sorry but there's no way Kobe's the second best player in the league. Take out Shaq and they're scrapping with LAC for a playoff spot. >>

Amen. Kobe is the most over-rated player in the league. Not that he's not good. But without Shaq, the Lakers are a .500 team. Before the T-wolves got Wally World, KG was the lone superstar on his team, and this year, with Robinson doing a Ewing imitation, Duncan is the lone superstar on his team and both have been able to lift their teams higher than Kobe has on his own. Steve Francis (when he plays) makes the Rockets a .500 team.

grbh · 02-28-2002, 06:10 PM

True that without Shaq the Lakers are a .500 team, but what would they be wothout Kobe and Shaq. This is not intended for shock value, but they woud be the worst team in the league. Now granted they would have cap room to go pick up some better players, but this team as it is without Shaq and Kobe would be the worst in the NBA.

Hoopsmeister · 02-28-2002, 06:23 PM

Remove the top 2 players off most teams and they would be the worst in the league. The few possible exceptions (Kings, Mavs, Portland) are the ones that continually have their depth talked about.

T-Wolves without KG and Wally
San Antonio without Duncan (much less Duncan & Robinson)
Orlando without McGrady
Toronto without Carter (just lost 7 straight without him and 2 more with him at less than 100%)

Take the top 2 players off every team in the league and the Lakers aren't even close to the worst though they certainly aren't championship contenders.

grbh · 02-28-2002, 07:23 PM

I disagree Hoops. The only things the guys after Shaq and Kobe can do is shoot 3s and play some decent D. Pretty good there, but I did a little research and their FG% are awful. I didn't check on every team, but I did a couple.

3-8 Player for the Lakers FG% 41.9
3-8 Player for the Wolves FG% 47.3
3-8 Players for the Grizzlies FG% 42.4

We also have to remember that the Lakers' minimums get a lot of open looks.

They may not be the worst, but they would be right there.

Oh well I suppose it is a moot point because we will be playing against Shaq and Kobe.

MikeFin4 · 02-28-2002, 08:51 PM

Wow Lamar Odom makes the list and he has played no where near his capabilities. Now that I think of it, he has missed more than half their games. That should really tell you something, Lamar Odom is also the youngest player on the list. What talent that guy has, and Murphy3 Finley belongs exactly where he is.

Murphy3 · 02-28-2002, 09:21 PM

i can't imagine there are many people around the NBA that believe finley is a top 20 guy.
actually, i believe there are many that argue that he is the 4th best on the mavs team.

18th is just too high. nothing he has done actually backs up that ranking

djb · 02-28-2002, 09:23 PM

Finley and Houston are pretty similar players (Fin's better but I wouldn't say by a whole lot), but Houston's ranked #44. Should tell you something about the ratings. I'll at least agree with him being in the current Top 50 though.

MikeFin4 · 02-28-2002, 09:29 PM

4th best? behind who? Finley is the best player on this team, while I think Nash is the most important. Finley is better than anyone on the Mavs team, and I would much rather have him on my team in the closing seconds than anyone else on the current roster. I agree with you there DJ, they are similar somewhat but Finley is head AND shoulders above Houston. Yes Houston belongs in a better position but Fin is much much better.

djb · 02-28-2002, 09:32 PM

Yes I agree Fin is better than Houston, but I was just pointing out their positioning in the ranking. Do you think Fin is a Top 20 player in the league? Skill-wise, I don't think so (he does have a number of intangibles though).

Murphy3 · 02-28-2002, 09:35 PM

dj, yes..fin has some intangibles..but so do just about every legitimate top 50 player in the NBA.
look how many clutch players the mavs have alone...
you could make a strong case that dirk, nash, and van exel have just as many intangibles as fin..which, really isn't worth arguing over..just making a point.

but, you do see what i'm saying...yes, fin has intangibles..but basically so does "most" of the top 50 players in the NBA

djb · 02-28-2002, 09:37 PM

Oh yea I totally agree murph. That's why I don't think he's a Top 20 player..BECAUSE intangibles should not play a factor (being Top 20 = being a Top 20 player, skillwise).

MikeFin4 · 02-28-2002, 09:49 PM

Yes I think skill wise Finley belongs right where he is. Yes I am a little biased but Finley is the man. I think Finley is the best player on the Mavs current roster.

Bayliss · 02-28-2002, 09:51 PM

This is what is sad in my eyes..... Ray Allen is #11. You can tell most voted with their heart and not production.

Bayliss · 02-28-2002, 09:54 PM

<< I think Finley is the best player on the Mavs current roster. >>

Um, that is way off. If you said "heart" then that would be debatable because showing heart is subjective. But looking at the numbers (which most people base whether one player is better than another on) Dirk is **far superior**.

MikeFin4 · 02-28-2002, 09:55 PM

Ray Allen belongs there, he is a darn good shooter and not so bad of an defender. He is on a team where 3 players avg over 20. The Bucks are the only team that has 3 players avging over 20. If he was on another team, he would avg more IMO. Ray Allen definitely belongs at #11, for not only his offense but his defense as well. What I don't agree with is Paul Pierce at #13, that is a shame. He is a top 10 player in this league, and will continue to be IMO.

MikeFin4 · 02-28-2002, 09:57 PM

It's a little more than just #'s Bayliss, it takes a person with real Basketball knowledge to know that.

Murphy3 · 02-28-2002, 10:00 PM

the biggest joke has got to be walker at 24
that is ludicrous

aexchange · 02-28-2002, 10:02 PM

edit

Murphy3 · 02-28-2002, 10:02 PM

it didn't take you long to insult someone's basketball knowledge.

this has got to be a new record....11 posts in and you've already insulted someone's basketball knowledge.

well, bayliss is a very intelligent poster. I would have to say that most of the board would agree that finley shouldn't be ranked quite that high and that dirk should probably be a little higher

Novice#41 · 02-28-2002, 10:26 PM

i love to see dirk on 12.
but i feel sorry for steve - just 36. ... [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]

MikeFin4 · 02-28-2002, 10:43 PM

I am really no understanding some of the posts that are coming up, are you all saying that I insulted someone? If so, I apologize. I was merely saying that someone like a coach, player, or someone of that nature would understand a player and how valuable he is. I wasn't trying to insult anyone, why would I? Yes Murphy, with your biasness I could see why YOU would want Dirk higher. I am sure everyone else would want him higher but if you go on another teams Message Board they would want there players ranked higher. I just don't see how 1 of his local team board members would want him ranked lower. I just do not get that, as much as Finley has given this team. He has given this team great production year in and year out. He was here before Nash and Dirk, he has given the team more than either of them. Some fans the Mavs have, they wont their best player ranked lower on a rating system.

Epitome22 · 02-28-2002, 10:50 PM

I've been at odds with Murphy before but I agree, I think Fin is ranked too high. You'll occasionally hear some discussion from people that Michael Finley is one of the more underrated players in the association. I disagree, I think he might even be a tad overrated. He might very well be one of the top 50 in the association but if he is, I'd have him somehwere around 45-50.

MikeFin4 · 02-28-2002, 11:11 PM

45-50, ok everyone who thinks Fin is ranked in that area play say so. Yes please reply and say they think that Fin is ranked 45-50 in the league.

Hales233 · 02-28-2002, 11:19 PM

I have no problem with Ray Allen at #11...y'all need to stop dogging him.

MikeFin4 · 02-28-2002, 11:24 PM

I am just now seeing this Steve Nash at 36, that's ridiculous. That really pisses me off that guys are so damn dumb that they put the most important person on a 2nd place team #36. I mean come on, no one can be that damn dumb. Steve Nash belongs in the top 25 IMO.

TheKid · 03-01-2002, 09:56 AM

"We asked one general manager or personnel man from each team to rank the league's top players based on current ability -- not potential or past performance -- and O'Neal came up No. 1 on 15 of the 18 ballots received."

This is how this list was made up. So I'm assuming this necessarily wasn't SPORTING NEWS rankings it had alot to do with what organizations thought.

Also, the biasness of some of the posts are really coming out. I mean we're all Mavericks fans so of course WE think Dirk should be higher and Nash should be higher, (then you have the others who thinks Fin is over rated and want to see him gone anyway so they think he's overrated) but I'm sure there's someone who is a Grizzlie fans whose pissed off Gasol is not on this list. My point is, if we REALLY take out our biasness we'll see this list is NOT THAT inaccurate. I mean right now in the season, because of the season Fin probably shouldn't be as high but we're talking about a guy who has a sore hammy and still manages to average 19 points a game. While we all think Nash has been GROSSLY ranked low, remember there are MANY other GM's and fans who thinks Nash is a product of Nellie's system. Now they'd be wrong but that's my opinion. Also, while there aren't many people who don't think Dirk isn't one of the top players in the league, to be considered top 12 is not a slap in the face by NO MEANS!!! Now I would have put him higher but that's me and I get to watch FAR more games of Dirks than the average NBA fan does or the average NBA GM or owner or coach.

So people please recognize while we may not agree with this list, we have no right to call anyone dumb or unknowledgeable because we don't agree with what they say. Well you can if you want but in my opinion that makes you just as bad.

MFFL · 03-01-2002, 10:05 AM

I thought the more interesting article was the "notes" section. The Mavs are the only NBA team to have 4 players.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Top 50 notebook
February 28, 2002 Print it
Dan Graf
The Sporting News

How we ranked them

The rankings: 1-25 | 26-50
Interesting tidbits and facts about the top 50 players:

WHERE THEY PLAY

Quantity of quality doesn't necessarily result in championships. After all, four teams have at least three players in the top 50, but the two-time defending champion Lakers have only two.

The Bulls were one of two teams without a top 50 player until they acquired Jalen Rose from the Pacers last week.

Four players: Mavericks
Three players: Timberwolves, Kings, Bucks
Two players: Lakers, Spurs, Magic, 76ers, Raptors, Nets, Celtics, Jazz, Hornets, Clippers, Suns, Knicks, Pacers
One player: SuperSonics, Wizards, Rockets, Blazers, Pistons, Hawks, Heat, Cavaliers, Warriors, Bulls, Nuggets
No players: Grizzlies

A YOUNG MAN'S GAME

When is an NBA player in his prime? Well, the average age of a player on our list of the top 50 is 27.1. Lamar Odom, 22, is the youngest. John Stockton, 39, is the oldest. Only 15 of the top 50 players are 30 or older.

Age Players
22 3
23 5
24 2
25 9
26 4
27 3
28 1
29 8
30 2
31 2
32 2
33 2
34 1
35 1
36 2
37 0
38 1
39 2

COMINGS AND GOINGS

TSN last ranked the league's top 50 players two years ago, and much has changed.

Players added since 1999-2000: Tracy McGrady (5), Dirk Nowitzki (12), Michael Jordan (14), Peja Stojakovic (19), Baron Davis (22), Jermaine O'Neal (34), Andre Miller (35), Steve Nash (36), Jalen Rose (37), Shawn Marion (40), Jamal Mashburn (42), Wally Szczerbiak (43), Nick Van Exel (46), Antonio Davis (49).

Players dropped since 1999-2000: Eddie Jones (21), Scottie Pippen (23), Shawn Kemp (28), Vin Baker (33), Tom Gugliotta (36), Tim Hardaway (37), Patrick Ewing (41), Ron Mercer (42), Hakeem Olajuwon (43), Glen Rice (44), Steve Smith (46), Mike Bibby (47), Derrick Coleman (48), Toni Kukoc (49).

WHERE THEY WERE DRAFTED

1st overall (7): Shaquille O'Neal (1992), Tim Duncan (1997), Allen Iverson (1996), Chris Webber (1993), Elton Brand (1999), David Robinson (1987), Glenn Robinson (1994)
2nd (6): Jason Kidd (1994), Gary Payton (1990), Steve Francis (1999), Alonzo Mourning (1992), Antonio McDyess (1995), Keith Van Horn (1997)
3rd (5): Michael Jordan (1984), Jerry Stackhouse (1995), Baron Davis (1999), Shareef Abdur-Rahim (1996), Grant Hill (1994)
4th (6): Rasheed Wallace (1995), Dikembe Mutombo (1991), Stephon Marbury (1996), Antawn Jamison (1998), Jamal Mashburn (1993), Lamar Odom (1999)
5th (3): Kevin Garnett (1995), Vince Carter (1998), Ray Allen (1996)
6th (2): Antoine Walker (1996), Wally Szczerbiak (1999)
8th (1): Andre Miller (1999)
9th (3): Tracy McGrady (1997), Dirk Nowitzki (1998), Shawn Marion (1999)
10th (1): Paul Pierce (1998)
11th (3): Reggie Miller (1987), Allan Houston (1993), Terrell Brandon (1991)
13th (3): Kobe Bryant (1996), Karl Malone (1985), Jalen Rose (1994)
14th (1): Peja Stojakovic (1996)
15th (1): Steve Nash (1996)
16th (1): John Stockton (1984)
17th (1): Jermaine O'Neal (1996)
21st (1): Michael Finley (1995)
24th (2): Latrell Sprewell (1992), Sam Cassell (1993)
26th (1): Vlade Divac (1989)
37th (1): Nick Van Exel (1993)
45th (1): Antonio Davis (1990)

ODDS AND ENDS

General managers and personnel men were asked to rank the top 30 players, and TSN ranked 50 players based on the voting. Only 10 players were ranked in the top 30 on every ballot: Shaquille O'Neal, Kobe Bryant, Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, Tracy McGrady, Allen Iverson, Vince Carter, Jason Kidd, Ray Allen and Paul Pierce.

These players received votes but didn't make the top 50 cut: Richard Hamilton (Wizards), Marcus Camby (Knicks), Jamaal Tinsley (Pacers), Cuttino Mobley (Rockets), Kenyon Martin (Nets), Danny Fortson (Warriors), Rashard Lewis (SuperSonics) and Bonzi Wells (Trail Blazers).

Only five centers made the top 50. Forwards outpaced guards, 24-21. Two years ago, seven centers (goodbye, Hakeem Olajuwon and Patrick Ewing), 24 forwards and 19 guards made the list.

Eight top 50 players never have played in a playoff game. Pierce (Celtics) is the highest-ranked of those players, at No. 13.

MFFL · 03-01-2002, 10:09 AM

Only 15 players are 30 or older.

Hoopsmeister · 03-01-2002, 01:46 PM

<< "We asked one general manager or personnel man from each team to rank the league's top players based on current ability -- not potential or past performance -- and O'Neal came up No. 1 on 15 of the 18 ballots received."

This is how this list was made up. So I'm assuming this necessarily wasn't SPORTING NEWS rankings it had alot to do with what organizations thought. >>

"General managers and personnel men were asked to rank the top 30 players, and TSN ranked 50 players based on the voting"

That's awefully vague about how TSN 'based' their rankings on the personnel people's voting. Did they just weight the votes and go with that (in that case, why not show us the weighted score) or did they look at the votes and comments and use that as advisory on their own article?

As for the list just a couple of things about why I think its shaky as hell:
1) The leading candidate for Defensive Player of the Year isn't even on it.
2) David Robinson is #27
3) Marbury is #26, Stockton is #29 and Nash is #36. I understand what you are saying about the system theKid, but remember that the coaches voting directly put Nash on the All-Star team and not Marbury or Stockton (who is on the 50 greatest ever and is top 5 at least for players over 35 but who probably does not belong on this current list at all)

Murphy3 · 03-01-2002, 01:53 PM

i'm always very wary of The sporting news' agenda.... doesn't anyone remember them calling St Louis the best sports town in america?

i love their baseball stats and coverage..however, i don't put alot of stock in their lists and rankings....

sorry, just my hso

grbh · 03-01-2002, 03:48 PM

What I find amazing is that there was a GM out there who doesn't put Dirk in the top 30 in the league.

Above it says only 10 players were ranked in the top 30 on every ballot. Dirk was not amongst those players.