2018 NBA Draft

[hayth.james.g]

Seems like Doncic is falling off hard here. I guess it makes sense from a fit perspective. I personally love his game and what he will bring to the NBA.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by hayth.james.g

Seems like Doncic is falling off hard here. I guess it makes sense from a fit perspective. I personally love his game and what he will bring to the NBA.

This draft doesn't really have a Lebron/Dirk superstar IMO. All of the top players fall just a half step below that. And all of them seem to have a similar ceiling from the tons of videos, scouting reports, games watched, etc. etc.

If the Mavs picked Doncic, then I'd support it. No way you don't know who is who in this lottery. Scouting would have done their homework.

What you really need to watch out for is who jumps up like Mitchell did last draft. That is what will truly make this draft intriguing.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by hayth.james.g

Seems like Doncic is falling off hard here. I guess it makes sense from a fit perspective. I personally love his game and what he will bring to the NBA.

I've never been as high on Doncic as everyone else... These were my rankings a month ago:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Ayton
Porter
Jackson
Bridges
Bagley
Doncic
Bamba

Bamba recently shot up my list after seeing his much-improved jumper, but the problem with Doncic has always been his fit next to Dennis. He'll be a fine player, but the Mavs have better options when it comes to core-building. Like I said before, if they draft Doncic then they should look to trade Dennis, otherwise they're going to blow their highest draft picks in years on guys with similar skillsets (and I don't see them picking this high again any time soon).

[Bryan_Wilson]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I've never been as high on Doncic as everyone else... These were my rankings a month ago:



Bamba recently shot up my list after seeing his much-improved jumper, but the problem with Doncic has always been his fit next to Dennis. He'll be a fine player, but the Mavs have better options when it comes to core-building. Like I said before, if they draft Doncic then they should look to trade Dennis, otherwise they're going to blow their highest draft picks in years on guys with similar skillsets (and I don't see them picking this high again any time soon).

I'm curious why people think Doncic and DSJ would be such a terrible fit we would have to trade DSJ? I understand the concern about his possibly capped upside from athleticism, but I always counter with his elite bbiq which I believe more than off sets any concern but it's just my opinion nothing to base it on really. I think today's nba requires you to have more than one ball handler, and not just a ball handler but they better both be one of the best players on the team. The teams that have struggled the most seem to be the ones who only had one guy on the floor who can create plays and a defense can be implemented to at least force them into bad sets. If Harden and CP3 can co-exist and the trio of playmakers on the GSW's can all co-exist, and teams like the Raptors where the best player basically creates his own shot and nothing else. Then when Lowry is off the floor, and he isn't my ideal pg but when he's gone Derozan isn't creating for others, and you have a true backup pg caliber player creating for others. Offenses become stale and leads slip. A better example might be the pacers. When Oladipo was off the floor how hard was it to score? When he was on the floor all it took was sending a high double to force it out of his hands and the Pacers looked lost.

It might be recency bias and super team effect but Idk why we would have to trade DSJ if we drafted Doncic. Even if Doncic isn't drafted I can promise everyone here DSJ will play off ball next year just like this year and I'd rather that player with the ball be Doncic or in the future a starting caliber player not simply a backup pg and not a 2nd 6'0 pg at that. The only requirement to make it work is that both players become great at playing off the ball with cuts and 3pt ability. And I see no reason both shouldn't be fantastic at that?

[hayth.james.g]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

I'm curious why people think Doncic and DSJ would be such a terrible fit we would have to trade DSJ? I understand the concern about his possibly capped upside from athleticism, but I always counter with his elite bbiq which I believe more than off sets any concern but it's just my opinion nothing to base it on really. I think today's nba requires you to have more than one ball handler, and not just a ball handler but they better both be one of the best players on the team. The teams that have struggled the most seem to be the ones who only had one guy on the floor who can create plays and a defense can be implemented to at least force them into bad sets. If Harden and CP3 can co-exist and the trio of playmakers on the GSW's can all co-exist, and teams like the Raptors where the best player basically creates his own shot and nothing else. Then when Lowry is off the floor, and he isn't my ideal pg but when he's gone Derozan isn't creating for others, and you have a true backup pg caliber player creating for others. Offenses become stale and leads slip. A better example might be the pacers. When Oladipo was off the floor how hard was it to score? When he was on the floor all it took was sending a high double to force it out of his hands and the Pacers looked lost.

It might be recency bias and super team effect but Idk why we would have to trade DSJ if we drafted Doncic. Even if Doncic isn't drafted I can promise everyone here DSJ will play off ball next year just like this year and I'd rather that player with the ball be Doncic or in the future a starting caliber player not simply a backup pg and not a 2nd 6'0 pg at that. The only requirement to make it work is that both players become great at playing off the ball with cuts and 3pt ability. And I see no reason both shouldn't be fantastic at that?

Personally, I think it's only an issue if they either both A. Can't shoot or B play defense. I understand that out of the top 5 prospects, 3-4 are centers which immediately screams ideal fit + BPA. I just think at the end of the day, you don't pass on a player like Doncic. But that assumes you believe, like I do, that he is on another level.

[Bryan_Wilson]

Originally Posted by hayth.james.g

Personally, I think it's only an issue if they either both A. Can't shoot or B play defense. I understand that out of the top 5 prospects, 3-4 are centers which immediately screams ideal fit + BPA. I just think at the end of the day, you don't pass on a player like Doncic. But that assumes you believe, like I do, that he is on another level.

The only fit problem I can see is on defense. But I think he could defend 3's the kicker would be can Barnes defend 2's? I still have him as 3rd behind Ayton and Bamba but he's still my favorite player in the draft if that makes sense.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

I'm curious why people think Doncic and DSJ would be such a terrible fit we would have to trade DSJ? I understand the concern about his possibly capped upside from athleticism, but I always counter with his elite bbiq which I believe more than off sets any concern but it's just my opinion nothing to base it on really. I think today's nba requires you to have more than one ball handler, and not just a ball handler but they better both be one of the best players on the team. The teams that have struggled the most seem to be the ones who only had one guy on the floor who can create plays and a defense can be implemented to at least force them into bad sets. If Harden and CP3 can co-exist and the trio of playmakers on the GSW's can all co-exist, and teams like the Raptors where the best player basically creates his own shot and nothing else. Then when Lowry is off the floor, and he isn't my ideal pg but when he's gone Derozan isn't creating for others, and you have a true backup pg caliber player creating for others. Offenses become stale and leads slip. A better example might be the pacers. When Oladipo was off the floor how hard was it to score? When he was on the floor all it took was sending a high double to force it out of his hands and the Pacers looked lost.

It might be recency bias and super team effect but Idk why we would have to trade DSJ if we drafted Doncic. Even if Doncic isn't drafted I can promise everyone here DSJ will play off ball next year just like this year and I'd rather that player with the ball be Doncic or in the future a starting caliber player not simply a backup pg and not a 2nd 6'0 pg at that. The only requirement to make it work is that both players become great at playing off the ball with cuts and 3pt ability. And I see no reason both shouldn't be fantastic at that?

The bolded part is exactly the problem though -- from what I've seen, neither guy is particularly great at playing off the ball (unlike Harden and Paul). Like, you get 50% of the player when the ball is out of their hands... I mean, there's nothing wrong with adding another ball handler next to DSJ, but I'd rather get someone who actually thrives when playing off the ball (like Malik Newman in the 2nd round), especially since the price would be the highest draft pick we've had in years... If Doncic was an obvious generational talent, then I might be willing to try it out, but it's not like he's clearly better than Ayton, Bagley, Jackson, Bamba, Porter, etc. (even in a vacuum). I just don't see enough of a difference in overall talent to ignore fit and declare Doncic the BPA where we'll be picking.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

I'm curious why people think Doncic and DSJ would be such a terrible fit we would have to trade DSJ? I understand the concern about his possibly capped upside from athleticism, but I always counter with his elite bbiq which I believe more than off sets any concern but it's just my opinion nothing to base it on really. I think today's nba requires you to have more than one ball handler, and not just a ball handler but they better both be one of the best players on the team. The teams that have struggled the most seem to be the ones who only had one guy on the floor who can create plays and a defense can be implemented to at least force them into bad sets. If Harden and CP3 can co-exist and the trio of playmakers on the GSW's can all co-exist, and teams like the Raptors where the best player basically creates his own shot and nothing else. Then when Lowry is off the floor, and he isn't my ideal pg but when he's gone Derozan isn't creating for others, and you have a true backup pg caliber player creating for others. Offenses become stale and leads slip. A better example might be the pacers. When Oladipo was off the floor how hard was it to score? When he was on the floor all it took was sending a high double to force it out of his hands and the Pacers looked lost.

It might be recency bias and super team effect but Idk why we would have to trade DSJ if we drafted Doncic. Even if Doncic isn't drafted I can promise everyone here DSJ will play off ball next year just like this year and I'd rather that player with the ball be Doncic or in the future a starting caliber player not simply a backup pg and not a 2nd 6'0 pg at that. The only requirement to make it work is that both players become great at playing off the ball with cuts and 3pt ability. And I see no reason both shouldn't be fantastic at that?

This.

Also, to try and compare a rookie and 2nd year player with harden and cp3 is too high of a bar to set or even be concerned with. Sure Mathews can play off the ball and shoot the 3 and play defense, but that is it. Hes not even a good passer. At least doncic sees the floor infinitely better than anyone else in the range we are looking so not only can he create his own offense, but he is taking some load off Dsj and making others better / getting them better looks.

I do not see how he doesnt fit next to Dsj.

I can find positives of anyone that has been mentioned by people here, but to me its unfair or maybe even silly to mention some of these guys as not a fit. It's likely going to take a year or maybe even a cpl years for anyone we get to settle in and show the promise we hope for. We are lucky dsj is way ahead of the curve.