Dirk for MVP - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

EastDallasCowboy · 02-28-2006, 03:19 AM

And when he wins that title, I'l eat my crow and call him great.

Until then, he's an over-hyped baller.

Arne · 02-28-2006, 05:12 AM

LeBron James (21 years old.):

- became just the fifth player in NBA history to post averages of 27 points, 7 rebounds and 7 assists for an entire season (04-05)

- led or tied for the team lead in scoring 64 times, rebounds 16 times, assists 57 times, steals 46 times and blocks on 12 occasions (04-05)

- became the youngest player in league history to be awarded All-NBA honors

- became the youngest player and second-fastest player (Oscar Robertson) to reach career numbers of 3,500 points, 1,000 rebounds and 1,000 assists

- became the youngest player (20 years, 20 days old) in NBA history to post a triple-double with his 27 points, 11 rebounds and 10 assists at Portland on Jan. 19

- became the youngest player ever to receive the NBA Rookie of the Year award

- became the youngest player to score 1,000 points in NBA history on Feb. 9 and the youngest to score 40 points in a game on March 27

- became the youngest player ever to receive the Allstar MVP award

- became the youngest player to score 1,000 points in NBA history on Feb. 9 and the youngest to score 40 points in a game on March 27

- became the youngest player to score 2,000 points in his career when he did it on Nov. 27 at the age of 19 years, 272 days old (previously Kobe Bryant – 20 years, 184 days old

- became the youngest player ever to reach 5000 points

- became the youngest player ever to score 40 points in a game

- became the youngest player ever to score 50 points in a game

- Was 19 years, seven months and 13 days old at the start of the 2004 Olympics – the youngest player to ever compete for the U.S. men’s basketball team in the Olympics since Spencer Haywood in 1968

_______________

I only picked out the "youngest ever"-records...

V2M · 02-28-2006, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dim499

The other guy was Sam Jones 41 years ago when like in Amares case another guy from the same team won it (Bill Russell).

Thanks Dim499!

To me that's a very impressive stat wherein 13 of 15 times, the player with over 25ppg on a 75%win team has won the MVP and the two other times, his team-mates have won it!!

Can't have a more clear-cut case for Dirk than that. I'm gonna' scoreboard watch that very carefully, hereon.

Mavs: 80.3%
Dirk: 25.5ppg

Dirk-V-P!!!

Day1MavsFan · 02-28-2006, 09:30 AM

Honestly, Dirk is not as good as Kobe, LeBron, or Marion, to mention a few. But, the MVP is as much about winning as individual talent or production, which is probably how it should be. I don't see how he doesn't win it, unless the Mavs finish behind the Spurs and Pistons by more than a couple of games.

sixeightmkw · 02-28-2006, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Day1MavsFan

Honestly, Dirk is not as good as Kobe, LeBron, or Marion, to mention a few. But, the MVP is as much about winning as individual talent or production, which is probably how it should be. I don't see how he doesn't win it, unless the Mavs finish behind the Spurs and Pistons by more than a couple of games.

I agree he isn't athletic as the guys, but he is 100% the better shooter out of those guys. One of the best shots in the NBA behind Ray Allen. He lights it up in ways that those guys you mentioned can't,,, and also leads his team. After that performance last night, if there is any doubt that Dirk should be an MVP candidate, then those that doubt are dumb.

Arne · 02-28-2006, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Day1MavsFan

Honestly, Dirk is not as good as Kobe, LeBron, or Marion, to mention a few. But, the MVP is as much about winning as individual talent or production, which is probably how it should be. I don't see how he doesn't win it, unless the Mavs finish behind the Spurs and Pistons by more than a couple of games.

Dirk is at least as good as Kobe. And Marion??? ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

Arne · 02-28-2006, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixeightmkw

I agree he isn't athletic as the guys, but he is 100% the better shooter out of those guys. One of the best shots in the NBA behind Ray Allen. He lights it up in ways that those guys you mentioned can't,,, and also leads his team. After that performance last night, if there is any doubt that Dirk should be an MVP candidate, then those that doubt are dumb.

Ray Allen called Dirk Nowitzki "the best shooter in the NBA" a couple of months ago.

sixeightmkw · 02-28-2006, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arne

Ray Allen called Dirk Nowitzki "the best shooter in the NBA" a couple of months ago.

thats sweet. Ray Allen is a bad ass and I am glad he gave Dirk some praise.

DubOverdose · 02-28-2006, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Day1MavsFan

Honestly, Dirk is not as good as Kobe, LeBron, or Marion, to mention a few. But, the MVP is as much about winning as individual talent or production, which is probably how it should be. I don't see how he doesn't win it, unless the Mavs finish behind the Spurs and Pistons by more than a couple of games.

You gotta be kidding me. Kobe can barely take his team to a 500 record, LeBron has as much help as anyone yet can't get it done (not to mention he is anti-clutch), and Marion? What? Marion...there's no way in hell he's even close to Dirk. Marion is a top 20 player at best. He's a stat whore. Just because he puts up great stats doesn't mean he's a top 5 player.

Nemesis · 02-28-2006, 01:11 PM

No question here. It is still Nash. Anyone who knows anything about b-ball in the NBA knows Nash is still MVP. But this forum has shown continuously that B-Ball IQ is not it's strength.

With that being said, Dirk is looking more like (can I say it) LARRY every night.

aexchange · 02-28-2006, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Day1MavsFan

Honestly, Dirk is not as good as Kobe, LeBron, or Marion, to mention a few. But, the MVP is as much about winning as individual talent or production, which is probably how it should be. I don't see how he doesn't win it, unless the Mavs finish behind the Spurs and Pistons by more than a couple of games.

MARION?

W
T
F
?

Are you effing kidding me?

mary · 02-28-2006, 02:07 PM

Quote:

No question here. It is still Nash. Anyone who knows anything about b-ball in the NBA knows Nash is still MVP. But this forum has shown continuously that B-Ball IQ is not it's strength.

So anyone who doesn't think Nash is the MVP, just doesn't know anything about "b-ball"?

So I guess the analysts, sportswriters, and media members who have mentioned Dirk, Billups, Brand, and others - just simply have no knowledge of basketball?

I realize you are new here, but surely you can do better than that. I expect someone with your caliber of basketball knowledge to provide a little better argument than the 'ole "Anyone who doesn't agree with me is a moron" stance.

DubOverdose · 02-28-2006, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blab's Nemesis

No question here. It is still Nash. Anyone who knows anything about b-ball in the NBA knows Nash is still MVP. But this forum has shown continuously that B-Ball IQ is not it's strength.

With that being said, Dirk is looking more like (can I say it) LARRY every night.

Nash won't win it since his Suns aren't good enough. I don't care if Amare is out or not, that team is still stacked.

Drbio · 02-28-2006, 03:54 PM

Dirk-V-P!!!!

orangedays · 02-28-2006, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blab's Nemesis

No question here. It is still Nash. Anyone who knows anything about b-ball in the NBA knows Nash is still MVP. But this forum has shown continuously that B-Ball IQ is not it's strength.

With that being said, Dirk is looking more like (can I say it) LARRY every night.

First, not a good way to start posting chump.

Second, it is facetious...no...downright ignorant of you to say that anyone who knows anything about basketball "knows Nash is still the MVP". Citing, verbatim, a number of well-respected people in the league and in the media - Nash isn't even the best player on his own team. Why is Brand receiving NBA recognition? Why is Billups? Why is Dirk? If your 'analysis' is accurate, it is apparently because a healthy chunk of people associated with NBA basketball are displaying horrendously low basketball IQ. Maybe you need to rethink your opinions.

If your best way of proving your point is making critical remarks about this board - run, don't walk, to your nearest store to get a clue.

Five-ofan · 02-28-2006, 06:44 PM

A) ive said it before and ill say it again, nash didnt deserve it last year and he doesnt deserve it this year. That team was LOADED(said in ron white voice) If you look at the lineups this way
C-amare - damp
Pf Marion- dirk
SF JJ-JHO
SG QR-Fin
PG nash-jet

The only position the mavs win is the pf. You mean to tell me that dirk is a big enough of an advantage over another all star to offset ALL of the other suns advantages so that the suns only win 4 more games and he didnt deserve mvp. I disagree but ill add something else in my next point.

B) Nash's only conceivable argument for mvp was best player on best team in the west. Thats fine. If that overcomes a guy being both more important and having better numbers for you than nash's team that has a worse record than the mavs precludes him from winning the title. In essence the logic that made him the mvp last year precludes him from being the mvp this year.

C) shawn marion is still better than anyone else on this team whether they have amare or not. Nash is their mvp but Marion is good enough to bring up the too much help argument.

I can keep going but i dont really feel the need to. ABout billups Please. I wouldnt put him in the top 5 BUT if you want a reason ill just say 4>1. No one else has a record and stats combo to challenge dirk.

Milles · 02-28-2006, 09:54 PM

NBA team stretch run progress reports from SI.com:

[Quote]A Phoenix Suns

Why can't people just agree on things once in a while? At least on the obvious stuff: Starbucks is a rip-off, a CEO shouldn't make 300 times more than the 9-to-5 grunts and Steve Nash was, and is, the MVP. The Suns won 62 games last year (as compared with 29 games pre-Nash), lost three fifths of their starting lineup and are still on track to win the Pacific Division this season. What's to argue? Shaq last year? He hasn't given his all in the regular season since his first year under Phil Jackson. Chauncey Billups this season? Because he's scoring more on a team coming off back-to-back Finals appearances? No, Nash was, and is, your man. He's done it without Amaré Stoudemire and he's done it without Joe Johnson. Who else could make a dogged defender like Raja Bell into a feared offensive weapon? Who else could make Kurt Thomas effective in a fast-break offense?

You know the answer, so stop arguing.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/w ... index.html[Quote/]

wescx · 02-28-2006, 09:57 PM

A guy over at 82games.com developed a formula that has correctly picked the NBA MVP for the last 20 years. Pretty Interesting.

http://www.82games.com/wilq.htm

jayC · 02-28-2006, 10:06 PM

Amare's rookie season with Marbury the Suns won fifty games. Suddenly, Amare misses a third of the season of course they struggle. Nash isn't worth 23 games, without taking in effect the injuries effected by the rest of the roster.

If the mavs win 65 games, and Dirk doesn't win the MVP it will be robbery. Trophies are nice, but the only trophy that matters to me is the nba championship.

Nemesis · 03-01-2006, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orangedays

First, not a good way to start posting chump.

Second, it is facetious...no...downright ignorant of you to say that anyone who knows anything about basketball "knows Nash is still the MVP". Citing, verbatim, a number of well-respected people in the league and in the media - Nash isn't even the best player on his own team. Why is Brand receiving NBA recognition? Why is Billups? Why is Dirk? If your 'analysis' is accurate, it is apparently because a healthy chunk of people associated with NBA basketball are displaying horrendously low basketball IQ. Maybe you need to rethink your opinions.

If your best way of proving your point is making critical remarks about this board - run, don't walk, to your nearest store to get a clue.

You are all about the talk, chump. I could really care less about my entrance to this forum. I mostly just read anyway.

On the issue.. I stand by my opinion until proven wrong. Nash has made every player on his team into an All-Star this year (and last). Look at the players that have left Phoenix who played with Nash last year. Do you see any where close the production? No, because they are just scrubs without a point guard like Nash. Just like all the players currently for Phoenix are scrubs except for Marion, who has been turned into an MVP candidate, himself (in part b/c of Nash). How can you argue with that?

Like I said, if Dirk gets MVP--Of course he deserves it. But, that won't happen, IMO.

dude1394 · 03-01-2006, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Like I said, if Dirk gets MVP--Of course he deserves it. But, that won't happen, IMO.

How silly, how can he "deserve" it if anyone who knows basketball "knows Nash is still the MVP".

Nemesis · 03-01-2006, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

How silly, how can he "deserve" it if anyone who knows basketball "knows Nash is still the MVP".

Of course!! Please, anyone with sense knows exactly what I meant. So quit wasting your time on a chump like me and get back to your minute by minute post analysis.

MFFL · 03-01-2006, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blab's Nemesis

No question here. It is still Nash. Anyone who knows anything about b-ball in the NBA knows Nash is still MVP. But this forum has shown continuously that B-Ball IQ is not it's strength.

Marion was an All-Star before Nash. Amare was GOING to be an All-Star regardless. So despite lacking Amare, Nash still has another All-Star on his team and yet the Suns are 6 1/2 games behind the Mavs...

Anyone with a Basketball IQ above Charles Barkley recognizes that it is almost impossible to be an elite team without multiple stars. For a team to win as many games as the Mavs have with only one All-Star means that player is absolutely dominant. Dirk the best choice for MVP for those who understand basketball.

Nemesis · 03-01-2006, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFFL

Marion was an All-Star before Nash. Amare was GOING to be an All-Star regardless. So despite lacking Amare, Nash still has another All-Star on his team and yet the Suns are 6 1/2 games behind the Mavs...

Anyone with a Basketball IQ above Charles Barkley recognizes that it is almost impossible to be an elite team without multiple stars. For a team to win as many games as the Mavs have with only one All-Star means that player is absolutely dominant. Dirk the best choice for MVP for those who understand basketball.

I totally disagree with you. The Sun's are basically another team from last year. This fact along with the injury to one of their most productive players has caused a set-back that any Maverick fan would be famiiar with. As far as Dirk being the only All-Star, true, but the players on the Mavs are doing alot better job this year in support of Dirk.

blahblehblah · 03-01-2006, 12:29 AM

I think it all comes down to whether or not the mavs finishes first in the west. If the Mavs are the 1 seed in the West, dirk should and hopefully would, get the mvp. In this case I'd argue that he deserves it much more than Nash or billups. Finishing first means that much IMO.

However if they dont finish ahead of the spurs, while dirk would still deserve it I can also see/understand it being nash or billups. Nash & the suns has simply been incredible, as nearly noone expected them to do this well w/o Amare, JJ and Q (for a quick example, go look at the amare has surgery thread 3 months ago). Billups & the Piston have also been amazing, flirting with 70 wins and having been the league leader from beggining to most probably the end.

per wescx's http://www.82games.com/wilq.htm
great find! That formula and analysis was outstanding, in fact before reading it I had always thought of billups as a somewhat suspect candidate despite the pistons season... needless to say it changed my mind some.

mary · 03-01-2006, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Just like all the players currently for Phoenix are scrubs except for Marion, who has been turned into an MVP candidate, himself (in part b/c of Nash). How can you argue with that?

Marion's a MVP candidate? And he's been turned into one because of Nash?

Someone crank up the Hendrix and pass the cheetos. I've not seen Marion make ANYONE'S long list of MVP candidates (and I'm not hating on Marion here, I think he's amazing...regardless of who his PG is..)

orangedays · 03-01-2006, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blab's Nemesis

You are all about the talk, chump. I could really care less about my entrance to this forum. I mostly just read anyway.

On the issue.. I stand by my opinion until proven wrong.

Good for you, I have always been a proponent of 'free speech' on this board and I strongly encourage people to form their own opinions, regardless of whether I agree with them or not. There wasn't anything wrong with what you said, just the way you said it. But, mark my words, you will be proven wrong; not that it matters in the big picture.

Quote:

Nash has made every player on his team into an All-Star this year (and last). Look at the players that have left Phoenix who played with Nash last year. Do you see any where close the production? No, because they are just scrubs without a point guard like Nash. Just like all the players currently for Phoenix are scrubs except for Marion, who has been turned into an MVP candidate, himself (in part b/c of Nash). How can you argue with that?

I'll let the 'All-Star' thing slide since I assume you were using it as a generalized reference to their overall improved play. But the players who left Phoenix? The only significant subtractions from the 2004-2005 squad are Joe Johnson and Quentin Richardson (the other subtractions are non-factors such as Paul Shirley, Walter McCarty [he sure can sing though], Steven Hunter, Jake Voskuhl and Bo Outlaw). Those other players were scrubs when they were with the Suns and continue to be scrubs where they play today (Shirley's even got his own blog talking about life as a scrub - he's a pretty bitter guy).

Joe Johnson

YEAR TEAM G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
04-05 PHO 82 82 39.5 .461 .478 .750 1.5 3.7 5.1 3.5 .96 .29 1.80 2.00 17.1
05-06 ATL 55 55 40.1 .456 .356 .790 1.1 2.8 3.9 6.4 1.36 .44 3.22 2.40 19.5

It certainly looks to me like he's playing better...much better as a matter of fact. How odd.

Quentin Richardon

YEAR TEAM G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
03-04 LAC 65 64 36.0 .398 .352 .740 2.2 4.1 6.4 2.1 1.03 .29 2.17 2.00 17.2
04-05 PHO 79 78 35.9 .389 .358 .739 1.2 4.9 6.1 2.0 1.22 .34 1.29 2.50 14.9
05-06 NYK 47 37 25.8 .361 .327 .742 1.1 2.9 4.0 1.6 .74 .11 .91 2.40 8.1

Q's situation is a little different. He thrived in the Suns' (not just Nash's) fast-paced offense because he was able to hoist up 631 3-pt. attempts over the course of the season (about twice what he was able to shoot in any of his previous seasons). It's not like his % was any higher, he just shot a helluva lot more shots. The switch to a slower offense has stymied Q's barrage from beyond the arc quite a bit. Additionally, we've seen a substantial decrease in Q's minutes with the Knicks - is it because he isn't a good player? Certainly not - you'll notice that his numbers actually fell across the board while he was with the Suns relative to the previous season when he played with the Clips. Does this mean Nash made him worse?? Nope. Why then? He was often a 3rd, 4th, or 5th option with the Suns. Same story this year, he's moved down LB's rotation deep into the bench and, with the serious decrease in minutes, his stats have suffered. Also, I would like to note that he was moved to the Knicks, arguably the darkest of the NBA's black holes.

If anything, I would attribute the Suns' success as much to Mike D'Antoni and his X's and O's as to Nash.

orangedays · 03-01-2006, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFFL

Marion was an All-Star before Nash. Amare was GOING to be an All-Star regardless. So despite lacking Amare, Nash still has another All-Star on his team and yet the Suns are 6 1/2 games behind the Mavs...

Anyone with a Basketball IQ above Charles Barkley recognizes that it is almost impossible to be an elite team without multiple stars. For a team to win as many games as the Mavs have with only one All-Star means that player is absolutely dominant. Dirk the best choice for MVP for those who understand basketball.

= everyone?

Milles · 03-01-2006, 12:50 AM

I thought this thread was to be about Dirk's MVP positioning. I find myself once again in a Nash discussion, with full on statistical analysis.

1. Steve Nash, NBA MVP 2004/2005 Season. Fact. No numbers, arguments or discussions will ever change that.

2. Steve Nash is in the running for MVP 2005/2006 Season. Fact

3. Other notables, Dirk, Billups, James, Bryant, Brand,

End of my analysis.

Quick question Orangedays, should Avery get the credit for Dirk and Mavs improvement, thus negating Dirks chances for MVP?

Nemesis · 03-01-2006, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orangedays

= everyone?

Now this is where we agree. As well as Jet Terry's 96 year old grandmother from the southern tip of B.F.E

ZueriMav · 03-01-2006, 12:56 AM

[QUOTE=Milles]NBA team stretch run progress reports from SI.com:

Quote:

A Phoenix Suns

Why can't people just agree on things once in a while? At least on the obvious stuff: Starbucks is a rip-off, a CEO shouldn't make 300 times more than the 9-to-5 grunts and Steve Nash was, and is, the MVP. The Suns won 62 games last year (as compared with 29 games pre-Nash), lost three fifths of their starting lineup and are still on track to win the Pacific Division this season. What's to argue? Shaq last year? He hasn't given his all in the regular season since his first year under Phil Jackson. Chauncey Billups this season? Because he's scoring more on a team coming off back-to-back Finals appearances? No, Nash was, and is, your man. He's done it without Amaré Stoudemire and he's done it without Joe Johnson. Who else could make a dogged defender like Raja Bell into a feared offensive weapon? Who else could make Kurt Thomas effective in a fast-break offense?

You know the answer, so stop arguing.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/w ... index.html[Quote/]

This is acually the best argument for Dirk: Following that logic, he did it (60 wins) with Fin and Nash in 2002-03, he did it WITHOUT Nash last year, and he's doing it without Fin AND Nash this year. As an engineer, I'd say:

Mavs without MVP (Nash last year) > Mavs with MVP (the year before) => somebody else has to be an MVP

(I know, it's pretty simple logic, but this is the same used in the article in SI). And you know who the guy is ;-)

Cheers

EDIT: With that being said, give the MVP to Nash if you'd like. BUT, leave the rings to Mavs and Dirk. This is what counts

orangedays · 03-01-2006, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milles

Quick question Orangedays, should Avery get the credit for Dirk and Mavs improvement, thus negating Dirks chances for MVP?

Well, I didn't attribute Nash's improvement to D'Antoni (which I think you're suggesting by postulating that Avery should get credit for Dirk's improvement). I credited D'Antoni with the Suns' improvement - it would appear that alot of people agree with me seeing as how the fella won the 2004-2005 NBA Coach of the Year Award.

Yes, Avery should get credit, in very large part, for the Mavericks' success this season. You will find numerous threads and articles agreeing with this fact. But these facts do not, in any way, negate Nowitzki's chances for MVP anymore than D'Antoni's success negated Nash's MVP chances last year (CoY and MVP, respectively). Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if we saw Avery win Coach of the Year this year to go along with Dirk's MVP *knocks on wood*. Hell, I'm going to call it now.

My argument wasn't that Nash doesn't deserve consideration, merely that he isn't deserving of winning it again. And since all comparisons for the MVP are relative, while Nash's performance this year is admirable, Dirk's is better...leading us to the title of this thread.

Dirk for MVP...or as DrBio put it:

Dirk-V-P!!!

Milles · 03-01-2006, 02:22 AM

OK, I was just wondering if you saw Avery's coaching and credit for the improved defense, as somehow overshadowing/negating Dirk's individual accomplishments.

Jet Terry · 03-01-2006, 02:33 AM

Should Dirk win MVP this year? yes. Will he? I doubt it because people seem to notice Nash without Amare even though the suns still have a lot of talent. Marion a great teammate for Nash to have in the fast pace game along with Marion's defense and rebounding. Also adding Bell, Diaw, and an improving Barbosa has kept Phoenix at a high level even without Amare.

kriD · 03-01-2006, 08:46 AM

The Go-To Guy

A Dirk Debate: The Best Mav Ever?

By Mike Fisher -- DallasBasketball.com

So the talk-show host on D/FW's ESPN radio station is attempting to discuss the Mavs. And she says, "Well, Dirk missed two shots late in the (Feb. 21 Clippers) game. ... Which got me to thinking: Once the playoffs start, who is going to have to be this team's go-to guy?''

After I regained control of my vehicle and rescued it and myself from the ditch, I decided to respond by making a declaration here (and by doing it with a dozen or so of my best hoops-wise friends: Not only is Dirk Nowitzki the greatest go-to guy for the 2006 Mavs, he is The Greatest Mav of All-Time.

The evidence is right in front of you: Check out Monday night, when Dirk led the 45-11 Mavs to a 104-92 victory over the Sixers. Dallas planned to get off to a quick start, so Dirk registered 17 points and eight rebounds in the first quarter. Dallas needed to close well, too, with Philly making a late run, so Dirk registered 11 more points and five more rebounds in the fourth quarter.

In total, The UberMan gave the Mavs 32 points and 11 rebounds in 33 minutes -- minutes that were limited because Dirk left the game in agony at the beginning of the third quarter with a twisted ankle, but returned from the locker because. ... he just had to.

And the evidence is all around you: Nowitzki just completed his fifth-straight All-Star appearance. he is now engaged in his second straight league MVP contest. (If you are the head-and-shoulders best player on a conference-leading 45-11 team, you are a "go-to guy,'' are you not?)

Sweetie, Dirk isn't in a race for "Best Mav of Right Now.'' He's in a race for "Best NBA Player Right Now.'' And he's in a race for "Greatest Mav of All Time.''

It seems a good time to collect a year's worth of votes from an esteemed panel of judges:

Our panelists: Legendary Mav (and now broadcaster) Derek Harper; legendary Mav (now assistant coach) Ro Blackman; long-time Mavs telecaster and former Drake coach Bob Ortegel; beloved ex-Mav (and broadcaster/assistant coach) Brad Davis; DallasBasketball.com columnist David Lord; seen-it-all former Mavs PA voice Kevin McCarthy; DallasBasketball.com columnist Larry "Legend' Barnes; scholarly freelance basketball writer Dennis Hans; Fort Worth Star-Telegram beat writer Art Garcia; HoopsWorld's, Bill Ingram; representing this space, yours truly; and a very special guest who gets the final word.

Derek Harper votes for Mark Aguirre. “I’ll go on record as saying once Dirk is done, he’ll be right there with Mark,’’ Derek asserts. “Like Mark or not, he’s one of the most talented players ever. A premier scorer, a nightmare matchup. … Mark did all the things Dirk is doing, but while being 6-4 with a big butt, not 7-0.’’

Ro Blackman votes for Dirk Nowitzki. "It can depend on the criteria,'' Ro says. "But in terms of talent and production, it's Dirk. On top of that, he's the guy you'd want with you in the foxhole. Those three things, and he's No. 1 in Mavs history.

Bob Ortegel votes for Nowitzki. "I'll take Dirk,'' says Coach O. “In Dirk, you have a 7-footer on the verge of being able to do it all. He is now a perennial All-Star, a perennial All-NBA Teamer, and is now an MVP candidate. As many great players as the Mavs have boasted in their history, they’ve never had an MVP. In Dirk, they may have that – and for many years to come.’’

Brad Davis votes for Blackman. "Give me Rolando,'' Davis says. "A good guy with great stats.''

David Lord votes for Dirk and wants to shut down the Aguirre thing. Says Lord: “He left here intentionally! Every long-time Mavs fan – and that would be who such an enshrining would be for, right? – every long-time fan will always recall that he quit on this franchise and this city. There is something symbolically wrong by celebrating Mark Aguirre. There is, however, every reason to vote for Dirk.''

Kevin McCarthy authoritatively votes for Ro. Says McCarthy: “When with the Mavericks, Blackman was named to the NBA All-Star Team four times, and played on six Maverick playoff teams. Blackman scored 16,643 points and 6,487 field goals with the Mavericks, both team records. He also averaged 19.2 points during his 11 years with the Mavs. He's the guy.''

Larry "Legend'' Barnes votes for Nowitzki. "I'm not sure you can look back in Mavs history and claim there is a legacy of great players,'' Larry says. "It's never been better than it is in this era, and Dirk is the reason this era is even an era.''

Professor Dennis Hans votes for Steve Nash. "It's a three-way contest between Aguirre, Dirk and Steve Nash,'' Hans says. “Aguirre gets the edge if the criteria is sustained, efficient productivity and general excellence. Six straight seasons he put up big offensive numbers (22.6 to 29.5 ppg) without succumbing to the low-percentage “volume shooter” approach. If we were voting in 2010, Dirk would likely get the nod, but if it’s simply a question of who is the most skilled player, it’s Nash in a landslide. Nash is among the best ballhandlers ever. I admit my biases toward the importance of the point-guard position, but I'll take Nash.''

Art Garcia votes for Dirk. "Nowitzki,'' Garcia says, "is the only player in Mavs history who's helped change the way the game is played and how it's viewed by those inside basketball. Scouts, coaches and GMs are shaking the bushes looking for the "next Dirk Nowitzki." The Mavericks are a title contender because of Dirk's growth. He's a true franchise player.''

Bill Ingram votes for Dirk. "Roy Tarpley would probably have gotten my vote if he had kept his nose clean,'' Ingram says. "That guy could flat out play. He was the only one in the league who could even attempt to challenge Olajuwon in his prime. As it stands, I think we have to talk about the guy who got this team the farthest they have ever gotten. Dirk Nowitzki has turned this team around, even as Nash and Finley have been shipped out. He continues to keep the Mavericks at the top of the standings, and this season is their best shot at a title in the history of the ball club. I have a lot of respect for Rolando and all that he has done for the organization and I also think Aguirre should be mentioned, but when you talk about the guy who has been most valuable to this team it has to be Dirk.''

Mike Fisher votes for The UberMan. "First of all, there's a reason we call him "The UberMan,'' Fisher says. "Watch him every night, and you see that even beyond the numbers, he's making himself into a better player, piece by piece. He's come the farthest in terms of development, and he'sd got the best chance of any Mav ever of taking the team the farthest in terms of title contention. He does it as an individual. He does it as a team guy. You can't ask for much more.''

And finally, that vote from our very special guest judge. "The pick,'' says Mark Cuban, "is Dirk.''

You might want to argue with the Mavs owner, but you cannot argue with the totals: Our panel of 12 judges have made the call: Two votes for Ro Blackman, a vote for Mark Aguirre, a vote for Steve Nash. ... And eight votes for Dirk Nowitzki.

Dirk Nowitzki: The Greatest Mav of All-Time -- and still getting greater.

I guess we have our go-to guy, eh?

Five-ofan · 03-01-2006, 09:24 AM

its dirk without question for best mav ever. For the mvp debate read my last post on why nash shouldnt win it this year. Basically it comes down to the logic that allowed him to win last year prevents him from winning this year unless they just completely change the way they do it. Dirk had better numbers and nearly as many wins with ALOT less talent last year yet he didnt win the mvp. That was because nashs team won 60 and his didnt. Well this year the mavs will win 60 and the suns wont so using the logic that gave nash the mvp last year, dirk is the mvp. Also if you are gonna credit nash with the 33 win improvement then the mavs should have lost 33 more games. So actually improving by 6 wins means that the mavs improved by 39 if in fact you give nash credit for being worth 33 games. Obviously he isnt but im just using that to show my point.

Arne · 03-01-2006, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kriD

[B]So the talk-show host on D/FW's ESPN radio station is attempting to discuss the Mavs. And she says, "Well, Dirk missed two shots late in the (Feb. 21 Clippers) game. ... Which got me to thinking: Once the playoffs start, who is going to have to be this team's go-to guy?''

After I regained control of my vehicle and rescued it and myself from the ditch, I decided to respond by making a declaration here

Hilarious.

u2sarajevo · 03-01-2006, 11:20 AM

Best Mav of all time? Right now I would still say Blackman. But the closest to him is still playing, and this guys first name doesn't rhyme with sleve.

Whoever that was that voted Nash is a tool swayed by media opinion.

sixeightmkw · 03-01-2006, 11:26 AM

Did everyone forget about Aguirre? He is by far the best player ever at Dallas. It is a shame that management can't get it together to retire his jersey. Dirk and Blackmon are right there together. Dirk can become the best Mav of all time wth a few more years.

u2sarajevo · 03-01-2006, 11:34 AM

I wouldn't vote for a guy that turned his back on his team and this city. So, no I didn't forget about Aguirre.