2018 NBA Draft

[Magnum_3_Ball]

Originally Posted by Magnum_3_Ball

This was about Kendall Stephens, 6-7 Senior SG from Nevada. Kid can flat out shoot the rock. Was the ESPN100 65th ranked player coming out of high school. Signed with Purdue & transferred to Nevada after his Junior year.

Really doesn't do anything else. He's not a guy that would get drafted. He's literally just a 3 point shooter. I even saw him on one screen running the baseline where he was completely wide open underneath the basket, but he was in autopilot mode & just kept on running to the corner. A few minutes later the exact same thing happened, a teammate saw him & made the pass, Stephens was still on autopilot mode & the pass sailed out of bounds. So, he doesn't even seem all that aware of situational offense.

That said, he has incredible range. He was 4/4 on 3s in the first half & 3 of them were 4-5 feet behind the NBA 3-point line. He has no fear. He just catches & shoots. The announcers said his coach, Eric Musselman (former Warriors & Kings coach), said he doesn't just have the green light, he has the neon green light to shoot.

I definitely would be in favor of extending him an invite to summer camp & seeing how he can develop. I'm pretty sure the kid isn't an NBA player because he's very lanky & not exceptionally athletic. But, I'm also positive he's going to be playing professional basketball somewhere overseas. That kind of range, quick release, no fear/hesitation, and size. Legit shooter.

Originally Posted by Magnum_3_Ball

nbadraft.net just made Kendall Stephens their last player taken in their latest mock draft update.

Feeling like I have an eye for talent or something over here. Lol.

Kendall Stephens tonight: 30 pts 9/16 FGs 7/16 treys 5/5 FTs 3 rebs 1 asst 2 stls 2 blks 1 TO

Granted it was vs San Jose State (3-23 on the season), but 7 treys. Stephens has hit 3 or more treys in 23 games this season. He's only played in 29 games, and of the 6 games he didn't hit 3 or more treys, he played less than 20 min in all 6 of them & didn't even attempt three 3pt FGs in 2 of them. He averages 3.5 treys per game & is shooting 45.3% from 3. He also is fearless, shoots from deep behind the NBA 3 point line even, and in the games I've seen, a lot of his makes are like Steph they're so true they barely move the net.

[Magnum_3_Ball]

Was fun to watch Chandler Hutchinson in this game.

#24 Nevada @ Boise State for 1st place in the Mountain West on the line.

Hutchinson Positives:

1) He is a legit scorer. The handle is for real. He can move & get to the basket. Adept at finishing with the right or left hand. Excellent body control. Good hops. Very effective coming to a jump shot & going back up over defenders for easy looks

2) Seemingly any time he wants, on the break, in a half court set... literally at any time, he can throw it into 5th gear, and he's simply by his defender. He's so fast, he makes every other player on the court look like they don't belong. I don't know exactly how that will translate to the NBA, but I have to imagine he'll be in the upper say 25% of NBA guards/wings in terms of pure speed.

3) Doesn't force his shot. Very good about getting the ball to open teammates.

4) It was difficult to assess his defensive abilities because Boise State spent most of the game in a zone defense. That said, Hutchinson stayed mentally alert. He knew his assignments at all times & several times he even pointed his teammates to their correct assignment. He was very aware of Kendall Stephens when he was assigned to his side of the floor. Other times when he could, he was great about anticipating a shot going up and going in for a contest or for the rebound.

Hutchinson Negatives:

1) Has a very bad habit of not following his own shot. The entire game I saw him crash the offensive glass one time. No matter if he shoots it, passes it, or a teammate puts up the shot, as soon as the action is completed he does a Steph Curry imitation & he's already running back up the court on defense. Sloppy rebounding skills on offense.

2) He's not an exceptional passer. He sees what needs to be done, but all of his passes are lasers. He whips the ball around without a sense of touch or finesse. I never saw him employ a bounce or lob pass. I only saw one pass into the post that led the big to a bucket. Poor anticipation skills. He moreso, gets double teamed, and looks for the nearest open teammate & gets rid of it.

3) Definitely still needs work to develop an NBA 3. He has a shot, but he lacks confidence & the mechanics aren't as fluid as they need to be. He's not Kendall Stephens, for example, who will just let it fly with confidence at any time. It's almost like he has to have space to feel comfortable letting it go.

This is just a side note on his defense. Well... also in general. In the 1st half, Hutchinson didn't even look like the best player on the court. He didn't look like one of the 3 best players on the court. Nevada has a guy averaging 19 ppg this year. Junior SF Caleb Martin a NC State transfer. nbadraft.net has him going in the 2nd round in the 2019 draft.

Martin posterized Hutchinson on a baseline drive in the 1st half, and Martin who's listed at 6-7, I would believe Hutchinson is more like 6-6 even though he's listed at 6-7 too.

With Kendall Stephens going 4-4 on deep 3s & shooting right over the zone, Boise State dumped out of their zone & went to some box & 1s, and man defense to close out both halves. Also, Villanova had Mikal Bridges defending Providence's PG as he brought the ball up the final 5 minutes tonight & Mikal was giving Providence's guards trouble.

Hutchinson is no Mikal Bridges, but Boise State did have Hutchinson out top guarding Caleb Martin. On one possession late in the game, Martin drove right on Hutchinson, utilizing a screen, and Hutchinson wasn't able to recover. Martin laid it in for a relatively easy layup. Hutchinson basically was burnt on that possession.

However, with just under a minute to go, and the score 72-72 (with 1st place in the Mountain West on the line), Hutchinson again guarded Martin at the top of the key. Martin tried to blow past him to the left this time & he got a little breathing room (Martin has a quick first step), but Hutchinson recovered and not only caught up to Martin but he leaped high enough & stayed high enough to wait Martin out until he tried to force up a shot & then he swatted it into the 3rd row. It was a very impressive defensive & athletic play with the season on the line.

Hutchinson also had 2 steals that were impressive during the game (he had 4 total steals, but only 2 were impressive). One time he stripped a post player who tried to dribble around him. Just picked his pocket. And the second time he looked off Nevada's PG, read a passing lane, and jumped out for a steal going the other way. Definitely see the alertness, the physical tools, and the instincts for Hutchinson to be a well above average defender at the next level.

Based on all of this, and everything else I've read & seen on Hutchinson, I feel like he's a solid fit in the 15-20 range of this draft.

[Underdog]

Jaren Jackson should be a top-three NBA Draft pick
https://fanbuzz.com/college-basketba...ba-draft-pick/

What’s impressive about the block isn’t just that it is on Bagley. It is that he had the wherewithal, after helping deter another shot attempt, as well as the spring in his feet, to get in position to get to Bagley’s ill-fated attempt. Normal big men don’t make it back there in time.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Right now, Ayton, Jackson jr, Bagley go 1, 2, 3 for me. Doncic 4th, and either Young or Bamba at 5. Porter goes 6th or 7th because of the injury worries.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Right now, Ayton, Jackson jr, Bagley go 1, 2, 3 for me. Doncic 4th, and either Young or Bamba at 5. Porter goes 6th or 7th because of the injury worries.

I love Bamba but am starting to sway over Jackson Jr's way. Would any one choose Bamba or Jackson Jr. over Ayton?

[BPo001]

Originally Posted by mac222b

I love Bamba but am starting to sway over Jackson Jr's way. Would any one choose Bamba or Jackson Jr. over Ayton?

Nope. I'd consider Jackson over Bamba, but not Ayton.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by mac222b

I love Bamba but am starting to sway over Jackson Jr's way. Would any one choose Bamba or Jackson Jr. over Ayton?

Nah, Ayton still tops the list -- but I've had JJJ over Bamba for a few weeks now... The question for me is where he ranks compared to Bagley, Porter and Doncic.

[Magnum_3_Ball]

You hear the upside for Ayton, and you think Wow! David Robinson 2.0, I read some stat the other day that Ayton is averaging something like 19 ppg, 10 rpg and a true shooting % of 65%, and only 2 other players in NCAA history have done that Blake Griffin & David Robinson... So, I keep Ayton atop my rankings for that type of upside.

But, when I hear things like NBA body & some of the other things said about Ayton, it's like who cares? He's not the next Shaq. What stands out to me is his shooting touch (and form/mechanics) for his size. Plus, what they say about his agility & ability to play the PnR defense.

Yet, when you look at JJJ, he does all of those same things Ayton does only better. He has better range on his jump shot, shoots better from the line, and he's definitely a better shot blocker, just as if not more agile defending the perimeter. When you look at it from that perspective, I wonder why not JJJ over Ayton?

I'll put it this way, if we get a top 2 pick & draft Ayton, I'll be ECSTATIC!!!

But, if we wind up a few spots lower and land JJJ, I'll be just as ECSTATIC!!!

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by Magnum_3_Ball

You hear the upside for Ayton, and you think Wow! David Robinson 2.0, I read some stat the other day that Ayton is averaging something like 19 ppg, 10 rpg and a true shooting % of 65%, and only 2 other players in NCAA history have done that Blake Griffin & David Robinson... So, I keep Ayton atop my rankings for that type of upside.

But, when I hear things like NBA body & some of the other things said about Ayton, it's like who cares? He's not the next Shaq. What stands out to me is his shooting touch (and form/mechanics) for his size. Plus, what they say about his agility & ability to play the PnR defense.

Yet, when you look at JJJ, he does all of those same things Ayton does only better. He has better range on his jump shot, shoots better from the line, and he's definitely a better shot blocker, just as if not more agile defending the perimeter. When you look at it from that perspective, I wonder why not JJJ over Ayton?

I'll put it this way, if we get a top 2 pick & draft Ayton, I'll be ECSTATIC!!!

But, if we wind up a few spots lower and land JJJ, I'll be just as ECSTATIC!!!

David Robinson is one of the most fluid athletes at his size we've ever seen. I don't see that with Ayton. He's explosive vertically and has nice footwork offensively for a big. Robinson stayed lean, I see Ayton if anything becoming bulkier. He reminds me more of Hakeem only without the all-world defense.

Ayton projects to be able to score in a variety of ways and can pass some whereas JJJ seems mainly around the rim and 3 point. No reason to think JJJ cant develop in some ways to be at least a threat to drive, post up or kick out. Maybe a slightly less athletic but more well rounded Ibaka is his upside. Ibaka's second year in the league, around age 20 (so he says--he looks and plays more like a 32 year old not his listed 28), he didn't even attempt a 3 point shot! So if JJJ is a guy that can average 18-10-3 once he gets stronger and develops some offensive game, on around 35-40% from 3. Whats that worth? We're talking about maxing out Capela who cant shoot from 3 and will likely never develop a post game or drive and kick.

[Underdog]

Afraid of Rejections: Deandre Ayton Is a Physical Marvel, but It Isn’t Showing on Defense
https://www.theringer.com/2017/12/7/...ocks-nba-draft

Ayton doesn’t play with much energy on defense. He rarely makes two efforts at contesting a shot, and he’s not particularly diligent about getting himself involved in a play when it doesn’t involve his man. I talked to one NBA scout who thinks the problem is that Ayton has a high school mentality when it comes to defense, and that he is more concerned with winning his individual matchup statistically than filling his role in the Arizona system. You can draw a direct line from Ayton’s lack of effort to the Wildcats’ defensive struggles this season. They have the no. 213-rated defense in the country, a shockingly low number for a team coached by a defensive-minded coach like Sean Miller.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Afraid of Rejections: Deandre Ayton Is a Physical Marvel, but It Isn’t Showing on Defense
https://www.theringer.com/2017/12/7/...ocks-nba-draft

Ayton really reminds me of Dwight Howard with a three

[Bryan_Wilson]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Afraid of Rejections: Deandre Ayton Is a Physical Marvel, but It Isn’t Showing on Defense
https://www.theringer.com/2017/12/7/...ocks-nba-draft

God it really is a shame Noel didn't have the drive or couldn't take that next step for whatever reason. Such a waste of ability.

[Underdog]

Jaren Jackson’s Accelerated Rate of Development & Perimeter Playmaking vs Minnesota
https://www.thestepien.com/2018/02/1...-vs-minnesota/

Bigs who can pass, even from a stationary position like the mid-post, and thus be involved in a heightened amount of offensive sets, are very valuable both in the past and current iterations of the NBA game. Bigs who can pass on the move given how pick-and-roll and five-out sets are pillars of most offenses are incredibly valuable in the modern game specifically.

For the first time this season (by my watching) Jackson’s potential as a passer on the move, both on closeouts projecting to the next level and in short roll situations, flashed repeatedly in the same game in noticeable fashion.

[tap2390]

My favorite sleepers:


1) Gary Trent Jr. -- Don't know if it's fair to call him a sleeper because he will likely go in the lottery. I really want him on the Mavs. He's a freshman with an NBA pedigree shooting 46% from three on 6.2 attempts. He needs to work on ball-handling and defense, but he moves so well off the ball and coming off screens.

2) Tony Carr -- A point (really combo guard) with size who can switch defensively 1-3. Has a variety of scoring moves in the midrange and knows how to get to his spot. Needs to tighten up his handle. Has made a tremendous leap from his freshman year for an over-performing Penn State squad. You wonder if his jumper translates to next level because he's not great about setting his feet.

3) Keita Bates-Diop -- Reminds me a LOT of Josh Howard. You worry about his 'tweener build, but he has displayed vastly improved handles. He needs to show he can continue to improve his jumper so defenders can't just lag off him at the next level.

[tap2390]

Originally Posted by tap2390

My favorite sleepers:


1) Gary Trent Jr. -- Don't know if it's fair to call him a sleeper because he will likely go in the lottery. I really want him on the Mavs. He's a freshman with an NBA pedigree shooting 46% from three on 6.2 attempts. He needs to work on ball-handling and defense, but he moves so well off the ball and coming off screens.

2) Tony Carr -- A point (really combo guard) with size who can switch defensively 1-3. Has a variety of scoring moves in the midrange and knows how to get to his spot. Needs to tighten up his handle. Has made a tremendous leap from his freshman year for an over-performing Penn State squad. You wonder if his jumper translates to next level because he's not great about setting his feet.

3) Keita Bates-Diop -- Reminds me a LOT of Josh Howard. You worry about his 'tweener build, but he has displayed vastly improved handles. He needs to show he can continue to improve his jumper so defenders can't just lag off him at the next level.

Need to add Alize Johnson to this list. Late bloomer. Athletic, wiry, feisty 6’9” small forward with underrated handles and vision. Fantastic rebounder and good defender. Offensively his game reminds me of Draymond. He plays with good pace and makes the right choices. We may need to package our second rounders to move up to get him.

[EricaLubarsky]

Watched Ayton 25-16-4

Im impressed

[Magnum_3_Ball]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Watched Ayton 25-16-4

Im impressed

I watched the first half. I thought Fran Fraschilla paid him a huge compliment when he said, "I challenge anyone to find a play, offense or defense, where DeAndre Ayton isn't giving it his absolute all". I hadn't heard anyone praise Ayton's motor like that before.

I thought Arizona State lost him a few times that led to easy scores, and I didn't see Ayton do anything too terribly impressive in the first half, outside of one mid range 1-on-1 move he had that led to a sweet looking jump shot. I do think Ayton let some easy layup attempts go unchallenged; although, it was clear he was following his defensive rotations, which is something I saw Chandler Hutchinson do vs Nevada a few times. I don't know if you can criticize a prospect for that or not. Probably if we were aware of the actual defensive assignments their team had, we'd probably learn that they were suppose to go guard the corner 3 & a teammate had failed to rotate over in the lane. Something like that. I still think you have to penalize them a little bit for not protecting the basket, but maybe their coach has instructed them otherwise.

One thing that is clear about Arizona is they don't run the offense through Ayton. If they did, I think he could average 40 & 25. Somebody here said awhile back that Arizona doesn't have anybody besides Ayton. They seem to run the ball through Alonzo Trier & Rawlie Alkins more than Ayton. Also they're Arizona, virtually every recruit was an ESPN100 player coming out of high school... So, Ayton isn't getting all of the looks that he could (maybe even should be getting). I think it's significant to recognize that he could be putting up much better #s, if Arizona were running it's offense to showcase him. Actually makes me wonder what Real Madrid is doing in respect to Luka Doncic because all we see are the #s...

[Underdog]

Been listening to some podcasts, have a few Mavs draft takeaways...

LockedOnMavericks: Apparently after the Kings game, Carlisle said the Mavs were going to try to win "winnable" games, then when asked what that meant, he replied, "ask Mark." In other words, Cuban is basically ordering him to tank... Isaac Harris is projecting the Mavs to finish somewhere in the ballpark of 4-21 over their last 25 games.

The Ringer: They think Marvin Bagley's lack of defense is going to hurt him longterm. Like, in 5 years he's just going to be another Michael Beasley, whereas a player like Mikal Bridges is going to have much more value around the league. For that reason, they think Jaren Jackson Jr would be a better fit for the Mavs (and more specifically, Dennis) than Bagley.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Been listening to some podcasts, have a few Mavs draft takeaways...

LockedOnMavericks: Apparently after the Kings game, Carlisle said the Mavs were going to try to win "winnable" games, then when asked what that meant, he replied, "ask Mark." In other words, Cuban is basically ordering him to tank... Isaac Harris is projecting the Mavs to finish somewhere in the ballpark of 4-21 over their last 25 games.

The Ringer: They think Marvin Bagley's lack of defense is going to hurt him longterm. Like, in 5 years he's just going to be another Michael Beasley, whereas a player like Mikal Bridges is going to have much more value around the league. For that reason, they think Jaren Jackson Jr would be a better fit for the Mavs (and more specifically, Dennis) than Bagley.

Thats funny, I almost compared him to Super Cool Beas in here the other day but thought it might be unfair to Bagley. Would be fine with Mikal over Bagley or maybe even Trae

[Magnum_3_Ball]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Been listening to some podcasts, have a few Mavs draft takeaways...

LockedOnMavericks: Apparently after the Kings game, Carlisle said the Mavs were going to try to win "winnable" games, then when asked what that meant, he replied, "ask Mark." In other words, Cuban is basically ordering him to tank... Isaac Harris is projecting the Mavs to finish somewhere in the ballpark of 4-21 over their last 25 games.

The Ringer: They think Marvin Bagley's lack of defense is going to hurt him longterm. Like, in 5 years he's just going to be another Michael Beasley, whereas a player like Mikal Bridges is going to have much more value around the league. For that reason, they think Jaren Jackson Jr would be a better fit for the Mavs (and more specifically, Dennis) than Bagley.

I listened to last week's podcast on Jaren Jackson Jr & Luka Doncic. Just listened to this week's too. Really enjoying the Ringer's NBA draft podcast.

They compare Bagley III as a potential Brandan Wright clone.

Wright was just acquired by the Rockets. Here's what D'Antoni said about him:

Coach Mike D'Antoni said recently-acquired center Brandan Wright will be "insurance, mostly" for the frontcourt depth.

Wright's been out of the league since 2016. I know we all have fond memories of Wright with the Mavs, but he only played 65 or more games in a season one time in his career. He basically had a good 5 year run as a role player & that was it.

[Magnum_3_Ball]

Both of those notes are excellent news!

[Underdog]

Jeez, DeAndre Ayton with a monster game tonight: 25 points, 16 rebounds, 4 assists, 3 blocks, and a steal.

[sefant77]

Wrights body always cheats on him. Guy was just never healthy.

[Magnum_3_Ball]

We were talking about Trae Young the other day. I heard someone on one of the Ringer podcasts say that Trae Young is a gamble in this draft because either the things he does in college he'll be able to do in the NBA, or those things won't work in the NBA & he won't make it. His co-host said he could see some middle ground in his range of outcomes were Trae Young is deep on the bench & comes in once every 15 games or so & lights it up. Fwiw, I remember these same things being said about Steph Curry, in particular the deep bench & lighting it up once every blue moon comment.

I think there's a lot of truth to this, though. Someone on here asked me why would I gamble on Trae Young if I'm the Mavs and all my other Tier 1 players are gone when I pick but Trae is still there. Because Trae's ceiling is what he's doing in college does work in the NBA & he's a megastar. If he's a megastar, I don't care about fit.

On the other hand, I won't be surprised if Trae Young never sees his 2nd NBA contract.

[tap2390]

Originally Posted by Magnum_3_Ball

We were talking about Trae Young the other day. I heard someone on one of the Ringer podcasts say that Trae Young is a gamble in this draft because either the things he does in college he'll be able to do in the NBA, or those things won't work in the NBA & he won't make it. His co-host said he could see some middle ground in his range of outcomes were Trae Young is deep on the bench & comes in once every 15 games or so & lights it up. Fwiw, I remember these same things being said about Steph Curry, in particular the deep bench & lighting it up once every blue moon comment.

I think there's a lot of truth to this, though. Someone on here asked me why would I gamble on Trae Young if I'm the Mavs and all my other Tier 1 players are gone when I pick but Trae is still there. Because Trae's ceiling is what he's doing in college does work in the NBA & he's a megastar. If he's a megastar, I don't care about fit.

On the other hand, I won't be surprised if Trae Young never sees his 2nd NBA contract.

IMO I would take Mikal Bridges or Gary Trent Jr. over Young. Young’s game just doesn’t translate to the next level. He’s absolutely abysmal on defense. His recent inefficient offense gets a pass because OU doesn’t have anyone else who can create offense, but if he’s struggling against college defenders keying on him, how will he hold up against NBA guys? He will be physically outmatched every game. He’s shot above 40% just 5 of 13 games during the New Year. I think it’s pretty clear he’s going to go the way of Trey Burke and Jonny Flynn.

[Magnum_3_Ball]

Originally Posted by tap2390

IMO I would take Mikal Bridges or Gary Trent Jr. over Young. Young’s game just doesn’t translate to the next level. He’s absolutely abysmal on defense. His recent inefficient offense gets a pass because OU doesn’t have anyone else who can create offense, but if he’s struggling against college defenders keying on him, how will he hold up against NBA guys? He will be physically outmatched every game. He’s shot above 40% just 5 of 13 games during the New Year. I think it’s pretty clear he’s going to go the way of Trey Burke and Jonny Flynn.

He's a guy you could look back 5 years from now & say he shouldn't of been drafted in the 1st round, when compared to the other players taken. Or, he could be a guy, like Steph, who you look back and say "How was he not the 1st player taken?" I don't think any of the other top tier players have that wide a range of outcomes.

I can see even lower ranked players than Mikal Bridges and Gary Trent Jr who I could conceivably make a case for taking over Young. That said, his defense isn't a factor for me. He's not been a great college defender this year, and I agree with the guy from the Ringer his NBA future will hinge on whether you believe he can do the same things he's doing right now in college at the NBA level. Since he's not a good defender now in college, it's a moot point.

I don't know. I was pretty high on Trae Young, but that comment by the guy on the Ringer podcast is making me think.

[Magnum_3_Ball]

Been wondering this for awhile now. There's been some blowback here to my Sam Hinkie-like tank at all costs stance.

Whoever your top guy is in this draft, imagine him reaching his ceiling in his NBA career. Keeping that in mind, how far would you be willing to go if you were in charge to ensure the Mavs lost enough games down the stretch to secure your top draft prospect?

For me I would do anything. Literally anything. I don't think very many people here would go that far. Even with me not knowing that my top draft targets will reach their ceiling, I'd do almost anything. I think the only thing I wouldn't do is bench Dirk to keep him from reaching milestones. Short of that I'd do anything else.

[Bryan_Wilson]

Originally Posted by Magnum_3_Ball

Been wondering this for awhile now. There's been some blowback here to my Sam Hinkie-like tank at all costs stance.

Whoever your top guy is in this draft, imagine him reaching his ceiling in his NBA career. Keeping that in mind, how far would you be willing to go if you were in charge to ensure the Mavs lost enough games down the stretch to secure your top draft prospect?

For me I would do anything. Literally anything. I don't think very many people here would go that far. Even with me not knowing that my top draft targets will reach their ceiling, I'd do almost anything. I think the only thing I wouldn't do is bench Dirk to keep him from reaching milestones. Short of that I'd do anything else.

Honestly if they just limit JJ's mins to 15-18 mins I'm positive everything resolves itself. He played 30mins against Sac for no reason at all. He was a +8 in a 5 point loss. He constantly plays 22-26mins and he's almost always at or near our top in +-. If they limited JJ nothing more would need to be done. I wish they would also limit Barnes and Wes to 28 or less but that's not going to happen. But Wes and Barnes are also almost always among our lowest in +-. I'm not the biggest +- fan but for the most part their impacts are just as much a negative towards a win. Barnes can impact more than Wes imo, so I would love to see him get 28 or less mins but it's mainly JJ who needs to stop playing so much.

[Magnum_3_Ball]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

Honestly if they just limit JJ's mins to 15-18 mins I'm positive everything resolves itself. He played 30mins against Sac for no reason at all. He was a +8 in a 5 point loss. He constantly plays 22-26mins and he's almost always at or near our top in +-. If they limited JJ nothing more would need to be done. I wish they would also limit Barnes and Wes to 28 or less but that's not going to happen. But Wes and Barnes are also almost always among our lowest in +-. I'm not the biggest +- fan but for the most part their impacts are just as much a negative towards a win. Barnes can impact more than Wes imo, so I would love to see him get 28 or less mins but it's mainly JJ who needs to stop playing so much.

I agree. I'm trying to see how far fans will go tho.

Whoever is at the top of your wishlist for the Mavs draft pick this year, imagine they become a league MVP. They reach their ceiling.

Would you be willing to bench JJ Barea for the rest of the season if it meant the Mavs are able to draft your future league MVP? If you say no, then the Mavs win too many games & drop down in the draft order, unable to draft the future league MVP.

What if it meant the Mavs had to sit Harrison Barnes for the rest of the season. Would you go that far also?

[Magnum_3_Ball]

I heard ppl talking about Isaac Bonga on other forums before, but I never realized he's a PG. Didn't realize he's grown to 6-10, either.

Kid plays professional basketball in the German league & he's Jaren Jackson's age, barely 18 yrs old by 3 months. He's a high risk, fairly high reward player who's being mocked in the early 2nd round. If a player like Chandler Hutchinson, Keita Bates-Diop, Troy Brown or another player in that ilk doesn't fall to us with our early 2nd round pick, then I really like taking this kid. And by most updated mocks that I'm seeing those guys, along with others who have been mentioned, are off the board by the early 2nd already. Bonga comes with so much risk that he's been holding steady in the early 2nd.

[hayth.james.g]

For whatever reason, I am having a hard time getting excited about Jaren Jackson Jr. Quite a few people I follow and respect are high on him, but when I watch his tape I struggle to buy in.

Do we believe he is a lock in for All NBA/Superstar?

I see it with Ayton and Dnocic. Even with Bagley I see it because his offensive game has that kind of potential. What am I missing here...

Edit: I should add in I would be excited to get him in the 5-7 range. But right now he is trending in the top 3.

[Magnum_3_Ball]

Originally Posted by hayth.james.g

For whatever reason, I am having a hard time getting excited about Jaren Jackson Jr. Quite a few people I follow and respect are high on him, but when I watch his tape I struggle to buy in.

Do we believe he is a lock in for All NBA/Superstar?

I see it with Ayton and Dnocic. Even with Bagley I see it because his offensive game has that kind of potential. What am I missing here...

Edit: I should add in I would be excited to get him in the 5-7 range. But right now he is trending in the top 3.

I'm super high on Jaren Jackson Jr. To be honest, I'm getting to the point where I secretly hope he's the Mavs' pick; even though, I know Doncic & Ayton's ceilings are so incredibly high. I think Jaren Jackson Jr's floor is the highest of any player in the draft. I would say that he is a lock for All-NBA defensive team at some point in his career, barring injury.

However, I can see why someone would have trouble seeing him as a top 3 pick.

#1 - I think he's in the Kawhi Leonard mold of "NBA superstar" in that A) he's a two-way player & good defense is harder to recognize than good offense. A lot of times you only realize or better said appreciate how good a player is defensively until you have to go without that player & watch someone play defense in his place. But, if you look closely, you'll see defensive plays that stand out. I remember watching him vs Maryland. Terrapins were making a late push in that game, and JJJ made an incredible weakside block at the rim to protect a 2 possession lead with under a minute to go in the game. And B) He's not flashy. I've watched JJJ play the 2nd half vs Maryland, the whole game vs Indiana, and the 1st half vs Purdue, plus his highlight packages on Youtube. The only play I've ever seen from him on the offensive end that took my breath away was a put back dunk vs Minnesota. But that doesn't mean he hasn't impressed me offensively. I can tell his dad, a former NBA player, or somebody has been working with that kid because he's almost always in the right place on offense & he makes good decisions with the ball. He doesn't force shots, he stays within himself. That type of thing doesn't leap off the screen at you like a Doncic behind-the-back pass does, but it's just as impressive for a kid his age.

#2 - His age. He's one of the youngest players in this class, so people are projecting his value based on that sliding scale, which doesn't show up on the screen, necessarily, when you watch him play. There's even some thought that he might continue to grow from his listed height of 6-10/6-11 (depending on where you look) to 7-0/7-1, which again is project-able value that you can't see on the screen right now.

#3 - His game translates perfectly to the modern NBA. Players like Trae Young, Marvin Bagley III, Mo Bamba, and especially players further down the rankings their success is going to be influenced by what situation/what team they go to. A big part of Jaren Jackson Jr's appeal is that he, like Mikal Bridges, will be successful on any team you put him on. Every team can use elite defenders who also are consistent shooters with NBA 3 point range. JJJ in particular has the perfect combination of size, length, and agility to really guard all 5 positions. There's no player like him in this year's draft or really any draft that I can remember. Maybe KG was like that. He's over-aggressive & gets into too much foul trouble, but again because of his age I think scouts are cutting him some slack on that figuring he'll learn & cut down on those mistakes.


Edit: I think another big reason why some are having trouble seeing JJJ as a top 3 pick is he isn't putting up eye-popping stats. He's not the #1 option on MSU's offense. He's not #2 or #3 either really, and because of his aggressive play, he's gotten 4 or more fouls in 15 of the 29 games he's played. He's been limited to 22 min per game. So, while he's had some eye-popping #s at times, like his 6 first half blocks vs Indiana or the 27 pt 6 reb 5 treys 3 blks game vs Minnesota, he doesn't consistently produce a line in the box score that grabs your attention the way Trae Young or Marvin Bagley do. But, if you take his averages to per 36 min, then they're very eye-popping: 18.8 ppg 9.6 rpg 2.1 apg 2.0 treys (on 43.8% shooting) 5.4 bpg 1.1 spg 3.1 TOs

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Magnum_3_Ball

I'm super high on Jaren Jackson Jr. To be honest, I'm getting to the point where I secretly hope he's the Mavs' pick; even though, I know Doncic & Ayton's ceilings are so incredibly high. I think Jaren Jackson Jr's floor is the highest of any player in the draft. I would say that he is a lock for All-NBA defensive team at some point in his career, barring injury.

I agree with all of this post, really think JJJ could be an excellent fit here.

Here's who I want most on the Mavs (players like Trae Young omitted because I just don't think he fits):

DeAndre Ayton
Jaren Jackson Jr.
Michael Porter (if 100%, otherwise remove him completely from the list)
Luka Doncic
Marvin Bagley
Mo Bamba
Mikal Bridges

That's it, anybody else and I riot.

[tap2390]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I agree with all of this post, really think JJJ could be an excellent fit here.

Here's who I want most on the Mavs (players like Trae Young omitted because I just don't think he fits):

DeAndre Ayton
Jaren Jackson Jr.
Michael Porter (if 100%, otherwise remove him completely from the list)
Luka Doncic
Marvin Bagley
Mo Bamba
Mikal Bridges

That's it, anybody else and I riot.

This is pretty much my list verbatim, however depending on how Porter Jr., looks I'd consider him at #1.

[Magnum_3_Ball]

I saw a mock with Trae Young going to Orlando, and it made me think of an extra element to his value.

I think people forget that before Steph Curry was drafted by Golden State they were no more desirable a destination for free agents than any other bottom feeder. Several fortuitous events occurred to help the Warriors become what they are today, but it all started with Steph.

I could actually see the same thing happening with Trae in a place like Orlando. The weather is nice. You're a big deal in that city. You're close to Miami. Close to Atlanta. In 5 years time, it could be a very light conference just Celts, Sixers & Bucks to contend with.

Not saying all of this is likely or anything, but it's fair to include it in Trae's upside. Does drafting Mo Bamba bring that type of excitement to a franchise that a player like Kevin Durant leaves as a free agent to sign with Mo Bamba's team? Marvin Bagley? I don't think so. The only guy I can see having that kind of impact is Luka Doncic.

[Magnum_3_Ball]

Just heard Daryl Morey say something interesting on Bill Simmons' podcast. He said in recruiting free agents it's #1, #2, and #3 who is the star player they're going to play with? Then #4 he said players are getting smarter & realizing the Western Conference has been better than the East for so long because the West has better owners, so #4 is who is the owner. #5 is the organization and #6 is the coach.

So, which players in this draft do you guys think will be the most attractive to other FAs to come to Dallas and play with in 4-5 years?

Because for me I like a guy like Jaren Jackson Jr the most (I think) at this point, but I don't know if guys get will get super psyched to come play with him. That probably falls more towards players like Doncic & Trae Young, maybe even Ayton. But, I don't know. What do you guys think?

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Magnum_3_Ball

Just heard Daryl Morey say something interesting on Bill Simmons' podcast. He said in recruiting free agents it's #1, #2, and #3 who is the star player they're going to play with? Then #4 he said players are getting smarter & realizing the Western Conference has been better than the East for so long because the West has better owners, so #4 is who is the owner. #5 is the organization and #6 is the coach.

So, which players in this draft do you guys think will be the most attractive to other FAs to come to Dallas and play with in 4-5 years?

Because for me I like a guy like Jaren Jackson Jr the most (I think) at this point, but I don't know if guys get will get super psyched to come play with him. That probably falls more towards players like Doncic & Trae Young, maybe even Ayton. But, I don't know. What do you guys think?

I think guys will be psyched to play with Dennis, so I'm not too concerned about the hype factor with Jaren Jackson Jr. -- I'm perfectly fine with JJJ being Draymond to DSJ's Curry... Although I do think Ayton is going to bring that hype. Still not sure about Doncic, it really depends on how his game translates to the NBA -- I could see him being in the same ballpark as Bagley, hype-wise.

Still think Porter's game probably tops the hype list if he's 100% -- dude is exactly the type of player everyone wants to team up with.

[tap2390]

Trae Young with another sub-40% shooting night (3/13, 1/6 from three) for 11 points, 9 assists, 5 turnovers. The more I watch him play the more I’m convinced he’s closer to Barea than Curry.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by tap2390

Trae Young with another sub-40% shooting night (3/13, 1/6 from three) for 11 points, 9 assists, 5 turnovers. The more I watch him play the more I’m convinced he’s closer to Barea than Curry.

Still think he could be real good. When open he shoots a crazy percentage and opposing teams have basically decided to four-man zone with one man assigned just to Young or throw double teams at Young even when it means leaving teammates open. Young is on a team with basically no other talent. I think if Steph Curry were on that team, he may perform similarly or perhaps even worse. At least Young seems slightly more advanced at his ability to run an offense.

I don't want him on the Mavs, but I think a lot of his decline has more to do with the fact that teams have realized that they can play him 5-on-1, because he's the only real threat on that team. Give him a three point shooter or two and someone who can get open for the lob and I still think he could be putting up 28-14

[Magnum_3_Ball]

It's also fair to point out Curry was a Junior by the time he came to light at Davidson. Trae Young was like a month into his freshman season when he started getting the coaches stay up all night for a week trying to figure out how to stop him.

Young's performance of late is concerning for sure, but some context is also needed.