What are the odds that Parson will be a consistently very good player by mid season?

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by SeanL

Because that is why we paid him 14 mil a year. To have some good defensive plays every now and then.

No, they paid him $14m to pry him away from Houston. It was a longterm investment, and not necessarily one that was going to pay dividends 16 games into his first season with us.

Also, no need to downplay the fact that his defensive stops helped get us a win... Because he's being paid to help us win.

[SeanL]

Originally Posted by Underdog

No, they paid him $14m to pry him away from Houston. It was a longterm investment, and not necessarily one that was going to pay dividends 16 games into his first season with us.

Also, no need to downplay the fact that his defensive stops helped get us a win... Because he's being paid to help us win.

We can pay players A LOT less to merely help us win.

As for being a "long term investment." You don't pay players max contracts because you THINK that a player has the potential to be a good player down the road.

And this is especially true for the Dallas Mavericks front office, which has been atrocious in evaluating the potential of players. Hence, our unbelievably terrible draft record. The best player this group of clowns have drafted in the past 15 years is Josh Howard, and after him a who's who of nobodies.

[xtruroyaltyx]

If parsons develops into a guy where you say he was well worth the contract is be surprised. Been watching him for years and felt he was overrated. He's a guy that can feed off of other players but doesn't do anything consistently well. He will have some nice games and at the end of the year his stays will be nice but will constantly get outplayed by good opposing sf's.

I'm a rockets fan and honestly I was hoping like hell we wouldn't match. Even had we gotten bosh I was really thinking we shouldn't match because mchale was going to treat him like a star.

He's still young so I suppose he could develop into the guy you all want him to be, but if I had to bet I'd put money against that happening.

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by SeanL

We can pay players A LOT less to merely help us win.

As for being a "long term investment." You don't pay players max contracts because you THINK that a player has the potential to be a good player down the road.

And this is especially true for the Dallas Mavericks front office, which has been atrocious in evaluating the potential of players. Hence, are unbelievably terrible draft record. The best player this group of clowns have drafted in the past 15 years is Josh Howard, and after him a who's who of nobodies.

One of the big reasons we've sucked at drafting is because of how good we've been. You can't draft lebron James in the late 20s. In addition to that we've traded a ton of picks. It may be fun to look at a team like Milwaukee and say hey it'd be nice to have alphabet and Parker but the fact is they are trying to get to a point where they won't be able to pick those players either. If you want to blast someone's drafting blast the 76ers or the bobcats or the cavaliers since lebron.

Outside of the lakers and spurs, we've been the most successful team in the nba over dirks career(I know the heat have 3 rings but they've also had to rebuild a couple times and 2006 comes with the obvious caveats) we got parsons because they felt that this roster construction was the best possibility at giving dirk the best shot at a ring they could. Is it arguable that they were wrong? Sure. But it's way too early to say that.

[dirt_dobber]

((posted this in the PGT of Mavs win over Knicks but here for tracking his stats.))

he is getting us more scoring at the SF position than Marion did 14.1 to 8.4

-BUT-

(eeek, not good) look at all of his stats compared to Marion's last year in Dallas

player.........PPG....Reb.....Asst.....Steals..... ..FG%......3P%......FT%
Marion.........8.4....5.3......1.9.......(.9)..... ...(.482)...(.358)...(.785)
Parsons.......14.1...4.8......2.1.......(.9)...... ..(.408)...(.319)...(.712)

[dude1394]

I think we suck at drafting because until recently we didn't care about it. I believe Cuban even admitted it. Our drafts have been horrid among the horrid. If you think it's a waste of time, it will be.

We are very good at the deal and are so lucky to have Dirk it isn't funny. I cannot imagine what the rebuilding process will look like once the uber-safety-net is gone.

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

One of the big reasons we've sucked at drafting is because of how good we've been. You can't draft lebron James in the late 20s. In addition to that we've traded a ton of picks. It may be fun to look at a team like Milwaukee and say hey it'd be nice to have alphabet and Parker but the fact is they are trying to get to a point where they won't be able to pick those players either. If you want to blast someone's drafting blast the 76ers or the bobcats or the cavaliers since lebron.

Outside of the lakers and spurs, we've been the most successful team in the nba over dirks career(I know the heat have 3 rings but they've also had to rebuild a couple times and 2006 comes with the obvious caveats) we got parsons because they felt that this roster construction was the best possibility at giving dirk the best shot at a ring they could. Is it arguable that they were wrong? Sure. But it's way too early to say that.

[SeanL]

Originally Posted by dirt_dobber

((posted this in the PGT of Mavs win over Knicks but here for tracking his stats.))

he is getting us more scoring at the SF position than Marion did 14.1 to 8.4

-BUT-

(eeek, not good) look at all of his stats compared to Marion's last year in Dallas

player.........PPG....Reb.....Asst.....Steals..... ..FG%......3P%......FT%
Marion.........8.4....5.3......1.9.......(.9)..... ...(.482)...(.358)...(.785)
Parsons.......14.1...4.8......2.1.......(.9)...... ..(.408)...(.319)...(.712)

But Marion was much more efficient (.482% to Parsons .408%). I would much rather have a more efficient player with less scoring.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by dude1394

I think we suck at drafting because until recently we didn't care about it. I believe Cuban even admitted it. Our drafts have been horrid among the horrid. If you think it's a waste of time, it will be.

We are very good at the deal and are so lucky to have Dirk it isn't funny. I cannot imagine what the rebuilding process will look like once the uber-safety-net is gone.

I don't believe that "don't care about the draft" bullshit. At best it's a defense mechanism to explain away an abysmal draft record and maintain the status quo(although the brief Rosas dalliance may have been an aborted overture to change the approach). At worst he's telling the truth- they haven't cared about the draft- which is just plain dumb!

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by mac222b

I don't believe that "don't care about the draft" bullshit. At best it's a defense mechanism to explain away an abysmal draft record and maintain the status quo(although the brief Rosas dalliance may have been an aborted overture to change the approach). At worst he's telling the truth- they haven't cared about the draft- which is just plain dumb!

Yea, unfortunately I think it has been just plain dumb. They've stated that with the new cba, drafting will take a much higher importance. Certainly until they won the chip, draft picks were little more than a way to close a deal.

They will have to change now.

[tap2390]

Originally Posted by dirt_dobber

((posted this in the PGT of Mavs win over Knicks but here for tracking his stats.))

he is getting us more scoring at the SF position than Marion did 14.1 to 8.4

-BUT-

(eeek, not good) look at all of his stats compared to Marion's last year in Dallas

player.........PPG....Reb.....Asst.....Steals..... ..FG%......3P%......FT%
Marion.........8.4....5.3......1.9.......(.9)..... ...(.482)...(.358)...(.785)
Parsons.......14.1...4.8......2.1.......(.9)...... ..(.408)...(.319)...(.712)

Man that hurts to look at. On the bright side, the person widely anticipated to be our replacement for Parsons if ROX matched is having a bad season as well for the 4-12 Hornets (and has not been playing in the 4th quarter).

10 pts, 8 boards, and 5.4 assists on 36.8 FG%, 20.6 3P%, and 59.5 FT%.

[LSMF]

Could it be that Parsons needs the ball in his hands some more? It seems that the few times where we've let him initiate the offense he's been able to make good things happen. JVG alluded to this during our game vs the Knicks on Wednesday. In Houston, Parsons tended to be the second ball-handler after Harden. In our offense, he's mostly been a spot-up shooter (And it hasn't been pretty, Bricks galore). Hopefully if we can get him to initiate the offense some more and run more plays for him he can begin to ease his way out of his slump. I also would like to see Parsons cutting to the basket some more. There are numerous opportunities for him to get easy baskets by simply cutting to the rim. And another thing is that he has to make his open jumpers. It's been so frustrating watching him brick open jumpers. Parsons please step up your game, man.

[tap2390]

Originally Posted by LSMF

Could it be that Parsons needs the ball in his hands some more? It seems that the few times where we've let him initiate the offense he's been able to make good things happen. JVG alluded to this during our game vs the Knicks on Wednesday. In Houston, Parsons tended to be the second ball-handler after Harden. In our offense, he's mostly been a spot-up shooter (And it hasn't been pretty, Bricks galore). Hopefully if we can get him to initiate the offense some more and run more plays for him he can begin to ease his way out of his slump. I also would like to see Parsons cutting to the basket some more. There are numerous opportunities for him to get easy baskets by simply cutting to the rim. And another thing is that he has to make his open jumpers. It's been so frustrating watching him brick open jumpers. Parsons please step up your game, man.

I def think it's something that needs to be looked at. There's a few problems tho.

a) when running a pick and roll a switch between Parson's defender and Chandler's or Dirk's defender isn't as good of a matchup for the Mavs as when Monta or Devin run the PnR

b) Parsons doesn't really have that first step quickness to get past his man (he's looked better recently, but I def get what Carlisle was complaining about when he said Parsons put on too much muscle)

c) Do we have enough shooters around Parsons to give him space to operate? I know Dirk's man isn't going to cheat (39.4 3P%), but what about Jameer's man (36.5 3P%), Monta's man (31.5 3P%), or Devin's man (32.6 3P%)? I think a huge part of the Mavs keeping the ball in their guards hands is that it forces a defender to play them whereas said defender would be sagging and helping otherwise.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by SeanL

And this is especially true for the Dallas Mavericks front office, which has been atrocious in evaluating the potential of players. Hence, our unbelievably terrible draft record.

You seem to be slightly confused about how the Mavs acquired Chandler Parsons, so let me clear it up for you: they did not draft him.

The Mavs have been really poor at the draft for a long time. They have not, however, been anything near poor at "evaluating the potential of players." In fact, they've been mostly downright terrific at evaluating FA acquisitions and trade targets.

[dirt_dobber]

interesting points made in a column by Mike Marshall over at Fish's site
http://mavericks.scout.com/story/148...-the-day?s=268

"60% of Parsons’ second-half shots are three-pointers and he’s hitting 29.5% on those."
-AND-
"In his last 5 games, Parsons is shooting 29.4% in the second half with a spicy 15.8% from three and 55.6 percent on free throws."

[LSMF]

Parsons has been playing better as of late imho, he looks a lot sharper out there too. I really think his early struggles had to do with his conditioning. He still needs to knock down his open jumpers though.

[dude1394]

The odds are good.

[hayth.james.g]

Originally Posted by SeanL

Any smart ass comments now?

Where you at now?

[mavsfan1000]

Parsons playing better no doubt.

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by SeanL

Any smart ass comments now?

The L is short for Loser?

[SeanL]

You guys are running out of time

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by SeanL

You guys are running out of time

I like how he hit a runner right after you posted this...

[SeanL]

Of course I was right. You people are so blinded by your homerism. It's comical.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Just needs to be more decisive on offense. Jack of all trades and great at nothing will prevent him from taking that next step. And I do really like him as a player.

[mavsfan1000]

We'll see come playoff time. He does seem more comfortable now.

[endrity]

I think he has settled pretty well now actually. Parsons is not this team's problem. We can absolutely go on a deep playoff run with this type of contribution from him. It's other areas we need to address.

[bilease]

I actually like his contribution on offense, as with every player not named Tyson Chandler Id like to see a little more effort on the rebounds though.

[Bryan_Wilson]

Originally Posted by SeanL

He's really good at going off when playing shitty teams, then doing nothing against good teams. When we get to the playoffs that is going to be a huge problem for the Mavs.

At the ASB mark he's shooting 45% and 15.6ppg. Against teams who are 60% win/loss or better he is 47% shooting and 15.7ppg. This is including changing teams getting adjusted and then finally getting the feel for a team only to have a trade bring in a new pg to run offense and have to again find his way.

Originally Posted by SeanL

Of course I was right. You people are so blinded by your homerism. It's comical.

What's comical is you thinking you were right. Like starting a home run trot only to realize after rounding third it was 15 feet foul. Maybe mavs should have gotten ariza to shoot 37% from field and his garbage 36th ranked PER among qualifying SF's. Parsons is 10th ranked but hey go ahead and continue trotting.

[DirkFTW]

Originally Posted by SeanL

Of course I was right. You people are so blinded by your homerism. It's comical.

What do you mean "you people"? Huh?!

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by SeanL

Of course I was right. You people are so blinded by your homerism. It's comical.

"I was right because I said so. Other stuff."

[bunkmoreland]

Originally Posted by SeanL

Of course I was right. You people are so blinded by your homerism. It's comical.

Your timing is questionable.
Yes, he didn't have a great game Wednesday night against Utah.
Despite that, he has averaged 15.3 points, 6.5 rebounds, 3.5 assists over the last 6 games.

[SeanL]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Just needs to be more decisive on offense. Jack of all trades and great at nothing will prevent him from taking that next step. And I do really like him as a player.

How exactly is he a jack of all trades when his rebounds are under 5 and his assists are under 3? I guess his defense is all right. Nothing to write home about.

[SeanL]

Originally Posted by bilease

I actually like his contribution on offense, as with every player not named Tyson Chandler Id like to see a little more effort on the rebounds though.

last five games his FG% is 36...

[SeanL]

Originally Posted by bunkmoreland

Your timing is questionable.
Yes, he didn't have a great game Wednesday night against Utah.
Despite that, he has averaged 15.3 points, 6.5 rebounds, 3.5 assists over the last 6 games.

He is averaging 15 points because he is jacking up a bunch of shots. His FG percentage over that stretch is atrocious: 36%

So much delusion on this thread.

[NeedlesKane]

By mid-season of which season? Hopefully you weren't counting on it happening this year.

[Bryan_Wilson]

Originally Posted by SeanL

He is averaging 15 points because he is jacking up a bunch of shots. His FG percentage over that stretch is atrocious: 36%

So much delusion on this thread.

And yet he is still shooting 45% on the year and scoring those same 15ppg. So claiming he scores that much only because he's jacking up shots means absolutely nothing. You claim he pads his stats vs poor teams and disappears vs good teams. Yet his numbers do not support your claim and you are pointing others out as delusional. Is 15-16ppg 45% shooting worth 15m a year? No. However, you make him sound like a guy who doesn't help this team win games and plays good vs poor teams putting up meaningless numbers. He is a THIRD option on this team. He will not average 20+ on this team as a 3rd option scoring and he's down the list as a ball handler too. He is a jack of all trades regardless of his rebounding and assist numbers. The ball has been in rondo/monta/jj/devin's hands all much more than cp unless he has a match-up to exploit. I'm pretty sure he leaks out when guarding on the perimeter because he is such a good transition player(don't we lead league in pts of TO or transition? I can't rem). If this was not by design then RC would be in his ear. RC had no problem saying he put on too much weight. Why would he have an issue telling him he needs to crash boards better? If we are going to nitpick then sure, he needs to pick his spots better on leaking out and crashing. In the waning moments of close games the ball is in Ellis hands, rightfully so, then Dirk if he's got the match-up advantage. The one time parsons number was called is when blazers switched lillard onto him and he went off for 10 points in OT to beat them in a game he struggled until it mattered most.

The whole argument is flawed considering your obviously expecting him to take over games as a third option. Since he has had so few opportunities to take over, saying he is consistently good or bad becomes irrelevant. The fact is he is consistently putting up 15-16 a game off 45% shooting and plays solid not great defense. He also has been the most consistent from 3pt range of the starting unit. I think most expect him to grow more before next year since he came from rockettes where if it's not a layup and it's not a 3 then it's not a shot. He may be 26 but he is only in his 4th year in the NBA and 3 were with short bus mchale. He looks uncomfortable in the mid range and has one singular move, albeit a good one, the pump fake. If CP does not improve from year to year as Dirk's role decreases and his own increases then it will be an issue. But as a third option halfway through a year 1 of a new role and then a new pg, I think he's doing fine.

[SeanL]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

And yet he is still shooting 45% on the year and scoring those same 15ppg. So claiming he scores that much only because he's jacking up shots means absolutely nothing. You claim he pads his stats vs poor teams and disappears vs good teams. Yet his numbers do not support your claim and you are pointing others out as delusional. Is 15-16ppg 45% shooting worth 15m a year? No. However, you make him sound like a guy who doesn't help this team win games and plays good vs poor teams putting up meaningless numbers. He is a THIRD option on this team. He will not average 20+ on this team as a 3rd option scoring and he's down the list as a ball handler too. He is a jack of all trades regardless of his rebounding and assist numbers. The ball has been in rondo/monta/jj/devin's hands all much more than cp unless he has a match-up to exploit. I'm pretty sure he leaks out when guarding on the perimeter because he is such a good transition player(don't we lead league in pts of TO or transition? I can't rem). If this was not by design then RC would be in his ear. RC had no problem saying he put on too much weight. Why would he have an issue telling him he needs to crash boards better? If we are going to nitpick then sure, he needs to pick his spots better on leaking out and crashing. In the waning moments of close games the ball is in Ellis hands, rightfully so, then Dirk if he's got the match-up advantage. The one time parsons number was called is when blazers switched lillard onto him and he went off for 10 points in OT to beat them in a game he struggled until it mattered most.

The whole argument is flawed considering your obviously expecting him to take over games as a third option. Since he has had so few opportunities to take over, saying he is consistently good or bad becomes irrelevant. The fact is he is consistently putting up 15-16 a game off 45% shooting and plays solid not great defense. He also has been the most consistent from 3pt range of the starting unit. I think most expect him to grow more before next year since he came from rockettes where if it's not a layup and it's not a 3 then it's not a shot. He may be 26 but he is only in his 4th year in the NBA and 3 were with short bus mchale. He looks uncomfortable in the mid range and has one singular move, albeit a good one, the pump fake. If CP does not improve from year to year as Dirk's role decreases and his own increases then it will be an issue. But as a third option halfway through a year 1 of a new role and then a new pg, I think he's doing fine.

Do you think he is consistently a very good player?

[SeanL]

Originally Posted by NeedlesKane

By mid-season of which season? Hopefully you weren't counting on it happening this year.

see the beginning of this thread. A lot of people were.

[Bryan_Wilson]

Originally Posted by SeanL

Do you think he is consistently a very good player?

Consistently he has been a very good third option. He is top 10 in PER for qualifying SF's 9th among starters and the 2nd lowest only to luol deng in usage rating. So with his limited opportunities he is making the most of them on a consistent basis. Also considering since his rough start adjusting to this new team in his last 34 games he is 16ppg on 47% shooting. That would indicate that when this thread was made he has improved, boosting his season total to 45% and 15ppg, which everyone outside of you seems to acknowledge. I don't know what more ur wanting from the third option and he hasn't been a liability on defense he hasn't been "jacking up shots" to boost his ppg he is simply doing what a third option does and outside of dirk and tyson is our best off ball player in the starting lineup with how he spreads the floor. The other two options in free agency were ariza and deng. Ariza is a better defender but has a VERY below avergae PER of 12. He has 37% fg shooting and he gets tons of wide open looks. Deng is ahead of parsons but likely doesn't fit this offense the way parsons does and long term his body has much more mileage than parsons. This is all with rondo not even being in the same zip code chemistry wise with this team. Who is to say he will not continue to improve as he has alrdy done from his rocky start?

[SeanL]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

Consistently he has been a very good third option. He is top 10 in PER for qualifying SF's 9th among starters and the 2nd lowest only to luol deng in usage rating. So with his limited opportunities he is making the most of them on a consistent basis. Also considering since his rough start adjusting to this new team in his last 34 games he is 16ppg on 47% shooting. That would indicate that when this thread was made he has improved, boosting his season total to 45% and 15ppg, which everyone outside of you seems to acknowledge. I don't know what more ur wanting from the third option and he hasn't been a liability on defense he hasn't been "jacking up shots" to boost his ppg he is simply doing what a third option does and outside of dirk and tyson is our best off ball player in the starting lineup with how he spreads the floor. The other two options in free agency were ariza and deng. Ariza is a better defender but has a VERY below avergae PER of 12. He has 37% fg shooting and he gets tons of wide open looks. Deng is ahead of parsons but likely doesn't fit this offense the way parsons does and long term his body has much more mileage than parsons. This is all with rondo not even being in the same zip code chemistry wise with this team. Who is to say he will not continue to improve as he has alrdy done from his rocky start?

Do you think he is consistently a very good player? This is a simple yes or no question and you are giving me the run around.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by SeanL

Do you think he is consistently a very good player? This is a simple yes or no question and you are giving me the run around.

If you bothered to read anything written, then you'd have your answer (a very well-articulated one at that). The question you've posed is far more intricate than a simple yes or no answer... If you can't comprehend that, then maybe you should go back to trolling the political forum.