Nets talk with Mavs about Kidd trade?

[DelNegro]

Originally Posted by MFFL

The Larry Coon FAQ says the raise could be up to 10.5% which would put KVH salary at $18M which is within the 25% needed for trades.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#19

Coon #11 applies here since KVH would be signing a brand new deal. The raises discussed in #19 are the maximum raises allowed between years of a multi year contract. Since it's a new contract that first year salary is controlled by the max amount. That max amount being the greater of the CBA defined value or 105% of his previous salary. Quoted from Coon #11 below.

Players' maximum salaries are never less than 105% of their previous salary. For example, a ten-year veteran who earned $20 million in 2006-07 has a maximum salary of $22.1 million in 2007-08, even though that is above the league-wide maximum. A free agent does not need to remain with the same team in order to receive 105% of his previous salary, although the team that signs him is subject to the same salary cap restrictions as with any other free agent.

[dude1394]

Yup...shaq just fits here better than kidd does. Kidd is redundant and only appears to be a minor upgrade over devin. Whereas ANYONE (say Gasol. ) who can score in the post and is a 7-footer is a huge upgrade for us.

[Robillion]

OK people are saying Shaq some are saying Kidd... I dream of the day that we get Kidd through Stackhouse, Diop, Ager, draft picks, money, ect..and get Stackhouse back by signing him 30 days after the Nets buy him out... THEN doing the KVH deal, George, draft pics, money, ect for Shaq... pretty loaded then. .. though everything I just said was pretty worthless and wont happen.. heh

[MFFL]

Originally Posted by DelNegro

Coon #11 applies here since KVH would be signing a brand new deal. The raises discussed in #19 are the maximum raises allowed between years of a multi year contract. Since it's a new contract that first year salary is controlled by the max amount. That max amount being the greater of the CBA defined value or 105% of his previous salary. Quoted from Coon #11 below.

Players' maximum salaries are never less than 105% of their previous salary. For example, a ten-year veteran who earned $20 million in 2006-07 has a maximum salary of $22.1 million in 2007-08, even though that is above the league-wide maximum. A free agent does not need to remain with the same team in order to receive 105% of his previous salary, although the team that signs him is subject to the same salary cap restrictions as with any other free agent.

Except that KVH would make less than the 2007-08 max salary of $18,257,750 (even with his raise). This rule only applies to players who already make above the max for his years of service.

[DelNegro]

Originally Posted by MFFL

Except that KVH would make less than the 2007-08 max salary of $18,257,750 (even with his raise). This rule only applies to players who already make above the max for his years of service.

He's only got 9 years of service though. The CBA max for 9 years is $15,649,500. But since that would be less than 105% of his previous salary he could get the bigger number.

[DLord]

[I ran out of fingers and toes to compute it all, but the following are the numbers if my math is correct]

KVH can be paid the greater of ....
a. The max for a player with 9 yrs service, which is 30% of the cap (using a slightly different "cap number" from the $55.63M figure you know), or (per Coon's calculation) $15,649,500, or
b. 105% of his prior salary (which was $15,694,250) or $16,478,962.50

A salary of $16,478,962.50 would allow the Mavs to accept salary(s) in return up to a total of $20,698,703.10.

Such a contract would not qualify to be prorated. Whatever cap figure you select that exceeds the minimum, KVH would get paid that full amount. The team receiving that kind of snt contract, with a full year's salary to be paid over 2 months, might save some cap room (from the 25% cushion potentially gained) but would get a harsh hit to their cash flow.

After such a trade, the Mavs would be taxed on whatever contract(s) they end up with, regardless of who paid how much of the various salaries.

[MFFL]

Originally Posted by DelNegro

He's only got 9 years of service though. The CBA max for 9 years is $15,649,500. But since that would be less than 105% of his previous salary he could get the bigger number.

Nine years - I thought he had ten. My bad.

[craggmac]

Originally Posted by Robillion

OK people are saying Shaq some are saying Kidd... I dream of the day that we get Kidd through Stackhouse, Diop, Ager, draft picks, money, ect..and get Stackhouse back by signing him 30 days after the Nets buy him out... THEN doing the KVH deal, George, draft pics, money, ect for Shaq... pretty loaded then. .. though everything I just said was pretty worthless and wont happen.. heh

I'm down with that. There's no way the Basketball Gods will allow that too happen though.

[Robillion]

doesnt the lineup below look so appealing? heh.. I dont know why i think such rediculous things, but yeah. that would be sweet heh

Kidd /Harris
Harris /Terry/Hassle/Jones
Howard /Stackhouse
Dirk /Bass
Shaq /Damp

We would have every element needed to be a grreat defensive team AND a grrreat offensive team. le sigh

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Robillion

doesnt the lineup below look so appealing? heh.. I dont know why i think such rediculous things, but yeah. that would be sweet heh

Kidd /Harris
Harris /Terry/Hassle/Jones
Howard /Stackhouse
Dirk /Bass
Shaq /Damp

We would have every element needed to be a grreat defensive team AND a grrreat offensive team. le sigh

...but still no legitimate starting 2-guard...

[Robillion]

Originally Posted by Underdog

...but still no legitimate starting 2-guard...

I definitely believe that Harris can play 2 guard with Kidd running point. Also, Terry would be incredibly more efficient with Kidd running point. Terry is a pure SG and he needs to stay that way. I love Harris, but Terry would be good starting out in that case, with Harris having most minutes off bench possibly subbing in at the 1 and 2 and Stackhouse going back to his old bench role coming in at 2 or 3. .. but of course you may notice in my above scenario we didnt give up Terry.. sooo if we could use him to get another starting SG then great, but I would have renewed faith in Jet if Kidd was running the point.

[quiet riot act]

you know who the mavericks need ........ stevie nash

i wonder what it would take to get him


oh wait ....... we could have just paid him


but the player/coach liaison didn't find him to be a priority... he thought damp was more important

oh well lets make that guy head coach


and watch min fail and fail and fail


f avery johnson

[dude1394]

Is that you chum with another alias?

[cinemablend]

The mavs do not need a point guard. The Mavs need INSIDE SCORING.

*sigh*

[Robillion]

Originally Posted by cinemablend

The mavs do not need a point guard. The Mavs need INSIDE SCORING.

*sigh*

I do agree as well... or just someone that can take it to the rim. Hence why i prefer Maggette over miller and either of those over Kidd. I only like the idea of Kidd really if we could have somehow gotten a better big man as well and not had to get rid of Terry in either deal.

[G-Man]

Originally Posted by cinemablend
The mavs do not need a point guard. The Mavs need INSIDE SCORING.

*sigh*

Originally Posted by Robillion

I do agree as well... or just someone that can take it to the rim. Hence why i prefer Maggette over miller and either of those over Kidd. I only like the idea of Kidd really if we could have somehow gotten a better big man as well and not had to get rid of Terry in either deal.

If its up to me, there is much the Mavs need more than Kidd. An Eddie Jones type, 10 years younger, still able to slash, shoot and D up, would be ideal. Someone like Bass but 3 inches taller and 2 years more experienced would be next. If Cuban is willing to pay 20 million, It just makes no sense that the best choice is 35 years old, with bad knees, scoring 10 points a night. If we're talking max money, lets get a guy who you'd willingly offer max money to.

[skylive321]

Nets keep T-Wolves at bay
Wednesday, February 13, 2008
Last Updated Wednesday February 13, 2008, EST 10:03 AM
BY AL IANNAZZONE
STAFF WRITER
Email this story Printer friendly version

EAST RUTHERFORD – As Jason Kidd was trying to record his 100th career triple-double, his agent and Nets' special assistant Kiki Vandeweghe were engaged in a conversation just off the court.

Both men found their seats – there were plenty available -- in time to witness Kidd come one point and one assist shy of joining Oscar Robertson and Magic Johnson as the only players with at least 100 triple-doubles.

They also saw the Nets win their third straight game, a 92-88 defeat of the Minnesota Timberwolves on Tuesday night at Izod Center, which was less than half-full because of the wintry weather and the teams' combined 68 losses before this result.

The Nets (23-29) started to get separation late in the third quarter with an active group that featured Kidd, Sean Williams, Josh Boone, Bostjan Nachbar and Antoine Wright.

During one stretch, the Nets, who play their final game before the All-Star break tonight in Toronto, had three straight three-point opportunities, as Nachbar twice and Williams once scored inside on Kidd feeds.

"Those guys changed the game," coach Lawrence Frank said. "They got us going. We were stale."

Last month in Minnesota, the Nets blew a seven-point lead in the final 1:19 and allowed the Timberwolves to score the final 10 points. The Nets bent this time against Minnesota (10-40), letting a 12-point lead dip to four with 2:25 left. But they didn't break and moved into seventh place in the East.

After Kidd drained a three with 2:02 left to put the Nets ahead, 85-78, it didn't get closer than five until Randy Foye's three with 1.6 to go for the game's final points.

In what could be Kidd's last home game as a Net, he finished with nine points, 10 rebounds and nine assists, and didn't speak afterward.

The conversation between Vandeweghe and agent Jeff Schwartz started at halftime and continued through the start of the third. After the roughly 20-minute chat, Vandeweghe said the Nets were no closer to moving their best player.

This was the second straight game Vandeweghe met with someone who is very much involved in Kidd's potential future whereabouts.

Before the Nets played Dallas – the top team on Kidd's wish list -- on Sunday, Vandeweghe sat under one basket with Mavericks owner Mark Cuban. They worked together in Dallas and said they were catching up.

It's doubtful Vandeweghe and Schwartz were talking just about their families. Schwartz is trying to help get Kidd to the Mavericks, but as of now they haven't agreed on anything. It may require a third team for something to get done by the Feb. 21 trade deadline.

"There is nothing on the horizon right now," team president Rod Thorn said. "But that could change."

Vince Carter's 17 points and 10 assists paced the Nets. Nachbar had 14 points, and Richard Jefferson, who fought through a stomach virus and was given half a bag of intravenous fluid before the game, had 13 points and 12 rebounds.

A big factor in the win was limiting Minnesota big man Al Jefferson, who had 40 points and 19 rebounds against the Nets last month. Jefferson was held to 16 and 11 Tuesday.

"Every time he caught it we doubled him," Frank said. "It really was a team commitment because we didn't want to leave anyone there one-on-one. I think our guys did a very good job of ... disrupting his rhythm."

Minnesota was in the Nets' shoes, but waited until the off-season to trade its marquee player. The Timberwolves sent Kevin Garnett to the Celtics for Al Jefferson, Ryan Gomes, Gerald Green, Theo Ratliff, Sebastian Telfair, two first-round picks and cash.

The Nets, who may decide to try to move Kidd over the summer, probably would make a deal like that if they found one.

E-mail: iannazzone@northjersey.com

EAST RUTHERFORD – As Jason Kidd was trying to record his 100th career triple-double, his agent and Nets' special assistant Kiki Vandeweghe were engaged in a conversation just off the court.

Both men found their seats – there were plenty available -- in time to witness Kidd come one point and one assist shy of joining Oscar Robertson and Magic Johnson as the only players with at least 100 triple-doubles.

They also saw the Nets win their third straight game, a 92-88 defeat of the Minnesota Timberwolves on Tuesday night at Izod Center, which was less than half-full because of the wintry weather and the teams' combined 68 losses before this result.
IN THE 'ZZONE

The Record's AL IANNAZZONE with all your New Jersey Nets news and inside stories, up close and personal.

Visit the blog

The Nets (23-29) started to get separation late in the third quarter with an active group that featured Kidd, Sean Williams, Josh Boone, Bostjan Nachbar and Antoine Wright.

During one stretch, the Nets, who play their final game before the All-Star break tonight in Toronto, had three straight three-point opportunities, as Nachbar twice and Williams once scored inside on Kidd feeds.

"Those guys changed the game," coach Lawrence Frank said. "They got us going. We were stale."

Last month in Minnesota, the Nets blew a seven-point lead in the final 1:19 and allowed the Timberwolves to score the final 10 points. The Nets bent this time against Minnesota (10-40), letting a 12-point lead dip to four with 2:25 left. But they didn't break and moved into seventh place in the East.

After Kidd drained a three with 2:02 left to put the Nets ahead, 85-78, it didn't get closer than five until Randy Foye's three with 1.6 to go for the game's final points.

In what could be Kidd's last home game as a Net, he finished with nine points, 10 rebounds and nine assists, and didn't speak afterward.

The conversation between Vandeweghe and agent Jeff Schwartz started at halftime and continued through the start of the third. After the roughly 20-minute chat, Vandeweghe said the Nets were no closer to moving their best player.

This was the second straight game Vandeweghe met with someone who is very much involved in Kidd's potential future whereabouts.

Before the Nets played Dallas – the top team on Kidd's wish list -- on Sunday, Vandeweghe sat under one basket with Mavericks owner Mark Cuban. They worked together in Dallas and said they were catching up.

It's doubtful Vandeweghe and Schwartz were talking just about their families. Schwartz is trying to help get Kidd to the Mavericks, but as of now they haven't agreed on anything. It may require a third team for something to get done by the Feb. 21 trade deadline.

"There is nothing on the horizon right now," team president Rod Thorn said. "But that could change."

Vince Carter's 17 points and 10 assists paced the Nets. Nachbar had 14 points, and Richard Jefferson, who fought through a stomach virus and was given half a bag of intravenous fluid before the game, had 13 points and 12 rebounds.

A big factor in the win was limiting Minnesota big man Al Jefferson, who had 40 points and 19 rebounds against the Nets last month. Jefferson was held to 16 and 11 Tuesday.

"Every time he caught it we doubled him," Frank said. "It really was a team commitment because we didn't want to leave anyone there one-on-one. I think our guys did a very good job of ... disrupting his rhythm."

Minnesota was in the Nets' shoes, but waited until the off-season to trade its marquee player. The Timberwolves sent Kevin Garnett to the Celtics for Al Jefferson, Ryan Gomes, Gerald Green, Theo Ratliff, Sebastian Telfair, two first-round picks and cash.

The Nets, who may decide to try to move Kidd over the summer, probably would make a deal like that if they found one.

[nikeball]

No more BLAZERS in deal?

Kidd & DA for Devin, DG, Diop, Stack, Draft Pick & Cash?

------------------------------

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3244102

Sources: Talks between Mavs, Nets heat up

By Marc Stein
ESPN.com
(Archive)

Updated: February 13, 2008, 1:34 PM ET


Jason Kidd has quietly -- and not so quietly -- hoped for a trade to the Dallas Mavericks all season.

And now Kidd has stronger-than-ever hope that the wish will be granted, according to NBA front-office sources.

Sources told ESPN.com that talks between the Mavericks and Nets, which had seemingly stalled, grew serious after the teams played Sunday night in New Jersey and have moved them to the brink of completing the NBA's third blockbuster deal of the month.

Although sources say that the teams are still sorting out final details, this deal was described as "imminent" by one source close to the process after negotiations moved to an advanced stage Tuesday night. The proposed swap -- salvaged from talks of a three-way trade with Portland that developed and fizzled quickly two weeks ago -- would require Dallas to send 24-year-old point guard Devin Harris, veteran swingman Jerry Stackhouse, the expiring contracts of center DeSegana Diop and swingman Devean George and another player such as guard Maurice Ager to New Jersey for Kidd and possibly veteran guard Darrell Armstrong. It's believed that Dallas would also send New Jersey cash and future draft considerations.

Dallas has been widely considered the most likely winner of the Kidd trade sweepstakes, despite the repeated attempts of Mavericks owner Mark Cuban to publicly dismiss the idea of parting with multiple regulars for Kidd. Cuban told several New York-based reporters Sunday before New Jersey beat Dallas that a deal for All-Star floor leader would severely weaken his roster.

"For us to make the numbers work in a deal like that, we'd have to trade away half the team," Cuban said. "We're not doing that, so it just doesn't work. And we like our team. We've got a lot of room for improvement and we hope to get better. But right now, I just don't see anything happening.

Yet sources close to the process insist that the talks have heated up in the past 24 hours, with the Mavs still tantalized by the prospect of bringing Kidd back more than a decade after the pre-Cuban regime drafted him out of Cal, watched him share rookie of the year honors with Grant Hill in 1994-95 and then traded him to Phoenix on the day after Christmas in 1996.

The Mavs' biggest reservation, though, isn't sacrificing Harris. Sources maintain that Dallas, while reluctant to part with one of Cuban's favorite players and its point guard of the future after signing Harris to a contract extension over the summer, has been resigned for some time to losing Harris if it meant getting Kidd back.

The greater hesitation, sources said, is that they would also have to part with Stackhouse and Diop, weakening Dallas' depth. Although it's believed that Stackhouse is likely to be bought out and released by the Nets, which would enable Dallas to re-sign him if he sits out for 30 days, there's no guarantee they can convince Stackhouse to resist the interest of other teams to return once he becomes a free agent. Losing Diop, meanwhile, is an even bigger blow, as that would leave the undependable Erick Dampier as the Mavericks' only veteran center at a time when potential playoff foes like the Los Angeles Lakers (Pau Gasol) and Phoenix Suns (Shaquille O'Neal) are getting bigger.

But Dallas appears more motivated than ever in spite of those concerns and the current lack of a third team to join in and broaden the trade, believing that Kidd -- although he turns 35 in March and is threatening to establish a new career low with his 36.7 percent shooting from the field -- is still a prime source of leadership and mental toughness.

Kidd displayed those qualities in abundance during a strong summer with Team USA and those areas are well-chronicled weak spots for the Mavs, who followed up a historic collapse to Miami in the 2006 NBA Finals with a first-round flameout against Golden State after winning 67 games last season. A point guard of Kidd's caliber, influence and experience would undoubtedly please the demanding Avery Johnson, reinvigorate a team that has been lacking energy and confidence and supply Dallas' coach with a dangerous four-man core of Kidd, Josh Howard, Jason Terry and reigning MVP Dirk Nowitzki.

Nowitzki is the player Kidd has had in mind when privately telling associates in recent months that he hoped to go back to Dallas. Although his desire to leave New Jersey had been suspected all season, Kidd didn't go public with that wish until late January, when he told ESPN The Magazine's Ric Bucher that it's time for him and New Jersey "all to move on" in separate directions.

Kidd was acquired by the Nets in the 2001 offseason in a trade with Phoenix featuring Stephon Marbury and sparked New Jersey to the most successful period in the team's NBA history, starting with back-to-back trips to the NBA Finals in 2002 and 2003. After giving strong consideration to signing with San Antonio in the summer of 2003, Kidd elected to stay with the Nets. During the past four-plus seasons, however, New Jersey has not advanced past the second round of the playoffs, despite the 2004 arrival of Vince Carter and Kidd's successful recovery from microfracture knee surgery.

The Nets were prepared to deal Kidd to the Lakers at the trade deadline last season but pulled out of the deal when the Lakers refused to part with center Andrew Bynum, who has since blossomed. This deal would give them a highly rated point guard who's 10 years younger than Kidd and three cap-friendly contracts if the Mavericks indeed include Ager.

The Nets could come away with even more salary-cap relief if the Mavericks built their trade package around Harris and a signed-and-traded Keith Van Horn. Although he has been out of the game since the end of the 2005-06 season, Van Horn hasn't filed official retirement papers with the league, allowing Dallas to retain his rights. And because Van Horn's final NBA salary was nearly $16 million, Dallas can re-sign him for a substantial amount and thus create a lucrative expiring contract for the Nets, because only the first year of a contract must be guaranteed in a sign-and-trade arrangement.

Cuban, though, told ESPN.com last week that "we won't use [Van Horn] in any deal for anyone." That's because Kidd would cost the Mavericks nearly $40 million next season, thanks to the luxury tax, if they sent only Harris, Van Horn and salary-cap filler to the Nets.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Hey Marc Stein, where are these "sources" coming from? If Cuban said he isn't trading Harris and won't use KVH, then who could possible be telling you this? This sounds liek the same BS we heard before.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Hey Marc Stein, where are these "sources" coming from? If Cuban said he isn't trading Harris and won't use KVH, then who could possible be telling you this? This sounds liek the same BS we heard before.

That begs the question: who else is going after Kidd & how much will these rumors drive up the price for him?

[jthig32]

Stein is generally pretty legit, and plugged into the Mavs.

I believe he has people telling him this stuff. Maybe (and HOPEFULLY) they're fibbing, but Stein wouldn't make this stuff up, I don't think.

[LSMF]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Stein is generally pretty legit, and plugged into the Mavs.

I believe he has people telling him this stuff. Maybe (and HOPEFULLY) they're fibbing, but Stein wouldn't make this stuff up, I don't think.

Yeah I definitely agree, I don't know what to think, I'm angry as hell and I'm happy at the same time.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Stein is generally pretty legit, and plugged into the Mavs.

I believe he has people telling him this stuff. Maybe (and HOPEFULLY) they're fibbing, but Stein wouldn't make this stuff up, I don't think.

Stein might not make stuff up, but his sources might...

[DelNegro]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Hey Marc Stein, where are these "sources" coming from? If Cuban said he isn't trading Harris and won't use KVH, then who could possible be telling you this? This sounds liek the same BS we heard before.

What coaches, GMs and owners say to the public isn't always going to be what they really think. You can't trust that what Cuban said is fact.

[MFFL]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Stein wouldn't make this stuff up, I don't think.[/FONT]

Stein wouldn't make up a fictional trade - he's a legit writer.

Now the New Jersey GM might be feeding him bullshit in hopes that it might get the Mavs moving on a deal

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by DelNegro

What coaches, GMs and owners say to the public isn't always going to be what they really think. You can't trust that what Cuban said is fact.

Ok I'm responding on both of the same topics here, lets all go tot he one on the main general discussion page. Cuban made it pretty clear though that the trade that will happen will be the one noone talks about. Not sure he would lie about that. We'll see.

[DelNegro]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Ok I'm responding on both of the same topics here, lets all go tot he one on the main general discussion page. Cuban made it pretty clear though that the trade that will happen will be the one noone talks about. Not sure he would lie about that. We'll see.

Of course he would lie about it. Ever buy a car? If you told the salesman nothing but the truth chances are you're not going to get as good a deal as you would have had you fibbed a little.

NBA trades work the same way. "I'm not trading Devin" could mean "I'm not trading Devin" or it could mean "I want you to think that I'm not trading Devin". Pretend for a second the Mavs are talking about getting Kidd with Devin being in the deal. Is Cuban supposed to come out and say "Hey look everybody, we're trying to trade Devin for Kidd"? What happens if the deal falls through? You've gotten your fans worked up, you've told your team you don't think they're good enough, and most importantly, you've pissed off Devin. Wouldn't you be better off to just deny everything and squash all rumors until you knew something for certain?

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by DelNegro

Of course he would lie about it. Ever buy a car? If you told the salesman nothing but the truth chances are you're not going to get as good a deal as you would have had you fibbed a little.

NBA trades work the same way. "I'm not trading Devin" could mean "I'm not trading Devin" or it could mean "I want you to think that I'm not trading Devin". Pretend for a second the Mavs are talking about getting Kidd with Devin being in the deal. Is Cuban supposed to come out and say "Hey look everybody, we're trying to trade Devin for Kidd"? What happens if the deal falls through? You've gotten your fans worked up, you've told your team you don't think they're good enough, and most importantly, you've pissed off Devin. Wouldn't you be better off to just deny everything and squash all rumors until you knew something for certain?

In theory that could be true but I haven't known him to out-right lie like this. I mean it comes down to believing the owner or believe Stein's sources. I'll stick with the owner until something actually happens.

[Windmill360]

i'm going to be sick, or thoroughly surprised.

[skylive321]

kidd is coming here guys... i hate to dissapoint the naysayers but this deal looks like its going down from what im seeing around the net

[Dr.Zoidberg]

Probably done Deal: The Nets agree to trade All-Star point guard Jason Kidd and Malik Allen to the Mavericks for Devin Harris, Jerry Stackhouse, Devean George, DeSagana Diop, two first-round picks and cash, sources tell Tony Mejia of CBSSports.com.

Link (Look at site above)