Nets talk with Mavs about Kidd trade?

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

I don't believe that Stein has ever suggested the Mavs would deal both Harris and Howard for Kidd. Where are you getting that? I heard Stein on the radio yesterday, and he clearly said that the Mavs would not do that deal. He said that NJ would ask for it, of course, but that the Mavs would say no. Obviously.

My guess is that they would trade Harris for Kidd straight up IN A HURRY. Of course, the deal couldn't be done straight-up, so there would have to be more added to it.

When you say that Cuban has proven he would go away from what the coach wants, I guess you are talking about Nellie. Has Cuban proven to you that he would go away from what Avery wants? From Dough Christie all the way to Eddie Jones, Avery seems to have a lot more input than Nellie did in the late stages.

I guess I should have been more clear. Stein said in the article linked above that they Mavs would "probably not" trade Howard and Harris for Kidd. In my opinion, that's like saying the Mavs would "probably not" trade Dirk for Kidd. Just thought it was strange he gave it any possibility at all.

Why do you assume that Doug Christie and Eddie Jones were Avery acquisitions, and not people that the management group as a whole agreed on? Because they were known for their defense.

There is zero evidence that I am aware of that Avery spearheaded either move.

And removing salary cap restrictions, I doubt the Mavs would send Harris for Kidd straight up, as old as Kidd is. They might, I'm not saying it's not possible.

But I sure hope they wouldn't.

[chumdawg]

If there were no cap restrictions, I believe that the Mavs would trade Harris for Kidd in a heartbeat, and look around for whoever was punking them. It's a no-brainer.

You might think that Doug Christie and the others were Donnie Nelson acquisitions, but I remain convinced that Avery has been driving the acquisitions for some time now. Which makes him in part a de facto GM.

[jthig32]

If Stein is right and Devin is not an Avery guy, and you are right that Avery is the defacto GM, then how did Devin get his extension this off season?

[chumdawg]

Just because you don't like a guy doesn't mean that you let him walk. Oh, well...unless you are the GM Mark Cuban and it's time to re-sign Steve Nash...

But I digress.

Are you suggesting that Devin wouldn't have received an extension if Avery didn't like him? That's silly. You don't give assets away for nothing. Well, again, unless you are Mark Cuban and you got in a pissing contest with an agent. But...normal people don't give away an asset.

[Stressboy]

I'm all for Kidd for Harris. This team needs a kick in the ass and getting a point guard that can guard the big guards, grab rebounds and average 10 assists on this team is a no brainer. If you get Kidd, you can play terry at the 2. I'd take my chances with Parker, AI, and Nash with a starting lineup of Kidd, Terry, Josh, Dirk, Damp along with Jones, Diop, Stack, Bass off of the bench.

True he's done in 2 years but this team has to win a championship in the next 2 years or we would be trading pieces away to get back into position.

[Dtownsfinest]

Harris is to good of a deal for the Nets. That's exactly what they want. A young point guard in return. Kidd wants out of New Jersey. That automatically gives Dallas the edge in trade talk. Everyone outside of Harris, Josh, Dirk and Jet are available. NETS want youth. Who can blame them. Kidd can still play in this league. The question comes down to how good can this Mavs team be with Kidd. If Cuban feels we can win a championship with Kidd on this team then by all means do what it takes to get him in here. Even if it means contending for only 2 or 3 years. I think Josh or Harris can get Kidd in here. Between those two i'd probably send Harris out the door. I think he has potential(i've been saying this for 3 years it seems) but bringing Kidd in here will probably stop his progress permanently. I don't see Harris recovering from being benched once again.

[alby]

NJ is actually pretty high on Marcus Williams, he's just hurt at the moment.

BTW, Kidd went for 13/13/10 today

[spreedom]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Just because you don't like a guy doesn't mean that you let him walk. Oh, well...unless you are the GM Mark Cuban and it's time to re-sign Steve Nash...

But I digress.

You ALWAYS digress, and you ALWAYS bring up Moppy. Time to move on!

[Henry_VIII]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

I wish I could get a job writing about sports, and leading people on about things that have 0.00000% chance of happening.

In other words the odds are less than 1 in 20,000. So, you're telling me there's a chance!

[Dr.Zoidberg]

From the Chicago Tribune:

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Kidd has been bashing the underachieving Nets much of the season, and he'll probably be traded with the team going nowhere. I got a few e-mails about this with Kirk Hinrich's struggles, but Kidd won't be dealt within the Eastern Conference. The belief is he'll end up with the Dallas Mavericks, where he started his career.

The Mavs have regressed, especially on defense, and hardly look like a serious contender anymore. Dirk Nowitzki clearly is carrying the sting of consecutive playoff embarrassments. They need a jump-start, and few players provide it like Kidd, who once revitalized the Nets. He's ready to go, and they're ready for change. The Mavs' strength has been depth, and they have the pieces to satisfy the Nets with a young but struggling point guard in Devin Harris and some pieces like Jerry Stackhouse and Jason Terry.

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Link

[alby]

kidd/howard/dirk?

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by alby

kidd/howard/dirk?

Better go back to Nellies run and gun if this is the case, IMO.

[SeriousSummer]

Kidd & Krstic for Harris, Dampier, Bass and Trenton Hassell works as a deal.

It isn't that easy to find a match for salaries--that's why Dampier and Hassell have to go into the deal (assuming Dirk, Terry & Howard are untouchable). That leaves Dallas short at the center position--so that's why Krstic goes into the deal, but then New Jersey will want some more talent, so Bass goes in the deal.

Instead, or if NJ won't part with Krstic, then you can take Josh Boone instead and keep Bass.

[SeriousSummer]

Or Kidd for Harris, Terry & Stackhouse works, but that leaves Dallas really thin at the guard position:

Kidd, Barrea
Jones, Hassell
Howard, George
Dirk, Bass
Damp, Diop

[thereaper]

Harris/Stack/Damp for Kidd after Dec 15. (Stack can't be traded before then)

[Dtownsfinest]

How does the rest of the league feel about Dampier? The Nets need a big man so you'd think they'd be high on him but with his contract they probably lose interests.

[jthig32]

There is no way in hell I'd give up Damp, Stack and Harris for Kidd.

At the very least you have to have a viable option to replace Damp, who is our starting center and very much needed here.

[Rick41]

Jason Kidd won't be dealt within the Eastern Conference. The belief is he'll end up with the Dallas Mavericks, where he started his career. The Mavs have regressed, especially on defense, and hardly look like a serious contender anymore. Dirk Nowitzki clearly is carrying the sting of consecutive playoff embarrassments. They need a jump-start, and few players provide it like Kidd, who once revitalized the Nets. He's ready to go, and they're ready for change. The Mavs' strength has been depth, and they have the pieces to satisfy the Nets with a young but struggling point guard in Devin Harris and some pieces like Jerry Stackhouse and Jason Terry. -- Chicago Tribune

[Dirkadirkastan]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

/thread

Agreed.

[jthig32]

Ha. Now Dirkadirkastan's post is rather confusing.

[MavsX]

wow, i actually would be shocked if the mavs gave up harris, stackhouse and terry.

edit if we trade those 3 guys for jason kidd, i will eat my own shoe.

[dude1394]

We'd be in a heap of trouble if we traded damp and didn't have a replacement. But kidd for harris/stack??? hmmm....So why would NJ do that?

[Dirkadirkastan]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Ha. Now Dirkadirkastan's post is rather confusing.

Now yours is.

[Dr.Zoidberg]

Originally Posted by alby

"7. Mavericks -- Impossible because Devin Harris just signed a big extension (making him impossible to trade) and I can't imagine why the Nets would want to touch Jason Terry's contract (five years, $48 million remaining) or Erick Dampier's contract (4 years, $41.5 million remaining). You could argue that "Terry + a giant expiring contract + two No. 1 picks would be a decent haul," but the Mavs don't have one of those Theo Ratliff-like expiring contracts and their No. 1 picks aren't appealing, anyway. So they're out."

no one would want to touch JET's contract.

To the underlined argument of Simmons, David Lord of DB.com wrote:

Simmons didnt do his homework at all. Or maybe he did it, and did it wrong.

Because of the size of Kidd's contract, a Kidd trade for Harris wouldn't be a challenge in the least.

In a Kidd-for-Harris deal, the Mavs could simply add $11.71M (or more) in contracts and the deal would work. And if the Mavs wanted to do so, they have the option to create an expiring contract with Keith Van Horn in any precise amount up to $16.689M, meaning they also would have more-than-enough (and exactly the right size) expiring filler if they wanted to do the deal and could agree on talent.

Link

[dalmations202]

Harris and KVH (who makes out like a bandit when they buy him out) for Kidd......???

The way Avery is playing Devin, if I were Mark and Donnie, I'd pull the trigger. Puts them way over the cap, and still doesn't get them an inside back the basket starter, but if Kidd keeps playing the way he has been -- it would be hard not to.

Kidd, Jones, Howard, Dirk, Damp -- offensive weakness Damp, defensive Dirk (not shabby)
Terry, Stack, George, Bass, Diop -- true role players that offer different skillsets than the starters except in Diop case and Stacks case.

Hassell, JuHoward, JJB


Nice starting 5, and nice depth.

Would NJ do it?

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

Now yours is.

Darn you!

[Dirkenstien]

Originally Posted by SeriousSummer

Kidd & Krstic for Harris, Dampier, Bass and Trenton Hassell works as a deal.

It isn't that easy to find a match for salaries--that's why Dampier and Hassell have to go into the deal (assuming Dirk, Terry & Howard are untouchable). That leaves Dallas short at the center position--so that's why Krstic goes into the deal, but then New Jersey will want some more talent, so Bass goes in the deal.

Instead, or if NJ won't part with Krstic, then you can take Josh Boone instead and keep Bass.

I like this trade a lot.

Not sure how they feel about Damp's contract but the Nets really need a big quality center to compete in the East. Also a future backcourt of Harris and Marcus Williams would be pretty stellar and would seemingly go perfectly with the fast-breaking/running style of Jefferson and Carter.

*Dallas Potential Lineup:

Diop/ Krstic
Dirk/ Juwan Howard
Howard/ George
Stackhouse/ Jones/ Ager
Kidd/ Terry/ Barea

*NJ Potential Lineup:

Damp/ Collins
S. Williams/ Bass / Malik Allen
Jefferson/ Nachbar
Carter/ Hassell/ Gill
Harris/ Williams

Looks good for both teams and I'd throw in a future 1st rounder to seal the deal for NJ.

[DelNegro]

Honestly, does Erick Dampier really give the Nets anything that they don't already have in the combination of Sean Williams, Jason Collins and Nenad Kristic? Even if he does, is it really worth taking on his contract considering he makes more than those 3 guys combined?

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by DelNegro

Honestly, does Erick Dampier really give the Nets anything that they don't already have in the combination of Sean Williams, Jason Collins and Nenad Kristic? Even if he does, is it really worth taking on his contract considering he makes more than those 3 guys combined?

Nope. Dampier is far more important to the Mavs than he would be for the Nets.

It's ironic. I wouldn't send Damp and Harris to the Nets for Kidd, and I don't think they'd accept it anyway.

[DelNegro]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Nope. Dampier is far more important to the Mavs than he would be for the Nets.

It's ironic. I wouldn't send Damp and Harris to the Nets for Kidd, and I don't think they'd accept it anyway.

That's pretty much the Mavs problem in any trade they want to pull off. Terry's in that same boat. On the Mavs, he's a great piece. But to another team, he's not worth as much.

Howard and Harris are guys any team in the league would like to have, but Howard's BYC and Harris has the poison pill provision which makes them hard to trade.

It's ironic that one of the deepest teams in the league has so few tradeable assets.

[MavsX]

the dallas mavericks were never in the jason kidd race to begin with.

[DelNegro]

See what happens when you don't break the bank?

[Dirkenstien]

Originally Posted by DelNegro

That's pretty much the Mavs problem in any trade they want to pull off. Terry's in that same boat. On the Mavs, he's a great piece. But to another team, he's not worth as much.

Howard and Harris are guys any team in the league would like to have, but Howard's BYC and Harris has the poison pill provision which makes them hard to trade.

It's ironic that one of the deepest teams in the league has so few tradeable assets.

Forgive me for my ignorance but what is the poison pill provision?

[DelNegro]

Originally Posted by Dirkenstien

Forgive me for my ignorance but what is the poison pill provision?

This applies when trying to trade guys who are on rookie scale contracts who have already signed a big contract extension that hasn't kicked in yet. It turns that player's incoming salary for the team trying to acquire him into the average of all the years he has left on the deal, but leaves his outgoing salary for the team trying to trade him as what he's making now.

Probably easier to use an example. Devin's making $4 mil this year. I forget what Devin's extension was, but for easy math lets say it was 5 years, $44 mil. So if the Mavs were trying to trade him, they would use $4 mil as his outgoing salary. But the team trying to acquire him would use $8 mil as his incoming salary, total of $48 mil owed to him averaged over the next 6 years.

I believe the theory behind this was the league didn't want teams to get around the salary cap by being able to acquire guys who's salaries are well below market value because they're confined to a rookie deal. In other words, the league doesn't want someone to be able to acquire a $9 mil per year talent in a trade where they only had to match $4 mil per year in salary.

[Dirkenstien]

So, according to this example, New Jersey would have to match his current 4 mil salary in the trade but once he was acquired he would count 8 mil against their cap?

[MavsX]

Originally Posted by DelNegro

This applies when trying to trade guys who are on rookie scale contracts who have already signed a big contract extension that hasn't kicked in yet. It turns that player's incoming salary for the team trying to acquire him into the average of all the years he has left on the deal, but leaves his outgoing salary for the team trying to trade him as what he's making now.

Probably easier to use an example. Devin's making $4 mil this year. I forget what Devin's extension was, but for easy math lets say it was 5 years, $44 mil. So if the Mavs were trying to trade him, they would use $4 mil as his outgoing salary. But the team trying to acquire him would use $8 mil as his incoming salary, total of $48 mil owed to him averaged over the next 6 years.

I believe the theory behind this was the league didn't want teams to get around the salary cap by being able to acquire guys who's salaries are well below market value because they're confined to a rookie deal. In other words, the league doesn't want someone to be able to acquire a $9 mil per year talent in a trade where they only had to match $4 mil per year in salary.

thanks for the example. good work.

[DelNegro]

Originally Posted by Dirkenstien

So, according to this example, New Jersey would have to match his current 4 mil salary in the trade but once he was acquired he would count 8 mil against their cap?

Other way around. New Jersey would have to match $8 mil in trade, but once a deal got made he would only count $4 mil against the cap, which is what his actual salary is.

[Dirkenstien]

Oh ok, thanks for clearing that up. Very helpful.

In that case, considering Kidd's hefty salary, it seems this would be something that would increase the odds of a trade going down as theoretically we would have to part with less players and it would allow NJ to temporarily catch a break financially.

[Mavs46]

When is the NBA trading deadline?

[alby]

towards the end of February

February 22 I believe? anyone know?