Nets talk with Mavs about Kidd trade? - Page 3 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

adirktotheheart · 12-11-2007, 11:11 PM

Funny, but while the Nets naturally are better on offense when Kidd's on the court, they're also worse defensively:

ht_p://www.82games.com/0708/07NJN1D.HTM

Dr.Zoidberg · 12-12-2007, 09:40 AM

Kidd In Dallas? Not Impossible

By Marc Stein | ESPN.com

Dobby (Dallas): Kevin Garnett. Kobe Bryant. Now it's Jason Kidd. You guys always write that Dallas is "at the top of their list," but when will my Mavs actually get one of these guys?

Marc Stein: The Mavs were always outsiders in the KG chase. They were never close to beating Boston's offer and their involvement was more along the lines of making a bid because that's what teams in their position do when a great player becomes available. I don't remember anyone here saying that KG had his eyes on Dallas.

Kobe, by contrast, has been saying privately that Dallas is one of the two or three teams he wanted to go if he left the Lakers. Once that got out, how were the Mavs not going to be linked with him?

Kidd is a different case altogether. The Mavs have maintained various levels of interest in bringing him back to Big D since Nash left in the summer of 2004. And they're not going to publicly announce their interest now, but the sense I get is that they would love to find a way to get him to Dallas. I believe that Kidd, furthermore, is intrigued by the idea of finishing up his career where it started. Maybe he's not pushing for a trade, but he's also not against a trade to the right team if the Nets don't have a plan to return to the East's elite in the near future. You heard Kidd mention his "list of destinations" last week when he shot down the idea of winding up in Cleveland. Having a list like that suggests he's not convinced that he'll be retiring a Net.

Things are pretty quiet at this point because the Nets insist they won't be entertaining Kidd proposals from Dallas or anyone else. If (when?) that changes, should the Nets' season continue to unravel, I assure you that Dallas will be at the front of the line making a hard push.

Link

fluid.forty.one · 12-12-2007, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

I wish I could get a job writing about sports, and leading people on about things that have 0.00000% chance of happening.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Flacolaco again.

Dr.Zoidberg · 12-15-2007, 08:00 AM

From Sports Illustrated:

Quote:

3. What's up with MVP Dirk Nowitzki this season? He doesn't look like the same player, and now Josh Howard seems to be emerging as the Mavs' focal point on offense. What are your thoughts on how Dirk has responded after struggling in the playoffs last season?
-- John Gordon of New Mexico

Everyone saw how Golden State succeeded in limiting Nowitzki in the first round of the playoffs last season, and now defenses are turning him into a passer. He's trying to do the right thing -- his 3.8 assists per game are a career high -- but his teammates haven't figured how how to swing the ball back around to him, and on top of that he's shooting a nine-year low of 29.5 percent from the three-point line. There isn't an opponent that wouldn't prefer to see Howard (22.2 ppg) outscoring Nowitzki (21.4), which is why the Mavs are third in the Southwest at 14-9.

Coach Avery Johnson learned from San Antonio that it's OK to lose a few games early while learning how to win the bigger games later. But what if this group can't adapt?

"Jason Kidd could be the missing piece for them,'' said a scout who has been following the Mavericks. "They don't have a true point guard. When they can't get into offense they take a lot of bad shots, which surprises me with Johnson as their coach. But if you look at their shot chart or their selection for a game, it's not impressive.

"Kidd would push them and they would have to worry about nothing but getting down the floor. They'd get all the easy baskets they need and they wouldn't have to be so structured in the half-court. Kidd isn't a good shooter in the half-court, but he hits big shots.''

Dallas is deep enough to assemble a deal for Kidd, who has let it be known that he wouldn't mind returning there.

"The Mavs should be thinking hard about giving up anybody but Nowitzki or Josh Howard in a trade for Kidd,'' the scout said. "And maybe they shouldn't be opposed to putting Howard in the package.''

Link

Kidd is very good and I would like him here, but I never would trade Josh for Kidd. LOL.

alby · 12-15-2007, 12:24 PM

"He's trying to do the right thing -- his 3.8 assists per game are a career high -- but his teammates haven't figured how how to swing the ball back around to him"

"They don't have a true point guard. When they can't get into offense they take a lot of bad shots, which surprises me with Johnson as their coach. But if you look at their shot chart or their selection for a game, it's not impressive."

Dirkenstien · 12-17-2007, 02:56 PM

"And maybe they shouldn't be opposed to putting Howard in the package.''

There is no existing scenario between the Mavericks and Nets in which trading Howard would be a good idea.

LonghornDub · 12-17-2007, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkenstien

"And maybe they shouldn't be opposed to putting Howard in the package.''

There is no existing scenario between the Mavericks and Nets in which trading Howard would be a good idea.

How bout Howard for Kidd and Carter?

Oh, wait, you said "existing".

MavsX · 12-17-2007, 04:13 PM

well this deal isn't getting done.

Tokey41 · 12-17-2007, 05:19 PM

Harris - maybe, depends what else they want

Howard - laugh at them and hang up

We're trying to win right now, while I know Harris is going to turn into a great player we don't know when that will happen. Kidd can immediately help Dallas in our (about 3 year) title run. And i'm a firm beliver he will play out of his mind once traded to a contender. That said, i still think he's a crappy human being... but i've pushed for Artest and Kobe before because that doesn't count for a lot when your on the basketball court. Talent does.

Dirkenstien · 12-18-2007, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProdigyDub

How bout Howard for Kidd and Carter?

Oh, wait, you said "existing".

Well it doesn't even have to be an existing scenario. There is just no scenario where I think it would be a good idea at all. No way we trade him to NJ barring some kind of multiple team deal but even that is highly unlikely unless we're getting Kobe in return.

MavsX · 12-18-2007, 11:06 AM

^ i like your sig.

Dr.Zoidberg · 12-18-2007, 02:21 PM

Rival GM Still Hearing Kidd To Dallas Trade Talk
December 18, 2007 - 1:08 pm

Chicago Tribune - Though both teams continue to deny it vehemently, a rival general manager said last week he's still hearing talk of a Nets-Mavs deal involving Jason Kidd.

Kidd is said to be upset that Vince Carter and Richard Jefferson have better contracts than he does.

Dallas remains Kidd's most likely destination, but the Lakers are frequently mentioned. The Lakers' refusal to give up Bynum for Kidd last winter now looks awfully smart. The Lakers have Kwame Brown's $9 million expiring contract and some young pieces and draft picks that might make sense for the Nets. And, the Mavs have plenty in reserve to make a deal as well.

Link

Dirkenstien · 12-18-2007, 05:06 PM

The guy can't seriously be complaining about his contract, right? He has a top ten contract (I think sixth highest in the league). Yeah his contract doesn't go through 2010/2011 like Jefferson and Carter's but he is four years older than Carter and seven years older than Jefferson!

DevinHarriswillstart · 12-19-2007, 11:20 AM

Interesting Hollinger stat here: PER among point guards

11. Jason Kidd - 17.40
12. Devin Harris 17.23

If we can get Kidd without giving up Harris, Howard, or Dirk, I'm for it. Otherwise, no thanks.

alby · 12-19-2007, 01:17 PM

The more I think about it, the more I don't want him here anymore. I like Devin playing 35 minutes a game. Kidd would just halter his growth even more. Trust me, I really want a true point guard that can give you everything on the floor ESPECIALLY leadership, but I have faith in the Devin/Terry combo at starting pg and backup pg respectively (for right now at least).

skylive321 · 12-19-2007, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alby

The more I think about it, the more I don't want him here anymore. I like Devin playing 35 minutes a game. Kidd would just halter his growth even more. Trust me, I really want a true point guard that can give you everything on the floor ESPECIALLY leadership, but I have faith in the Devin/Terry combo at starting pg and backup pg respectively (for right now at least).

u really think the mavs can make a deal for kidd and still be a le to keep devin?

alby · 12-19-2007, 02:01 PM

That's why I don't want Kidd here. Because no way the Nets would give up Kidd (pg) without fetching Devin (pg)

DevinHarriswillstart · 12-19-2007, 02:06 PM

Not worth it...there is no guarantee Kidd brings us a championship.

me770706 · 12-19-2007, 02:25 PM

there's no guarantee ANY player would bring us a championship.

DevinHarriswillstart · 12-19-2007, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by me770706

there's no guarantee ANY player would bring us a championship.

Exactly so why give up years of Harris versus 1-2 more seasons of Kidd. It's a miracle that Kidd is playing the way he is at 35. Harris is a difference maker and still has the potential to be a big time point guard. He is just a step under so I say keep what we got and lets give it another go.

Dr.Zoidberg · 12-19-2007, 04:11 PM

I wouldn´t trade Devin at this point either, as it seems like he turns things around and has a lot of confidence this season. The key is to get him a steady amount of playing time as a starter to run this team. First and foremost don´t start him with Terry, which I think looks like for Harris that Avery doesn´t trust him as a point guard and therefore totally kill his confidence and play making ability.

sike · 12-19-2007, 04:15 PM

i like kidd

Eman · 12-19-2007, 04:17 PM

Joe (NY): Who is most likely to rebound from a bad start; Heat Bulls or Nets??

Marc Stein: Still Bulls. Jersey is crumbling. Which is why I still believe Kidd will be traded before February. There's less and less to hold onto in Jersey.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dave (Naperville): Kidd traded to who?

Marc Stein: Dallas remains the favorite.

This was in his chat on espn.com today. His trade scenario was Devin and a resigned KVH.

Dr.Zoidberg · 12-19-2007, 04:17 PM

I like Kidd too, but for Devin? Very risky to lose another great point guard in the making.

Eman · 12-19-2007, 04:27 PM

More from Stein:

Ray (San Antonio): Does Kidd make Dallas better if they lose Devin Harris? He seems to be an X factor in guarding Parker and Nash. Parker will eat Kiddalive with his speed in the playoffs.

Marc Stein: The Mavs can't just think about San Antonio, for starters. I also strongly dispute your notion that Parker would "eat Kidd alive" and believe Kidd would greatly improve the Mavs' ability to cope with LOTS of other teams.

ty · 12-19-2007, 04:48 PM

The only team we don't cope with is GS.

DelNegro · 12-19-2007, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Exactly so why give up years of Harris versus 1-2 more seasons of Kidd. It's a miracle that Kidd is playing the way he is at 35. Harris is a difference maker and still has the potential to be a big time point guard. He is just a step under so I say keep what we got and lets give it another go.

I'm not saying this is or isn't something the Mavs should do, but the case for giving up several years of Harris for few years of Kidd would be this.

1. You don't think you're good enough to win as is.
2. You think your window is only going to be open for a few more years.
3. You think that Kidd gives you a better chance to win a ring within that window.

I don't know if the Mavs believe any of those things or not. But if they do, well, it's something you've got to think about.

alby · 12-19-2007, 05:03 PM

Stein <3's the Mavs

Dirkenstien · 12-19-2007, 05:21 PM

I'm starting to doubt whether it would be worth it to trade Harris for Kidd also. I mean I think he would do absolute wonders for the mental toughness of this team but for some reason I just get the feeling opposing teams fear a guy like Harris more than they do Kidd.

DelNegro · 12-19-2007, 05:36 PM

Come on. Devin's a nice player, but to say teams fear him more than Jason Kidd is ridiculous. Devin is an individual threat. Jason Kidd makes every player on the floor a threat.

Dirkenstien · 12-19-2007, 05:40 PM

Just to add to my comment I think Harris poses more of a "threat" to other teams because of his speed and explosiveness whereas Kidd is more creates a mental hurdle for other teams because he is a force and has a very strong presence on the court. It's like having to choose to fight either Bruce Lee or Professor X from X-men. You know both can hurt you but they are intimidating in completely different ways.

I think the Mavs would be feared and respected more as a team with Kidd.

Underdog · 12-19-2007, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkenstien

It's like having to choose to fight either Bruce Lee or Professor X from X-men. You know both can hurt you but they are intimidating in completely different ways.

But bullets can stop Bruce Lee...

You should have said "like Wolverine or Professor X"... Man, that would be a sweeeet fight... I want to be Magneto! (or Omega Red - he's pretty boss too...)

But no Sentinels - that's like having David Stern's refs in the game...

/nerd hijack [but only if you deliver all first-born humans to the island of Genosha... Hail the Acolytes!]

me770706 · 12-19-2007, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkenstien

Just to add to my comment I think Harris poses more of a "threat" to other teams because of his speed and explosiveness whereas Kidd is more creates a mental hurdle for other teams because he is a force and has a very strong presence on the court. It's like having to choose to fight either Bruce Lee or Professor X from X-men. You know both can hurt you but they are intimidating in completely different ways.

I think the Mavs would be feared and respected more as a team with Kidd.

the mavs might be more feared by models and other attractive women

Dirkenstien · 12-19-2007, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

But bullets can stop Bruce Lee...

You should have said "like Wolverine or Professor X"... Man, that would be a sweeeet fight... I want to be Magneto! (or Omega Red - he's pretty boss too...)

But no Sentinels - that's like having David Stern's refs in the game...

/nerd hijack [but only if you deliver all first-born humans to the island of Genosha... Hail the Acolytes!]

Heh, yeah well I'm not really an X-men junkie or anything, that's just the guy that came to mind when I was thinking of an example

DelNegro · 12-19-2007, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkenstien

Just to add to my comment I think Harris poses more of a "threat" to other teams because of his speed and explosiveness whereas Kidd is more creates a mental hurdle for other teams because he is a force and has a very strong presence on the court. It's like having to choose to fight either Bruce Lee or Professor X from X-men. You know both can hurt you but they are intimidating in completely different ways.

I think the Mavs would be feared and respected more as a team with Kidd.

First off, +rep for being able to link Jason Kidd, Professor X, Bruce Lee and Devin Harris.

Second, I see your point, but respectfully disagree. If you're an opposing coach you're worried about how whichever one player you put on Devin is going to be able to keep up with him. With Kidd you're worried about how if any one of your five players takes his eye off their man when Kidd has the ball there's a really good chance that's going to turn into an easy bucket. Kidd just gives you so many more things to worry about. That's my opinion anyways.....

alby · 12-19-2007, 06:10 PM

Just like any fan, we overrate our players and underrate other players. With that being said, I still wouldn't give up Devin + other things for Kidd just on the basis of how he wants extra years added to his contract. It's been hell trying to sign free agents being over the cap all these years, and with Finley/Bradley's contract coming off the books--I don't want Kidd's on there.

DelNegro · 12-19-2007, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alby

Just like any fan, we overrate our players and underrate other players. With that being said, I still wouldn't give up Devin + other things for Kidd just on the basis of how he wants extra years added to his contract. It's been hell trying to sign free agents being over the cap all these years, and with Finley/Bradley's contract coming off the books--I don't want Kidd's on there.

That's pretty much where I come out on this as well. If things were as simple as just a Kidd for Devin swap, then I think the Kidd-Mavs would definitely be better than the Devin-Mavs. But it's not that simple. The Mavs would have to give up several more pieces, make the huge financial commitment, etc. They would have to give up a lot and there's a real huge question as to for how many more years Jason Kidd can be the Jason Kidd we think of today. Some players age gracefully, I don't think Kidd is going to be one of them. When he starts to decline I've got that feeling it will be quick and drastic.

fluid.forty.one · 12-19-2007, 08:57 PM

Watching Dirk hit a 3 after kidd hits him with a pass would be so sweet.

Usually Lurkin · 12-19-2007, 09:10 PM

That san antonio chat guy is right. Harris v. Parker right now is key for us.
We'd likely take a step forward against everyone else and a step back against SA, who's team defense compensates for the increase we'd see from Kidd's floormanship.

ddh33 · 12-20-2007, 01:11 AM

Before the season I would have said no way to trading Devin - even for Kidd.

When I saw Avery go away from Devin and start calling Jet his point guard again a few weeks ago, i was for it.

I still want Devin. But I want Devin to be turned loose. If that happens, I'll live with the results. If Harris is always going to be on a leash (and he doesn't look like it right now with Eddie Jones back in the lineup), then I would just as soon go with the old veteran.

Again, I prefer Devin, and I don't see that changing.