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Old 10-14-2008, 12:46 PM   #41
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Oh how I wish Dallas was in Tennessee....
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Old 10-14-2008, 12:51 PM   #42
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George Strait reference?
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Old 10-14-2008, 12:53 PM   #43
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I don't know for sure who it was that sang that song.... just popped into my head.

Alan Jackson...

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Old 10-14-2008, 01:30 PM   #44
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Even if this is Obama's plan and he chooses to see it through it doesn't effect me. I'm not a apart of the wealthy. But even if I were how can I complain? The economy needs to improve and if it doesn't those so called millionaires money won't be worth anything to begin with. So what's the point about crying about money that won't be worth anything? On one hand I can pay more taxes than I already do or I can accept the economy is struggling so bad to the point where my dollar isn't even worth that anymore.
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Old 10-14-2008, 01:34 PM   #45
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It's not about fixing the economy. It's about funding programs to help out people that won't/can't help themselves. Which is fine, to a certain extent. But when you're very literally talking about redistributing wealth, that is not ok.


Overtaxing businesses and the wealthy is not going to fix the economy. It's going to force those businesses to find other means to keep their profit margins, which in a lot of industries means outsourcing to other countries. Sounds great for the economy, right?
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Old 10-14-2008, 01:48 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Murphy3
Oh how I wish Dallas was in Tennessee....

Ahhhhhh....Alan Jackson.

I was thinking that all your exes live in texas...and that's why you hang your hat....nevermind.

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Old 10-14-2008, 02:26 PM   #47
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Old 10-14-2008, 04:25 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Rhylan
Definitely time to stop working so hard. Sos I can git my check!!!!!

Epitome - would you like some money? I wouldn't want life to be unfair. Let me write you a check before I quit my job and take up gardening. Barack's gonna take my money, and/or, McCain is gonna pay for my house, so I'm covered.
Whatever floats your boat man. Personally I'd save it (Americans don't save enough) and you're going to find that living on the public expense isn't a luxurious as you imagine it to be.

The U.S. has some of the lowest marginal tax rates in the world, with some other rich countries top marginal rate being almost twice that of the U.S., We can afford it and we'll need it.
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Old 10-14-2008, 06:08 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Epitome22
Whatever floats your boat man. Personally I'd save it (Americans don't save enough) and you're going to find that living on the public expense isn't a luxurious as you imagine it to be.

The U.S. has some of the lowest marginal tax rates in the world, with some other rich countries top marginal rate being almost twice that of the U.S., We can afford it and we'll need it.
Living on the public expense certainly isn't luxurious.. the harder you tax everybody, the further you're going to drive down the standard of living.

I don't care about what other countries do. You see, they have different governments, different people, different constitutions. We have a certain way of doing things here, according to the Constitution. It's what makes us who we are as a country, and it is what made us the most prosperous nation in the world. We're not Norway, and we're never going to be.

I don't get "we can afford it and we'll need it." Most importantly, it IS possible to REDUCE spending and the size of government. The federal government is trying to do too much. That's how we got where we are. It really got going with FDR, and now we're here, with a huge ass federal government. Secondly, it's not up to you (or anyone) to decide that it's right to confiscate someone else's earnings. Don't you get that? The federal government is not supposed to have first right of refusal over private assets.

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Old 10-15-2008, 12:25 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhylan
Living on the public expense certainly isn't luxurious.. the harder you tax everybody, the further you're going to drive down the standard of living.

I don't care about what other countries do. You see, they have different governments, different people, different constitutions. We have a certain way of doing things here, according to the Constitution. It's what makes us who we are as a country, and it is what made us the most prosperous nation in the world. We're not Norway, and we're never going to be.

I don't get "we can afford it and we'll need it." Most importantly, it IS possible to REDUCE spending and the size of government. The federal government is trying to do too much. That's how we got where we are. It really got going with FDR, and now we're here, with a huge ass federal government. Secondly, it's not up to you (or anyone) to decide that it's right to confiscate someone else's earnings. Don't you get that? The federal government is not supposed to have first right of refusal over private assets.
A magnum opus...Wonderful post.
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Old 10-15-2008, 01:32 AM   #51
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No, we're not Norway. Our GDP is like FIFTY TIMES the size of Norway! Hell, I think Texas alone is about three times the size of Norway. And what is Texas trying to do? Talk to your congressman. I listened to Dan Branch a couple months ago. Good Republican, he is. His stump speech was about how much Texas needs to shake off its no-spending habit and get with the rest of the world economy. He wants roads built to renew our aging infrastructure, which will facilitate commerce. He wants investments in upper-tier colleges, to spur innovation--which we are presently lagging far behind in compared to other parts of the US and particularly other parts of the world. He wants our water supply systems to be addressed, so that we don't face crippling problems ten and twenty years down the road.

Who's gonna pay for that? Rhylan, who wants to keep everything that's "his"? Apparently not. Dude? Apparently not.

Business is a pay-to-play game. You don't just wake up one day and decide that you're going to work really hard, and then make a fortune. If you are a lawyer or a doctor or a financier, maybe. But not if you are a CEO.

We here in Dallas are presently to decide upon a multi-billion-dollar bond project to build a new Parkland Hospital. Whoa, now. Sorry, man, I see no reason to pay for that. I've got my own doctor, my own hospital. I'm not paying for poor people to go to Parkland.

You see where this is going? If you want a first-class economy, the kind of economy that supports the lifestyle you enjoy, you have to pay the freight.

If everybody freeloads on it, the whole thing crumbles. Tragedy of the commons, and all.

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Old 10-15-2008, 01:59 AM   #52
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Jesus was all about spreading the wealth.
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Old 10-15-2008, 02:01 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by rabbitproof
Jesus was all about spreading the wealth.
So was Pacman Jones [make it rain, baby!!!]


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Old 10-15-2008, 06:04 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by rabbitproof
Jesus was all about spreading the wealth.
Of course, Jesus didn't say that it should be done through compulsory taxation by the government.
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Old 10-15-2008, 06:08 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chumdawg
No, we're not Norway. Our GDP is like FIFTY TIMES the size of Norway! Hell, I think Texas alone is about three times the size of Norway. And what is Texas trying to do? Talk to your congressman. I listened to Dan Branch a couple months ago. Good Republican, he is. His stump speech was about how much Texas needs to shake off its no-spending habit and get with the rest of the world economy. He wants roads built to renew our aging infrastructure, which will facilitate commerce. He wants investments in upper-tier colleges, to spur innovation--which we are presently lagging far behind in compared to other parts of the US and particularly other parts of the world. He wants our water supply systems to be addressed, so that we don't face crippling problems ten and twenty years down the road.

Who's gonna pay for that? Rhylan, who wants to keep everything that's "his"? Apparently not. Dude? Apparently not.
First, you're comparing state government to federal government, which isn't apples to apples. Second, you're putting words in Rhylan's mouth. He never said that we should ELIMINATE government and not have ANY spending.

But surely you know this, right? At one time you professed to have some conservative principles (fiscally at least) in you, so surely you know that conservatives don't look anything like the straw man that you constructed.

Right?
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Old 10-15-2008, 06:31 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbitproof
Jesus was all about spreading the wealth.
The "wealth" that Jesus spread had no monetary value.

Well, scratch that, it was and still is priceless.

He also doesn't preclude you from it if you make more than 250K.
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Old 10-15-2008, 06:42 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by u2sarajevo
The "wealth" that Jesus spread had no monetary value.

Well, scratch that, it was and still is priceless.

He also doesn't preclude you from it if you make more than 250K.
Genius, my friend. Genius.
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Old 10-15-2008, 08:35 AM   #58
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Well, I don't believe that it is unfair to restore taxes on the exceedingly rich. I am well off and will never see any benefits of a progressive tax increase. But what about those who are stricken by poverty, should they not have the same opportunities as everyone else? And what bs, not everyone has the same opportunities. Hell, the neo cons want to undo estate tax, which will help keep wealth in the hands of a few. They even want to undo SOCIAL SECURITY,plz. We are facing a deficit and a war, and yet we are giving tax breaks to the rich? The time of right wing conspiracy and lies is over, and hopefully the world will see that come nov 4th.Kenzian economics and government intervention is going to be needed to get us out of the hole that this president's policies of tax breaks and deregulation have left us in. The middle class is under attack.
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Old 10-15-2008, 08:42 AM   #59
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I'm decidedly middle class and I'm just fine.
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Old 10-15-2008, 08:44 AM   #60
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I'm decidedly middle class and I'm just fine.
be careful. Someone out there thinks you are exceedingly rich.
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Old 10-15-2008, 08:49 AM   #61
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be careful. Someone out there thinks you are exceedingly rich.
Yeah, thig. The guy who sat next to you in 4th period pre-calc and dropped acid at lunch lives in a 2 bedroom apartment with 8 other guys, and sold his parents stereo for meth money. He doesn't have the same opportunities as you.
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Old 10-15-2008, 09:50 AM   #62
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Here's an interview with the plumber from the original video:
http://www.familysecuritymatters.org...pub_detail.asp

maybe I'll write his name in on the ballot.
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Old 10-15-2008, 09:53 AM   #63
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It boils down to this: The Republicans favors the very rich and want to cut their taxes. Obama favors the middle class and wants to cut their taxes. Both parties are equally for the "redistribution of wealth."

The Republicans say if the super rich are even richer more jobs will be created.
The Democrats say if the middle class makes more money, they will spend more and businesses will do better that way.
Which theory has more validity? Well right now the super rich have tax breaks and all the jobs are going overseas, the stock market is tanking, and we're heading into a severe recession.

If you're making like $500,000 a year or more, you should strongly consider voting for Senator McCain.
If you're a member of the middle class, you'll have more money in your pocket with Senator Obama.

I'm a capitalist and small business owner (very small). President Bush's policies are causing my customers to be fearful. The middle classes' spending money has been eaten away by rising energy, food, and healthcare costs. That has hurt my business and hundreds of thousands of other businesses big and small.

The deficit is obscene. Foreign policy is madness. The nation is bitterly polarized. People are rightly scared. Our nation's wealth is rapidly flowing to the Far East for manufactured goods and the Middle East for oil. The government is nationalizing huge financial institutions in the greatest Socialist move in US history.

This has to stop. Time for a change.

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Old 10-15-2008, 09:59 AM   #64
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Where'd you get $500,000? I thought the magic number was $250,000.
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Old 10-15-2008, 10:01 AM   #65
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Well right now the super rich have tax breaks and all the jobs are going overseas,
Yeah well if we lower the corporate tax rate 10% like McCain wants to, maybe we can get some more jobs in this country.

And I am so tired of hearing people talk about tax breaks for the successful. They pay WAY more than their fair share, they always have, and they always will.
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Old 10-15-2008, 10:03 AM   #66
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And I am so tired of hearing people talk about tax breaks for the successful. They pay WAY more than their fair share, they always have, and they always will.
Small price to pay for 1% of our population to own 90% of our wealth - there isn't enough taxable income in the remaining 10% of the nation's wealth to keep this machine going...
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Old 10-15-2008, 10:03 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by DirkFTW
Where'd you get $500,000? I thought the magic number was $250,000.
As I understand the proposal, the tax increases are fairly modest but begin at $250,000. I was throwing out $500,000 as a round number. The folks who are clever enough or fortunate enough to be making a half million and up will be paying more. But they're still doing pretty well.
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Old 10-15-2008, 10:06 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Underdog
Small price to pay for 1% of our population to own 90% of our wealth...
The price they pay is that they work harder and smarter than I do. I don't begrudge wealthy people because they've positioned themselves better than I have. If you want something in this country you go out and take it.
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Old 10-15-2008, 10:07 AM   #69
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It boils down to this: The Republicans favor the very rich and want to cut their taxes. Obama favors the middle class and wants to cut their taxes. Both parties are equally for the "redistribution of wealth."
They are not equally for redistribution of wealth. They are not both equally allowing people to keep the money they earned. Obama wants to raise taxes on some people. McCain does not.
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Old 10-15-2008, 10:09 AM   #70
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Yeah well if we lower the corporate tax rate 10% like McCain wants to, maybe we can get some more jobs in this country.

And I am so tired of hearing people talk about tax breaks for the successful. They pay WAY more than their fair share, they always have, and they always will.
The way I see it, if we reward the companies that create jobs here and not reward the companies that send them abroad, more jobs will be created here. That's Senator Obama's more precise proposal.

I think Senator McCain is a good man. I voted for him in 2000. But he keeps proposing to continue and even increase President Bush's policies that got us into this horrific mess.

I'm not a member of either party, but I strongly think we need a new direction and Senator McCain is not giving us that.

As far as paying their fair share, I believe all Senator Obama proposes is to go back to the tax rates we had under President Reagan. Someone please correct me if I am mistaken about that.

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Old 10-15-2008, 10:10 AM   #71
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The price they pay is that they work harder and smarter than I do. I don't begrudge wealthy people because they've positioned themselves better than I have. If you want something in this country you go out and take it.
Go back and read the second part I added - the other 99% of this country's citizens that own 10% of our wealth do not make enough combined taxable income to keep this country afloat...

If the wealth wasn't so disproportionately spread throughout this country, then the rich could pay less taxes... As it stands, the rest of us are too broke to foot the bill on everything our taxes cover...
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Old 10-15-2008, 10:15 AM   #72
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They are not equally for redistribution of wealth. They are not both equally allowing people to keep the money they earned. Obama wants to raise taxes on some people. McCain does not.
Well there is the crippling deficit. That has to be addressed. If not, we're going to permanently become a much poorer nation. More revenue must be raised to meet the levels of spending set by the current administration. You can't squeeze any more from the middle class; normal people are cut to the bone already.

All Obama is proposing is to put the tax code back the way it used to be, when the economy was healthy. The super rich will still be super rich. They'll be ok.
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Old 10-15-2008, 10:19 AM   #73
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yes, the obama plan does raise taxes on what can be described as the higher income households, while mccain's plan reduces taxes on the highest income earners (over $1,500,000).

they both are proposing to reduce taxes on the middle and lower income households, obama proposing more reductions than mccain.

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/numbe...76&DocTypeID=7
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Old 10-15-2008, 10:23 AM   #74
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Well there is the crippling deficit. That has to be addressed. If not, we're going to permanently become a much poorer nation. More revenue must be raised to meet the levels of spending set by the current administration. You can't squeeze any more from the middle class; normal people are cut to the bone already.
cut to the bone. Good grief we are spoiled. You call yourself a (small) business owner, but to many people in this country, you are very rich. What it boils down to is this: I'm ok with raising taxes, as long as the tax is levied on someone else.

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Old 10-15-2008, 10:31 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by minkbarn
Well there is the crippling deficit. That has to be addressed. If not, we're going to permanently become a much poorer nation. More revenue must be raised to meet the levels of spending set by the current administration. You can't squeeze any more from the middle class; normal people are cut to the bone already.
here's a novel idea.....

reduce the spending!
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Old 10-15-2008, 10:33 AM   #76
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here's a novel idea.....

reduce the spending!
Took the words out of my mouth.
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Old 10-15-2008, 10:35 AM   #77
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No, we're not Norway. Our GDP is like FIFTY TIMES the size of Norway! Hell, I think Texas alone is about three times the size of Norway. And what is Texas trying to do? Talk to your congressman. I listened to Dan Branch a couple months ago. Good Republican, he is. His stump speech was about how much Texas needs to shake off its no-spending habit and get with the rest of the world economy. He wants roads built to renew our aging infrastructure, which will facilitate commerce. He wants investments in upper-tier colleges, to spur innovation--which we are presently lagging far behind in compared to other parts of the US and particularly other parts of the world. He wants our water supply systems to be addressed, so that we don't face crippling problems ten and twenty years down the road.

Who's gonna pay for that? Rhylan, who wants to keep everything that's "his"? Apparently not. Dude? Apparently not.

Business is a pay-to-play game. You don't just wake up one day and decide that you're going to work really hard, and then make a fortune. If you are a lawyer or a doctor or a financier, maybe. But not if you are a CEO.

We here in Dallas are presently to decide upon a multi-billion-dollar bond project to build a new Parkland Hospital. Whoa, now. Sorry, man, I see no reason to pay for that. I've got my own doctor, my own hospital. I'm not paying for poor people to go to Parkland.

You see where this is going? If you want a first-class economy, the kind of economy that supports the lifestyle you enjoy, you have to pay the freight.

If everybody freeloads on it, the whole thing crumbles. Tragedy of the commons, and all.
Dude, this is just like trying to argue basketball with you. You've shifted the argument. What we're talking about here is Federal taxing & spending. Not state & local. The more local a government, the more you can talk about providing services like that, and I might listen.

I am a federalist, you see.

You're never going to hear me argue against transportation infrastructure at any level. I think that's one of the best ROIs that tax money can offer.

Hospitals, I'm on the fence. I'd prefer private organizations fund hospitals. There's a reason that I live in Denton county (and others Collin) rather than Tarrant & Dallas, and part of that is high hospital district taxes. I don't trust a governmental entity to fund & manage a hospital any more than I trust them to do anything else.

Education, well, I think we need some market economics at play to drive down costs at universities, because they have no incentive to do so otherwise. I went to A&M for far less than my wife went to TCU, so I can see the value of state funding at state schools, clearly, but I also think they need some pressure to keep costs down. The citizens aren't just a cash register. "Innovation" comes from minds, whether they're in a marble building or a brick building or a garage... unless you're talking about pharmaceuticals or something like that, money doesn't have to play a factor. ESPECIALLY public money.

You can't tell me that you wanna take some of my money to fund "innovation" when I'd rather pay Steve Jobs & friends, get a product out of the deal, and all Steve needed was his brain, a garage and the Woz to get started.

But to pretend that we need confiscatory income tax policies at the federal level to support the success of individual businesses is illogical and contradicts history.

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Old 10-15-2008, 10:43 AM   #78
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Here's a question... how many of you think that Obama's "tax cut for 95% of Americans" with either...

A - be a free handout for the 40% of that 95% who currently pay nothing, and a modest cut for the remaining 45% (this is what some conservatives are trying to say right now)

or

B - be a modest tax cut for the 45% of the 95% who DO pay something, and that's it? That the "95%" jargon just means that 95% of americans make less than $250k as a family and fall under that criteria. And clearly, that Obama says it that way to make it sound better, because 95% is far better than 45%.

I actually think that it's B.. but if anybody can verifty through some written non-Republican source that it's A, I'm going to explode in a ball of rage.
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Old 10-15-2008, 11:05 AM   #79
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I have a slightly different question?

How many think that unemployment goes up significantly when those that make more than 250K are taxed more, so they stop investing as much in business?
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Old 10-15-2008, 11:11 AM   #80
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I have a slightly different question?

How many think that unemployment goes up significantly when those that make more than 250K are taxed more, so they stop investing as much in business?

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