General Election GDT 11/04/2008

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

If the 10 worst teams in the NBA were all Eastern Conference teams, wouldn't you conclude that the eastern conference sucks .

What if the 5 best teams are also in the Eastern Conference?

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

My research shows that seven of the ten wealthiest cities in the US are also run by Democrat mayors. Maybe mayors are just more likely to be Democrat?

If you do more research, you'll probably find that economic discrepancy is associated with Democrats - and again (I'd guess) with no solution in sight.

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by Underdog

What if the 5 best teams are also in the Eastern Conference?

I'd say that the eastern conference is associated with ranking higher than normal and with ranking lower than normal, but not with ranking in the middle.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

If you do more research, you'll probably find that economic discrepancy is associated with Democrats - and again (I'd guess) with no solution in sight.

So, it's the Democratic mayor of Detroit's fault that US automakers produce a shoddy product?

My point being that there are several aspects beyond just "who's in charge" that factor into poverty...

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

I'd say that the eastern conference is associated with ranking higher than normal and with ranking lower than normal, but not with ranking in the middle.

That's a fair assessment - but can you tell me who's going to win the Championship based on that data? (or in this instance, who's going to get the #1 lotto pick?)

Because that's the kind of bold conclusion this article we're discussing makes...

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by Underdog

That's a fair assessment - but can you tell me who's going to win the Championship based on that data? (or in this instance, who's going to get the #1 lotto pick?)

Because that's the kind of bold conclusions this article we're discussing makes...

the article 92b linked? That's more like a list of links than article (maybe I'm looking at the wrong thing).
And it's more like predicting that if you elect Isaiah Thomas as commissioner, then things will go bad, because his Eastern-conference extremism is not good for the NBA. At that article, they use more than the list of cities as argument.

The list of cities, though, makes it's own statement. Do you not wonder why those cities would keep choosing Dem leaders?

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

The list of cities, though, makes it's own statement. Do you not wonder why those cities would keep choosing Dem leaders?

You're right...

A better basketball metaphor would be: "TRADE DIRK!!! Dallas hasn't won a Championship since he's been here, so it must be HIS fault (why does Cuban keep sticking with him???)"

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by Underdog

You're right...

A better basketball metaphor would be: "TRADE DIRK!!! Dallas hasn't won a Championship since he's been here, so it must be HIS fault (why does Cuban keep sticking with him???)"

no, your analogy would be "TRADE DIRK!! We've been at the bottom of the league since he's been here, so obviously we need to try a different star (why does Cuban keep sticking with him???)" which is obviously ill-formed.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

no, your analogy would be "TRADE DIRK!! We've been at the bottom of the league since he's been here, so obviously we need to try a different star (why does Cuban keep sticking with him???)" which is obviously ill-formed.

Sure - use that one if you want...

But the point is that it's NOT Dirk's fault - trading for another star isn't going to make up for a lack of a starting 2-guard, no backup PG and no low-post presence...

Trade out a Democrat for a Republican and you're still going to have all the same problems that lie beyond the mayor's control...

[mcsluggo]

Alex's answer was the correct one.

[Windmill360]

For a moment I thought this was the Mavs game day thread.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Windmill360°

For a moment I thought this was the Mavs game day thread.

My aim is to confuse!

[fluid.forty.one]

Celtics
Cavs
76ers
Pistons
Magic

... wait

wut

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Sure - use that one if you want...

But the point is that it's NOT Dirk's fault - trading for another star isn't going to make up for a lack of a starting 2-guard, no backup PG and no low-post presence...

It'll make more sense if we frame it more accurately:
"We've been at the bottom of the league with Mike Finley as our #1 guy! Get us a new #1 guy. "
Of course there are always lots of factors, but no team with Mike Finley as their #1 guy is going to get far out of the cellar. It's not Mike Finley's fault - he just doesn't have the tools. It's probably more correct to say it's the fault of whoever would keep building a team with Mike Finley as the #1 guy. In the end, in the late 90's, it didn't really matter who's fault it was, the undeniable fact was that the Mavs needed a new #1 guy.

Trade out a Democrat for a Republican and you're still going to have all the same problems that lie beyond the mayor's control...

You cannot say that unless you've actually tried something other than Democrat, and for those cities on the list they haven't (at least haven't for a long, long time).

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by mcsluggo

Alex's answer was the correct one.

the table of cities and mayors is not used as a causal argument.

At that national black republican association website, they make claims like this:

Click here for a Boston Globe investigation with an article and video produced by Scott LaPierre about poor blacks condemning Obama for funding dilapidated slum projects in Chicago with tax payers’ money. Obama's friends and associates profited from the subsidies even as many of Obama's constituents suffered. Tenants lost their homes; surrounding neighborhoods were blighted.

which is neither causal nor correlational.

And the only causal argument I see at that website is one about democrats and the housing mess,

Democrats created the mortgage crisis by forcing banks to give loans to people who couldn't afford them. Click here to view a video that shows the Democrats covering up the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac scam that was at the heart of our economic crisis. Franklin Raines, a financial advisor to Obama, walked off from Fannie Mae with a $22 million dollar severance package.

which (right or wrong) isn't really correlational, either.

So unless I'm missing something, then the assumption that someone making a correlational argument must also be making a causal argument is the most egregious correlation/causation confusion in the discussion.

[alexamenos]

Originally Posted by mcsluggo

Alex's answer was the correct one.

I'm glad to know that mcsluggo agrees with my contention that people who say "literally" when they plainly mean "figuratively" should be sentenced to a harsh and painful death.

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by alexamenos

I'm glad to know that mcsluggo agrees with my contention that people who say "literally" when they plainly mean "figuratively" should be sentenced to a harsh and painful death.

that was figuratively a strange thing to link to.
no, wait. literally a strange thing.

[alexamenos]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

that was figuratively a strange thing to link to.
no, wait. literally a strange thing.

obviously that was the wrong link....i meant to direct folks here --> link.

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by alexamenos

obviously that was the wrong link....i meant to direct folks here --> link.

that was literally obvious. and the website name is obviously literal.