Plan B if D Wade and Lebron go elsewhere

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by bobatundi

I could see us getting Johnson without Damp...something like Butler & Terry for Johnson & Pachulia. Zaza then becomes our backup C, playing 10 a game behind Haywood, with Dirk sometimes playing the 5 while Marion mans the 4 against smaller lineups.

Atlanta does this because (a) Johnson is leaving anyway, and Butler is a nice consolation prize, and (b) dumping Pachulia saves them a lot of money. We can throw in cash and picks to sweeten the pot.

this could be interesting

[mavs777]

Originally Posted by Kidd Karma

....3 first rounders and cash, should seal it. Toronto's working on the wrong side of leverage. Bosh can walk to NY.....then again Houston comes back with Hill....and cash...

sigh i wouldn't mind giving away a first rounder, but getting rid of a bunch of first rounders for the future plus Calderon is a bad defender

[Robillion]

I chose Iggy and AJefferson because Im selfish and want both of them. If not two players like that taking care of two positional needs (better than Butler/Haywood can) then Joe Johnson is my #1 target.

[sike]

uh...is Jefferson available? If so, that guy is a low post beast.

[darkwitzki]

IMO, we need two trades, a capable SG (JJohnson, Iggy, Salmons) and a low post presence (Jefferson, Kaman, Bosh, Boozer). Anyone could think of ways is a genius.

[sike]

Is Al Jefferson available? If so....yes please.

[dalmations202]

Plan Q if the rest doesn't work.
Trade Damp to Philly for Brand and the #2.
Take Turner with the #2. (Wall is the backup option)

Resign Damp after he is cut. Resign Haywood.

Brand injuries become much less a problem when he is a 6th man, but you now have an inside post up player.

Haywood, Damp
Dirk, Brand
Marion, Turner
Butler, Turner, Stevenson
Kidd, Roddy, JET

Najera and JJB on the bench or cheering from the front row.

Very athletic and deep and without any "major" player having to come here.
Turner very well could be starting SG very quickly with Butler coming in as the first swing off the bench. JET becomes a situational jump shooting guard (zone buster - spot up guy for the Brand inside out game).

[sike]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

Plan Q if the rest doesn't work.
Trade Damp to Philly for Brand and the #2.
Take Turner with the #2. (Wall is the backup option)

Resign Damp after he is cut. Resign Haywood.

Brand injuries become much less a problem when he is a 6th man, but you now have an inside post up player.

Haywood, Damp
Dirk, Brand
Marion, Turner
Butler, Turner, Stevenson
Kidd, Roddy, JET

Najera and JJB on the bench or cheering from the front row.

Very athletic and deep and without any "major" player having to come here.
Turner very well could be starting SG very quickly with Butler coming in as the first swing off the bench. JET becomes a situational jump shooting guard (zone buster - spot up guy for the Brand inside out game).

I'm hoping for better than this...the team needs a clear second stud...and MUST address that this off season.

[mavs777]

Minnessotta will not trade there number 2 pick, and yes Jefferson is available because him and love don't work will on the court. They need a wing and a bit of cap relief, Butler for Jefferson I think could work straight up as his deal is expiring also his deal is a couple of million less and they are looking for a wing, and possibly give up a first round pick but in a few years not next year or year after that

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

Plan Q if the rest doesn't work.
Trade Damp to Philly for Brand and the #2.
Take Turner with the #2. (Wall is the backup option)

Resign Damp after he is cut. Resign Haywood.

Brand injuries become much less a problem when he is a 6th man, but you now have an inside post up player.

Haywood, Damp
Dirk, Brand
Marion, Turner
Butler, Turner, Stevenson
Kidd, Roddy, JET

Najera and JJB on the bench or cheering from the front row.

Very athletic and deep and without any "major" player having to come here.
Turner very well could be starting SG very quickly with Butler coming in as the first swing off the bench. JET becomes a situational jump shooting guard (zone buster - spot up guy for the Brand inside out game).

I wouldn't even speak the words "Elton Brand" without automatically including Iguodala's name in the same sentence...

(and even then, "Samuel Dalembert" rolls off the tongue a lot prettier...)

[sike]

Originally Posted by mavs777

Minnessotta will not trade there number 2 pick, and yes Jefferson is available because him and love don't work will on the court. They need a wing and a bit of cap relief, Butler for Jefferson I think could work straight up as his deal is expiring also his deal is a couple of million less and they are looking for a wing, and possibly give up a first round pick but in a few years not next year or year after that

that would make me so Happy. A legit post scoring stud would be so sweet.

[Kidd Karma]

Beginning to think Jefferson might be that number 2 we need, with his low post threat, 5 feet and in is automatic to him, then you can stagger both Dirk and Jefferson's minutes, to at least give us an offensive threat on the floor at all times.....but of course RC will probably screw that up somehow.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by sike

that would make me so Happy. A legit post scoring stud would be so sweet.

the more i think about this the more intriguing it seems. i'm really into "buy low" players and Al Jefferson was basically untouchable not too long ago. not sure how he and Dirk work defensively so you'd have to have someone like Haywood to rotate in. I wonder if Carlisle could keep everybody happy with playing time etc... doesn't seem to be his strength, to say the least. but when Dirk went out and Jefferson slid to PF we would have a legit go to scorer. we trade Damp for a 2 and keep Roddy. not a bad Plan B. it would take a little more than just Caron to get Jefferson probably as well.

[sike]

Originally Posted by mac222b

not a bad Plan B. it would take a little more than just Caron to get Jefferson probably as well.

I agree about needing more than Caron, but its an intriguing thought at least...

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by sike

I agree about needing more than Caron, but its an intriguing thought at least...

You could get Al Jefferson with the DUST Chip straight-up.

(if the T-Wolves were looking SOLELY for financial relief...)

[sike]

Originally Posted by Underdog

You could get Al Jefferson with the DUST Chip straight-up.

(if the T-Wolves were looking SOLELY for financial relief...)

If Wade and James are no gos (which is likely) and Jefferson is available...I'd go after him hard.

If we can't get a super star that could make Dirk the #2 option, we need at least to get Dirk a legit low post scoring second option.

[grndmstr_c]

I might be in the minority on this, but Jefferson's not all that high on my list. A few reasons:

1) he doesn't provide any kind of a defensive presence at center
2) his scoring efficiency is pretty pedestrian for a guy who shoots as much as he does
3) his numbers have been trending downward the last few years rather than evidencing growth.

Certainly you could argue that his exile to Minnesota has something to do with the 2nd and 3rd points above, and if that's the case and Minnesota is making him available for pennies (dimes?) on the dollar, then he would definitely be a smart buy. Still, I'd want to explore all my options for acquiring JJ and/or Iggy (in addition to the top names) before I looked his way, for example.

[sike]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Certainly you could argue that his exile to Minnesota has something to do with the 2nd and 3rd points above, and if that's the case and Minnesota is making him available for pennies (dimes?) on the dollar, then he would definitely be a smart buy. Still, I'd want to explore all my options for acquiring JJ and/or Iggy (in addition to the top names) before I looked his way, for example.

I agree that he hasn't had the opportunity or supporting cast to really shine...I imagine that if you have any soul or pride I'm pretty sure that Minny would suck it right out of ya.

Without any further thought or study, I would go for Jefferson over JJ.

[Dirkadirkastan]

Weren't the Timberwolves worse when Jefferson was on the floor? That's hard to do.

[sike]

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

Weren't the Timberwolves worse when Jefferson was on the floor? That's hard to do.

Does that mean you think he isn't clearly the best player on that team?

[Thespiralgoeson]

I just don't have any interest in getting guys who play the same position as Dirk. For me, there's JJ, then there's Iggy, then there's everyone else.

[sike]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

I just don't have any interest in getting guys who play the same position as Dirk. For me, there's JJ, then there's Iggy, then there's everyone else.

Jefferson is a Post Player. He and Dirk would rarely occupy the same spots on the floor.

The only question is, "Can Jefferson play post defense?"

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

I just don't have any interest in getting guys who play the same position as Dirk. For me, there's JJ, then there's Iggy, then there's everyone else.

What? He's a center. Well, but he damn sure would be one here. Joe Johnson or Iggy added to this team without keeping Butler isn't making us real contenders. Idk why Minnesota would let a stud like Jefferson go, but he > anyone else not Wade or Lebron. Especially > Bosh who I am quickly becoming hateful towards. In fact he shouldn't even be on this list because he's a doucher... and doesn't wanna play here.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by clutch#41

ban me for expressing my opinion???? lmao..jus bc dirk will never get us anywhere and i want him traded?? lol truth hurts!

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Joe Johnson or Iggy added to this team without keeping Butler isn't making us real contenders.

While I think both JJ and Iggy are better players than Butler, and would be better fits on the team as well, I can agree with the sentiment that if Caron is the price of either of those two you've still got more work to do. Just to clarify, though, are you also suggesting that a Caron for Jefferson swap would vault the Mavs into (co-)favorite status?

[mavs777]

Originally Posted by Underdog

You could get Al Jefferson with the DUST Chip straight-up.

(if the T-Wolves were looking SOLELY for financial relief...)

Which I highly doubt they are, they are trying to rebuild and get a team that will compete in 2 years

[mavs777]

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

Weren't the Timberwolves worse when Jefferson was on the floor? That's hard to do.

Thats cause him and Love don't complement each other, Hollins and Love are totally different players and lets your spacing be so much better

[mavs777]

Originally Posted by sike

Does that mean you think he isn't clearly the best player on that team?

Love is better but he is strictly a 4

[mavs777]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

What? He's a center. Well, but he damn sure would be one here. Joe Johnson or Iggy added to this team without keeping Butler isn't making us real contenders. Idk why Minnesota would let a stud like Jefferson go, but he > anyone else not Wade or Lebron. Especially > Bosh who I am quickly becoming hateful towards. In fact he shouldn't even be on this list because he's a doucher... and doesn't wanna play here.

[dalger]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

While I think both JJ and Iggy are better players than Butler, and would be better fits on the team as well, I can agree with the sentiment that if Caron is the price of either of those two you've still got more work to do.

No question about it. Iguodala or Johnson aren't all that much better than Butler. What concerns me about Joe Johnson is that he clearly tends to be worse in the playoffs than during the regular season. He only shot 38.7%, 41.7% and 40.9% from the field in the last three postseasons. I know that field goal percentage isn't everything, but that almost sounds like a Terry-esque pattern and this very pattern is one of the main reasons why we experienced yet another first-round exit. With the exception of Dirk, how many times have we seen players like Jet or Josh or Damp and now Marion or Kidd underachieve during the playoffs? One could argue that Johnson would benefit from playing next to Dirk, however, his numbers hardly indicate that he is a true superstar. Shooting 38.7% isn't even worthy of a second banana.

Sacrificing Butler for LeBron or Wade would be a no-brainer. If we had to do the same in order to get Iggy or Johnson, then we'd better have another impact player on his way to Big D.

[CrazyBoy]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

What? He's a center. Well, but he damn sure would be one here. Joe Johnson or Iggy added to this team without keeping Butler isn't making us real contenders. Idk why Minnesota would let a stud like Jefferson go, but he > anyone else not Wade or Lebron. Especially > Bosh who I am quickly becoming hateful towards. In fact he shouldn't even be on this list because he's a doucher... and doesn't wanna play here.

wtf? hes a power forward and will always be one.
dont just repeat everything espn said.
he is _no_ legit center... he cant defend lowpost. and thats what centers do.

lets compare him to dirk at this age... dirk made 10 rebounds - jefferson 9, dirk made 1,4 blocks - jefferson 1.3
is dirk/jefferson a center? hell no
can dirk/jefferson defend low post? hell no

i give you the credit that he would be our center, like brand would sub in there. but we still need a legit center like haywood to do the most parts. jefferson has some nice athleticism and is very versatile. but that doesnt make him a perfect center

PS: someone mentioned it already - the wolves actually played better when jefferson was on the bench

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

While I think both JJ and Iggy are better players than Butler, and would be better fits on the team as well, I can agree with the sentiment that if Caron is the price of either of those two you've still got more work to do. Just to clarify, though, are you also suggesting that a Caron for Jefferson swap would vault the Mavs into (co-)favorite status?

No Jefferson would not make us any sort of favorite imo. I also like Kaman. But We're gonna need major help. Lebron or Wade kind of help. Someone to make Dirk the #2 option or 1)b. Someone that can get him open looks but also take over the game.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by CrazyBoy

wtf? hes a power forward and will always be one.
dont just repeat everything espn said.
he is _no_ legit center... he cant defend lowpost. and thats what centers do.

lets compare him to dirk at this age... dirk made 10 rebounds - jefferson 9, dirk made 1,4 blocks - jefferson 1.3
is dirk/jefferson a center? hell no
can dirk/jefferson defend low post? hell no

i give you the credit that he would be our center, like brand would sub in there. but we still need a legit center like haywood to do the most parts. jefferson has some nice athleticism and is very versatile. but that doesnt make him a perfect center

PS: someone mentioned it already - the wolves actually played better when jefferson was on the bench

Why are you comparing him to Dirk? That was mistake number 1, that comparison is stupid. Compare him to Damp or Haywood, or both put together. He has low post skills that we have never had. Even in a down year last year he is a huge upgrade at anything we have had on the blocks.

Repeat everything ESPN said? Idk wtf you are talking about.

You give me the credit that he would be center here, like Brand would sub in. What does that mean? Brand also plays Center? So what? You're not gonna ever have a lock down center defensively. Even D Howard hasn't locked down the paint in this series vs Boston. I would rather make the other center work trying to stop Jefferson than have Damp on the floor who can't score or create anything offensively and doesn't exactly shut things down defensively.

P.S. The Wolves actually played better with their best player (by far) off the floor. Ok. Yeah, well if I recall correctly the only time the Mavs beat the CAVS was when Dirk wasn't playing. See how ridiculous that sounds.

[mavs777]

Jefferson is a fine 5 if backed up by a 5 with size and strength like haywood, jefferson would be a very good piece to the puzzle but even with him we are still 1 piece away from being a legit title contender (a legit 2 guard) but it doesn't have to be a star at the 2 I'd settle for just a knock down 3 point shooter that can really defend like a raja bell type

[Mavericks Rockets Fan]

As much as I would love to have Jefferson, why do the T-Wolves trade him? He is young and is their best player.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Why are you comparing him to Dirk? That was mistake number 1, that comparison is stupid. Compare him to Damp or Haywood, or both put together. He has low post skills that we have never had. Even in a down year last year he is a huge upgrade at anything we have had on the blocks.

Repeat everything ESPN said? Idk wtf you are talking about.

You give me the credit that he would be center here, like Brand would sub in. What does that mean? Brand also plays Center? So what? You're not gonna ever have a lock down center defensively. Even D Howard hasn't locked down the paint in this series vs Boston. I would rather make the other center work trying to stop Jefferson than have Damp on the floor who can't score or create anything offensively and doesn't exactly shut things down defensively.

P.S. The Wolves actually played better with their best player (by far) off the floor. Ok. Yeah, well if I recall correctly the only time the Mavs beat the CAVS was when Dirk wasn't playing. See how ridiculous that sounds.

He has low-post skills, but the guy is NOT a "career center" as you described him earlier. You can argue whether or not he would be a good option at center here, but that is not his natural position. Call me old-fashioned, but I just can't stand undersized centers, or rather, forwards playing out of position. And that's the reason I'm just not interested in Jefferson, Bosh, Amare, Boozer or anyone else who's not a high-scoring 2/3. They will get you killed defensively.

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

No Jefferson would not make us any sort of favorite imo. I also like Kaman. But We're gonna need major help. Lebron or Wade kind of help. Someone to make Dirk the #2 option or 1)b. Someone that can get him open looks but also take over the game.

True, someone has to get the ball to Jefferson.

[Mavericks Rockets Fan]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

He has low-post skills, but the guy is NOT a "career center" as you described him earlier. You can argue whether or not he would be a good option at center here, but that is not his natural position. Call me old-fashioned, but I just can't stand undersized centers, or rather, forwards playing out of position. And that's the reason I'm just not interested in Jefferson, Bosh, Amare, Boozer or anyone else who's not a high-scoring 2/3. They will get you killed defensively.

I second this. This is the reason I why didn't think getting a Bosh, Amare, or Boozer was a good idea. LeBron or Wade would be ideal (although I don't see it happening). But I would be happy with Iguodala, Ellis, or JJ.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

He has low-post skills, but the guy is NOT a "career center" as you described him earlier. You can argue whether or not he would be a good option at center here, but that is not his natural position. Call me old-fashioned, but I just can't stand undersized centers, or rather, forwards playing out of position. And that's the reason I'm just not interested in Jefferson, Bosh, Amare, Boozer or anyone else who's not a high-scoring 2/3. They will get you killed defensively.

I never said he was a "career center" but obviously his best success has come while playing Center. The wolves are struggling to find an identity and I don't think it's fair and accurate to say well AL played some at the PF so he's not a center. There is absolutely ZERO question that he would play his minutes as a center here. He would probably get a few minutes at PF too along the way but it's because he can score the ball and create his own shots unlike any of the other big men we have, not because he is too undersized.

I think if any center came here, Jefferson or Kaman are the type that would fit well along with Dirk. Someone that can create and draw attention or a double in the post because Dirk doesn't thrive there. He doesn't inhabit the same area on th floor as Dirk, so I would think that he would fit well here. We have tried Bradley, Damp, Raef, so called defensive stoppers etc and some other stuff but so far no one has gotten it done down low offensively.

[mavs777]

Originally Posted by Mavericks Rockets Fan

As much as I would love to have Jefferson, why do the T-Wolves trade him? He is young and is their best player.

Love is the better all around player than Jefferson, and Jefferson and Love like to work at the same spots and don't work together