Kevin Martin

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by FINtastic

I know it's fun to hate on Carlisle for playing JJB, but whose minutes do you think JJB is going to eat into? We've already got a logjam at SF, and I'm darn near positive that he's not going to take Kidd's or Terry's minutes below 30 minutes a game. So if you trade for Martin, I'm not sure who JJB will be taking minutes from. If you give Martin, Kidd, and Terry roughly 30 minutes a piece at the two guard spots, that leaves maybe 6 minutes max for JJB. That's not really a rotation player.

He'll take a slice of Kidd's, Terry's, Martin's, Marion's, and Butler's minutes.

Perhaps you've forgotten that RC often runs a Kidd-JJB-Terry lineup.

No reason we wouldn't still see that, or a new variation involving Kidd-JJB-Martin.

I guarantee you'd at times see JJB paired on the court with two of Jet, Kidd, and Martin.

[Rhylan]

Kevin Martin has never played on a team that was worth a crap. This, combined with absolutely nothing on the defensive end of the floor - and I mean nothing - keeps me from getting too excited about Martin.

For a team that needs somebody desperately to fill the basket, Martin has a lot of value. But Dallas isn't in that position. Could they use him? Absolutely. But under the right circumstances.

He's a guy shooting 44% on a 10-15 team. The one thing he does better than anyone in Dallas right now is get to the FT line.

But it sure makes me nervous. This guy is right there with Shareef Abdur Rahim and Mitch Richmond in terms of good stats on bad teams.

[Dirkgreatness]

Huge gamble for the mavs, considering how injury prone both Martin and Chandler are.

[fluid.forty.one]

Originally Posted by Dirkgreatness

Huge gamble for the mavs, considering how injury prone both Martin and Chandler are.

As Roddy sits out the first 25 games with a foot injury...

[MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs]

Rockets fans LOL at the idea

http://bbs.clutchcity.net/showthread...6&page=1&pp=20

I'm thinking this will be another trade rumor that never actually happens.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by CadBane

He'll take a slice of Kidd's, Terry's, Martin's, Marion's, and Butler's minutes.

Perhaps you've forgotten that RC often runs a Kidd-JJB-Terry lineup.

No reason we wouldn't still see that, or a new variation involving Kidd-JJB-Martin.

I guarantee you'd at times see JJB paired on the court with two of Jet, Kidd, and Martin.

Why would Carlisle run Kidd-Barea-Martin or Kidd-Barea-Terry when he could run Kidd-Martin-Terry as a 3-guard lineup?

The only reason Barea is part of that rotation is because he gets into the paint, something that Martin does a lot better...

[FINtastic]

Originally Posted by CadBane

He'll take a slice of Kidd's, Terry's, Martin's, Marion's, and Butler's minutes.

Perhaps you've forgotten that RC often runs a Kidd-JJB-Terry lineup.

No reason we wouldn't still see that, or a new variation involving Kidd-JJB-Martin.

I guarantee you'd at times see JJB paired on the court with two of Jet, Kidd, and Martin.

Well if he really wants to go small ball, he'll still be able to go with Kidd, Terry, and Martin to get plenty of scoring punch. To be honest, I feel like part of the reason JJB gets in the game for a three guard lineup is that Carlisle wants a guard that can actually get into the lane. With Martin on board, that wouldn't really be a problem.

I really don't see JJB eating into Marion's and Butler's minutes as they are already fairly low at this point. It seems like paranoia speaking if you think he's going to cut into them even more just so he can get JJB on the court.

[Underdog]

^^haha, beat ya, Fin!

[FINtastic]

Originally Posted by Underdog

^^haha, beat ya, Fin!

Stealing my thunder, are you? We'll see about that...

[92bDad]

Is there any way that JJB could be packaged with Haywood to land Martin...then we wouldn't have the endless JJB love/hate fest...he'd be gone and the Mavs would be better.

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by FINtastic

Well if he really wants to go small ball, he'll still be able to go with Kidd, Terry, and Martin to get plenty of scoring punch. To be honest, I feel like part of the reason JJB gets in the game for a three guard lineup is that Carlisle wants a guard that can actually get into the lane. With Martin on board, that wouldn't really be a problem.

I really don't see JJB eating into Marion's and Butler's minutes as they are already fairly low at this point. It seems like paranoia speaking if you think he's going to cut into them even more just so he can get JJB on the court.

I agree with what you're saying in theory....but RC doesn't employ rational thought when it comes to JJB. Last year people kept harping "Oh, when Marion is healthy, JJB won't be closing games ahead of him." Yet he continued to. It's pointless speculation ATM. However, if the trade DOES go down, I'd be more than happy to make a wager with you that JJB plays over 10 mpg.

[young_gunner]

Can kevin martin play some pg?
Just curious... If he can, would haywood+barrea be plausible?..

[Dirkgreatness]

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

As Roddy sits out the first 25 games with a foot injury...

I'm talking about the original trade rumor, with Stevenson.. Plus I would be much more concerned about Chandler going down.

[BGMaverick9]

Unfortunately, based on today being a gameday...the article will have to sit until tomorrow for MMB.

But I do have a lot of information on this situation from a source familiar to Houston and Dallas' situation. Scouts, masking and desperation....

[dalger]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

Haywood/Beaubois
for
Kevin Martin

Would you do it?

Not sure about it. All things considered, there's a reason the Rockets could be willing to trade away their best scorer--and it's probably not just the lack of a capable center after Yao's latest injury. Martin is a great and effective scorer, but pretty much nothing else. He's had a lot of injuries in the past and has yet to prove that he can stay healthy over the course of a season. The thing that's still good about Haywood is that he's a great insurance policy considering TC's injury history and another 7-footer to throw at the Lakers with Bynum/Gasol/Odom.

It would be much easier to think about such a deal if we knew what Roddy could or couldn't bring to the table. It's too bad that it's taking him such a long time to recover from that broken foot.

Haywood/Stevenson for Martin is something I would perhaps be willing to do. Still wouldn't like to give away a 7-footer, but the upside is clearly there. Not to mention that Haywood's no longer playing like the guy that we signed to a 5-year contract.

By the way, when your team is 20-5, it's getting really difficult to be supportive of (realistic) trade scenarios...

[Rick41]

Is there any authenticity for/on how this idea/rumor/speculation even started, other than Fish?

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by Rhylan

Kevin Martin has never played on a team that was worth a crap. This, combined with absolutely nothing on the defensive end of the floor - and I mean nothing - keeps me from getting too excited about Martin.

For a team that needs somebody desperately to fill the basket, Martin has a lot of value. But Dallas isn't in that position. Could they use him? Absolutely. But under the right circumstances.

He's a guy shooting 44% on a 10-15 team. The one thing he does better than anyone in Dallas right now is get to the FT line.

But it sure makes me nervous. This guy is right there with Shareef Abdur Rahim and Mitch Richmond in terms of good stats on bad teams.

I concur with some of your concerns regarding Martin. But stating that we don't desperately need an offensive player of his caliber is simply not true. The Mavs are currently ranked 16th in the NBA in PPG (not pace adjusted). Our offense is middle of the pack.

We still don't have a second option, and when the playoffs comes, teams are going to double Dirk hard and rely on Kidd, Terry and Butler to beat them with jumpshots. And as we've seen, that aint gonna happen.

I would without a moment's hesitation do Martin for DeShawn (even though he's my 2nd favorite player on the team)/Wood. Roddy would require some thought.

[Dirkgreatness]

Plus, Martin is proven to be as brittle as jho. He has not played more than 61 games since the 06-07 season. We don't exactly know how injury prone roddy is, his current injury is kinda of a freak accident.

[grndmstr_c]

The Haywood/Stevenson rumor is laughable from Houston's perspective, and Ingram is a douche. That said, I don't at all doubt that the Mavs have a lot of interest in Martin, and I'm sure Houston has had and will continue to have internal discussions about Haywood. The situation bears watching, but I'd be happier to see Booby get healthy and pick up where he left off in the playoffs than I would be to see him get traded away for Martin.

[jthig32]

I can't stop laughing at the idea that someone seriously called Kevin Martin a larger Jason Terry.

Kevin Martin is SECOND IN THE NBA in free throws made per game.

[rabbitproof]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Unfortunately, based on today being a gameday...the article will have to sit until tomorrow for MMB.

But I do have a lot of information on this situation from a source familiar to Houston and Dallas' situation. Scouts, masking and desperation....

BOOOOOOO.. release the Krakken!!

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Rhylan

Kevin Martin has never played on a team that was worth a crap. This, combined with absolutely nothing on the defensive end of the floor - and I mean nothing - keeps me from getting too excited about Martin.

For a team that needs somebody desperately to fill the basket, Martin has a lot of value. But Dallas isn't in that position. Could they use him? Absolutely. But under the right circumstances.

He's a guy shooting 44% on a 10-15 team. The one thing he does better than anyone in Dallas right now is get to the FT line.

But it sure makes me nervous. This guy is right there with Shareef Abdur Rahim and Mitch Richmond in terms of good stats on bad teams.

To me though, the issue of a good scorer on a bad team usually has to do with efficiency and usage. People like Rahim could dominate the ball and score at a poor pace and no one cared because his teams sucked.

I don't really view Martin in the same light because he's such an efficient scorer and a good shooter. I definitely don't see him having an issue fitting into an offense.

Yes his defense is bad, but he doesn't strike me at all as someone that would have a problem fitting into a real offense.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by dalger

All things considered, there's a reason the Rockets could be willing to trade away their best scorer--and it's probably not just the lack of a capable center after Yao's latest injury.

I can think of about 35 million reasons a 10-15 team like Houston might want to unload Kevin Martin... Aside from adding a 7-foot center like Haywood, they're probably looking to dump salary so they can rebuild.

[grndmstr_c]

To me, the biggest question about Martin defensively would be whether he can function in the Dallas zone. In theory, his length and quickness (read, recovery ability) would be helpful, even if his slight frame hurts him in man coverage. Certainly, if Dallas acquired him and got rid of Haywood (their best man-to-man defender in the post), you'd think the Mavs would only become more dependent on their zone.

[LonghornDub]

The fact that this is being publicized now makes me 99.999% certain it will never happen. When's the last time the Mavs (hell, anyone) made a big trade that was publicized more than maybe a few days in advance?

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by CadBane

He'll take a slice of Kidd's, Terry's, Martin's, Marion's, and Butler's minutes.

Perhaps you've forgotten that RC often runs a Kidd-JJB-Terry lineup.

No reason we wouldn't still see that, or a new variation involving Kidd-JJB-Martin.

I guarantee you'd at times see JJB paired on the court with two of Jet, Kidd, and Martin.

We really haven't seen the three guard lineup all that much this year. There would obviously be times when Rick would continue to get creative, I feel pretty confident in saying those would be few and far between.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

To me, the biggest question about Martin defensively would be whether he can function in the Dallas zone. In theory, his length and quickness (read, recovery ability) would be helpful, even if his slight frame hurts him in man coverage. Certainly, if Dallas acquired him and got rid of Haywood (their best man-to-man defender in the post), you'd think the Mavs would only become more dependent on their zone.

Now THAT is a good point about defensive impact. I made the observation yesterday that even Haywood is playing with no energy, he still provides noticeably better man defense in the post than Chandler. That's where the defensive worry for me would come from.

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

and we've stockpiled athletic back-up centers so I'm not really worried there.

Mahinmi and Ajinca will average one foul per minute in the playoff against a great team because they have no standing whatsoever...

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

The fact that this is being publicized now makes me 99.999% certain it will never happen. When's the last time the Mavs (hell, anyone) made a big trade that was publicized more than maybe a few days in advance?

This hasn't really been publicized more than "the Rockets like Haywood" and "the Mavs have always liked Martin". Everything else has been pure conjecture, unless I missed something.

And I would say the Butler trade had a long lead up to it with many stories being written about the Mavs' interest in him.

[jthig32]

Also, if somehow a trade for Martin were to happen (and I think it's highly unlikely) I think the next logical move would be to see if you can move Butler's expiring contract for a backup big man. Preferably a big man that can also play PF as well as center, because if Marion's going to play big minutes at small forward you have to figure out what to do about backup PF.

There's a lot of ripple effects in a lot of these trade scenarios due to how intertwined the Mav rotation is.

[SeriousSummer]

I think a deal is possible, but I also think it might have to come as part of a bigger package. Either as a deal also including additional players from Dallas and Houston or as part of a three-way deal.

Haywood/Stevenson/Jones/Ajinca for Martin/Miller works. BTW: Haywood/Beaubois for Martin doesn't meet the salary cap rules.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by SeriousSummer

I think a deal is possible, but I also think it might have to come as part of a bigger package. Either as a deal also including additional players from Dallas and Houston or as part of a three-way deal.

Haywood/Stevenson/Jones/Ajinca for Martin/Miller works. BTW: Haywood/Beaubois for Martin doesn't meet the salary cap rules.

Just barely. You could throw in any one of Novak, Cardinal, Ajinca, maybe even Tim Thomas' contract, depending on what happened with that.

I actually looked up Miller's contract earlier. I wonder if they'd want to offload him or if they view him as an asset.

[41mvp]

Haywood/Stevenson/Jones/Ajinca for Martin/Miller No way!!!I want this trade but you know I like Stevenson.He is good defending player we need him in Dallas.
Haywood/Jones/Ajinca/Roddy for Martin/Miler This will be good deal for Houston and for us

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Just barely. You could throw in any one of Novak, Cardinal, Ajinca, maybe even Tim Thomas' contract, depending on what happened with that.

I actually looked up Miller's contract earlier. I wonder if they'd want to offload him or if they view him as an asset.

There is one way for the Mavericks to really absolve themselves of Haywood and not really mess with their center situation in a deal with Houston...it actually makes the Mavericks even more flexible.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

There is one way for the Mavericks to really absolve themselves of Haywood and not really mess with their center situation in a deal with Houston...it actually makes the Mavericks even more flexible.

Well..maybe. I'm not sure how useful centers that can't play defense are to the Mavs. Especially ones that seem to not rebound anymore.

[tsar]

There's no way I'd do this if it includes Roddy... you can see how high the Rockets fans are on him and would only considering the deal with him in it. They see how lazy and over paid Haywood is as well. This is just a pipe dream.

[rabbitproof]

On first glance, it looks like a killing of a trade but bouncing around some forums, it doesn't look so one-sided.

One, we are banking Tyson being healthy.
Two, Tyson playing more minutes and remaining as effective as he has been.

I am going back to neutral on Wood/Beaubois/misc. for Martin.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Well..maybe. I'm not sure how useful centers that can't play defense are to the Mavs. Especially ones that seem to not rebound anymore.

Money-wise, it works. It's thrusting Ian into the backup role, but it's an insurance policy.

Maybe a new team brings a new outlook...or, worst-case, it's a cruddy player, but one that isn't a malcontent. Chemistry Addition by Talent subtraction.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

I think some people around here underrate the value of centers. Most reasonable non-espn (Bill Simmons) people believe Haywood's contract is reasonable. I'd bet it's more than reasonable to Houston right now. There will almost always be a team that needs a pg or center. We're one of the best teams in the league and Houston isn't....that puts us in the driver's seat. Martin for Haywood/Stevenson is decent, but I'd tap the breaks a bit before throwing in Roddy.

[rabbitproof]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=37gcjug

What do you guys think? We would be shooting all our trade wads.. if possible, you could try to plug in Dojo/1st for Roddy?

Kidd/JET
Martin/Lee
Battier/Marion
Dirk/Marion
Chandler/Miller