Racism and locked thread

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

Sad or Expected?

Uhhh probably both lol. I can't say that I didn't expect. It shouldn't be sad though if I expected but I don't know I just didn't think we'd have to sink to such extreme lows to keep a minority out of office. Earlier in the race I expected a lot more hatred and we've seen it. But something like not referring to the man by his own name but actually as a terrorists name? A man that has given this country so much grief and heartache? I'd expect more but i'm not sure why I should.

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Uhhh probably both lol. I can't say that I didn't expect. It shouldn't be sad though if I expected but I don't know I just didn't think we'd have to sink to such extreme lows to keep a minority out of office. Earlier in the race I expected a lot more hatred and we've seen it. But something like not referring to the man by his own name but actually as a terrorists name? A man that has given this country so much grief and heartache? I'd expect more but i'm not sure why I should.

It is sad to say, but this is just the start of how this will play out. I can say, that I am proud that the media has talked about this lately, because I have already seen this coming, and I expect even more when the polls close on Election Day with the results. As I said before, "Osama" and "Muslim" is the new code word. Then to call that as an error is quite silly. The "S" and "B" are not even close on any keyboard, and I am pretty sure that people all over the country knows the candidates names, and especially Obama's full name.

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

I'm interested in hearing you expound on this. May I assume safely that you believe everything taught in *your* religion is true?

Not at all. I believe that most religions have a part correct, but none of them have it all.

I was brought up in a Baptist church, but they miss some. Drinking for instance -- they don't believe in any alcohol, I believe that Jesus turned water into wine (alcohol). If Jesus was sinless like I believe, then he couldn't have made something to cause others to sin. He also drank it at the last supper.

IMO, Baptist miss this here, although I understand where they are coming from. Drinking alcohol is not a sin, drinking to excess is though.

Seventh Day Adventist have the Saturday as the sabbath correct, IMO.

Jews have the correct feasts. ETC.

So no, I don't think my religion is correct, since I don't really have a definitive religion.

I am a member at a Baptist church, but I wouldn't call myself a true Baptist.

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

Not at all. I believe that most religions have a part correct, but none of them have it all.

I was brought up in a Baptist church, but they miss some. Drinking for instance -- they don't believe in any alcohol, I believe that Jesus turned water into wine (alcohol). If Jesus was sinless like I believe, then he couldn't have made something to cause others to sin. He also drank it at the last supper.

IMO, Baptist miss this here, although I understand where they are coming from. Drinking alcohol is not a sin, drinking to excess is though.

Seventh Day Adventist have the Saturday as the sabbath correct, IMO.

Jews have the correct feasts. ETC.

So no, I don't think my religion is correct, since I don't really have a definitive religion.

I am a member at a Baptist church, but I wouldn't call myself a true Baptist.

So, why stay Baptist, since you grew up Baptist and now is still Baptist, but claim they only have it part right?

But, you still did not answer Chum or my rebuttal. All I can hear now is that you think that most religions are right, claim to be Baptist and claim to not have a definitive religion. I guess you just go to church for fun? Cause, it sounds like you would question everything your pastor says. Seems kinda odd to me. IMO.

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

Not at all. I believe that most religions have a part correct, but none of them have it all.

I was brought up in a Baptist church, but they miss some. Drinking for instance -- they don't believe in any alcohol, I believe that Jesus turned water into wine (alcohol). If Jesus was sinless like I believe, then he couldn't have made something to cause others to sin. He also drank it at the last supper.

IMO, Baptist miss this here, although I understand where they are coming from. Drinking alcohol is not a sin, drinking to excess is though.

Seventh Day Adventist have the Saturday as the sabbath correct, IMO.

Jews have the correct feasts. ETC.

So no, I don't think my religion is correct, since I don't really have a definitive religion.

I am a member at a Baptist church, but I wouldn't call myself a true Baptist.

That's kinda hard to pin down, SpottedDog. You speak a lot about "Truth"--and I certainly respect your obviously firmly held beliefs. But you seem to suggest that this Truth can only be found on your own, not through one religion or the other.

And that leads me to wonder...if Truth is so readily available, why hasn't one religion found it, after all this time?

[rabbitproof]

This is most relevant to the My Hussein thread but I'm hoping that falls off the face of the Earth.

---

And for the second time in three days, a speaker at a Republican rally invoked Obama's middle name, Hussein, in an apparent attempt to feed lingering fears about the Democrat's background.

Lehigh County Republican Chairman Bill Platt twice used Obama's middle name before McCain and Palin arrived at the campaign stop in the town of Bethlehem. The campaign quickly issued a statement saying it did not condone "this inappropriate rhetoric."

McCain has called the use of Obama's middle name both improper and inappropriate and once apologized after a supporter warming up a rally used it. Hussein is a common name in Muslim cultures and its use in the campaign is seen as an effort to link Obama to radical Islam even though he is a Christian. Obama's father was a Muslim from Kenya.

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10...ldnt-say-face/

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

So, why stay Baptist, since you grew up Baptist and now is still Baptist, but claim they only have it part right?

But, you still did not answer Chum or my rebuttal. All I can hear now is that you think that most religions are right, claim to be Baptist and claim to not have a definitive religion. I guess you just go to church for fun? Cause, it sounds like you would question everything your pastor says. Seems kinda odd to me. IMO.

You tell me the answers here. Yes, I question the pastor, and every other man. So yes, I guess I am kind of odd. I take the small path, not the wide one.

Yes, I answered your post several times, but decided to delete my answer because I don't mean to make this personal. I think I'll leave it that way instead of writing a book that shows everything you have said is not backed up in scripture, and that you are just taking certain things you can't find and taking leaps to say it is true. The answers you have given on Blasphemy and suicide as fact are not backed up by any verse you have listed. You make claims then contradict yourself. I think it is much better if I try and stay a little more civilized and stick to the things I can prove, or can at least say this is my opinion and why it is my opinion. You say you have proven me wrong, yet you haven't proven anything. You say you have proven it by backing it up with verses, but yet the verses have nothing to do with what we were talking about. You say --- NO you are incorrect -- we have the same definition of blasphemy -- then follow that with a statement that you and I disagree on what blasphemy is. It can't be the same and different. You contradict yourself -- then claim victory................ THIS IS EXACTLY why I claim that Religion and Politics are intertwined. They do exactly this same thing in Politics.

Originally Posted by Chumdawg

That's kinda hard to pin down, SpottedDog. You speak a lot about "Truth"--and I certainly respect your obviously firmly held beliefs. But you seem to suggest that this Truth can only be found on your own, not through one religion or the other.

And that leads me to wonder...if Truth is so readily available, why hasn't one religion found it, after all this time?

Who is to say that individuals haven't found it throughout the years, but one religion hasn't?

I don't think any one religion has it because each religion says : You need to ???????
Jesus said : It is done.

Individuals can open up a true walk with Jesus, and die to self and let him control. They do not need to be "unreal" or put on any act when alone or only with him.
Groups tend to try and not look silly to others, garnish power, or otherwise try to be self serving. Groups tend to try and lead the way -- individuals usually will follow (if they can find the correct Shepard).

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

You tell me the answers here. Yes, I question the pastor, and every other man. So yes, I guess I am kind of odd. I take the small path, not the wide one.

Yes, I answered your post several times, but decided to delete my answer because I don't mean to make this personal. I think I'll leave it that way instead of writing a book that shows everything you have said is not backed up in scripture, and that you are just taking certain things you can't find and taking leaps to say it is true. The answers you have given on Blasphemy and suicide as fact are not backed up by any verse you have listed. You make claims then contradict yourself. I think it is much better if I try and stay a little more civilized and stick to the things I can prove, or can at least say this is my opinion and why it is my opinion. You say you have proven me wrong, yet you haven't proven anything. You say you have proven it by backing it up with verses, but yet the verses have nothing to do with what we were talking about. You say --- NO you are incorrect -- we have the same definition of blasphemy -- then follow that with a statement that you and I disagree on what blasphemy is. It can't be the same and different. You contradict yourself -- then claim victory................ THIS IS EXACTLY why I claim that Religion and Politics are intertwined. They do exactly this same thing in Politics.




Who is to say that individuals haven't found it throughout the years, but one religion hasn't?

I don't think any one religion has it because each religion says : You need to ???????
Jesus said : It is done.

Individuals can open up a true walk with Jesus, and die to self and let him control. They do not need to be "unreal" or put on any act when alone or only with him.
Groups tend to try and not look silly to others, garnish power, or otherwise try to be self serving. Groups tend to try and lead the way -- individuals usually will follow (if they can find the correct Shepard).

Now, I see. The answers come from you and what you feel you have learned on your own. I get it now. You are self taught and that is the correct path to God. I see it now. Would you just so happen to be from the East? I know there is a verse about someone coming from the East talking about religion and spreading false words of God. I guess you dont know about that verse as well? Let me back up a bit, I will take all my posts back that said I proved you wrong or I was right. I will just say that I backed up my opinion with the word of God that I understand it. How about that? For the record, one more time. We both have the same definition of blasphemy, the difference is that I believe that a person can get back in God's good grace by asking for forgiveness and being baptized, your definition is that once they blasphemy that it is, and there is no forgiveness from there. I dont agree, I agree with (2 Corinthians 5:17) I truly believe that killing yourself is blasphemy against God, and you have turned your back on him and cant come back from it by being born again. Now, this gets a little tricky (IMO) because I believe you only have to be born again once, BUT (BUT) when you commit blasphemy against God, which is a total rejection of God and can NOT repent and be born again, then you commit in my eyes (IMO) the blasphemy that is "Unforgiveable' which is killing yourself on purpose. This is also why I believe 2 Corinthians 5:17 backs up my belief. Then I cross reference that with John 3:3. IMO...

My Reference: New American Standard Bible

2 Corinthians 5:17 -Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.

John 3:3 -Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

Now, I see. The answers come from you and what you feel you have learned on your own. I get it now. You are self taught and that is the correct path to God. I see it now. Would you just so happen to be from the East? I know there is a verse about someone coming from the East talking about religion and spreading false words of God. I guess you dont know about that verse as well? Let me back up a bit, I will take all my posts back that said I proved you wrong or I was right. I will just say that I backed up my opinion with the word of God that I understand it. How about that? For the record, one more time. We both have the same definition of blasphemy, the difference is that I believe that a person can get back in God's good grace by asking for forgiveness and being baptized, your definition is that once they blasphemy that it is, and there is no forgiveness from there. I dont agree, I agree with (2 Corinthians 5:17) I truly believe that killing yourself is blasphemy against God, and you have turned your back on him and cant come back from it by being born again. Now, this gets a little tricky (IMO) because I believe you only have to be born again once, BUT (BUT) when you commit blasphemy against God, which is a total rejection of God and can NOT repent and be born again, then you commit in my eyes (IMO) the blasphemy that is "Unforgiveable' which is killing yourself on purpose. This is also why I believe 2 Corinthians 5:17 backs up my belief. Then I cross reference that with John 3:3. IMO...

My Reference: New American Standard Bible

2 Corinthians 5:17 -Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.

John 3:3 -Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."

No I am not from the East. No I don't want to spread anything false.

Thank you for putting your quotes and version of the Bible in the thread for me to read, so I do not have to go back and look up.

I now understand much better what you are saying. I still don't agree with blasphemy as you call it. I also understand now the logic you use to say that the killing of oneself is blasphemy to God, and I won't disregard it because you may be correct. I do not feel like I know everything and can interpret everything correctly, but I am trying to gain wisdom and knowledge by immersing myself in the word.

Now I'll defend my reason for lots of study with verses only.
American Standard Bible 1901

Mat 13:18 Hear then ye the parable of the sower.
Mat 13:19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the evil one, and snatcheth away that which hath been sown in his heart. This is he that was sown by the way side.
Mat 13:20 And he that was sown upon the rocky places, this is he that heareth the word, and straightway with joy receiveth it;
Mat 13:21 yet hath he not root in himself, but endureth for a while; and when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, straightway he stumbleth.
Mat 13:22 And he that was sown among the thorns, this is he that heareth the word; and the care of the world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
Mat 13:23 And he that was sown upon the good ground, this is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; who verily beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.


Also:
Isa 56:8 The Lord Jehovah, who gathereth the outcasts of Israel, saith, Yet will I gather others to him, besides his own that are gathered.
Isa 56:9 All ye beasts of the field, come to devour, yea, all ye beasts in the forest.
Isa 56:10 His watchmen are blind, they are all without knowledge; they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; dreaming, lying down, loving to slumber.
Isa 56:11 Yea, the dogs are greedy, they can never have enough; and these are shepherds that cannot understand: they have all turned to their own way, each one to his gain, from every quarter.
Isa 56:12 Come ye, say they, I will fetch wine, and we will fill ourselves with strong drink; and to-morrow shall be as this day, a day great beyond measure.

And:
Jer 23:1 Woe unto the shepherds that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith Jehovah.
Jer 23:2 Therefore thus saith Jehovah, the God of Israel, against the shepherds that feed my people: Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them; behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith Jehovah.
Jer 23:3 And I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all the countries whither I have driven them, and will bring them again to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and multiply.

And:
Jer 25:31 A noise shall come even to the end of the earth; for Jehovah hath a controversy with the nations; he will enter into judgment with all flesh: as for the wicked, he will give them to the sword, saith Jehovah.
Jer 25:32 Thus saith Jehovah of hosts, Behold, evil shall go forth from nation to nation, and a great tempest shall be raised up from the uttermost parts of the earth.
Jer 25:33 And the slain of Jehovah shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung upon the face of the ground.
Jer 25:34 Wail, ye shepherds, and cry; and wallow in ashes, ye principal of the flock; for the days of your slaughter and of your dispersions are fully come, and ye shall fall like a goodly vessel.
Jer 25:35 And the shepherds shall have no way to flee, nor the principal of the flock to escape.
Jer 25:36 A voice of the cry of the shepherds, and the wailing of the principal of the flock! for Jehovah layeth waste their pasture.
Jer 25:37 And the peaceable folds are brought to silence because of the fierce anger of Jehovah.
Jer 25:38 He hath left his covert, as the lion; for their land is become an astonishment because of the fierceness of the oppressing sword, and because of his fierce anger.

And:
Jer 50:6 My people have been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray; they have turned them away on the mountains; they have gone from mountain to hill; they have forgotten their resting-place.
Jer 50:7 All that found them have devoured them; and their adversaries said, We are not guilty, because they have sinned against Jehovah, the habitation of righteousness, even Jehovah, the hope of their fathers.

And:
Eze 34:7 Therefore, ye shepherds, hear the word of Jehovah:
Eze 34:8 As I live, saith the Lord Jehovah, surely forasmuch as my sheep became a prey, and my sheep became food to all the beasts of the field, because there was no shepherd, neither did my shepherds search for my sheep, but the shepherds fed themselves, and fed not my sheep;
Eze 34:9 therefore, ye shepherds, hear the word of Jehovah:
Eze 34:10 Thus saith the Lord Jehovah: Behold, I am against the shepherds; and I will require my sheep at their hand, and cause them to cease from feeding the sheep; neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more; and I will deliver my sheep from their mouth, that they may not be food for them.
Eze 34:11 For thus saith the Lord Jehovah: Behold, I myself, even I, will search for my sheep, and will seek them out.
Eze 34:12 As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered abroad, so will I seek out my sheep; and I will deliver them out of all places whither they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day.

And:
Isa 43:26 Put me in remembrance; let us plead together: set thou forth thy cause, that thou mayest be justified.
Isa 43:27 Thy first father sinned, and thy teachers have transgressed against me.
Isa 43:28 Therefore I will profane the princes of the sanctuary; and I will make Jacob a curse, and Israel a reviling.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

These verses all show that listening to teachers and shepherds is quite questionable at best, and can be the wrong thing to do.

There are also several other verses about shepherds and teachers leading the flock astray, and working for money and power. Jesus came and said that he is the Great Shepherd.

Since Jesus is the great shepherd, then I think I should follow him, instead of following the teachings of man. This is why I study and pray daily, and try to spend time with my relationship with him. It isn't that I want to "deny" what others have taught -- I just don't trust man -- because he is very fallible. So my choice is to follow Jesus and read/study the Bible myself. Allow him to fill me with knowledge, and not just spit back stuff I have been told from interpretations of a man long ago. This doesn't mean that I don't gather together with other believers in Jesus though, because I do.

Does this make it tough sometimes, yes. Do I still fall into that trap of " state this as fact" then can't back it up with the Word -- unfortunately yes. I am trying to get better daily though.

------------------------------------------------------------------

With that said, I thank you for all the discussion. I feel like what we have stated, etc has been productive. I also feel like it can get unproductive and personal very quickly though, so I think I am going to slow down with my responses in this thread, and do more thinking and praying before answering.

[DirkFTW]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

I truly believe that killing yourself is blasphemy against God, and you have turned your back on him and cant come back from it by being born again.

Sorry, I'm having trouble following everything. Can you elaborate a little bit more on how suicide is turning your back on God?

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

No I am not from the East. No I don't want to spread anything false.

Thank you for putting your quotes and version of the Bible in the thread for me to read, so I do not have to go back and look up.

I now understand much better what you are saying. I still don't agree with blasphemy as you call it. I also understand now the logic you use to say that the killing of oneself is blasphemy to God, and I won't disregard it because you may be correct. I do not feel like I know everything and can interpret everything correctly, but I am trying to gain wisdom and knowledge by immersing myself in the word.

Now I'll defend my reason for lots of study with verses only.
American Standard Bible 1901



----------------------------------------------------------------------

These verses all show that listening to teachers and shepherds is quite questionable at best, and can be the wrong thing to do.

There are also several other verses about shepherds and teachers leading the flock astray, and working for money and power. Jesus came and said that he is the Great Shepherd.

Since Jesus is the great shepherd, then I think I should follow him, instead of following the teachings of man. This is why I study and pray daily, and try to spend time with my relationship with him. It isn't that I want to "deny" what others have taught -- I just don't trust man -- because he is very fallible. So my choice is to follow Jesus and read/study the Bible myself. Allow him to fill me with knowledge, and not just spit back stuff I have been told from interpretations of a man long ago. This doesn't mean that I don't gather together with other believers in Jesus though, because I do.

Does this make it tough sometimes, yes. Do I still fall into that trap of " state this as fact" then can't back it up with the Word -- unfortunately yes. I am trying to get better daily though.

------------------------------------------------------------------

With that said, I thank you for all the discussion. I feel like what we have stated, etc has been productive. I also feel like it can get unproductive and personal very quickly though, so I think I am going to slow down with my responses in this thread, and do more thinking and praying before answering.

I too feel our debate helps us alot. I dont take it personal here when talking the bible, because we are read it and interpret it differently at times. I agree that man is full of sin, but we have to remember that Jesus is not in man's form, so he sends us word through people like our pastors. Even a bum on the street can deliver a message from Jesus, but the fact that Jesus said we must come together and congregation to worship, tells me that our pastors have to be given some respect for the word. If the word is wrong, then I pray that it will come out about pastors leading the flock down the wrong path. I believe for the most part, the pastors are bringing the word of God to us. I stand by my pastor front and circle and I do believe he has been put here to spread the gospel to us. I do agree on having to learn yourself as well. Just remember to pray b4 you read the bible and ask for his grace to understand what you are reading. But, please remember, Jesus is not here in mans form now, so right now we have our leaders of the church to bring the word of God to God's people.

[DirkFTW]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

I truly believe that killing yourself is blasphemy against God, and you have turned your back on him and cant come back from it by being born again. Now, this gets a little tricky (IMO) because I believe you only have to be born again once, BUT (BUT) when you commit blasphemy against God, which is a total rejection of God and can NOT repent and be born again, then you commit in my eyes (IMO) the blasphemy that is "Unforgiveable' which is killing yourself on purpose.

I'm sorry, I'm having trouble following this point. Can you please elaborate on how suicide is turning your back on God and/or totally rejecting God?

[ribosoma]

Polarizing oneself based upon reworked, redacted, revised and literalized mythologies whose prime goal is social control... PRICELESS.